Chapter Tactics #63: Our Thoughts on the 40k Meta, Post-FAQ Release

Chapter Tactics is a 40k podcast which focuses on promoting better tactical play and situational awareness across all variations of the game. The title explains it all. Peteypab, Geoff, and Abusepuppy give their thoughts on the new 40k FAQ, and how it will effect there tournament prep in the future.

Show Notes:

  • Click here for a link for information on downloading best coast pairings app where you can find lists for most of the events I mentioned.
  • Chapter Tactics is back! With Weekly episodes and a lot of tactical insight, this is your place for all things 40k in 8th edition.
  • Check out the last episode of Chapter Tactics here. Or, click here for a link to a full archive of all of my episodes.
  • Want more tactical information about the new edition? Check out our 8th Edition article archive to help get a leg up on the competition!
  • Commercial music by Music by: www.bensound.com
  • Intro by: Justin Mahar

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Need help with a list idea? Got a rules question? Want to talk tactics? Then email me at…

frontlinegamingpeteypab@gmail.com 

Please do not send an army list in a format such as Army Builder, send them in an easy to read, typed format. Thanks!

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About Petey Pab

Aspiring 40k analyst, tournament reporter and Ultramarines enthusiast, Petey Pab only seeks to gather more knowledge about the game of 40k and share it with as many people as he can in order to unite both hobbyists and gamers. We are, after all, two sides of the same coin.

37 Responses to “Chapter Tactics #63: Our Thoughts on the 40k Meta, Post-FAQ Release”

  1. mike April 23, 2018 1:04 am #

    I was getting tired of the armchair generals online saying that the reserves change wouldn’t do anything because “you weren’t dropping on turn 1 anyway.”

    I knew if anyone would understand, it would be top players like Geoff, that realize that the mere presence of the option has an effect on the opponent, even if you don’t take the option in that game.

    On another topic, the PL restriction -in matched play- is dumb. Many units have had their points changed since their PL was issued, and many are charged excessive PL for the fact that they COULD take like a thunder hammer on every guy or some other silly options that no one would ever take in matched play.

    As Pablo said, you can do some silly list building moves to mitigate this, which feels incredibly cheesy. “Yeah all my troops here are 6 man so their power level is artificially inflated just so I can deep strike 3/4 of my army.”

    They should’ve used points if points is what your army is built on. Did they really think we couldn’t just add up our deep strikers and check if they totaled over 1000 points or not out of 2k? People need to stop trying to jam the square PL peg in the round matched play hole.

    • mike April 23, 2018 1:53 am #

      And also yes. The unchargable units “clarification” is not a game changer…most of the time…but when it comes up, there WILL be salt and anger from one of the two players, if not both. There will be arguments over what can and can’t fit, how to handle sticking out arms and other stuff in the way, how much of the base needs to be over floor and if the base can be in any other orientation other than flat to the floor etc etc.

      It just seems like a rule that half the players think you’re a jerk for following and half think you’re a jerk for not following is something that should be fixed. If the rule is most likely going to start a mid-game argument, it’s time to pull it back to the drawing board.

      Some of the more realistic situations that people don’t really bring up are characters up on some of those tiny pieces of floor, usually near the top. Bonus points if they don’t need to move to do useful things like a vindicaire assassin, a psyker, or a buffer with units on the larger floor below. Not only do they enjoy immunity to assault, but being a character, they’re immune to shooting until all that other junk is dead. On top of both of those, they’re still most likely infantry in a ruin, and get cover as well, just in case you do bring down enough stuff to target them.

      If they want to keep the rule how it was just faq’d, they need to add destroying the terrain piece as a mechanic. But if they just wanted to stay simple and keep salty arguments from occurring, well, I would’ve gone with the old ITC If-you-get-the-distance-you-can-get-there rule, and added a design note to say “It’s not our intent to have units be unreachable just by placement on terrain. If you got up there, they can too. Just imagine that the enemy super soldier is capable of attacking while holding onto the wall or swinging at your feet.”

      • Magnus April 25, 2018 5:09 am #

        Way me and my group has always played “wobbly model” is like this:
        Can you place an empty base of the same size where you want to stand? Does the base fall off?
        If the base falls off then you can’t use “wobbly model”, because the rule always said it was there to avoid models falling over, not to be able to stand where it’s not possible to stand.

        I think there is some issues with the current ruins rules though.

    • Rob Butcher April 23, 2018 3:13 am #

      On the GW Warhammer Tv broadcast that outlined the changes, the PL and points were used interchangeably. As this is a BETA rule that only FLG has announced as taking on board then why not test it out both ways. Except in extreme cases (Big Chicken is now 1500 points and 37 PL) things work out at roughly 50%; which is much better than 50% of the models balancing seven Flyrants.

