Warhammer Tactics: Powering Up Your Power Armor

The crew from over at Nights at the Game Table have a great tactics article for us! For more tactics articles, check out our Tactics Corner.

Welcome to Warhammer Tactics! Today, we’re going to be looking at the standard Space Marine Codex, and some tips and tactics for every chapter in the book to help you get the most out of your army!

So, as many of you know, Space Marines are generally considered to not be in a great place at the moment. This is largely a true statement, unfortunately. However, the army isn’t without some fangs either, if you know how to coax them out. And today, that’s exactly what we are going to do, no matter what chapter you play!

Nothing here will probably win at say, LVO or NOVA, but it will definitely improve your game locally. If you just want to read up on your particular chapter, we’ve alphabetized the entries so finding your chapter is a cinch!

Black Templars

First, I would like to counter a piece of advice I often see for Black Templars, which is to run bikes for the purpose of advancing up the board and charging headfirst into the enemy. There’s a couple issues with this. First, screens can knock this strategy dead, depending on the army in question. Two, bikes aren’t really a melee unit. They’re mobile fire support, and advancing removes that capability completely. Now mind you, including bikes for fire support in a BT list can be 100% valid. Just don’t go trying to chainsword your way to victory with bikes.

That all being said, Black Templars are the premier “Rhino Rush” army. Rhinos interact well with many characters available to BT. Helbrecht and Grimaldius immediately come to mind, of course. In addition, their trait naturally interacts well with transports. The ability to hop out of a Rhino in a 360 arc, move, and charge with a guaranteed re-roll means that you’re looking at an ability to realistically tag any unit that’s within 20” of your transport!

As for what goes into these rhinos, I’m personally a big fan of Vanguard Veterans. 10 Vets with power swords/axes and chainswords comes in quite cheaply at 200-210points, and with buffs from both special characters and a lieutenant, they become S5, re rolling all to hit, getting bonus attacks on 6+, and re rolling 1’s to wound too.

Although these guys aren’t quite as good as say, Death Company or Berzerkers, they pack plenty of hurt, and they’re mobile enough to get dug in by turn 2 in almost any game. Plus, even if you go very character heavy, you still have around 900-1000 points left for fire support, Scouts, other toys, whatever you feel like really after taking 3 rhinos with these bad boys in them.

Crimson Fists

Crimson Fists are the melee counterpart to Imperial Fists, no doubt about it. Many melee Marine units struggle to dish out enough attacks to really make an impact, but Kantor’s +1 attack aura solves that problem. The only issues are how to get Kantor into melee, and what to pair him with.

You could always opt for a Rhino Rush style army, but I believe Black Templars do that better overall. Instead, you should look at a Stormraven Gunship with Kantor, a Lieutenant, 10 Vanguard Vets with axes, and optionally a Redemptor Dreadnought. With dreadnought in tow this bomb will be almost half of a 2000 point list, but you should tear a massive hole in your opppnent’s battle line. Just make sure you bring lots of screen clear with the rest of your points to guarantee you get in! You can of course tag out what you put on the Stormraven, but Vanguard Vets are one of the most efficient melee models available to Space Marines, and you can’t put Primaris in a Stormraven which thins your options.

Overall, Crimson Fists are a tad narrow as an army, but that’s okay. Maximize the use you get out of Kantor, and you can still put up results!

Imperial Fists

The yellow brothers to the Crimson Fists, the Imperial Fists are the yin to the Crimson Fists yang. The army wants to be a gunline, since everything they do revolves around fire support.

Unfortunately, Imperial Fists struggle for direction past this. Their stratagem is very weak, their relic is awkward (you can’t cast an extra power, you just know an extra power), and their warlord trait is conditional.

Luckily, I’ve got an answer for all of you Imperial Fist players, and it’s actually a pretty good one: the Aegis Defense Line. No, really, hear me out. The Aegis can’t be removed, and practically hands out cover for free to your entire army with careful positioning. This helps give you an advantage since your infantry will be in cover and your opponent can’t claim it against you. Moreover, cover is a big deal for any power armored army, since going from a 3+ to a 2+ cuts your damage suffered in half. Obviously AP cuts these numbers, but it makes you almost invincible against small arms.

