Chapter Tactics #93: A Playtesters’ Take on Chapter Approved, Vigilus Defiant and Meta Analysis

Chapter Tactics is a 40k podcast which focuses on promoting better tactical play and situational awareness across all variations of the game. Today Peteypab brings on 3 GW playtesters to talk about the changes Chapter Approved makes on the meta, and how much we should be paying attention to Vigilus Defiant. 

Show Notes:

  • Check out Geoff on Twitch! Where he plays games, talks 40k, and generally entertains you.
  • Click here for a link for information on downloading best coast pairings app where you can find lists for most of the events I mention.
  • Check out the last episode of Chapter Tactics here. Or, click here for a link to a full archive of all of my episodes.
  • Commercial music by Music by:
  • Intro by: Justin Mahar

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About Petey Pab

Aspiring 40k analyst, tournament reporter and Ultramarines enthusiast, Petey Pab only seeks to gather more knowledge about the game of 40k and share it with as many people as he can in order to unite both hobbyists and gamers. We are, after all, two sides of the same coin.

29 Responses to “Chapter Tactics #93: A Playtesters’ Take on Chapter Approved, Vigilus Defiant and Meta Analysis”

  1. Avatar
    rvd1ofakind December 11, 2018 12:02 am #

    I’m still confused about the Kastellan specialist detachment relic. So does it allow changing protocols immediatelly or does it just turn your relic holder into a longer range datasmith? Because the wording is allows Kastellans to try and change protocols and that’s it. It feels like the rule then continues on the Kastellan datasheet, which says what the protocols actually are and that when you try and change protocols and succeed – they only change next battle round.

  2. Avatar
    Wayne Molina December 11, 2018 8:31 am #

    I’m curious if you guys (i.e. FLG) feel that GW balances their adjustments based on their Chapter Approved missions. It’s no secret that the ITC meta is vastly different than the non-ITC meta (see GW’s own Grand Tournaments for evidence). If GW is intending for their missions to be part of the balance of 40k, do you think that ITC having their own missions will end up not giving the full effect of GW’s changes?

    • Reecius
      Reecius December 11, 2018 9:16 am #

      The game isn’t designed to be played only with GW’s Matched Play missions as you can see in Chapter Approved itself, they have all kinds of different missions in there for wildly different types of play. Also, that would mean that there would be a gap in armies balanced to some missions and not others, you know? There’s a massive difference between BRB Maelstrom missions and these new CA missions.

      The armies are meant to be balanced on their own, although that is a really good question.

      • Avatar
        Charlie A. December 11, 2018 9:34 am #

        Then a follow up question, can missions be used to help balance the game? Different objectives, deployments, special rules etc. that aid in the balancing of the game at large?

        • Reecius
          Reecius December 11, 2018 10:26 am #

          Yeah, of course. That’s the aim with mission sets like the ITC that have secondary missions you choose based on what your opponent brought.

  3. Avatar
    Ujayim December 11, 2018 9:29 am #

    Im a simple man, I see Geoff Robinson, I listen.

    Mine all of the salt for me, my son.

    • Avatar
      Ujayim December 11, 2018 11:11 am #

      Didn’t disappoint. Much like Geoff, I’m insanely excited for GSC.

      I bought 20 Aberrants the second I saw the Anointed Throng, and cannot wait to see what models I have to buy to make GSC work.

      Literally. I can’t wait to buy them. Lol

  4. Avatar
    Tim December 11, 2018 11:45 am #

    “lets go to Tau next..”
    “ok lets go to Tau now”
    “ok lets talk about 1k Sons”
    “you skipped Tau”
    “I know”

    • Petey Pab
      Petey Pab December 11, 2018 1:03 pm #

      Hey Tim! We actually skimmed over 1k sons to save time for Tau and Nids, factions I knew we were going to spend a significant amount of time on.

      I do agree, the Space Marine talk lingered on a bit longer lol. But there was just so much content to cover.

      Reece is correct, we reviewed Tau in more depth than other factions. They got really good after these point drops.

  5. Avatar
    Tim December 11, 2018 11:54 am #

    Holy crap you guys straight up skipped Tau

    • Reecius
      Reecius December 11, 2018 12:27 pm #

      No we didn’t. We mentioned the big points drops for suits and for many wargear items. Geoff even told some silly Riptide jokes and a long story about T’au Tiny Tim, haha.

  6. Avatar
    Jason Wolfe December 11, 2018 1:35 pm #

    Alright, I retract my pre-ca2018 admech salt. I will order 4 boxes of infiltrators and more rangers later this week. MARS brigades are much better. The list I am thinking of for LVO is down ~331 points. This is a good excuse to repaint my greenmech to something brighter and get some movement trays for the skitarii bricks.

    MARS brigade
    Cawl + 2x Enginseer
    5×9 rangers with omnispex
    2×8 vanguard
    3×10 uzi infiltrators
    3×1 autocannon ballistari
    3×1 neutron onagers

    BLANGELS patrol
    Smash captain + 1×6 scouts

    I still think kataphrons are stinky and will insta die to any current top8 list (eldar / knights will devour T5/5++ 3W models). Every failed 5++ versus dark reapers / castellan costs 50 points. But the infiltrator + wrath of mars + brigade list is going to be a thing.

    • Avatar
      Ujayim December 11, 2018 1:52 pm #

      Don’t sleep on MSU Rangers in drills w/ 2x Plasma either, thats gonna be interesting.

      • Avatar
        jason wolfe December 11, 2018 3:25 pm #

        I totally get the point efficiency of plasma rangers and cawl. On paper their math is devastating. But that 18″ range and then needing to buy them drills to get them in place is pretty onerous. 18″ range is rough in a meta filled with 20″ range charge threats. I would lean towards using a LUCIUS brigade and just deepstriking them for 1CP a piece. Why not go for the 10 man with 3 plasma and the data link so that the strategem gives them +2 to hit? CP efficiency says you should use big groups to magnify the power of the CP spends.

