Custodes at Annihilation: The Weekender. Custodes go Undefeated!

Hey everyone, Geoff “iNcontroL” Robinson here to talk about my experience taking the Adeptus Custodes to my first tourney. Check the Tactics Corner for more great articles and guides!

Before we get into the list I have to talk about this tourney.. it was a bit different. Taking place in the gorgeous Portland, Oregon it only makes sense that this tourney marches to the beat of it’s own drum. Five rounds of Open War cards for missions, twist cards, ruse cards AND ITC secondaries (wat). Well, it made for about as odd of a tourney as you can get but it was darn fun. I played one game of practice for this with my buddy Anthony who proudly uses Deathwatch (he likes to complain) but we quickly learned this tourney was going to be FUNNY but also.. probably good for my Custodes? We shall see…
Custodes battallion:
  • HQ: Shield-Captain on dawn eagle bike (misericordia, salvo) 179
  • HQ: Shield-Captain on dawn eagle bike (misericordia, salvo) 179
  • HQ: Shield-Captain on dawn eagle bike (misericordia, salvo) 179
  • Troop: 3x Custodian Guard (Spears) 156
  • Troop: 3x Custodian Guard (Spears) 156
  • Troop: 3x Custodian Guard (Spears) 156
  • Fast: 5x Vertus Praetors (Hurricane Bolters) 450
Guard Battallion:
  • HQ: Company Commander (warlord=Grand Strategist) 30
  • HQ: Company Commander (relic=kurov’s aquila) 30
  • Troop: Infantry squad (mortar) 45
  • Troop: Infantry squad (mortar) 45
  • Troop: Infantry squad (mortar) 45
  • Heavy: Heavy weapon’s team (mortar) 33
  • Heavy: Heavy weapon’s team (mortar) 33
Imperium Vanguard:
  • HQ: Primaris Psycher (staff) 46
  • Elite: Culexus 85
  • Elite: Eversor 70
  • Elite: Calladus 75
Total: 1992
Some Notes:
This is a very similar list to what I started with when I first began my journey sexually experi- .. playing the golden men. I love the 3 salvos as they give me unique tools to deal with bigger targets. With this list I have a LOT of command points due to the relic/warlord trait so I can reroll the D6 on the melta missiles reliably getting me some juicy hits. Hurricane bolters are still the top performers with how accurate custodes are but when I had ONLY hurricane bolters I found myself lacking some choices. I also dropped the second culexus so I can make the salvos fit and used the extra points to put in another mortar team and misericordia’s. I will say the little swords have been underwhelming. They don’t reroll to wound and with less damage/ap they are a severe after thought. Only add them if you have extra points in my opinion! This list PLAYS FAST.. I finished all my games well ahead of time. This list IS FUN. All of them feel like heroes and they both deny scoring (save for head hunter..) and they score well (who wants to shoot at a culexus?). The Custodes bikes DIE EVERY TIME but usually they drag everyone down with them OR they murder faces too hard and thus are allowed to live in the golden light of the Emprah.
Game 1: Blood angels, 2 Shield Captains on bikes
First game of the day we get an interesting mission: Kill the courier. My opponent selects his Shield Captain on bike with a 3++ and then deep deploys him in his backfield. I select my Culexus because I’m a try hard sonofabitch and I wanted to win. He gets first turn and does what a LOT of people do.. try and kill Custodes. Unfortunately trying to kill Custodian Guard sitting in terrain is about as fun as trying to choke out a dolphin who ain’t having it. His Devastators, Death Company and his assortment of Scouts, Librarians and what not.. they all couldn’t do it. He also realized in trying to kill them he made himself available for the natural selection of my counter assault. As the dust settled he was very, very dead. His courier was the last model and it valiantly assaulted 2 of my own Shield Captains and the entire Vertus Praetor squad. This was this young man’s first tourney and he said he had fun.. his army was a beautiful army painted to look Aztecan. He would go on to have a great tourney and hopefully we hooked another victim into the WH40k tourney scene clutches!
Custodes win max points.
Game 2: Grey Knights with an Imperium detachment of Celestine, Seraphim and some guard AND Blood Angels
My second game was vs an awesome gal who has been around the Pacific Northwest as a tourney player for awhile and yet our paths have never crossed so I was very excited to play her. She has the typical Grey Knight double bash bros of Grand Masters in baby carriages, strike teams with falchions, guard mortar squads and Celestine with friends. She also took a squad of death company backed by mephiston. The mission was a fun one where you place 6 objectives but roll a dice and the first one to roll a “6” becomes THE objective. Winner controls that at the end of turn 5. Fun! As luck would have it my opponent won the roll to go first AND had the objective safely tucked in her corner. That said she made the mistake of assaulting my Vertus Praetor squad placed aggressively in the middle of the table with her Death Company rocking a bunch of swords but no power weapons. I was also able to use the “Swooping assault” (or whatever) strategem and counter charge Mephiston who was raging out with my nearby Shield Captain who summarily executed the vampire before he could swing. Two combats later and all of the Death Company was gone. Things