Chapter Approved Information: Matched Play Updated!

Chapter Approved is on the way and GW has been sharing some information on what to expect!

Big changes on the way!

Additionally, Command re-rolls can no longer be used to affect Mission dice rolls. These are rolls that are used to determine who gets the first turn, whether the game continues after turn 5, and so on. Understrength units can only be taken in Auxiliary Support Detachments, while the rules on targeting characters have received a very slight change in order to prevent, for want of a better word, shenanigans involving line of sight manipulation.

Chapter Approved is your essential gaming supplement, packed with new missions, rules and even hobby tips designed to make your games of Warhammer 40,000 as awesome as they can possibly be. You’ll find the creative, experimental spirit of classic Warhammer publications like Rogue Trader and the previous incarnation of Chapter Approved combined with the polish and streamlining you’ve come to expect from the latest edition of Warhammer 40,000. We’ll be previewing just some of what you can expect to find in your copy throughout the week, continuing with a look at some of the new faction rules:

These are the factions featured in Chapter Approved with new rules and goodies! Below are some examples of the cool benefits coming there way.

Chapter Approved is your essential gaming supplement, packed with new missions, rules and even hobby tips designed to make your games of Warhammer 40,000 as awesome as they can possibly be. You’ll find the creative, experimental spirit of classic Warhammer publications like Rogue Trader and the previous incarnation of Chapter Approved combined with the polish and streamlining you’ve come to expect from the latest edition of Warhammer 40,000. We’ll be previewing just some of what you can expect to find in your copy throughout this week, starting with a look at the return of a much-loved feature from Rogue Trader – vehicle design rules!

In the first teaser they talk about the return of VDR (Vehicle Design Rules) and the ability to built a custom Land Raider! That’s a lot of fun for Narrative and Open play games. They also discuss the return of Apocalpyse!

They also discuss the introduction of 12 new missions as well.

What are you most excited for in Chapter Approved?


And remember, Frontline Gaming sells gaming products at a discount, every day in their webcart!



About Reecius

The fearless leader of the intrepid group of gamers gone retailers at Frontline Gaming!

135 Responses to “Chapter Approved Information: Matched Play Updated!”

  1. Dakkath November 21, 2017 12:52 am

    What I’m most looking forward to is the codex-less armies getting a rebalance to make them more comparable to those who do.

    What I now have mixed feelings about is Apocalypse coming back. If it goes back to being a separate thing again, GREAT. If it gets shoved into normal games of 40k again like they did in 7th, DO NOT WANT.

    • Wayniac November 22, 2017 9:09 am

      It already is part of normal games when they added flyers and superheavies to non-Apocalypse 40k games.

  2. Shas’O November 21, 2017 2:21 am

    Pumped to get at least one Tau sept!

    Also looking forward for a smite spam fix.

  3. CWDub November 21, 2017 6:28 am


    Cyclonic Explosion??
    Every unit suffers D3 mortal wounds, units with more than 10 models suffer D6 mortal wounds??!

    Does that sound like an enjoyable way for a game that takes several hours to end? You win and lose based on a bucket of random rolls.
    What the actual f%£k.

    • CWDub November 21, 2017 6:30 am

      Sorry, you were asking ‘What are you most excited for in Chapter Approved?’

      Finding out that my local TOs won’t think it’s omgmegacoolgrimdark to include rules like the above in events. 😀

      • rvd1ofakind November 21, 2017 6:52 am

        Ah, all those big ultra competitive Narrative/Open play tournaments… Yes…
        Let me guess… you didn’t read that the mission is NOT for matched play?

    • Ytook November 21, 2017 7:31 am

      That’s an option for apocalypse, not matched play.

    • Threllen November 21, 2017 9:03 am

      How’s that reading comp going? It’s an *apocalypse* battle… not a matched play battle. If you’re bringing thousands upon thousands of points to apocalypse and are worried about losing a few to a virus bomb… you’re probably playing the wrong game mode.

    • CWDub November 21, 2017 11:13 am

      Hmmm. I didn’t post that.

