GW has released the FAQ for Ravenguard and Iron Hands!
What do you think?
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About Reecius
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Hey look at that, all the ITC folks from their podcasts and what not got their complaints heard. Good Game ITC folks! You got the nerfs you wanted.
You say that like it’s a bad thing.
Also, they didn’t get the nerf they wanted, but let’s hope thoses are enough.
Do you play Iron Hands, by any chance?
The podcasters on the FLGN did not make this happen, lol.
Everyone knows the FLGN only arranges for Eldar nerfs to happen……
Eldar? Haha, when did they jump on the bandwagon, lol. I thought we only were supposed to be out to get T’au?
Sheesh, I have trouble keeping up with whom we are meant to be out to get, lol.
Of course you are out to nerf all the armies I play. How can your master plan to take over the 40k universe come to fruition if you keep forgetting the basic principle?
Reecio only nerfs tau
I for one am very thankful to you, Reece, for using your influence to keep the Tau toothless and keeping the Blue Menace at bay.
Lol, they’re on to us, boys. Run!
Nice try, Reecius.
I heard from my father’s brother’s nephew’s cousin’s former roommate that FLGN did make this happen.
What now?!
Well, who can argue with that? =P
The invuln bubble change to Fierros was a bit much, but the rest looks good.
Yeah sadly feirros feels a bit useless now. Meh, feels like we are just going to switch from seeing IH on the tables to seeing IF on the tables.
People keep goin on about IH and the IH winrates but they have terrible match ups against RG and IF. I think that will hurt them enough to the point where they are no longer the no questions best SM subfaction.
I think IH infantry lists will rise up now. Grav Cents hitting on 2’s with a 5++ and 5+++ backed by a banner and apothecary will be nothing to laugh at.
How are you adding +1 to your FNP? Because that might make me want to be a terrible player and experiment with terminators again (TH/SS seems like it could be an OK bullgryn style unit with solid new strats)
There’s a strat that does that for an infantry unit when targeted.
The Reject the Flesh strat. It’s only 1CP, makes an infantry unit gain a 5+++.
Honest question: how worthwhile is a 5++ invuln on a 2+ save infantry model? I can’t see any infantry based lists being used by IH vs other chapters. If you go centurions you’re gonna go IF or something else. Feirros is a pretty subpar choice now vs other HQs considering the nerf to the repair strat as well. You can still get a Deredeo with Pavise for 220ish? I’d be happier getting the invuln back and a points increase for the iron father.
The rest of the nerfs seemed on target except I think flyers are gonna need looked at in general.
It’s (obviously) worth it for AP-4 weapons and better. If you don’t find yourself facing that much then perhaps not, but it’s more common than people think, particularly in melee.
The Flyer armies aren’t as impacted I agree but it really helps in the alpha strike as if you go first the odds of smoking those flyers is so much higher now. That fact may discourage players form going all in on the airforce.
And Feirros is in no way shape or form subpar, lol. You still get so much for the points, it’s crazy. He was just ludicrous before, now he’s simply very good.
>a bit useless
>makes a unit BS2+ regardless of damage suffered
>repairs 3HP per turn
>extremely hard to get rid of
>brutal in melee
>only techmarine with an invuln
>still costs less than a Captain
Sure, man.
Yeah, at the bargain price of 110pts, too. He’s amazing.
Thank you for your friendly non sarcastic response, really helps having a reasonable discussion on things! /s
He is decent still but with his main ability adjusted i feel the opportunity cost for him has become too high. For less points you can slot in a chaplain or librarian or chapter master that does a lot more utility and buff wise. He has decent combat but i dont feel like that is providing most of my lists with 110 points worth of benefits. For his price you now can can get two tech marines which fills more slots for your detachments. I would have preferred to see Feirros go up in points (even 220) and still buff vehicles rather than having his role in the army changed rather drastically.
“makes a unit BS2+ regardless of damage suffered”
Iron Hands so you are top bracket anyways. Still a nice buff though especially vs aeldari flyers etc
“repairs 3HP per turn”
Two techmarines repair 2d3 and cost less
“extremely hard to get rid of”
Kills weak stuff like space marine characters do, dies to daemon princes etc like space marine characters do. He is pretty tough but hardly a beatstick.
“brutal in melee”
Do Iron Hands lists need melee that moves 5 inches a turn? Its nice but hardly a selling point. Especially when compared to a CM on bike.
“only techmarine with an invuln”
Sure
“still costs less than a Captain”
No he does not…. Unless you cant math captains,primaris captains, captains in phobos armour, captains on bike, captains in gravis armour, captains in cataphractii armour all are cheaper.
“Sure, man.”
A step in the right direction. I am not sure the IH one went far enough, but I do know GW likes to make incrimental changes. RG I completely agree with as far as what was intended.
IH is still very powerful, will need to see how these play out now.
Great step in the right direction. Still a lot of points adjustments and balance changes that need to happen. Won’t affect some of the best IH lists or any of the SM lists of other chapters. At least GW listened and it’s a start. Might still be all Marines all the time until spring.
I still feel that as long as Doctrines come with several armies’ worth of special rules rolled in for free, Marines and especially IH (but possibly IF as well) will be a problem. The flier spam list went pretty much untouched by this, for example. Even so, this is a hell of a lot better than nothing and good on GW for taking the time to receive feedback and fix their fuckups (even if it would have been better not to screw it up to begin with). It does bode well for the future that they weren’t afraid to take relatively decisive action compared to previous broken armies.