were looking good for the Custodes as my Assassins were running down guardsmen and my backfield seemed secure. With so many of my bikes unscathed ALL the Grey Knights that came in couldn’t focus on anything else. Grand Master Dread Knight’s pack a punch and certainly did the lion’s share of work for her but in the end the mobility of my list meant that she was running out of models and the objective was now squarely in my possession. The mission also had an odd “twist” in that we had to divvy up our list into 3 new “detachments” and they could come in 1 at a time each turn but off of any board edge. This meant her Celestine squad with scary inferno pistols couldn’t really do much and ended up getting destroyed before having much impact. A very bloody game but I was able to deny a few key powers like Gate of Infinity with my denial stratagem and it meant she just couldn’t get around the table the way she wanted. I will say, my Guard detachment farmed up a good 10+ extra command points so I was rerolling like a mad dog AND my Callidus made her eat up the last of her command points by turn 2. Really potent 1, 2 punch!
Custodes win max points
Game 3: Death Guard, Nurgle, Bloodletter Bomb(s)
This game was myself vs a good friend in Ben Cromwell. He’s a fellow Team Zero Comp teammate and a 2x USA representative at the ETC. He, like myself, took a list that wasn’t geared for this tourney but rather was a normal ITC tourney trying to make it’s way in this odd odd tourney. More than any other game this game’s mission.. won me the game. By a lot. Ben was running 6 plague burst crawlers and 2 Bloodletter bombs. There were other elements to his list but this is what brought home the bacon. The mission? Comet. So at turn 3 the sole objective lands somewhere on the table and whoever controls it at the end of turn 5 wins.. simple enough. The twist? Nightfight. Every gun is range ’12 and on turn two and onward it extends ‘6 then ’12 but only on a 4+ LOL. So poor Ben.. couldn’t really shoot for the first 2-3 turns. I mostly murdered his Nurglings and we both wracked up some ITC secondaries until one of us blinked first and dropped in our big hitters (his the Bloodletters, mine the bikes). Ben had the top of the turn so he had to make something work.. he dropped down the bombs and went for it but the Custodes ALWAYS have an answer! The tangle foot grenade stratagem is a Bloodletter bombs worst nightmare. I can only chuck them off my infantry but I have 9 of those suckers and they WANT to fight so they were out there.. one bomb didn’t make it after losing 6 inches on the charge and the other got a short charge off into a guard unit where they then murdalated them. Unfortunately for Ben with all of his elements on the table I dropped down from the golden light of the Emperor himself and rained death and destruction on his diabolical self. Bloodletters cleared and tanks getting tied up (but I think only 1 died the entire game? LOL) he was in a pickle. The game really turned when a shield captain jumped onto his Warlord Daemon Prince, killed him and then tied up two tanks. With no firepower to stop me from controlling the objective he conceded.
Custodes win max points.
Game 4: T’au featuring 3 Commanders, a R’vharna (spelling?), bunch of infantry with Darkstrider/cadre and maybe 15 Stealth Suits? 
One of the nicest dudes I’ve ever played! This guy had a really fun and well painted Tau army. Unfortunately for him.. the game was a bit mean to him. We had 3 objectives that “burn” when the opposing player controls them.. lose all 3 and you die. We ALSO had a single objective that if controlled on the end of your own turn by your opponent also resulted in a loss.. so lots of objectives. Tau at this time didn’t have a codex and he took a somewhat fluffy list with the intent of having fun, looking good and punching you gently in the chest like a playful friend. Well, I took a list that was meant to look sexy (thanks FLG) and punch you through your face and into your brain pan where it then reaches down your spinal column and rips out most of your inner workings. It did that. On turn 1 3 units of Custodian Guard were in combat with at least 1 stealth suit team but mostly 2, the Vertus Praetor unit had charged and killed most of his infantry and all he had was 3 commanders coming in and a R’vharna that had felt the sting of a melta missile doing 5 damage. I burned all 3 objectives and controlled the other on turn 2 and that was that. Despite all this he was a really good sport and is SUPER stoked for the Tau codex.
Custodes win max points.
Game 5: Mitch and his 14 Hellhound Astra Millitarum list that nearly got him top 8 at the LVO.
This was a game I was worried about all tourney long. His list IS NAAAAAAAAASTY. These things chuck out a melta shot (not that scary as they mostly hit on 4’s by being Tallarn) and D6 (roll 2d6 take the highest) flamer shots that are str6 -1 ap 2 damage. But.. that isn’t the scariest part. When these suckers die on a 4+ they do D6 mortal to everything in 6… I HAVE AN ASSAULT ARMY.. yikes. Behind this is some Blood Angel characters with guard getting him a lot of command points and holding down objectives. The list is very much so the 14 Hellhounds that all move 12 and can outflank by the way. Fortunately to decide this tourney we got the most normal deployment and mission type yet. Two progressive objectives, kill points (which get doubled if you kill the Warlord, COOL) and every turn you roll 3d6 on a 6 you pick a unit and do D3 mortal to it (debris is falling from the sky).