We then push this into overdrive with the Architect of War warlord trait. Basically, it lets us treat AP-1 as 0 as long as we are in cover. Getting to take a 2+ save against most dedicated anti infantry guns means your army is almost impossible to shift for a lot of players. Just watch out for Tau, they can be a huge problem for you. You can put whatever infantry units you like behind the Defense Line, but I like Devastators and Hellblasters. They have a lot of reach, and Hellblasters are fairly mobile when it’s time to move up. The best part about this combination is it’s also extremely fluffy, and effective!

Iron Hands

Iron Hands are, by design, the most straightforward legion. Their trait is boardwide static damage reduction, their warlord trait is a minor self buff, their stratagem is decent but works identically on most vehicles, and their relic is competing with a thunder hammer. So, what can we do?

Well, the one thing we can do is leverage our durability, and push it as high as we can go. So, like Imperial Fists, an Aegis Defense Line is a good start. The ability to easily get cover in every game makes our army far more durable, which gets compounded on by our trait. We can then push this further with an Apothecary to start healing and recovering models.

We can also include a Redemptor Dreadnought to our army. Redemptors are reasonably durable already, and adding a 6+ FNP buys us just a few extra wounds to make them even harder to kill.

We can round this out with your choice of an infantry firebase and the Banner of the Emperor’s Ascendent to punish your opponent for pushing through your defenses. The specifics here are a little mutable, and you have plenty of points left over to include whatever toys you like, but the basic idea is always the same. You want to make yourself as difficult and annoying to kill as possible for your opponent.

Raven Guard

In stark contrast from many of the chapters we’ve discussed so far, Raven Guard are easily the most flexible chapter out of the 8. Their trait and stratagem are of at least some use to every unit in the codex. As if that wasn’t enough, they have a disgustingly efficient and borderline mandatory special character in Kayvaan Shrike. His melee weapons are extremely threatening, he makes jump infantry charges from Reserves somewhat reliable, and he clocks in at a cheap 150 points.

It really is hard to go wrong with Raven Guard. They have a low skill floor and a high skill ceiling, making them a solid choice. So, since they’re so open ended, I will instead be talking about a couple of units that get lost in the mix often, but 100% deserve their piece of the spotlight in almost every RG list: Vanguard Vets, and Aggressors.

You’ve already seen me mention Vanguard Vets quite a bit if you’ve read everything so far, and that’s not a coincidence. These guys make fantastic infantry killers with their ability to take power weapons and a chainsword, much like Berzerkers, and they synergize with many chapters in the game. They can also optionally take packs, which makes them fantastic for Raven Guard. If you have the points, they can jump in with Shrike and have a decent chance of making the charge, courtesy of Shrike’s ability. Alternatively you can save a couple points and spend a command point and infiltrate them in.

I really like axes, myself, but power swords aren’t a bad choice either.

Moving on to the real star of the Raven Guard show, we have Aggressors. Aggressors are a fantastic unit that really just struggle with getting up close. The Raven Guard stratagem solves that issue, and as a 2 for 1 special, Aggressors are fantastic at clearing out infantry to land charges with your Jump Infantry. They also benefit from the -1 to be hit outside of 12, which won’t come up often because of their short range but it can sometimes save their life. Those of you following the competitive scene will know that a couple RG lists with lots of Aggressors are creeping up, and for good reason. If you haven’t yet, try a decent sized unit out. They’re a total game changer out of RG.

Salamanders

Salamanders are the king of consistency, as their trait will afford you tons of free re rolls over a game. This leads Salamanders to naturally gravitate toward lots of small units to maximize the value of their trait, and that’s understandable. However, this also leads them to more or less work with everything in the book equally, making them a rather open ended army.

So, instead of focusing on their trait, let’s focus on their stratagem, Flamecraft. This provides +1 to wound with flame weapons. Take a unit of speeders with double heavy flamers and you’re dealing some damage. That’s 21 auto hits at S5,+1 to wound, ap-1 on a very mobile platform! You can push this even higher by getting Vulkan near your target, usually with the help of a Rhino, that way you RR to wound and have +1 to wound! This is surprisingly damaging and clocks in at only 312, a very affordable price. You can get Vulkan up the board with a Rhino, or if you feel like splurging, a Redeemer. Just make sure you also bring an assault unit with him, and you’re good to go.

Ultramarines

Ultramarines are one of, if not the most popular Chapter, mostly because of Robute Guilliman. Honestly, any Ultramarine list immediately becomes better with his inclusion. But, some players don’t want to have to use G Man, so let’s focus on some other decent things you can get through the Ultramarines.

