GW Grognard: OK, Time for the Indexes to Die

Hey everyone! Adam, from TFG Radio, here to give the people what they want, more me!

I’m pretty sure an insurance salesman created these

These are exciting times, right now. Everyone is all abuzz with the recent release of the Genestealer Cult codex. Many players are busy creating new lists and combinations to bring to the tabletop and try to win, at least until Games Workshop nerfs some of the better stuff. Even in our own group, there have been a few rumbling beneath the ground about the Four Armed Emperor. All this excitement is great and I look forward to some of the things that Games Workshop has coming up.  One of the things I am hoping for is for Games Workshop to put an end to the confusion, and get rid of the Index/Codex chart, at least for Matched Play.

DIE!

For the first time, ever, we have a current codex for all the armies in the game. Sorry Sisters of Battle, I’m not counting you guys because you have your beta codex that replaces the index options. Since it is apparently Games Workshop policy to not make rules for models they don’t produce, thanks Chapterhouse, we are seeing a lot of units we normally see absent from the codex. As a result, Games Workshop had to come up with a stop gap for those people that scratchbuilt a lot of those models, myself included. It has been fun while not everyone had a current codex, but now with all the codexes out, there is no need for the chart. The chart actually causes a lot of headaches for tournament organizers, judges, and players. Even if a unit makes it into the codex, there are still issues because of certain wargear, or weapons, that did not carry over. As a result, you get a number of issues that involve switching wargear between the codex and index that causes players to construct their army incorrectly, or even for tournament organizers and judges to deem an army list illegal because their interpretation may be different from the player’s. As we move further from the beginning of 8th edition, and as the rule set evolves, your index models will probably become less and less available.

not sure if I want him back or nit

I understand that some models have a lot of love and care put into them, or they are units that you still have and want to run in a tournament. I. myself, have a number of models sitting on my shelves from over 30 years of Games Workshop games, that are no longer valid.  Much like the black book in 3rd edition, the indexes were really only created to transition units from the previous edition to this new one. We all saw it in the early days of Age of Sigmar and the same thing is happening now with 40K. Models that Games Workshop does not produce will not get rules, unless they start to make those models. Now I know there are still a few units that you can only find in the index. However, with rules now being published in White Dwarf, we are seeing the company transition units that are still in the index *cough*Assassins*cough* into the new edition with updated rules. Because of this, we can easily see them cleaning up the stray units using White Dwarf. This doesn’t mean you should throw your models away. All they have to say is that the chart is for Open and Narrative Play only. So get as much use out of those Index units as you can because, hopefully, they won’t be around for Match Play.

That’s all for this week, I hope you enjoyed the read. Let me know your thoughts, and what you think about the chart, in the comments section. Don’t forget to visit our Facebook, Twitch, and Patreon pages to stay up to date on what we’re up to and when episodes drop!

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About Adam

Adam, aka Latin Gandalf, has been gaming since the early eighties and has played 40K since Rogue Trader (among a number of other games). He listens to more podcasts than any healthy person should and is currently the host for TFG Radio. He also is one of the head judges for LVO and other major 40K Grand Tournaments.

21 Responses to “GW Grognard: OK, Time for the Indexes to Die”

  1. Avatar
    Blight1 February 23, 2019 5:59 am #

    You and pry my mega-armored warboss and regular big mek from my cold dead hands. They can’t give those options to loyalist space marines and then rip them from us. Heck I have an official GW model for my big mek with force field and it wasn’t even that long ago that you could buy it from their site.
    Until they bring the options back I will fight to have the index stay.

  2. Avatar
    Blight1 February 23, 2019 6:00 am #

    You can pry my mega-armored warboss and regular big mek from my cold dead hands. They can’t give those options to loyalist space marines and then rip them from us. Heck I have an official GW model for my big mek with force field and it wasn’t even that long ago that you could buy it from their site.
    Until they bring the options back I will fight to have the index stay.

  3. Avatar
    Paul Winters February 23, 2019 6:40 am #

    I kind of need my Index Heralds of Slaanesh to play my Seekers and Fiends. GW only brought 1 of the 4 Slaanesh Heralds to the Codex.

    • Avatar
      40KChris February 23, 2019 9:47 am #

      Right?

      I’m still scratching my head over why the Herald on Seeker/Exalted Seeker Chariot was not in the codex outright. It says that you can build them that way in the instructions and on the box art.

      • Avatar
        Paul Winters February 24, 2019 9:23 am #

        Maybe GW intended to release a Slaanesh codex at a later date and most of the Slaanesh content is a place holder?

        It wouldn’t be a big deal if GW would just release a new data cards for those 3 Heralds, as part of a Codex: Chaos Daemon FAQ. Then we could stop bringing Index: Chaos.

        For new players who buy the Start Collecting Slaanesh Daemons box, the HQ choice is the Herald on the Exalted Chariot. There are a few problems with this.

        1. New players need both Codex: Chaos Daemons and Index: Chaos, to play.
        2. The Herald is like 80~ part model. (Each of those bladed axels is about 30 separate pieces and you make 2 of them)
        3. Herald on the Exalted Chariot, is the worst Chaos Daemon HQ choice weighing in at 140pts and is a targetable character.

  4. Avatar
    Argentus February 23, 2019 6:43 am #

    I think if you don’t want to use Indexes then ban them from your tournaments, don’t make a suggestion to keep every player in the world from bringing their toys.

    The Indexes and how to use them are not confusing. I also don’t believe it does cause any headaches or trouble.

  5. Avatar
    Torapu February 23, 2019 7:09 am #

    Well since here in europe we mostly play ETC where index options are not allowed and the sky isnt falling i think its the future it make checking legality of lists much easier

    • Avatar
      Argentus February 23, 2019 8:50 am #

      You can apply whatever rules you want to tournaments and people will play. If you want to ban indexes in the LVO or ETC fine. There will probably be some very loud grumbling from some people, but do what you will.