Mitch plays a board control game so he spread out and in retrospect probably over-committed to one of my flanks. He deployed almost equally but probably put 5-6 of his tanks (including 3 outflanking) on my left side which had a Shield Captain, infantry squad and a Custodian Guard squad holding 1 of my 2 objectives. The rest of my army was on the other flank castled up in some ruins or arriving via deep strike as assassins OR the bikes with one of my shield captains. To win this game I’d need some luck and some really solid play. As expected my left flank collapsed almost immediately. He dropped D3 mortal on the Shield Captain and then crushed the rest with his tanks. Laughably 2 of my Custodian Guard lived on and continued to play ring around the rosie with 3-4 tanks for the rest of the game. They tied them up, did some wounds but mostly just dodged melta shots and endured fires beyond what should be possible. We both kinda laughed but as the game went on his laughs turned to moans and mine into grins.
The rest of the battle was rough on me. I failed a few charges and the charges I did make would result in his Hellhounds blowing up and doing massive damage (he didn’t fail to blow a single tank up except one later in the game that only had his units within 6). At one point my entirely healthy Shield Captain took all 6 mortal wounds and the unit of bikes took 5 from a single explosion…OUCH. I was paving my way though fighting up the right flank to get closer to his little Company Commander who had Kurov’s Aquila and was a Grant Strategist. Mitch didn’t notice until it was too late but the last few of my bikes got up there and slew the commander with ease. I was also able to butcher his Blood Angel champion who had another relic and now I squarely controlled his objective.
It was here that the game began to distance itself in my favor. Wracking up some progressives I gave myself a few points of buffer with my 1-2 Guard on the left flank surviving and controlling that objective. I was running low on units though as my assassins fought valiantly but with so many flamers out there it was only a matter of time. The Callidus tried to tie up a tank and did so for a couple but then was burnt to a crisp. The Eversor was deftly making hidden charges from behind terrain to grab a tank and slow them down.. he also made a number of his 4++ saves and did what he could. Even his explosion when he eventually died did wounds to two tanks. The speed of Mitch’s Hellhounds are terrifying though.. realizing his commitment the remaining 5-6 tanks on my half of the table started to make their way to my guard detachment but it was too late. With the lone Spear Guardian holding the left flank and my bike force holding his home objective for 2 turns I was able to secure primary. We straight tied on secondaries and when we added up kill points Mitch had me by a LOT but with the added bonus of me slaying his warlord and mine remaining intact I secured the win on that front as well. Mitch was a fantastic opponent and I was very proud to do battle with a list/general I respected greatly and overcome the odds against me.
Custodes win 32 points of 33
In conclusion I had a high score in paint (I MEAN LOOK AT THESE.. the FLG Paint Studio did a fantastic job on them!) and I had a high score in sports (I tried to be on my best behavior.. but also with Custodes playing so fast I almost never had to push my opponent to play faster!) I was able to come away from the tourney the champion! I won a really cool golden statue of a space marine thanks to Aaron Albert (CaptainA here on FLG) and we earned some money for charity (the tourney was raising money for food in Oregon). This next weekend I am flying to Arizona to compete there with our very own Frankie and our pal James. I won’t change a thing in my list. I had SO MUCH FUN, played really fast and I won! These are all the things I can ask for from my list. Now, this tourney had some wonky missions and I definitely think overall it favored me nearly each time but when the game did feel normal I didn’t feel like I was ever at severe risk. I think it’s critical to keep your big bike unit in reserve so it can always decide where to fight and it can shoot up some stuff. Shield Captains are amazing but they are prone to a bad situation costing them everything. If you make a mistake with them they are gone. Curse of the elite army.. which means you need a LOT of practice if you plan on winning with Custodes. Finally, the Assassin detachment might actually be as fun as the damn Custodes are. I kid you not.. WOW! Maybe it’s because my other armies are Tyranids or Mechanicus where we got some fun stuff but not really as.. character filled as I feel like the Assassins are? When my Eversor goes ham and drops 2-3 dudes with his pistol then reliably makes a 10 inch charge to get into the underbelly of my opponent I start making sword sounds and grinning maniacly.
Hope you guys enjoyed the writeup! I’m a co-host on Pablo’s Chapter Tactics and I’ve started doing Codex reviews as an official reviewer for GW that you can see here. Come check out my stuff and let me know what you think in the comments! I will be reading!