Ultras have a fantastic trait, reducing your losses from Morale, and all but guaranteeing that your army can’t truly get tied up in melee. This naturally leads them to be a medium-long range army, and a gunline of course. But, there’s a couple units that really shine with Ultras: the Redemptor Dreadnought, and Bikes.

Redemptors bring a respectable amount of anti infantry fire power at a reasonable price, on a reasonably durable platform. Combine this with the ability to fall back and still unload into whatever is trying to tie you up, and you get a fairly efficient unit. Plus, Redemptors are no slouch in melee, meaning this unit is always effective while alive!

Bikes on the other hand, have a bit more abstract value. Normally, their main value is being mobile units that can rapidly bring a few special weapons where you need them to be. Ultras however, benefit from taking large units of bikes. 6 or 7 a unit is what you should be looking for. The reason for this is a combination of their trait, and some competitive tactics.

Obviously, the trait allows you to fall back and shoot. We can pair this with charging into melee, and piling in/consolidating into a unit we didn’t charge and boxing them in, preventing the enemy from falling back and shooting our bikes to death.

Then, you fall back on your own turn, and unload a second round of firepower while hopefully getting to a safe position to do this again. It’s the ultimate hit and run tactic, and it can put up surprising results for Ultras since they can continue to shoot every turn, no matter what. Just make sure you try to fallback so you’re hidden from most of the enemy army, while also having a target to shoot at!

White Scars

White Scars used to be one of, if not the most competitive Marine armies. Although they have taken a bit of a quality dip, they’re still very solid.

The chapter has always been known for its Bikes, and that’s exactly what we’re going to delve into today!

White Scars have improved advance ranges, and more importantly, the ability to fall back and charge. We can combine this with Bikes and get the ultimate harassing unit. By spending 1CP on their stratagem, Born In The Saddle, we can fly up

the board and charge into the enemy. Like with Ultras, you’ll want to pile in/consolidate into a second unit that you didn’t charge, and prevent them from falling back. Next turn, you can fall back a whopping 14”, charge another enemy unit, and do it again. While you’re doing that, you can Born In The Saddle a second Bike unit, and start tying up two units at the same time, disrupting the enemies entire army.

Now, you pair it with your choice of an assault element, and you can drop a hammer on your opponent while he’s stunned in place! The results can be very nasty, depending on your opponent’s list! You can add in Kor’sarro Khan to this, and really tack on the damage.

 

Well, that wraps it up! This was quite a long one if you decided to read up on every chapter, but it’s worth it. The ideas presented here should give you some inspiration to put your Space Marines back on the table if you’ve been struggling, and hopefully start winning games like the Poster Boys of the 41st Millenium should! Check back next week, as we talk about the ITC and what you can do to optimize yourself for an ITC game or event!

 

And remember, Frontline Gaming sells gaming products at a discount, every day in their webcart!

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34 Responses to “Warhammer Tactics: Powering Up Your Power Armor”

  1. redmapa July 24, 2018 11:39 am #

    Glad Im not the only one that thinks that the Black Templar tactic encourages you to throw as many units into combat as possible to overwhelm the enemy in assaults, they dont have any teeth in combat but you can gang up on units to win through attrition.

    That being said I still think they are on the low end of power in their own codex and that the FAQ didnt do them any favors as now its either Rhino Rush or castle up with minimum assault elements.

    • Reecius
      Reecius July 24, 2018 1:03 pm #

      Yeah, dog piling on your opponent with 3+ bodies does work but as you noted, their basic stats and rules make it tougher for them to do.

  2. Arkimides July 24, 2018 11:48 am #

    Great article! I know the Wolves codex hasn’t come out yet but would you have any tips for them as they stand now?

    • Reecius
      Reecius July 24, 2018 1:04 pm #

      One trick we like here is to use their Outflank strat with something like a full unit of Aggressors and then also drop down a Rune Priest to buff them with psychic defense. They weather the storm and then plow in to their opponent. Works well and is quite a bit of fun, too!

    • Richard Kruse July 24, 2018 5:49 pm #

      Hey Arkimedes, main author here. I’ll be honest, I’m actually not a Space Marine Player, but a Chaos player.

      So, I can’t say I know too much about Space Wolves. I would have to sit down and read everything they have available and do some thinking on it.