      • Rob Butcher April 23, 2018 3:15 am #

        Terrain …. some tournaments are using 20 years old GW designed stuff with thin ledges. Others are using real buildings with real roofs, not ruins. It’s about time terrain caught up with the rules meta. 3rd edition ruins are not suitable anymore.

  2. Ujayim April 23, 2018 6:51 am #

    I enjoy how “unabridged” you guys are during these.

    Feels very organic, and not like marketing.

    Keep it up!

  3. SIX April 23, 2018 7:24 am #

    It is worth listening the Chapter Tactics, After listening the podcast I have learn a lot about tactical play and situational awareness across all variations of the game.
    Thank you for sharing it.

  4. Panda Saurus Rex April 23, 2018 8:02 am #

    Geoff “The Voice of Reason” Robinson here lol, love it. Up front I will say that my main army and first love is BA. I have played a couple of games with the beta rule (the PL thing didn’t really effect the way I played my main list) and what I have found so far is that it takes options away from me while holding my opponent’s hand.

    What I mean by this is: in games where I get 2nd turn and lost some of my heavy hitters that start on the board I no longer have the ability to react to threats as needed. I no longer have the ability to take advantage of my opponent’s mistakes and exploit holes that are left open. I recently played against Dark Eldar where the guy completely abandoned his back line to bum rush my army. Normally in that situation I’d land behind him but in this instance I couldn’t, and therefore couldn’t get off the back foot all game.

    I’m trying to tweak going forward and find what works and what doesn’t but I was originally trying to stick to pure BA which I no longer think works.

    • Ujayim April 23, 2018 8:30 am #

      My thing with the PL difference is that it makes no sense. I don’t know a single human being who uses PL, let alone knows what portion of their army is what. I just wish they had said points.

      • abusepuppy April 23, 2018 7:20 pm #

        The ITC actually used Power Ratings for the kill points missions for a significant amount of time, and similar solutions are fairly common.

    • Kartr April 23, 2018 5:37 pm #

      ” I was originally trying to stick to pure BA which I no longer think works.”

      Welcome to the Adeptus Astartes!

      • Anony April 26, 2018 8:22 pm #

        Not if he wants to win games lol, he’ll be joing up with the guard or custodes most likely.

  5. Apocalypse448 April 23, 2018 8:28 am #

    I am not seeing download the podcast. Can you show me where to download it?

  6. Amof April 23, 2018 10:57 am #

    I want to second the organic feeling of the cast. Much better than the 45min commercials on some other casts. Keep up the good work.

    • AngryPanda April 24, 2018 12:55 am #

      It is kind of amazing how many got turned into this once GW reached out. And think they had this power along but couldnt be assed to use it.

  7. Don Tomaso April 23, 2018 11:24 am #

    “On another topic, the PL restriction -in matched play- is dumb. Many units have had their points changed since their PL was issued, and many are charged excessive PL for the fact that they COULD take like a thunder hammer on every guy or some other silly options that no one would ever take in matched play.”

    This!

    But ask abusedpuppy, he will tell you that you see conspiracies and just need to L2P..and then run away when cornered.

    • Zweischneid April 23, 2018 11:50 am #

      And?

      PL is less precise than points, sure, but it is more precise than .. say .. No. of units or No. of Detachments or any number of other measures that are also used in a Matched Play format alongside points.

      • Mike April 23, 2018 3:56 pm #

        And why not just use points? Why intentionally go for a less accurate method that makes for weird loopholes like taking 6man units solely to cheat the system?

        We already added up 2000 points once making the list. It isn’t difficult to go through the deep strikers and make sure that isn’t above 1000.

        • abusepuppy April 23, 2018 7:32 pm #

          Because it actually _is_ more difficult. Adding larger numbers _does_ result in more math errors on the players’ parts- anyone who played games that used the old Victory Points (i.e. “number of points from the army that were killed/wounded”) back in the day can confirm this pretty easily. It is much simpler to add 24 + 18 + 3 + 5 + 5 than it is to add 197 + 246 + 88 + 111 + 117 + 117.

          Power Rating is by no means an ideal or even particularly accurate measure of units’ abilities, but it is a pretty close approximation to points cost (and thus to percentage of “actual” value in an army) while being noticably simpler to deal with. I don’t think it’s a good enough measure to use in army construction (for many of the reasons already mentioned), but it’s fine as a placeholder value.

    • abusepuppy April 23, 2018 7:26 pm #

      Your reply is so obtuse, I don’t even know what kind of strawman argument you think I’m making in it.

      • Laurence April 25, 2018 9:00 am #

        Don gets mad. Really mad. And really easily. You’re best off ignoring him buddy

  8. Zweischneid April 23, 2018 11:38 am #

    Custodes already have a Stratagem to Deepstrike 3″ in from the enemy.

    • Ujayim April 23, 2018 11:42 am #

      And you can use it at the great timing of turn 3!