And remember, Frontline Gaming sells gaming products at a discount, every day in their webcart!



About Reecius

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53 Responses to “Custodes at Annihilation: The Weekender. Custodes go Undefeated!”

  1. Yakhunter March 18, 2018 12:27 am #

    This is wicked news! Love seeing my favorite golden boys perform. Great write-up! I am taking a Custodes/BA/Guard List to a RTT in a couple weeks, but every time I look at your list I have to stop myself from mirroring it and bringing it instead as it just looks like a ton of fun.

  2. Don Tomaso March 18, 2018 12:44 am #

    Custodes undefeated?
    Always fun to read about custodes batreps but the topic is kind of misleading.

    It´s custodes + large soup = undefeated, not custodes.

    Even worse since only “two” units, bikes – bike hqs and the minimum tax of guardians were used in the custodes soup part.

    Try the tourney again using pure custodes with other things then bikes and see how well you´ll do.

    Custodes are strong BUT the codex needs some tweeks. The jetbikes are a little to cheap while the wardens and teminators are a little to expensive and the land raider and dread are ridiculously overcosted to the point of almost not even being playable with the correspondent stratgem in regular army sizes.

    The result = everyone and their grandmothers use jetbikes in one or another configuration as parts of their imperial soups and kick ass.

    The logical conclusion will be a jetbike nerf down the line without a needed buff to the other units, especially the fails that are the LR and contemptor.
    This means custodes will sink instead of being re tweeked into a more varied force that still has the potential to kick ass and more then jetbikes and guardian tax being taken as soup allies.

    • Sossen March 18, 2018 1:04 am #

      1500 pts of Custodes isn’t a Custodes list? Gatekeeping at its finest.

      • Don Tomaso March 18, 2018 1:22 am #

        500p non custodes in a soup army is pure custodes.

        Straw grasping at its finest.

        • AbusePuppy March 18, 2018 6:57 am #

          “No true Irishman” at its finest.

          Just because you, personally, don’t like armies that use any amount of allies doesn’t make it not a Custodes list. It is a Custodes army by the definition of ITC and, I would guess, by the definition of most third-party observers as well as by GW itself.

        • rvd1ofakind March 18, 2018 8:02 am #

          As much as I hate mixed faction armies, you can’t really count Assassins as mixed because that’s literally the only thing they can do. And 307pts is passable.

          Still tired of seeing Guardmech, guardstodes, space guards, dark guards, blood guards, grey guards, sister guards, space guards…

    • Ujayim March 18, 2018 4:06 am #

      Jetbikes are not too cheap. They’re the only normal unit in the codex, point wise. Everything else is too expensive.

      Your post is close to rdv1 levels of whining.

      • rvd1ofakind March 18, 2018 5:42 am #

        Close, but no cigar. This is how it’s done:

        Reece, your kneecaps look like pancakes. Your face looks like cinemon. And most of all – all greater daemons are hot garbage!

        • Ujayim March 18, 2018 7:26 am #


          I’m glad you can take the joke well.

        • Reecius March 21, 2018 10:09 pm #

          lolol, pancake knees? How dare you, sir!!! Pistols at 10 paces =P

      • Don Tomaso March 18, 2018 12:19 pm #

        Whining? Maybe you have a hard time understanding what you read. Instead of debating with reasons of your own you call what I write “almost” whining. Check.

        Anyway, jetbikes are the only thing taken as allies in non cust soups for a reason, they are very good. Allarus are not taken, wardens are not taken, pretty much only various derivates of jetbikes.

        Try giving me your reasons for jetbikes being “ok” and not a bit to cheap as well as reasons that landraiders, wardens and allarus are not to expensive.

        • Ujayim March 18, 2018 12:39 pm #

          I didn’t say you were almost whining. You’re absolutely whining. Rvd1 level whining is on a level on its own, though.

          You’ve shown, based on what you’ve written, you genuinely have no interest in being reasonable. Why would I bother trying to give you reasons for anything? Your mind is made up and you’re already shouting into the void. Enjoy it, alone.

          • Don Tomaso March 19, 2018 9:29 am

            Ah so you cant use reasoning and weasel away with your limp tail between you legs changing subject instead because you have nada.
            Good to know I dont have to waste my time and take you seriously in the future.