  3. Rynn July 24, 2018 3:12 pm #

    Not to be the guy that disagrees with an article to be edgy… although stating that feels like it gets me half way there…
    Anyway…
    I’ve been struggling on my good old Crimson Fists for a while now, mostly playing Catachan these days, but i really disagree on the choice of the Stormraven bomb over the Rhino spread.
    I tried the Stormravens and found they were too little threat saturation especially with a dread on board. Too many eggs in one basket as it were.
    I read an ANCIENT White Dwarf I have from a million years ago and there’s a battle report with veteran fists on foot with chainswords and bolt pistols as the front line, this got me thinking..
    If you are going to stick with an army and play it through it’s ups and downs you need to access their strengths, when they are not great they usually have less so you need to saturate your list (avoiding the word spam) with the units that have these strengths.
    For the fists this means Pedros +1 attack and Bolter Drill.
    So with these in mind I like the idea of loading up Rhinos with TTSS vets or Power Fist + Chainsword vets and stick Pedro in the centre, he neuters the -1 to hit debuff and gives them an extra attack with the most powerful melee weapons in the codex!
    The Rhinos will also have the -1 to be hit as you will inevitably be looking for a turn 2 charge so pop smoke turn 1. Hopefully they can start behind LoS terrain and have the movement to get most of the way there in your turn before they are reduced to molten slag.

    Accessing Bolter Drill might be a bit controversial but hear me out.
    Dare i say.. a drop pod of Sternguard? Bolter Drill needs to be accessed some how!
    Storm of Fire, Bolter Drill and Masterful Marksmanship with Cap and Lt auras means a lot of stuff… 20 shots wounding generating more hits and +1 to wound means 30% are AP-3.
    Sorry for the long winded comment just wanted to give my favourite chapter some additional insight from an amateur, i could probably write an article but i doubt anyone wants to read up on how to make the below average into punchy average! Please correct me if I am wrong.
    These choices are also quite fluffy as The Fists like to take a lot of 1st company vets into battle now according to the lore. Thanks for the article, it got my creativity flowing again for the good old Crimson Fists!

    • Reecius
      Reecius July 24, 2018 5:03 pm #

      Some good points, Rynn. I was having REALLY good luck with Issodon+Deep Striking Sternguard all with Special Issue Bolters. Every single game those guys did work for me in conjunction with their strat and some re-roll buffs.

    • Richard Kruse July 24, 2018 5:45 pm #

      Hey Rynn, I’m the main author of this, thought I would reply to what you’re saying piece meal.

      I did briefly touch on the Rhino Rush strategy with Crimson Fists (saying I felt it was more of a Black Templars thing, which I do), but it’s not like it’s an invalid choice either.

      Regarding Bolter Drill, it’s just a rather underwhelming stratagem for the most part. It does pair well with Sternguard, but the issue with them (and the the Vanguard Vets loaded to the brim with expensive melee weapons) is that it’s just a lot of investment for what you get IMO. Those models still die like regular marines to small arms fire, and that’s awkward on ~30 point models.

      The Sternguard in a drop pod on the other hand are subject to deep strike rules and you also have to pay almost an extra 100 points to do it, and you get one squad.
      I would concur with Reecius regarding Issodon and him bringing along a bunch of Sternguard. That has some mileage to it!

      Overall, this article was an attempt to help Marine players from every chapter to get some inspiration to get their models on the table with a new list that does decently. And if it got your creativity following, that’s the real objective. I’m glad to hear it!

      • Rob Butcher July 24, 2018 9:35 pm #

        Sorry I don’t recognise your name from the first four months of videos. How much have you played ? I stopped watching as their were only two players who knew the rules and armies were mismatched/ unpainted. (Yes, i was one of many who stopped watching when overwatch was fired at 3+ by BA).

        The Imperial Fists relic is the pistol, what powers are you thinking of? IM don’t need to bring additional terrain with them to win IF there’s enough terrain on the board. (That’s key in 8th edition. The best i’ve seen was at NOVA last year, or the GW events.) I’ve also adapted my list from being vehicle based to including more units from Reece’s Brigade – scouts, scout bikes, sternguard in drop pod, Vanguard Vets and jump-pack captains. That gives a lot of mobility to get objectives OR isolate units for killing. I’m not convinced about a single stormraven, so am saving for two.

        “Rhino rush” works well for chaos melee troops, but rarely works for SM. the metal boxes are too vulnerable AND SM don’t get enough attacks / buffs compared to Berserkers.

        Now the final questions – why is a Chaos player writing an article about SM ? How does this quick overview add to the tactical library on this site ?

