Chapter Tactics #62: Taking Competitive 40k Tournaments to the Next Level

Chapter Tactics is a 40k podcast which focuses on promoting better tactical play and situational awareness across all variations of the game. Today Peteypab discusses the state and future of competitive 40k with LVO head judge Salty John, and Val Heffelfinger gets some magical advice from the list doctor. Dr. Brown.

Show Notes:

  • Need to set an appointment with the List doctor? Visit Nick Nanavati’s website and add a little brown into your life.
  • Check out SaltyJohn’s article and get feed your 40k fix by heading on over to TFG Radio’s website.
  • Click here for a link for information on downloading best coast pairings app where you can find lists for most of the events I mentioned.
  • Chapter Tactics is back! With Weekly episodes and a lot of tactical insight, this is your place for all things 40k in 8th edition.
  • Check out the last episode of Chapter Tactics here. Or, click here for a link to a full archive of all of my episodes.
  • Want more tactical information about the new edition? Check out our 8th Edition article archive to help get a leg up on the competition!
  • Commercial music by Music by: www.bensound.com
  • Intro by: Justin Mahar

got a list

Need help with a list idea? Got a rules question? Want to talk tactics? Then email me at…

frontlinegamingpeteypab@gmail.com 

Please do not send an army list in a format such as Army Builder, send them in an easy to read, typed format. Thanks!

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About Petey Pab

Aspiring 40k analyst, tournament reporter and Ultramarines enthusiast, Petey Pab only seeks to gather more knowledge about the game of 40k and share it with as many people as he can in order to unite both hobbyists and gamers. We are, after all, two sides of the same coin.

26 Responses to “Chapter Tactics #62: Taking Competitive 40k Tournaments to the Next Level”

  1. Will Sparrow April 16, 2018 6:40 am #

    Wow Pablo what a great idea, get all your Patreon fans to buy you an army and pay for all the work too! This sounds like a lot of fun!heuheuheu. In all seriousness, why don’t you do it yourself and show everyone what a grind it is and how much hard work and dedication it takes. Anyone can pay to get someone else to do the work. What’s the point?

    • Ujayim April 16, 2018 7:10 am #

      Some people don’t like painting. Some people aren’t good at painting.

      Hell, my buddy and I are quite GOOD at painting, and we paint eachother models back and forth almost every month. Can I not use the hobby track now because some of my characters are gifted from my buddy, because we paint eachothers things?

      Happy medium, my dude.

      • Will Sparrow April 16, 2018 8:57 am #

        I agree with you, also people don’t have the time it takes. I just don’t see how doing this for his podcast is going to be interesting or relevant. If I want to see a beautifully painted army I can google images or watch someone like Kenny Boucher put in the hard work, paint it, break down the whole process, and teach it. I really like frontline gaming and he asked for feedback. In the end, it’s his money he can do whatever he wants with it. 😉 I personally would find it more interesting if he did it himself(even if he thinks he’s bad at painting).

        • Petey Pab
          Petey Pab April 16, 2018 10:19 am #

          Thanks for the feedback though, I think it’s very important to see if this is even a thing people would be interested in seeing.

          • Rob April 17, 2018 8:15 am
            #

            The only way I’d even consider supporting something like this is if you were going to raffle the army off at LVO or at the end of the season and donate 100% of the proceeds to charity.

            I’ve spent a long time in the automotive community too, and I think your analogy is miles off.

          • Petey Pab
            Petey Pab April 18, 2018 9:59 am
            #

            “Automotive Community” means nothing. Each type of car has it’s own internal communities, and competitions. I explained the ITC Hobby Track to the Car Club we are in, and every single old, blue collar, car owner, understood exactly what I was talking about, and thought it was crazy that armies only won “Best Painted” if the owner painted, and worked on it themselves. These are the kind of guys who would normally never immerse themselves in our kind of game too.

            You clearly missed the point of the analogy as well. There are so many similarities between true Warhammer hobby competitions, and Low Rider Car shows. It’s silly.

    • Petey Pab
      Petey Pab April 16, 2018 10:17 am #

      I thikn you completely missed the point of the Lowrider Analogy. Also yeah, I could certainly fund it myself (wife’s approval pending). I think the ultimate point of the hobby track is to just appreciate beautifully painted warhammer armies for what they are, and what they bring.