          • Ujayim March 19, 2018 10:48 am

            *screeching into the void intensifies*

        • bonesaww666 March 18, 2018 6:21 pm #

          I e actually really came to be quite fond of the Wardens and the Allarus, by cutting down on Commanders and maxing out on bodies I have been having some great success with Custodes.

          Wardens can carry axes, Allarus can carry axes, they are like a rape train without breaks once they hit the enemies lines.

          Allarus are amazing, I take a unit of 7, if it suits me they can become 7 Units of one or I keep them together slaughtering their way through my enemies.

          • Don Tomaso March 20, 2018 12:26 am

            True but why then are we seldom seeing anything buy variants of jetbikes as soup allies??

            “*screeching into the void intensifies*”

            Maybe you start to froth a little less if I tell you a little secret?
            You ARE very special no matter what anyone says!

            Now of you go kiddo and find a new straw to grasp.

      • NinetyNineNo March 19, 2018 1:53 pm #

        Compared to similar elite infanty like Deathshroud and Paladins, Custodian Guard are both cheaper and better.

  3. Don Tomaso March 18, 2018 12:46 am #

    Btw, nice to finally see someone else use salvos on the jetbikes. I thought I was the only one.
    Imo salvos are better then hurricanes (in a pure custodes army).

    Nice read!

  4. Shas’O March 18, 2018 2:30 am #

    Glad you liked the open war cards! A lot of tournaments around here use them, but to make them fair (unlike your game vs nurgle) you draw 3 of each and each player vetos one. Also, non of the tournaments do ruse cards… those can be insanely strong! It’s really nice to have the variety of games open war brings!

  5. rvd1ofakind March 18, 2018 5:43 am #

    I love that the assassins are doing well. They’re probably the most interesting units in the game. Too bad vindicare has 1 shot for 90 pts, but hey, they can’t all be winners

    • WestRider March 18, 2018 10:36 am #

      I love Assassins in 8th. I actually ran 18 of them at one point, but just a couple or even one can be a lot of fun. They do weird wacky stuff that nothing else can do, and they actually do it reasonably efficiently now.

  6. GhostValley March 18, 2018 7:44 am #

    Geoff – great balance of humour and play by play. The right mix of length and detail. Can’t wait to read more bat reps. Congratulations as well.

  7. bogalubov March 18, 2018 8:12 am #

    Thanks for the read, it’s good to see the custodes being good on the table top as well as having great looking models.

    That 14 hellhound list is more annoying than any soup combination. To me it’s the gold standard of how ridiculous 8th edition can be in terms of list building. I don’t see how that’s fun to build or play.

    • AngryPanda March 19, 2018 4:32 am #

      That isnt just 8the fault though. The moment they went “1 CAD? No take how many you want!” in 7the the flood gates were open. I guess it let’s them sell way more of the same models.

  8. Don Tomaso March 18, 2018 12:22 pm #

    True. I had high hopes that crap like 14 hellhound armies wouldnt be allowed in 8th but hey, I bet those lists dont get many people willing to face them outside tournaments where you are basically forced to face waac s**t like this.

    Maybe things like comp scores ought to be introduced again. If itc already use house rules to smooth over 8:ed flaws like alpha strikes and terrain then why not?

    • abusepuppy March 19, 2018 5:56 am #

      Because comp scores don’t solve the problem that you have imagined into being, that’s why not. That’s why Australia and Europe have almost universally abandoned them at this point, despite them being heavily present in editions past. They don’t fix the “problem,” and the problem isn’t even real.

      YOU don’t like the Hellhound army, and that’s your right. But that doesn’t mean that everyone else despises it and thinks it deserves to be excised from the game; for a good general, the list is most certainly beatable (as Geoff demonstrated) and it struggles badly against a number of armies. And very, very few players have the models to field it, or are interesting in doing so.

      In short, you saw a single example of an army you’ve never played before and knew nothing about, extrapolated from your own non-experience with it that it was ruining the game for everyone, and decided that we needed to completely overhaul the game to fix the nonexistent problem from an uncommon list that has hardly even registered on the meta.

  9. iNcontroL March 19, 2018 7:27 am #

    Thanks for reading guys! I will definitely be posting more bat reps (hell, we even won this weekend as well in AZ!) but I DO find it funny how each time someone comes in and gets all hot and bothered that my list isn’t pure Custodes (only around 1400 points of them lol). I’m not going to apologize or feel bad that I have assassins, guard, admech or other elements in my lists with Custodes. Frankly, if you are playing pure Custodes you go ahead and forge that narrative but don’t complain to me when you aren’t taking down tourneys with them. The entire codex has rules and language asking that you strongly consider allying them to other forces.. I’d go ahead and put down your rolled up newspaper and step off that tiny, tiny flaccid soapbox you are perched on and just move it along.