        • Richard Kruse July 25, 2018 6:04 am #

          Nights has certainly come a long, LONG way lol. I’m out of California, so I mostly work with them with things on the internet.

          Hrhm, it seems I must have read the wrong relic when reviewing everything. I apologize for that. It’s a lot of info to keep straight. The pistol is also not really helpful towards army focus.

          Regarding terrain, yes tournaments will have lots of terrain to block LOS, and sometimes you’ll be able to claim cover with it as well. The aegis is an easy and cheap way to guarantee that, and since your durability shoots through the roof against a lot of armies with that 2+ save, even against ap-1, it’s important to have. Plus, this was written to help out people playing locally, not tournaments. At a tournament, you probably would’t bring IF at all, making the discussion moot.

          I usually would agree regarding rhino rush being iffy with marines in general. The Black Templar set up I described adds about 22% more attacks to every unit, and bumping them up to S5 makes the hits far more impactful. It’s not Death Company or Berzerkers by any means, but it still packs some threat.

          As to how a Chaos player ended up doing something SM related, I do articles for Nights, touching on subjects the base asks for. They wanted SM, so I did a bunch of research and came up with some ideas, and here we are.
          As to what it adds, that depends. If you’re looking to take Black Templars or Imperial Fists to win LVO 2019, this probably won’t help too much.

          But if you’re someone looking to find a way where you feel good about playing one of these less powerful chapters and not feel instantly out classed, this is a good start.

      • Rynn July 25, 2018 5:48 am #

        Hi Richard,
        Absolutely fair enough assessment on the melee weapons and marines dying easily.
        I’m just trying to work within the boundaries of the codex.
        Maybe the Stormraven is the only way to go then, take 3 and load them up with vets with power axes and Pedro. Then see who makes it. With knights being in the meta now the fully upgraded stormraven seems pretty sweet with all the anti tank.
        After that I don’t really know where to take my list if I’m honest.
        Anyway, thanks again for the article and your reply 🙂
        Reecius I played something similar to your brigade list and loved it. Lias and friends reminded me of my beloved skyhammer formation from 7th and the scout bikes were awesome even dealing mortal wounds at times!

        • Richard Kruse July 25, 2018 6:06 am #

          My pleasure Rynn! I’m not going to lie, Crimson Fists were something I really struggled with. They’re kind of a confused chapter, talking strictly rules.

          They follow Imperial Fists (gunline), but then their character wants the army to be in melee, and that’s just an awkward spot to be. I don’t know if I would go all in with 3 ravens and vets, but I suppose you could! The idea was to have the rest of your army be some kind of gunline, but you could totally play around with 3 ravens.

          • Rynn July 25, 2018 3:17 pm
            #

            yeah i just went 3 for solid anti armour platforms vs the knight lists and also it will look cool as hell. Will fill it out with scouts.
            I know what you mean, they are so torn… Specifically Pedro. Does he hang back giving RR all misses or go forward and max his +1A ability??
            If he gunlines i may as well take Ultras and G man but i got fed up of playing my Fists as Ultras last edition so i’m just going to force an average assault list backed up by 3 ravens killing all armour and removing small screens.
            I hope we get an FAQ to apply chapter tactics to vehicles and Fists can reroll failed wounds against vehicles.

  4. Kartr July 24, 2018 10:50 pm #

    As a person who only plays Space Marines (my collection isn’t done and I refuse to start another army till it is) I’m very glad to see this article!

    Correction: the IF relic is the Spartan which is 12″ Pistol 2, S4 Ap -1 D2. It can be really fun in a casual game :p

    I’ve been leaning towards the power maul. +2 strength and ap -1 turns a Marine into an Assault Cannon profile. Ap -2 on the ax is nice, but a lot of things either have a crappy save (guard screens, cultists, etc) where the extra ap doesn’t help, but wounding on 2s is great (especially with Lt support). In the other end of the spectrum are the units with a solid 3++ or 4++which is going to negate most of your ap bonus anyway. A lot of the second type of units seem to be T5 (Bullgryn, necron wraith, etc.) where you’ll only be wounding on 4s with an ax, unlike the maul which will let you wound on 3s. The only time I think the ax is better than the mail is when you are fighting other MEQ, since you will wound on 3s and force saves on 5+.

    What are your thoughts on the Imperial Defense Line? +1ld in it and infantry behind (as well as in) gain the benefit of cover. I’ve been toying with it for my Fists and it makes them surprisingly durable, especially with the IF warlord trait as it basically shuts down Tau, Primaris and anything else that looks like a heavy bolter.