Am I the only person who gets a different document for the Iron Hands errata/faq when I go through the GW Community page and when I use the links in this article?
Removes the Repulsor Executioner as a viable unit for comp play, but otherwise IH lists are still going to dominate. Kinda salty because I just bought some Repulsors….
They’re still viable in competitive 40k. A gentleman went 5-1 at LGT with 3 Repulsor Executioners and Salamanders who didn’t have hardly any options at the point. There were a lot of them on the tables. Heck I went 5-1 with my WS Repulsor at the LGT and it had zero extra buffs, haha.
Nah i think they are still viable. We have seen BA with tripple repulsors (this was pre executioners) do allright for a while and seen tripple executioners with the non IH stuff do allright as well.
Especially with the changed Null Zone and the new impulsor they have quite a bit of play. You can catapult a libby 14″ (impulsor move) + 3″ + 6″ + d6″ (Disembark + advance) + 6″ (Null zone aura) = minimum 30″ and turn of a knights 4++ or plaguebearer invulns and follow that up with very solid firepower. Repulsors in crates still give a -4 on charges which helps tremendously as well against many armies.
Its not as faceroll as it used to be but the people selling their executioners right now are overreacting.
Nice to see you don’t have to try to beat and army if you whine loud enough to get it nerfed into the ground.
There were 4 IH armies in the top ten at BoS… ran by some of the dick stompiest players in competitive 40k. OF COURSE they’d Dominate. Nick Rose could be 90% of us with tooth picks and a mop.
Shees at least try and figure a way to build a winning list before calling for the nerfbats.. cowards
It wasn’t because of whining buddy, the numbers prove they were OP unequivocally. Here’s a good article on it: https://www.goonhammer.com/the-man-with-the-iron-hands-understanding-the-current-40k-meta/
It was really beyond debate.
And calling people cowards is obviously pointless, lol.
“I’m not your buddy, Pal!” Obligatory movie reference.
I read the goons article, and I get what the math says…
But the math also says you should be able to hit a 300m target at a maximum launch angle of 37 degrees 7 out of 10 times and don’t.
The math said Mike Tyson should beat Buster Douglas, Douglas showed up and won a world title.
Just saying throw the darn dice first.
All invul bubbles in the game either only affect infantry/bikes by touching or only affect models wholly within the aura’s range. All of these auras have been changed since the start of 8th to work like above as just affecting units within range was way too OP.
It was good to see they reigned in Feirros invul bubble to be in-line with all the other invul auras.
This FAQ is very much needed.
Prior to the FAQ you had the potential to repair 10 wounds on a single vehicle: 6 from Feirros, up to 3 from reforge and 1 from warlord trait on a non techmarine character. Coupled with bubbles for 5++ and ironstone on vehicles ( both bubbles now gone), with the duty eternal stratagem for dreads, how did anyone kill IH vehicles?
Now, the most you can abuse vehicle repairs on one vehicle is max 4 wounds. Also, only one dreadnought can be a character to avoid being shot at. It can get a warlord trait for 5+++ so there is still some use.
Only can repair 9 in your example, the warlord trait has the same caveat as the techmarine that it can repair already repaired vehicles. The max IH used to be able to do was 11 on one vehicle techmarine with the warlord trait of +1 healing twice plus the librarian power
The FAQ was needed primarily to rein in all the negativity in the community. The last week has been horrible listening to all the community leaders and players threatening to quit or take breaks. I don’t know if this was enough, but at least they curbed many of the most obvious abuses.
Classic Reecio, getting work done.
lol
Yeah. I still think Marines (of most, if not all supplements) will go with a 60+% win rate, but it shows responsiveness and that GW is willing to ignore the hysterical cry-wolf-babies that couldn’t go 0-5 in balanced game and shout “all is fine” at the top of their lungs everytime a crutch comes along that would carry them to some undeserved wins.
So far it’s only WS that are in the 60%+ range (well and IH obviously but that will change hopefully wit hthe FAQ). Ultras are in the low 50’s and RG are in the 50’s as well, but it’s early for them.
It seems like this removed some of the more fun options from the Iron hands and encourages even more flyer spam. Not really a happy outcome. Seems like eldar and iron hands are going to be running 3-6 fliers.
This is a really good, measured FAQ. If it doesn’t do enough, then it can be ramped up for the April FAQ. The Ironhands Airforce is basically untouched (except for a possible 5++ from Feirros) but the biggest “I put my army down, I win you lose lool” boogymen have basically been fixed.
I’m not really happy with that hard nerf, as it crushes or affects many builds, but leaves the strongest part which is the 4-5 part chapter trait untouched. So it seems GW wants to follow the marine strategy of severe output and average to poor input.
So as far as I can judge, a significant amount of tournament lists (IH successors with flyer spam) are more or less untouched, so there will still be dominating IH lists that will spam “fly”. If thats want you want to see in tournaments, then here you go!
In particular I’m super annoyed by the loss of the 5++ from feirros (they could have done a similar thing as with the stone), whereas the unkillable livathan is still possible (why not removing combo of stone with duty eternal?). So we need to buy that ugly speedboat dread from forgeworld to get the 5++ back – maybe they still want to sell that, and the levi’s :-).
How did RG fly under the radar???