      • Threllen November 22, 2017 10:18 am

        Probably still the bug where it enters someone else’s name when you try to make a comment. I always make sure to overwrite it with my own username but not everyone does…

  4. The Traitor November 21, 2017 8:01 am

    Actually the two missions revealed for matched play look interesting and will hopefully balance some issues, however I hope they at least keep some of the old ones. Also cant’t wait to see rules for non-codex armies!

    • Threllen November 21, 2017 9:05 am

      The 12 new matched play missions (6 eternal / 6 maelstrom) are just that… new. You can play the new missions or you can play the old ones. Up to you and your buddies to decide which set you want to roll on.

      Or you could grab a 24 sided die and roll between all the new and old EW/maelstrom missions xD

      • Dakkath November 21, 2017 11:13 pm

        Give some love to the d12, man

  5. Wayniac November 21, 2017 9:11 am

    I am hoping besides limiting smite spam they do something to limit taking multiple detachments just for the bonuses. Something like making it so you have to fill out a detachment before taking another one, to curb crap where you take min choices in a Battalion with ABC trait and then take a Spearhead with XYZ trait to maximize its advantages.

    • Cephalobeard November 21, 2017 9:29 am

      Smite is what keeps super heavies and blobs from dominating things~

      You’re requesting the rock be removed so scissors become stronger.

      • Shas’O November 21, 2017 9:35 am

        Nobody is complaining about smite. People are complaining about spamming smite. Tons of super cheap psykers pumping out full power smites is not fun to play against and not good for the game.

        • Vercingatorix November 21, 2017 9:53 am

          Yeah, “super cheap” being the important part of that phrase. Fix the price and all of a sudden smites not so big a deal. Renegade had a 1 forgeworld unit limit so there was no malefic lord spam. Just the bump from 30 to 40 points for guard psychers was enough that there was only 6 or 7 in a list. Orks have the best smite in the game and you don’t see them relying on it to win.
          I think we’re all agreeing with each other here but I think it’s important to say something because now GW is paying attention.

          • abusepuppy November 22, 2017 10:49 am

            “Only six or seven” of a particular unit is still an awful lot by most people’s estimation.

            Also, you actually do see Orks relying on their Smites to do a lot of work. The top-ranked Ork player at Warzone was running like four of them.

          • Val Heffelfinger November 23, 2017 2:30 am

            Can confirm: relied on it to win.

            Also, the only Battlepoints gt winning ork list that I know of contained at least 7 weirdboyz.

            (Attack-x GT)

          • NinetyNineNo November 23, 2017 5:20 am

            Were Primaris Psykers ever 30pts? I don’t recall that being the case. Malefic Lords getting nerfed to the shadow realm, but there’s still Primaris Psykers and Spiritseers. Once those are done with, there will be no sub-60pt Smiters, which should be enough to clear the air. Even if I’d prefer they take another look at Psychic Focus.

        • Cephalobeard November 21, 2017 11:26 am

          Sure. The issue is 45pt Psykers with full smite. I, as a Daemon player, resent the idea of my psykers that cost 78pts being nerfed into Oblivion because of 30pt Malefic Lords and 45pt Imperial psykers doing the same thing for half the cost.

          I get your point, we just need to be specific as you were when speaking about it, so we’re having an honest conversation.

          • Threllen November 22, 2017 10:18 am

            They’ve already started to fix this. See today’s post about Malefic lords jumping up to 80!!! points.

            Honestly that should be the start and end of the “smite spam” discussion. Smite itself is good, but not overpowered. Marine psykers that typically cost 100+ points are not that efficient at just spamming D3 mortal wounds per turn at the closest unit.

            The problem is when you have units that cost 30 pts and can do it.

  6. Requizen
    Requizen November 21, 2017 9:30 am

    Still no new info for Necrons. Release can’t come fast enough but also I’m wary of preordering until I see more.

    • Blight November 21, 2017 2:41 pm

      Warlord Trait- Reduce damage inflicted on your Warlord by 1 with a minimum of 1.
      Relic- 1 time per battle at the end of movement phase, remove the bearer of the relic and one unit within 3″ and set them up anywhere on the battlefield out side of 9″ away from enemy models
      1. 2CP a Canoptek unit at the beginning of your turn gains Reanimation protocols until end of turn
      2. 2CP re-roll reanimation protocol rolls of 1 this turn.

