Chapter Tactics #76: Going Over our BAO Performances, and Where Do Knights Belong in the Meta?

Chapter Tactics is a 40k podcast which focuses on promoting better tactical play and situational awareness across all variations of the game. Today PeteyPab, Abusepuppy, and Geoff talk a lot of nitty gritty tactics and recount all of their BAO games. They also got a hold of some very cool data on the BAO, and go over individual detachment numbers, detachment faction choices, faction results, and much more!

Show Notes:

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About Petey Pab

Aspiring 40k analyst, tournament reporter and Ultramarines enthusiast, Petey Pab only seeks to gather more knowledge about the game of 40k and share it with as many people as he can in order to unite both hobbyists and gamers. We are, after all, two sides of the same coin.

29 Responses to “Chapter Tactics #76: Going Over our BAO Performances, and Where Do Knights Belong in the Meta?”

  1. SaltyJohn
    SaltyJohn July 30, 2018 11:34 pm #

    That moment when you’re not sure if Geoff referring to you as “absolutely a dark horse” was a compliment or insult! 😀

  2. Zweischneid July 30, 2018 11:49 pm #

    Games are done, but from the description of Sean’s game against Dark Angels, dropping in Swooping Hawks and Fire-&-Fading them shouldn’t have worked. As per FAQ, you cannot move units arriving from reserves via stratagems, psychic powers, the Swarmlord thing, or anything else (except charge). That’d include Fire-&-Fade.

    • AbusePuppy July 31, 2018 5:00 am #

      Ah, dang, you are correct; I screwed that one up. Probably wouldn’t have made any difference in the game, since I ended up well ahead on points, but still feels bad to realize. I owe Aaron an apology.

      • Ujayim July 31, 2018 5:44 am #

        Respectable response.

  3. Cy July 31, 2018 7:54 am #

    Where do knights belong in the meta… I mean apparently towering over it crushing it into the dirt with iron feet.

    • Reecius
      Reecius July 31, 2018 8:32 am #

      lolol

      But jokes aside, I think folks still just haven’t adjusted to them. A few things they do are a bit too strong but nothing is broken IMO. Once folks adjust and start bringing more Knight killing units they will start to fade a bit.

      We’ll see, but that is my prediction.

      • Cy July 31, 2018 10:47 am #

        By adjust do you mean adding BA captains, playing space elves, more knights than your opponent, or (your fast cheap melee that’s not as good as a ba captain goes here)?

        In all seriousness I I agree, they aren’t game breaking overpowered, just very good, and easy to win with which makes them appear to the average BOLS commenters as SKY IS FALLING OP.

        I think things will change up when we get orcs and more people are running 150+ body up in your face armies.

        Congrats on the great event by the way. Glad that there was no drama for people to whine about.

        I give the event 5/5 grey knight terminators

        • Reecius
          Reecius July 31, 2018 5:45 pm #

          lol, 5 out of 5 Grey Knight Terminators?!?! WE DID IT! =P

          But yeah, Knights rock but as you noted we go through this cycle with most new books. Everyone was saying it about Drukhari and before that Custodes, etc. The meta always adapts.

          I mean, the 3++ vs. shooting is probably a bit much, and the Raven strat is also probably a bit much but neither is game breaking, IMO.

          Soon lists will adapt with anti-Knight goodies, and the latest and greatest thing will come out and Knights will fall off of people’s radar a bit.

          • Deviant Duck August 1, 2018 7:03 am
            #

            So.. What is anti 3++ and anti 28 wounds and anti T8?

          • Reecius
            Reecius August 1, 2018 7:33 am
            #

            Well, shooting itsn’t the best bet if you can avoid it, obviously. And only one Knight can go that resilient. Melee is typically where you take Knights out quickly, IME. If you don’t have that option, go for the Knights that don’t have the crazy high invul saves if you can.

      • Trantatus August 1, 2018 12:07 am #

        Knight-killing units for Tyranids! ha, good one

        • Chris August 1, 2018 1:29 am #

          …and therein lies the problem, not all armies seem to have access to the same quality of tools for dealing with knights.

          20 Pages of hand-wringing but no real answers for tyranids:

          http://thetyranidhive.proboards.com/thread/55624/deal-new-knights?page=19

          • Reecius
            Reecius August 1, 2018 7:36 am
            #

            Nids can melee them do death (which is the best way to deal with them) and yo uhave tons of Mortal Wounds, Hive Guard, etc. which all work quite well.