    • Ujayim March 19, 2018 7:38 am #

      I’ll have you know my soapbox is not only fully erected and up to code, but it’s fully prepare to handle a large load.

    • Anggul March 20, 2018 8:27 am #

      It’s more lore-accurate to have Guard supporting the elites anyway.

  10. Don Tomaso March 19, 2018 9:37 am #

    “YOU don’t like the Hellhound army”

    Funny. I have this feeling that if a thousand players were asked in a poll weather they would like or dislike having to face lists like the 14-hellhounds the results would be quite one sided.

    Regarding made up problems as well as putting words in my mouth. I never claimed everybody hates lists like these but I love your subtle attempt at telling me what I must be thinking about everyone elses play-preferences without really knowing while you simultaneously assume YOU know better (that players have no problems facing 14-hellhounds ists) while not really knowing yourself.

    No polls have been made afaik but common sense dictates that more people then not wouldnt really like having to face 7ed riptide spam lists or 14 hellhounds…or the previous conscript spam etc.

    • abusepuppy March 19, 2018 3:03 pm #

      >the results would be quite one sided.

      Well, seeing as I was actually at the tournament and talked to a number of the players there about the list, I feel I probably have a better idea how they felt about it than you do. And the impression I got was generally “that looks like a scary list to play, and that guy is crazy for owning that many Hellhounds but he’s a cool dude” not “argh I can’t believe they allow those kinds of lists this game is stupid.” So no, no polls were created and we can’t know for absolute certain, but I’m gonna go out on a limb and say that you’re probably drastically overestimating the issues most people would have with that army based on your own biases.

      Your “common sense” might dictate something to you, but I think it’s pretty clear from the responses you get every time you post that other people’s common sense varies pretty widely from your own.

      • Don Tomaso March 20, 2018 12:23 am #

        Dont make me laugh. You were at a tournament where competitive players gather and now you claim that you talked with these and claim they represent the wide cut of all kinds of players. Talk about ridiculous.

        Its like me taking about I dont know..something I have knowledge about like how stock traders usually feel about this and that risk assessment while using only the top earners based on what they said on a trading convention for the richest.

        Of course, silly me, the average ITC, LVO, etc tourney participant who willingly travels to, spends money and time on and knowingly shows up to face of all kinds of insane conscrips-spam, 14-hellhounds, guilliman+flyers lists are of the the SAME opinion about facing said that the vast majority of common, friendly, in-garage-with-pizza players.

        You DO know that you are not the only one attending and talking to tournament players right? I may not go to the superawesome grand waac events like you but more like the “normal” players crowd of a hundred who pretty much all loathe things like 14-hellhounds.

        “but I’m gonna go out on a limb and say that you’re probably drastically overestimating the issues most people would have with that army based on your own biases.”

        Guess what, based on your own drastically underestimated bias that you dont even bother to conceal (read above) I would gladly go out on a limb myself and say that the majority of regular players, you know, not the tiny percentage who take out vacation days from work, plan family absence long in advance, pay good money for flights from far away and book hotel rooms to explicitly be among two hundred-ish fellow minded players who all are geared to face the latest suspected 14-hellhound or 120 conscripts meta do NOT represent the wide, common gamer opinion on how “fun” it is to have to face a 14-hellhound or 120 conscripts drudgery.

        I respect your opinion on Tau since you have better knowledge on them then me (hence why I sought out your opinion on them earlier) and you have convinced me that comp is bad based on your recent arguments but this? LOL
        Give me a break!

        • abusepuppy March 20, 2018 2:46 am #

          >superawesome grand waac events
          >tournament used 1/3 battle points, 1/3 sportsmanship, 1/3 painting to determine winner

          Okay mang.

          • Don Tomaso March 20, 2018 3:00 pm

            Talked to some waac tournament players – knows what all hobbyist players feel and think better then someone being among hobbyists for almost 20 years.

            Okay mang.

            Literally reeks of tournement elitism.

            Besides, I used your reasoning and asked a few Germans about how they think the average american I know better how an average US Joe on the street thinks then a real American does himself.

            “1/3 sportsmanship”

            Yeah, we all know how many articles across the boards the “latest” tournemant caused regarding sportmanship.

            Waac till you puke, recorded in real time and everything but hey, at least they know better then we how the normal garage player feels about facing 14 hellhounds or gulliman flyer spam.