  7. Vercingatorix November 21, 2017 10:14 am

    Poor orks. Spend a command point for a less than 5% increase in shooting! If I was chaos I could spend 2 for 100% increase in shooting. So basically they have an ability which is 20x better. Awesome…

    This doesn’t even go into the fact that so much of defense is now based around -1 to hit which makes ork shooting half as effective.

    I hope orks get a “always hit on 6s” rule to give shooting a chance.

    • Nightman November 21, 2017 11:26 am

      If you consider orks are bad at math, the strat is kinda fluffy… 🙂

    • Martin November 21, 2017 12:33 pm

      Yeah I can’t believe they thought that would be an encouraging Ork stratagem to showcase. Hopefully they are major beneficiaries of points reductions but I’m not holding my breath.

    • Blight November 21, 2017 2:42 pm

      Warlord Trait- Add 1 to characters strength
      Relic- Range and Type: Melee S: +2, AP2, D3 Wound rolls of 6+ inflict D3 mortal wounds instead of normal damage
      1. 1CP 2 infantry units within 2″ of each other and one contains more than 10 models and the other less than 10 models, you may combine them into a single unit for the rest of the game at the end of the movement phase
      2. 1 CP select an Ork infantry or Biker unit before they shoot, each to hit roll of a 6+ gets to immediately shoot again. extra attacks cannot generate additional shots.

      • martin November 21, 2017 3:03 pm

        Well the first stratagem could be interesting in the right situation. The rest of that amounts to nothing much.

    • Threllen November 22, 2017 11:09 am

      You’re not comparing apples to apples.

      It appears you’re discounting the orks BS in their “increase in shooting” since 1/6 is > 5%. So you’re saying it’s only a 5% increase once you factor in the second round of shooting is going to be hitting poorly ( 1/6 * 1/3 ~ 5%)

      But, on the other hand, you just called the CSM a straight 100% increase which means you WERENT factoring in BS in that case…

      You can still complain but at least use the same mathematic principles when you do so.

      Also, not sure if Orks have any way to get +1 To Hit but that also makes this more attractive since it would be proccing 1/3 of the time for only 1 CP.

      • Vercingatorix November 22, 2017 3:25 pm

        Fair enough Threllen, I didn’t do it right. However, it’s still only a very lack luster improvement. Upon second attempt. Like 17%? Still not exactly cheering.

        However the second strategem is great. Mixed units of Meganobs and orks are going to be super tough to deal with.

  8. V1234 November 21, 2017 7:21 pm

    Hey Reece

    I know you can’t give details, but what’s on the horizon for T’au? Anything exciting?

    • Blight November 21, 2017 8:09 pm

      Warlord Traits
      1. re-roll failed to hit rolls if they have if they have not moved this turn
      2. the Warlord can advance and shoot as if it had not moved
      Relic- 1 time per game, you may re-roll a single hit roll, wound roll, or damage roll for the bearer or a unit within 6″. Also each time a stratagem is used by opponent, roll a d6 and if a 6 is rolled, gain 1CP
      Stratagem- use when an enemy unit is hit by a marker light, gain d3+1 markerlight counters next to the unit.

    • Reecius
      Reecius November 22, 2017 10:41 am

      Lots of awesome stuff coming but I cannot disclose anything specific, sorry.

      • V1234 November 22, 2017 12:22 pm

        Aww, I figured as much. Oh well, that is guarantee that some goodness is on the horizon and probably not far off.

  9. AngryPanda November 22, 2017 5:21 am

    Return of the VDR? Well, prove me wrong in the best way guys. This is so very much the opposite of their direction of only allowing exactly the models that exist. What is next, a Genestealer Primus that can take something besides a needle pistol? This is seriously just great and there are so many cool mining vehicles I wanna build for GC.

  10. rvd1ofakind November 22, 2017 9:16 am

    Celestine and Girlyman going up in points – big yay.

    Cawl going up in points, on the other hand, is pretty dumb IF other units aren’t buffed to compensate (or if he only went up by like 10 pts), as AdMech aren’t doing too hot right now. I agree he is a must take and should get nerfed though.