    Pedro is a beast, but what I’ve found works decent for me, is to run a gunline for the first couple of turns and then charge out to swamp people in melee. I do think that if you’re running the CF chapter, at least one veteran Sgt or character needs a power fist so they can use the chapter relic flat 3 damage no minus to hit.

    Biggest problem I face with IF or CF is mobility and scoring. They do well castled up and blasting units off the board, but they break down once they un-castle to grab objectives and if they have to move to gain Los to an advancing enemy. Marines just lack the durability and adaptability to be worth their points out side of the castle.

    • Richard Kruse July 25, 2018 6:12 am #

      Hey Kartr, yeah you’re right about the relic. Somehow when I was taking notes to get started on this I recorded the wrong relic somehow. It’s a very minor mistake, and I apologize for that.

      Regarding the power maul, it’s been mathed out to hell, but basically against chaff the sword is more helpful and against elites the axe is more helpful. It’s actually pretty specific, but the maul is mathmatically rarely the best choice.

      The IDF is more or less a more expensive version of the Aegis, and if you want the bonus leadership I suppose it’s fine. I’m not familiar with it’s size, so if it offers more room to work with that’s possible another mark in it’s favor. I’m not sold on this set up being good against Tau, however. Granted, it’s not like the Aegis suggestion I had works well against Tau either, but either way, Tau can easily remove your cover or get high volumes of high ap fire (usually both) and just shred right through you. Depends on what they bring though, I suppose.

      Yeah, CF are definitely a really awkward chapter ruleswise. I like that idea conceptually, but in execution most units worthy of being in a gunline are horrible in melee, and +1 attack usually isn’t enough to solve that. But if it’s been working for you, great! And yes, they’re a castle army, and that’s awkward in a game about taking and holding board positions.

      • Kartr July 25, 2018 12:33 pm #

        I understand that the maul is not as good as the sword against chaff, nor as good against elites as the ax. What I think it does, is give you a more TAC option. Chaff still gets a crap save instead of just dying, but you wound on 2s and elites don’t have their save degraded as much l, but they’re still being wounded on 3s instead of 4s or 5s.

        I think that’s one of the problems that Space Marines have right now: they can optimize for almost any foe, but they struggle when trying to kit for all comers because they can’t take enough of any specialization to kill things before they die.

        I’m not sure exactly how the Aegis works, but the IDL not only has an actual trench line that units go in, but infantry behind it (no range restriction) also get the cover bonus. So you can put jump Vanguard behind it and they’d still get the cover save. Which would let you put Pedro in the gun line and then jump the melee guys over to charge in with him.

        Thanks, it’s not been working to well since knights got their codex. I’m looking at doing combat squads with double melta going into rhino’s for 4 melta MSU pushing forward while the other 5 with a Las Cannon sit back with Devs in a gunline. Hopefully that will let me put enough pressure up the field that the gunline can do its work.

        • WestRider July 25, 2018 8:51 pm #

          The IDL doesn’t read like that to me. I see how it can, but the way the commas break up the sentence, I’m pretty sure both clauses are supposed are supposed to be required conditions for the Unit to gain Cover, not either. So Units behind, but not in, the trench would not gain Cover, and Units that were in, but not behind (due to enfilade and/or plunging fire) also would not gain Cover.

          As an additional note, following your reading, the rules for Barricades (and the ADL) would provide Cover to any Infantry within 1″, even if they were in front of the Barricade from the firing Unit’s perspective. The sentence structure is identical, the only difference is the first requirement being “within 1″” rather than “inside”.

  5. Eugene July 24, 2018 10:57 pm #

    Speeders can’t take two heavy flamers, nor any other duplicate weapon choices. It was possible in 7ed, no more in 8ed.

    • Reecius
      Reecius July 25, 2018 8:36 am #

      Correct me if I am wrong but you can still take those options via the index.

      • Kartr July 25, 2018 12:40 pm #

        Reece, I thought you had to use the newest dataslate which would replace the index version and its options?

        Techmarines for example: the index dataslate lets them take a C-beam, codex doesn’t do they can’t. But the Techmarine on a bike doesn’t have a dataslate in the codex so he still uses the Index version which let’s him take a C-beam. So the only way you can get a C-beam Techmarine is if you run the bike version…?