        • The Traitor March 20, 2018 4:25 am #

          I don’t consider myself a hardcore tournament player (I go to one or two competitive events a year) and would actually like to face the 14 hellhound list. I do like competitive games and that list does seem challenging, but it is not the typical list you see everywhere, which makes it okay. I mean, I have only read about it a couple of times so if it is doing well in the US competitive scene it must have something to do with the player’s skill, if the list itself was so broken you would see it repeated every, like Dark Reaper spam or Guilliman and friends. And playing against good players with uncommon list is always fun, at least for me.

          • Don Tomaso March 20, 2018 3:09 pm

            Once or so just for the curiosity of it to see how screwed up 8th detachments can get while being fully prepared t get your fluffy army tabled then yeah, why not but then again it is not what i am talking about.

            Then there are things like 7ed taudar riptide spam that I wouldnt want to “try” out even under gunpoint. But hey, most “garage hobbyists” would love it, the percentage fraction of tournament waac-ers no doubt said so back then too.

        • Anggul March 20, 2018 8:24 am #

          But the guys playing in their garage aren’t going to play a list like that anyway… so it’s irrelevant.

  11. Kas March 20, 2018 4:53 am #

    Isn’t the Callidus 80p, bringing the list to 1997?

    Or did I miss an errata?

    • iNcontroL March 20, 2018 6:19 pm #

      fixed it! Thankfully I was under points >_<

  12. Dom Tomaso March 20, 2018 11:20 am #

    I love to eat human feces.

    • Don Tomaso March 21, 2018 2:39 am #

      As for trolling goes, this one is just sad. C´mmon, you can do better, that is if you actually possess more then half a brain and arent unemployed, dwelling in your single parents apartment.

      Or as iNcontroL so adequately asked:
      “Hey Dom,

      Why are you posting so angry?”

      This is what you need to do ok?
      At least try getting a custom avatar pic, save the avatar I have and use the picture, if possible, as your own custom avatar. That way people might actually mistake your posts for mine at a quick glance.
      That could when I think of it, make for some fun mistakes worthy of some laughs.

      Till then, enjoy your feces section eight 🙂

  13. iNcontroL March 20, 2018 6:19 pm #

    Hey Don,

    Why are you posting so angry? It’s a bunch of guys with dolls talking about dolls and we all really really like them. I assume you do too. Want to chill out? Maybe, just maybe.. try and be a force of positive contribution and not someone screeching around shouting everyone down?

    • Don Tomaso March 21, 2018 2:31 am #

      Because my plastic miniature wargaming dolls are stronger then your dolls 😛

      What did I say that was “so” angry btw? Did I call someone something terribly insulting or wish that someones house burn down or threaten someones person?
      Follow up question: how come only I am kept to this standard?

      Nah. But seriously, try to be positive in here? Why should I when all you get for your suggestions (validated by the last CA) to improve the flaws in 8th and its certain units in order to make the edition B E T T E R is ridicule, deliberate cherrypicking or silence because the geedub salesmen cannot openly admit to anything being bad and in need of improvement.

      No wonder I amuse myself with a little pointless trolling in here on occasion. It´s quite fun and I´we already said that earlier.
      Look in the thread next door, the obviously translucent bait is still not taken..I wonder why 😛
      I was thinking I´d have me some fun when the gw salesman and waac tournament expert inevitably crush me by telling me how very wrong I and pretty much the entire collective consensus of other mayor boards are but damn, maybe they didnt fell for the bait. Sometimes when you dont have any arguments in your everything-is-perfectly-good bubble staying silent is the best course I guess.

      Nope, I leave the positive non-baiting and non trolling for other big boards where people dont pretend its raining (at best) or ridicule or wishing harm (at worst..but hey, I´m the angry one right? lol) when you have the audacity to suggest (pre chapter aprooved) things such as primaris plasma interceptors are overpriced and ought to be lowered in cost, that some sm “templates” are so overpriced it is painful to watch or that the gk need a completely new codex with reasons for it to back.

      You know, elsewhere where people actually dare discuss these things freely under moderated forms and actual topic threads are created and maintained regarding the betterment of for example underpowered units/rules or what things should be covered in chapter aprooved and w h y and where logic, math and reasoning is actually encouraged and replied to using the same rules of debate, one can be polite, fun, constructive and help debating a consensus on things that ought to be taken up in CAs without ridicule.
      Over there trolling isnt needed but then again, nor do you get as much fun as in here chasing geedub salesmen and biased waac tournament experts.

      In summary, in here it´s just FUN, poking at the occasional bias, delusion and hypocricy and some people just swallow hook, sink and play along making it even more fun!
      (I kind of miss that trolling lawyer on his high horse, that dude was awesome:) )
      Or if you want a wargaming analogy, in here is my ork army where all the scrap painting is thrown into, elsewhere where you actually have active debates of reason, are my main effort armies where 10-20h per mini is put into with the proper feedback of logic making it all worth the time.