  2. Myrmidon April 16, 2018 7:20 am #

    Did Necrons or Tau won any tournament with their new codices recently?

    • Reecius
      Reecius April 16, 2018 7:22 am #

      Yeah, Tau just won one in Scotland and Necrons just one a GT in Oregon.

      • Alpharius Walks April 16, 2018 1:54 pm #

        Necrons also took a GT in Colorado two weekends ago.

  3. Voidwraith April 16, 2018 8:40 am #

    Val…when are you going to start your very own podcast? You’ve guest hosted on enough pods to get your feet wet, and you’re an obvious natural… Spread those wings and fly!

    • Petey Pab
      Petey Pab April 16, 2018 10:21 am #

      This is his podcast. It’s our baby now. That’s why I brought on all 3 of my co-hosts. I still run the show, but I couldn’t do it without them. Now, having said that. Val is such a great personality, I have no doubt in my mind that he would excel in a solo podcasting role.

  4. LordDakonus April 16, 2018 5:36 pm #

    great listen! good luck on the hobby project!.

  5. Agent X April 16, 2018 7:31 pm #

    I propose you make Brand’s Company your project and spread his story as part of this hobby track “crusade” you are about to embark on

    Young Brand was a big 40k fan and space wolf who passed away on April 7th.

    The SW community has been big on this and he even has his own company symbol etc.

    If you are not familiar with Brand’s story you can check it here

    https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=2004639336523362&id=1575682476085719

    • Petey Pab
      Petey Pab April 16, 2018 9:04 pm #

      I am very familiar, I posted a little thing about it on Facebook. I was devastated when I found out. We exchanged an email once about him wishing he could attend a 40k tournament. This was a while ago when I first started Chapter Tactics.

      Any ideas on how I should go about incorporating Brand’s Company into my idea? It isn’t a bad idea.

      RIP Young Wolf.

  6. Agent X April 16, 2018 8:12 pm #

    I can’t tell if it was intentional humor or not but referring to the variable MLB strike zone a random umpire has as a hit box made the gamer part of me laugh and the SF Giants fan part of me squirm

    • Petey Pab
      Petey Pab April 16, 2018 9:05 pm #

      Haha, it was intended to be a little humorous.

  7. Zweischneid April 17, 2018 10:31 am #

    Comparing pro 40K to sports is a good start. Most important take-away .. you need some tiers or leagues.

    You have the NFL, college league, etc.. You don’t have the 12 year old kid and his father, who wants to just have a fun weekend play against the New England Patriots.

    At some point, LVO & Co, if you wanna go the sport route, will need to separate the hobby-for-all-event that everyone can enter from smaller events with a premier league, secondary league, etc. that adhere to stricter rules (time to finish a game and fidelity being good examples).

  8. Pyrothem April 17, 2018 8:37 pm #

    Hey Pablo I am completely with you on the Car analogy. Deep in it myself as a builder (www.diversstreetrods.com). I think Reece is correct in it will be extremely hard to keep people honest if they decree that models must be painted by the owner.

    I really think ITC needs to learn from what the Car shows HAD to learn to survive. You know it as well as me there are now a million and two catagories in getting a ‘win’ at a big show and I think ITC will need to do the same. People like feeling recognized for the effort and even tho they may know they don’t have a hope of winning the big prize maybe they could get ‘best all metal army’ or ‘best all converted army’ and so on. It gets people not just champs into your show and shows need it to thrive. It is a lot of work but it has been proven to keep the shows going in a even crazier expensive hobby like custom cars. Shows with ONE winner wither away.

    I am sure you all have seen it at ITC even if almost everyone can not challenge the top 6 as they are there every year, people strive still becuase they got a shot at being best in Army X and THAT is their ‘win’.

    We may even get what the Car Shows have when the big boys win The Great 8 or Top 5 you will see them around later in the year and at smaller shows they will show them but keep them out of any of the competition. Letting people see what a 1million+ hand built car looks like in person without being an a$$ and trophy hunty the local scene.

    • Petey Pab
      Petey Pab April 18, 2018 10:13 am #

      I agree completely.