      But to disallow them from being used even in pickup games using matched play, the most commonly used game mode?

      Why? If it’s confusing for tournaments (which I find hard to believe) fine, ban them, but there’s no reason to take away units from everyone.

  6. Avatar
    WestRider February 23, 2019 8:05 am #

    I just wish GW would deal with more of these by releasing Models rather than dropping Rules. Losing stuff like Chaos Mounts is a bummer.

    • Avatar
      abusepuppy February 24, 2019 9:02 am #

      It really just is an issue of money. The models people talk about with respect to the indices are all very niche options that haven’t been produced in a long time, so GW has very little incentive to support them by dropping a half-million bucks on a brand-new plastic mold in order to sell fifty or sixty kits.

      That said, I don’t love that their policy has essentially become “conversions what are conversions no senor we have not heard of these” despite the fact that they can make a hell of a lot of money that way.

      • Avatar
        WestRider February 24, 2019 2:44 pm #

        In some cases, yeah. The ones that really get me are the ones where they’ve released a new kit since that policy started at least loosely being a thing, like the plastic Commissar kit only coming with a Power Sword, or the plastic Librarian kits only coming with one variety of Force Weapon. Or the Orks getting six full kits instead of one that replaced the Warbuggy/Trakk, and then spending some of those resources on filling in their Index-only Characters. Or Plague Marine Champions getting access to Plasmaguns, but no other Special or Combi-Weapons. Or Plague Terminators not having a Maul or Fist option. And I’m still pissed that Helbrutes didn’t get a Havoc Missile Launcher option when they got their new kit, given that that was originally only available to Chaos Dreads.

        There are also some that feel like no-brainers. What Khorne Player wouldn’t want to be able to run Berzerkers on Juggernauts, with a few extra bits in there to make a Juggerlord?

        And yeah, as you say, the fact that they’re removing the options for even the simplest of Conversions accounts for a substantial part of it. Why no Jump Pack option for Exalted Champions or Dark Apostles? Exalted Champions require a Conversion anyhow, as do Jump Pack Sorcerers, or Jump Pack Chaos Lords with anything other than Lightning Claws and an idiotic pose. Or Intercessor Sergeants can take a Power Sword even tho that requires a Conversion, but I can’t expend the same amount of effort to Convert one with a Power Axe or Maul.

        OK, yeah, this is a topic that gets under my skin, and I may be overreacting. But I really do feel that they’ve pushed way too strongly in this direction over the last few years.

  7. Avatar
    Jrod February 23, 2019 12:08 pm #

    FITE ME

  8. Avatar
    Pharo February 23, 2019 2:59 pm #

    If anything I think it is time for new Index’s. They can compile all the cost changes, rules, customizations and units so we don’t have to carry so many books and print outs.

    Plus they can include units they missed in the codex. Orc bosses on bikes, veteran bikers ect. The index books were great. Currently they add complexity but new editions can reduce even more complexity.

    • Avatar
      WestRider February 24, 2019 2:47 pm #

      An updated version could be collapsed into a single book. Which would streamline the hell out of deciding what you could and couldn’t take from it.

  9. Avatar
    Michael Hall February 23, 2019 4:35 pm #

    Another week, another bane the index article, seriously?

    There are many complicated things in this game we play, the flow chart and use of the indexes isn’t one of them.

    You say make them so people can use them in non matched play but we all know that most games tend to use the match play rules anyway as they are the ones with balance, I suspect most garage games are played with only one cast of each psychic power and one use of strats.

    Some of these models were available for sale within the last few months as were the books themselves. The rules are perfectly correct and useable so why this campaign to remove the ability for people to use their models!

    For most of the life of this game players have been encouraged to be creative and imaginative in their modelling to make unique miniatures. Much as I love the new attitude GW has had over the past few years the major downside has been the move to mono pose models, lack of options and variety.

    By continually campaigning for old (a few months in some cases) models/rules to be banned you are only encouraging this bad spiral or removing player options and making the game less unique and individual.

    I would understand if the index rules were super broken but I don’t see any special case rules problem tearing up the meta, if anything GWs approach to not including index options in any of the sweeping points reductions in CA makes them bad options to take anyway.

  10. Avatar
    Dakkath February 23, 2019 7:23 pm #

    Indexes can die when they give all the options back to the updated codex.

  11. Avatar
    Shas’O February 23, 2019 7:28 pm #

    I agree! Maybe also take all the non codex sources and make them natative and open play too. We’re almost back to 7th, where you need a stack of books to play a single army.

  12. Avatar
    happy_inquisitor February 24, 2019 1:01 am #

    If it is a problem for tournaments you are involved in then take responsibility and do not allow them in your tournaments.

    Do not demand that GW stop people from playing with the metal/plastic toys that they bought from GW. Quite rightly GW are leaving some basic support for that in the game. I do not think anybody outside of tournaments is having any problem with this so there is no need to change the game for everybody just to suit you.

  13. Avatar
    Victor February 24, 2019 1:56 pm #

    I think too that GW should have carried over the index units to the codex, even if they don’t produce an exact model to that combination of unit/wargear. People will complain anyways for the lack of an official model, but at least that model can be converted

  14. Avatar
    Anggul February 26, 2019 2:36 am #

    I’ll drop my index when they give Autarchs their options back in an FAQ or something.

    Removing them from the codex was moronic. Having options from each aspect is what Autarchs were invented for in the first place. They can’t even use the model argument because they could have easily fit more options into the plastic Autarch sprue. Even just a banshee mask option would have been easy.

  15. SaltyJohn
    SaltyJohn February 26, 2019 4:05 pm #

    Oh god yes!

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