    • Reecius
      Reecius December 11, 2018 2:07 pm #

      Damn, son. 30 Infiltrators! I love it, haha.

      • Avatar
        jason wolfe December 11, 2018 3:29 pm #

        I specifically rethought my dakkabot spam due to your read over of chapter approved. 3×10 infiltrators is harder to counter than 1×6 dakkabots, even if the dakkabot volley is 2.5x as strong as a volley from 1×10 infiltrators. At 180 points for 50 shots, the infilrators can compete with 220 points of robots generating 36 shots. The infiltrators cannot kill a knight or primarch like the dakkabots, but they don’t insta lose in so many situations.

        • Reecius
          Reecius December 11, 2018 4:14 pm #

          Awesome! Yeah, I can say from first hand experience that it works quite well. I typically use them to smoke the screen units and then charge in, but if you had successive waves of them, each utilizing WoM, that would be devastating.

  7. Avatar
    TacoBeasty December 11, 2018 1:39 pm #

    Brilliant show guys. Insightful and fun.

  8. Avatar
    Sasori December 11, 2018 3:34 pm #

    Did you guys skip Necrons? I coulden’t find the spot in it when ya’ll talked about it.

    • Avatar
      Sasori December 11, 2018 3:40 pm #

      Nevermind, I found it. I was following Alphabetic order haha.

  9. Avatar
    Dacier December 11, 2018 5:36 pm #

    @Reecius Since Blood Angel weapons (Encarmine) along with Codices released after Chapter Approved was written (Drukari and Knights) we’re not changed, do you know or think there will be an Errata that will come out changing this?

  10. Avatar
    Paul Winters December 11, 2018 6:41 pm #

    +1 for the Noise Marine tip about character sniping. I have been using them wrong this whole time.

  11. Avatar
    Pyrothem December 11, 2018 11:59 pm #

    Like everyone on the pod roundabout said Chapter Approved can not help Necrons right now. An extra 150 points will not move the sub 15% win rate vs Knights and Eldar. But you know what? I am going to find other armies to play against. So to all those Black Templars, White Scars, pure demons of the red and pink variety and anyone else that can not overcome their codexes faults Necrons are here to play a game, roll some dice and share some drinks.

    I will be trying out as many lists as I can with the freedom CA gave me with points. With Orks going from the bottom to the the top after so many years it is time for another army to take up the flag, I want to make it be (for now) Necrons you can always count on for a fun fluffy game!

  12. Avatar
    Some dude December 12, 2018 2:11 am #

    When will (Chaos) Space Marines get Chapter/Legion Tactics for thier vehicles? It didn’t happen with either of the Big FAQs this year and apparently not with CA either.

  13. Avatar
    Donthemagnificent December 12, 2018 5:32 pm #

    You guys make me blush.

  14. Avatar
    Schmuvness December 13, 2018 10:52 am #

    Will we see more Space Marines Articles by you, Sir Reecius?
    I always enjoyed these.

    Also give Mr. Robinson his own Show! Or at least get him writing on awesome articles again.

  15. Avatar
    Trantatrus December 14, 2018 4:49 am #

    I usually agree with most of what the guy says, but a lot of Geoff’s analysis on the Tyranids makes my head hurt. Most of all, the statements that Neurothropes would be balanced at 100 pts, but Broodlords are also slightly overcosted and should be 100 pts. Like. . what?

    They have the same powers, Broodlord is +1 strength and toughness and +1 wound, 8″ move instead of 5″ move, advance and charge, 6 attacks, WS2+, AP3 D3 reroll to wound, and a +1 WS bubble to all Stealers in your army.

    Literally the only thing I can see that the Neurothrope does better is 3++ instead of 5++, and they are characters anyway.

    By what logic are these units both balanced at the same price? Hell even at 10 pts between them. If the Broodlord is a 100 pt model, then the Neurothrope simply isn’t 90 pts. He’s already hard to justify at only 25 pts cheaper than the Broodlord considering everything the BL brings.

  16. Avatar
    Chaz Sexington December 15, 2018 6:08 am #

    The main issue with Warp Talons is their rules. Why waste points on something, that while doesn’t suffer Overwatch from Deep Strike, has to make a 9″ charge? If you could semi-reliably manage it, they’d be considered, as they could tag lots of things.

    I did some quick maths on the Cultist Bomb Detachment vs. a buffed Chosen Bomb in a LR, pre- and post-CA.

    Pre-CA, 3×40 Cultists, Abaddon, and a Sorcerer conked out at 818, while 8 Chosen (7x power sword, 1x powerfist, 5x plasmagun, 1x combi-plasma, IoE), a Chaos Lord, an Exalted Champion, Sorcerer, and Land Raider came out at 856.

    Post-CA, it’s 938 and 766. That’s a 202pt swing towards the LR and Chosen, with the Cultists costing 172pt more now.

    I don’t think it’s a competitive choice (It doesn’t have the durability or board control of the Cultists), but it’s a lot more viable in casual play. It won’t feel like I’m purposefully hamstringing myself.

    • Avatar
      Chaz Sexington December 17, 2018 3:38 am #

      Oh, and CSMs, in a ten-man squad got something like a 10pt drop if you max their equipment options. Chosen, Havocs etc. can leverage the wargear point drop much better than CSMs (my 8 Chosen dropped almost 40 points IIRC).

      CSMs (and SMs) need a 1-2 point drop and Battleshock mitigation once they got over 10, and they also need a reason to go above 5.

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