    Malefic Lord overnerf is the dumbest thing I’ve ever seen. What else is there to say. Might as well throw them away. Pick literally any psyker in the game and it’s better now. It’s like when they took out the nerf hammer, they hammered until there was nothing left. They have no weapons. Any daemon herald now: costs less, has a weapon, has a special daemon ability, has an aura, has (mostly) better spells.

    • rvd1ofakind November 22, 2017 9:18 am

      Obviously MLs needed a nerf. But not almost tripple in pts… 50-60 would’ve made them a good mid ground. I’ve seen people yelling at me that even at 40 they’d be overpriced(which I disaggree with). Now at 80, it’s like a joke.

      • The Traitor November 22, 2017 9:34 am

        I think 80 points is more or less what they deserve, though maybe 70 would hace been better. They aren’t supposed to be spammable psykers such as psykana divisions, they’re supposed to be the overlords of a chaos cult, one or maybe max two per army. I do agree though that GW is wielding the nerf hammer the ork way… DA NERF CHOPPA WILL GET YA!!!

        • rvd1ofakind November 22, 2017 9:36 am

          If you think 80 is what they deserve – compare them to heralds and tell me why do MLs deserve to be so much more expensive than the heralds

          • The Traitor November 22, 2017 10:08 am

            Well… They go rambo when they peril, but heralds are probably better. However heralds are supposed to be cheap spammable characters, daemon legions have loads of them, while malefic lords are much more scarce. Don’t think we’ll see them much outside of pure renegade lists, which is probably as it should be.

          • rvd1ofakind November 22, 2017 10:52 am

            People who bring up the perils hulk up clearly show they haven’t got a clue.

            You perils: 1/18. You take the damage from the perils. 4 wounds – D3 mortal wounds = almost dead. 6” movement. This “hulk up” ability is just pure fluff. It maybe stands for about 1 point of value of the model.

          • The Traitor November 22, 2017 12:41 pm

            Yeah, I know, thats why I said heralds are better.

    • CJ November 22, 2017 9:32 am

      True fact. Feeling sorry for the renegade players who now have no worthwhile hqs..

      • Reecius
        Reecius November 22, 2017 10:44 am

        My gosh, the hyperbole is funny.

        The Malefic Lord is still a good buy at 80pts, and was criminally undercosted at 30.

        • rvd1ofakind November 22, 2017 10:46 am

          No. MLs should be 50-60 to be comparable to Heralds. Who now are better in every way.

          • abusepuppy November 22, 2017 10:47 am

            >better in every way

            Like, for example, their invulnerable save?

          • rvd1ofakind November 22, 2017 10:49 am

            Tzeentch has the same. Nurgle has an even better one with the FNP. Next?

          • Reecius
            Reecius November 22, 2017 11:01 am

            Then take Heralds, lol, and don’t gain access to all of the awesome Renegade units that come with the ML. What do you want me to say, here, haha? He’s now 80pts, learn to adjust to playing without the ML crutch. The game is better for the change. If you don’t agree, fine. But it is what it is.

          • Cephalobeard November 22, 2017 11:06 am

            “Crutch” is a bit of an interesting choice of words. I’m sure a large number of players who have used these units, myself included, resent and object to the notion of the Format they play within referring to their choice of army/unit is a “Crutch”, instead of a choice they made due to efficiency.

            The Lord was powerful, too powerful, for it’s points, but the people who used them did not operate under some form of handicap where they relied solely on a single character to propel them to victory.

            I’m more than happy to offer the benefit of a doubt that that was not the intended outcome for the choice of words, just interesting to read the opinion.

          • rvd1ofakind November 22, 2017 11:07 am

            Why do you assume I use/spam them? I do not. I just know that 80 pts for a unit with no CC abilities and 1 smite is too much. The durablity means next to nothing with the Character keyword. The hulk out happens 1/18th of the time and deals D3 mortal wounds. Then you get a 6” movement DP-lite. Wow.

            Balance changes should not make units unuseable. Tell me. Why not 60 pts? Would people spam them at that? Hell no. Will they see any play at 80 pts? Hell no.

          • NinetyNineNo November 23, 2017 5:27 am

            “All of the awesome Renegade units”. Is that why MLs were literally the only R&H unit any tournament ever saw? They deserved the nerf they got, but let’s call a spade a spade here. They were the only saving grace of a poorly written mess of a FW index, and even then only because apparently someone made a typo with their point cost.