        • Donthemagnificent August 1, 2018 1:54 am #

          Did I miss where hive guard became untakable?

          • Blightstar August 1, 2018 3:53 am
            #

            Sure they wreck tanks but that 3++ becomes real problem they really cant push through quickly enough.

          • Trantatus August 1, 2018 4:35 am
            #

            300 pt anti tank unit = 4 damage to a Knight. 8 damage if you up that cost to 2 CP a turn.

            TYRANID’S KNIGHT KILLER STRIDES FORTH

        • Reecius
          Reecius August 1, 2018 7:36 am #

          Melee, my friend. Melee =)

  4. agent x July 31, 2018 8:06 am #

    A scandal free event (ecj and his complaints aside) was much needed for the hobby since this seems to be the first big event pushing clocks

    I had the stream on in the background while i was working and picked up only 2 rules issue that chat got active for

    1-wobbly model building fight came up during brandons game with ogryn i think

    2-during geoffs match there was much debate whether the dead custodes giving bonus attacks counted player turn or battle turn

    2a-there was chatter about the knight d6 mortal wound explosion being rolled before range (2d6) but geoff let it go noting intent. people in chat half listening latched on to his comment about nobody would do that if they talked outside in the hallway

    good games and very entertaining

    appreciate the quick turn around and commentary

    • Reecius
      Reecius July 31, 2018 8:36 am #

      Yeah, it was nice to have a nice, smooth event.

      1.) It really wasn’t WMS honestly, there was room for the model to be placed. They were asking about unit coherency which is 6″ vertical so there really was no issue.

      2.) I’ll let Geoff answer that one.

      2a.) so long as players communicate intent on those roles, it’s all good even if out of order.

      Yeah, we had some really awesome games! That game with Brandon and Daniel was so exciting to watch.

    • WestRider July 31, 2018 2:35 pm #

      I have no idea what the context is for #2, but in 8th ed, “Turn” is always “Player Turn”. There are no longer “Game Turns” or “Battle Turns”, one of each Player’s Turns combines to make up a “Battle Round”, specifically to avoid this sort of confusion.

  5. Dbiesto July 31, 2018 9:48 am #

    Knight heavy lists are super powerful this edition. Add to that how powerful feel no pain based high toughness armies are, and you have a top tier power list. I was pretty surprised that Chaos got a knight upgrade and that they could take the new ones also. For people scratching their heads at the Death Guard terminators: they are way more powerful than most people realize. T5 with a 2+ 5++ and fnp. Add to that A stratagem called cloud of flies and you will never be able to target them for only 1 CP in Hoosens list. The bub axes make them str 5 -2, the 2 flails get d3 attacks at +2 str at -2 for 2 each and each model potentially attacks 6 times and each damage of 2 carries over to other models so potentially can kill 12 models each flail against hordes. Add to that his daemon prince who allows friendly death guard within 7″ to reroll all wound rolls, The daemon prince can either miasma them for -1 to hit, blades of put to add 1 to wound rolls and 7+ deal mortal wound in addition to regular damage, or put vitality to add 1 to str and t making. Add to that he can switch between those powers for 1 cp, and can VOLTW them for +1 to wound.

    • iNcontroL July 31, 2018 10:17 am #

      They have a 4++ according to Don 🙂 Correct yes?

  6. Trantatus August 1, 2018 12:01 am #

    Did Geoff say the Liu Kang “Get Over Here”? Damn man you were a presenter for the MKX prereleases you gotta know better than that 😀

  7. Trantatus August 1, 2018 12:05 am #

    Did Geoff say the Liu Kang “Get over here”? Damn man you were a presenter for the MKX prelease you gotta know better than that haha 😀

    • iNcontroL August 1, 2018 7:39 am #

      well, I said “get over here fingers” not the scorpion GET OVER HERE call that we all know 🙂 I still may have been wrong but I sure as hell don’t confuse scorpion with anyone.

  8. Mirko Trio August 1, 2018 1:04 am #

    Talking about DA “that -1 to hit on that thing was so annoying” said the eldar player
    Love you, but sincerily: F**k you
    Ahahahahahah

    • iNcontroL August 1, 2018 7:39 am #

      haha yeah.. I didn’t catch that but I usually am quick to represent the “ELDAR???” crowd.

    • abusepuppy August 1, 2018 8:21 am #

      Wasn’t the Eldar player what said it. 😛

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