      I think the best way to run an event is to have multiple hobby categories like “Best Model”, “Best Character” etc. If you think about a Car Show, it is a pure hobby event. Like a paint competition like Golden Daemon. I think the Hobby Track could head in the right direction with “Best of Faction” awards.

      Also, as long as the prizes are as profitable as Car Show prizes (which are really a labor of love) I think people will always be more honest than not.

  9. Deathboon April 19, 2018 2:12 pm #

    Farsight Enclaves (no mixed septs)

  10. Magnus April 25, 2018 5:34 am #

    On the topic of the Hobby track and who can enter.

    I think a delicate way to do it is to split the competition into two categories:
    “Open” and “Limited”

    In open anyone can enter in any way shape or form, paid work etc.
    In Limited I think it should be limited to an actual person, or a group of persons, and those people can’t have worked on more than their own project for the “limited track”.

    I think there is merit to both sides of the argument. For me I would never pay for something to be painted for me, but I might have friends help me out, and it would suck to then go up against “The Best Painters in the World” not once, but 10s of times.
    At least in “limited” you’d have a better chance of seeing where you or your teams skill stack up against the best.

    In Open you could see some amazing concept armies, and compete more on a “imagination” level, than on a skill level.

    All in all it’s too simplistic to just have one category that everyone competes in.

    • Reecius
      Reecius April 25, 2018 1:53 pm #

      But what if the pros enter the limited track? Nothing changes, you are still competing with the pros. Yeah, as you noted possibly against less entries by them but if you can’t compete with them, you aren’t going to win regardless unless none of the pros enter the contest, or so very few that a amateur can get into the top 3 (or top 10 or whatever).

      And whenever you split competition you split attention. In every instance I have seen of this type of event occurring, one format becomes dominant, the other whithers in participation. Will the amateur or limited (or whatever) track get any attention? Do you create an entirely new database to track the exact same competition that is in all likelihood going to be less popular but that requires a lot more work to enforce the rules over and to administer? How do you run an event with both kinds of participants at the same event? How do you avoid simple mistakes in record keeping? And, again, back to the same issue of HOW do you regulate it? How do you prove someone is actually following the rules? If someone were so inclined to try and cheat the system, and the odds of winning in the limited class were higher, you have placed the incentive now to try and cheat the system there. Tracking all of this would be a huge task for not a huge return, in my opinion.

      I mean ultimately, there is no getting around the fact that in a competition of talent, you have to be able to compete with the most talented. The objective should simply be to do the best you can and to push to improve your skillset, not to expect to defeat golden daemon quality painters if you are unwilling or unable to put in the time to acquire the skillset to do so.

  11. Argentius July 3, 2018 5:40 pm #

    I find it funny that PeteyPab asks for feedback and then criticizes people whom he doesn’t agree with.

    If you don’t care about who “paints” an army for a hobby score, then it’s pay to play.

    Could I pay someone more skilled than me play my army and get “best general”?

    Could I bribe my opponents with alcohol and bubblegum to have them vote me “best sportsman”?

    Do you see what I’m getting at? Please don’t make the counter argument that it’s apples and oranges, it really isn’t. It’s a slippery slope that shouldn’t be started to begin with. If you can’t “paint” learn to paint. If you don’t know 40k strategy, learn to play. Don’t bring money into the equation.

    • Dakkath July 3, 2018 8:10 pm #

      Well I can’t speak for everyone, but personally I actually hate painting and assembling the models. I’ll pay someone to get it to tabletop standard so that’s one less thing I have to worry about.

    • abusepuppy July 3, 2018 9:34 pm #

      >Could I pay someone more skilled than me play my army and get “best general”?

      I mean, sure, why not? Do you think that handing the trophy to someone else somehow causes it to cease existing? The painting score is about recognizing _the skill of the player who painted the army_; I don’t see why someone else buying the army (or having it commissioned) somehow makes it less skillful.

      >Could I bribe my opponents with alcohol and bubblegum to have them vote me “best sportsman”?

      You say this as though it were crazy hyperbole, but you know that a lot of players DO buy their opponents a beer during/after games, right?

      Money is already part of the equation. Trying to pretend it isn’t is just laying a dainty little napkin over the problem without changing a damn thing.

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