      • Zweischneid April 23, 2018 11:52 am #

        If turn 3 is seen less important than other turns, there might be more adjustments needed to the game until all turns are roughly equally important to the overall flow of the game, or, if in doubt, they grow more important towards the end of the game.

        • Ujayim April 23, 2018 12:32 pm #

          It’s undeniably important when you’re using an army like Custodes where you’re footslogging a Terminator up the board, or deep striking them on turn two, and then activating an ability on turn 3 when you’ve kept a quarter of your army in reserves when you have less than 5-6 units total for your opponent to select as shooting targets.

          It’s just not too good, fam.

          • Ty April 24, 2018 4:57 am
            #

            It’s pretty easy to use it on turn two.

          • Ujayim April 24, 2018 7:04 am
            #

            It’s absolutely “easy to use” on turn two, but is it better?

            You would have to have the bearer on the table turn one, so let’s assume they’re moving and advancing full distance, so 24″ best case scenario. Is that, at that point, worth doing? With Maximum range, sure. With poor rolls, or just average, getting you only 18″ from deployment, you might as well just normal deepstrike.

            The answer could be probably, and I can see that. I would just, personally, rather they be on the table turn 1 and have a turn of shooting.

        • Anony April 26, 2018 8:26 pm #

          Turn 1 will always be the most important turn of the majority 40k games simply due to how shooting works.

          In order of priority It’s generally 1,2,Last turn,Second to last turn,3,4.

  9. Melete April 23, 2018 3:53 pm #

    Geoff is a false tyrant! The Craftworlds codex came out in October 2017, but the Adeptus Mechanicus codex came out in September 2017.

    • abusepuppy April 23, 2018 7:33 pm #

      DO YOU HEAR THE PEOPLE SING
      SINGING A SONG OF ANGRY MEN
      IT IS THE MUSIC OF A PEOPLE
      WHO WILL NOT BE SLAVES AGAIN!

  10. GeekmasterK April 24, 2018 7:01 am #

    The most important thing to remember is this: most of this FAQ is still a beta, and GW is listening. If there’s a ruling in here that seems problematic to you, follow this procedure:

    1. Try it in practice first. This is important, because you will have a better idea of how it actually works in practice, rather than just on paper. It may either validate what you thought, or it may not actually be as bad as you thought it was.

    2. After trying it, if it still seems like the ruling is doing more harm than good, let GW know. Their Facebook pages are where they see most of the feedback. The important thing, and I can’t stress this enough, is BE RESPECTFUL! Don’t chew them out for it, don’t resort to profanity, and make sure your comment is more than just something like, “This ruling is terrible.” Explain what your concern is, and why you think it will hurt the game overall. Think of the overall health of the game when explaining your concern, not just your faction or list. GW is more likely to pay attention to you if this is the approach you take.

    Of course, none of this guarantees anything, per se, but GW is taking feedback into consideration. Remember when Chapter Approved had the tweak to Smite to make it less exploitable, but it hurt Grey Knights and Thousand Sons? They heard the concerns about that, and now this FAQ fixes it for units with the Brotherhood of Psykers/Sorcerers keyword. Also remember, there is another FAQ coming this year. Now is the time if you have a concern that needs addressing.

  11. Agent X April 24, 2018 10:53 am #

    The Callidus assassin is a unit that fits in a few of the topics you hit

    I started using one after Geoff talked about his assassin toolkit

    As a SW player with no stratagems it helped somewhat level the field by hindering my opponent’s combos on turn 1

    It has an exception to the 9″ deep strike

    Unfortunately, the Callidus post FAQ has far less value after the CP inflation for brigades/battalions plus change to deep strike combos etc.

  12. Alpharius Walks April 25, 2018 4:30 am #

    Regarding 3 detachments = 3 codices, I am sure a few creative players will be leverage things like to continue running the best things from all of the books. Just with how faction keywords work I assume that will mostly be a Chaos thing.

    Out of curiosity, how did those dual lands appreciate in value compared to the 40k you acquired?

  13. Laurence April 25, 2018 9:02 am #

    Lol Chapter Tactics wouldn’t be Chapter Tactics without Pablo saying something silly and the other 3 hosts shutting him down. Don’t ever change man!

  14. Brett Perkins April 25, 2018 10:21 am #

    Yea, $#%@ing Brett Perkins. lol, appreciate the shout out guys. Sadly I have succumb to a whole new job. Miss everyone and being able to compete. So far LVO is the only event i was able to attend this year. Literally flew from LVO back to Hawaii and then immediately back to Louisiana for a month long exercise. lol, maybe when all the books are finally released I can catch up on all the lore and the meta enough to compete again. Hope some of you can make it out to the Throne of War GT which I believe is only 20 dollars to enter now that we had some sponsors support the event.

    v/r

    Brett

  15. Lang Nelson April 25, 2018 12:28 pm #

    Played in the Narrative. Listens to Chapter Tactics. Great show guys. Really liking the FAQ so far.

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