      • Ujayim March 21, 2018 3:49 am #

        Me me big boy

        • Don Tomaso March 21, 2018 10:55 pm #

          Did the minecraft session end already or did mom pull the plug because homework reasons?


      • Sossen March 21, 2018 6:29 am #

        So you are telling me that this website is nothing like other “mayor boards” like Dakkadakka, the ultimate echo chamber? Thank god.

        • Don Tomaso March 21, 2018 10:26 pm #

          Nope. Thank god over there they at least have testicles.

          Keep sucking up though, I´m sure it will get you far in here.

      • abusepuppy March 21, 2018 7:42 am #

        Hey Don, if every person you talk to says you’re angry, maybe the problem isn’t with them.

        But by all means, please do feel free to go elsewhere. Don’t let us tie you down here, I’m sure the folks over a BoLS and ATT are in dire need of your startling insight.

        • Don Tomaso March 21, 2018 10:42 pm #

          Is this how you avoid further arguments about your own elitist bias regarding the whole world just loooving to face 14 hellhounds?
          You have talked with some waac players in a waac-meta tournament remember? You surely know better about everything then anyone else.

          But nope, bols and att is pretty much on pair with you frothing fanboys in here. Why on earth would I wast my time in there, they arent even fun and dont stick around when cought cooking in their own bias?
          In here at least I get to have some occasional fun poking at your little poorly hidden hypocricy.

          So no att for me but nice try champ. “Maybe ” there are other places where topics actually are debated and encouraged rather then met by the usual tail-between-legs lemming opinions like in here. I am going out on a limb here guessing you never heard of places like for example BnC right?
          Dangerous board, really, they often dont agree with your personal elitism so must be a bad, childish and immature place. Plus, the usual cheerleading feces-eaters (look at his post above) you get your hugs from are moderated away on those other boards.

          Why dont you give it a try? Those other boards would be in dire need of your startling delusions of self importance. You could single handedly convince thousands of hobbyists that they are stoopid for not loving to face the latest waac lists because of those incredible sportmanship-arguments you no doubt will whip out.
          Or maybe they are not elitist enough for you?
          If so, mea culpa champ!

      • Venkarel March 21, 2018 11:35 am #

        Hey Don,
        I personally think we need the naysayer and curmudgeons in the game. I do wish everyone would tone down the hyperbole on both sides as well as non-pertinent and/or anadotical evidence. Also the first step to any debate is to define terms, I often think people are talking past each other.

        • Don Tomaso March 21, 2018 10:53 pm #

          Thankyou, I agree and no, I am not hiding my own bias and ridiculous lack of arguments like the champ above so bravely does while others courageously throw feces-comments in his support.

          But you know how it is, I am a weather man, when it rains I tell it to your face, when the sun shines I do so too.

          Not my fault the fragile lemmings in here hate the messenger when it pours only wanting to hear about the sunshine.

          Or in other words when in Rome do as the Romans, if I am met by poorly hidden bias wrapped in so retarded arguments that I actually dont know weather to laugh or cry then I do as the Romans. Its quite fun.

          You call it naysayer, sure, I call it devils advocate with the purpose of dragging forth flaws of the system into the daylight in a forum filled with self denial that there exists none. Dont blame the messenger, blame the fragile elitists without arguments and geedub salesmen in here instead.

          It´s always fun to bash deluded self importance and their hangers on, why do you think I pop in here now and then?
          I´m not in a habit of wasting my time unless there is at lest some fun in it for me 😛

          • Venkarel March 22, 2018 8:42 am

            Just to be clear Don I do not agree or appreciate any trolling. I too often play the devil advocate, and have learned that you often catch more fly’s with honey, than with vinegar. Meaning even when I present a well reasoned valid rebuttal no one seems to listen when I insult them personally in some way. On top of that, people seem to remember that I slung arrows and spears at them in the past and even though I am not of that intent now, and have something important and relevant to say, they just tune me out for some reason. I do like it when you present a well reasoned counter-argument or provide a critique that is pointed and pertinent.

  14. Don Tomaso March 22, 2018 10:37 pm #

    You are of course correct and I agree (no kidding). Just that I keep the honey elsewhere where it is appreciated. In here, oh well, among all the feces-comments and people-love-waac-because-I-say-so retardation, I go full fun with the bias and hypocricy of the delusionals in here.

    Simply put I dont care to throw pearls to the swine in here. I´m polite and pleasant elsewhere where naysayer debates are actually encouraged instead of ridiculed away by biased salesmen and waac fanboys.

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