        • David Bowles July 25, 2018 4:35 pm #

          Pretty sure the current rule is that you can go to the index for wargear, too. You just have to pay the index price.

          • Kartr July 25, 2018 8:08 pm
            #

            Found the Index/Codex flow chart in the designer commentary. You use the Codex dataslate, but can use Index wargear options using the Codex profile and points (or updated points) unless the Index option doesn’t have a profile in the Codex or points in the Codex at which point you use the Index points or profile.

  6. Anggul July 25, 2018 12:28 am #

    Isn’t the point in bikers with Black Templars to tie up enemy shooting, not direct damage output?

    I don’t know, I haven’t played marines much. It’s great to see articles like this though. I think too many people make assumptions about what works and what doesn’t, or just don’t bother to put much thought into how certain factions can work and just write simplistic straightforward lists.

    8th is such a brave new world where it’s a waste to congregate around a handful of ‘meta’ builds. I have no doubt that there are loads of good army builds that just haven’t been thought of yet, because so many of us are still stuck in the 7th edition mindset. Articles like this prompt our thought processes and get us thinking about clever plans beyond ‘take the stuff that shoots good’. Thanks for doing it.

    • Richard Kruse July 25, 2018 6:15 am #

      I’ve often seen it argued for them to get in and start punching things right away, and that’s more of what I was addressing. Using them to tie units up is the right way to go about it, along with some mobile fire support.

      Well, I do imagine there’s probably at least some unfound tech for competitions, but I don’t think it’s a lot personally. However, thanks for the feed back and words of encouragement. I’m glad you enjoyed it!

  7. Maeglin July 25, 2018 9:22 am #

    Regarding your recommendation for Crimson Fists; Storm Ravens can’t carry Redemptors unfortunately so it would be stuck walking up the field.
    The CF relic fist is also too good to not take. Flat 3 damage with no penalty to hit. Even on a Lieutenant it’ll do work especially combined with Kantor.

    • David Bowles July 25, 2018 10:36 am #

      You can stuff a DW redemptor into the teleportarium, however. Probably the only way to actually use one. Since it’s got no invuln and is only T7.

    • Paul Bowles July 25, 2018 10:38 am #

      You can stuff a DW Redemptor in the teleportarium, however. Probably the best way to use the thing.

    • Rynn July 25, 2018 3:26 pm #

      The relic is brilliant! I use it on the Captain with jump pack and shield, it’s better than thunder hammer and cheaper!

  8. Petey Pab
    Petey Pab July 25, 2018 9:41 am #

    Enjoyed the article, we need more content like this.

    I did have a few nitpicks though. I feel like you could have given Thunderfire Cannons and Scout Bikers at least an honorable mention.

    White Scars love scout bikers because of their ability to move 22 inches, shoot 22 bolter shots into something, and then charge another thing. All for 77 points and 1 CP.

    The Thunderfire Cannon is just amazing. In pure Marine lists it is almost a must take in every list.

    • Reecius
      Reecius July 25, 2018 11:01 am #

      Yeah, Scout Bikers and the T-Fire are two of the best units available to Marines, totally agree.

      • Richard Kruse July 25, 2018 3:28 pm #

        I do agree that Scout Bikes and Thunderfires are very good as well!
        However, that’s far more “general Marine tactics” than “some Chapter specific info”. Although I suppose I could have fit the Scout Bikes into a suggest for White Scars, maybe even Ultras, since they’re even better at what I suggested for them.

        The same reasoning would have applied to include the Thunderfire for IF.

        But yeah, no they’re fantastic units.

  9. David Bowles July 25, 2018 10:34 am #

    Iron hands can’t stack FNP anymore as per the FAQ. Probably the candidate for worst chapter now, as their tactic burns a lot of time in rolling, with very few results.

    • Richard Kruse July 25, 2018 3:30 pm #

      Yeah, I don’t disagree. I really struggled to come up with any kind of suggestion for IH, along with a couple of other chapters, since frankly better options exist. But, there are dedicated IH players who love their chapter, and I wanted to at least give them some direction.

      • David Bowles July 25, 2018 4:29 pm #

        I gotta be honest; i’m having some flashbacks back to 2nd ed here. Yes, that dates me.

        I don’t understand why GW put in so many weapons that are crazy good vs marines, but provide no efficient way to remove 120 guardsmen.

        Given enough chaff, my blood angels autolose because i can’t physically get to artillery line. Even with . I know GE wants to sell models, but guardsmen are super frustrating.

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