        • abusepuppy November 22, 2017 10:47 am

          Eh. I wouldn’t call 80pts for a one-cast psyker a “good” buy, especially if their spells aren’t changed any- right now, Warp Flux is the only one even worth bothering to cast. But on the other hand, it’s not a horrifically bad price for it, either; with T4 and a 4++, he’s pretty tough, and they still have the potential for the budget HQ in the Renegade Commander (unless those got smacked as well.)

          • Reecius
            Reecius November 22, 2017 10:56 am

            Yeah, exactly. He’s reasonable, now. Still clearly the best Renegade HQ, too. He’s just not the idiotic Smite battery he was, and so folks get a little ruffled by it but that model was so unenjoyable in the game as he was.

          • rvd1ofakind November 22, 2017 10:59 am

            Okay, Reecius. We’ll see them LVO results. If MLs are reasonable – we’ll see at least one in a list that does well, right?

          • Reecius
            Reecius November 22, 2017 11:07 am

            Dude, get over it, lol. What’s done is done. GW made a call, here is reality. If you want to use them, do. If you don’t, don’t.

          • rvd1ofakind November 22, 2017 11:09 am

            The problem is – it shows GW has no idea what they’re doing. It’s nothing new to me. Blizzard does the same thing. Something is out of line – they make it unuseable instead of balancing it.

          • Reecius
            Reecius November 22, 2017 11:52 am

            Yeah, dude, you are totally right. They have no idea what they’re doing, just built a game we’re all here talking about that sells many hundreds of millions of dollars a year in product and has millions of fans worldwide, and been in business for over 35 years.

            Yup, you most assuredly hit the nail on the head, no clue what they’re doing. I am sure you would have done it far better! =P

          • NinetyNineNo November 23, 2017 5:30 am

            That’s a pretty immature response, Reece. He’s not saying anything out of line, just that MLs got overnerfed. It’s not by far the only questionable balance choice GW has made in 8th, and there’s no need to get defensive over it. “Let’s see YOU do better!” is not and has never been a valid line of argument, and neither is appeal to popularity.

          • Ytook November 23, 2017 8:58 am

            X doesn’t know what they’re doing because I say so isn’t exactly the most mature of starting points, he argued fine against actual points.

    • Reecius
      Reecius November 22, 2017 10:42 am

      Malefic Lord is not an overnerf at all.

      Chaos Sorcerer is 90pts base + Force Sword at the cheapest, 102. No invul save, but two powers and two denies.

      Malefic Lord is 80pts, has a 4++ and protection from perils.

      More than fair.

      • rvd1ofakind November 22, 2017 10:45 am

        Chaos Sorcerer has access to warptime. Done.

        Also where’s the protection from perils? He still takes the damage…

        • Reecius
          Reecius November 22, 2017 10:50 am

          Malefic Lord goes super saiyan on perils, so pardon me, protection was the wrong word, he gets BETTER with perils, lol.

          And no, lol, one power doesn’t end the debate. Yeah, Warp Time rocks, so does Prescience, but the Lord gets a 4++ and the Sorcerer gets a 3+.

          Lol, I mean, whatever, I shed NO tears for the stupid Malefic Lord, that model was awfulbad for the game and it is good that it has gone up to a reasonable points cost. You may feel he is a bit too expensive but better that than ludicrously too cheap.

          • rvd1ofakind November 22, 2017 11:00 am

            It’s not reasonable though. It went from stupidly underpriced to stupidly overpriced. That’s not reasonable. 60 pts would’ve been perfect

      • vybert November 22, 2017 3:34 pm

        The 4++ alone is a huge value. At 80 he is reasonable. One could argue he is “slightly more than he should” if they want, but to cry about him being overnnerfed into uselessness is hyperbole. Compare to the GSC Magus I’ve been playing at 73points without that invul and T3.

        To many people spend time wringing their hands and gnashing teeth about their circle of concern instead of focusing on their circle of control.

        I’m glad we are finally seeing GW fix their broken toys.

        • Reecius
          Reecius November 22, 2017 5:03 pm

          Was that a 7 Habits quote? Nicely done if so, tremendous book!

          And yeah, I get people railing at me about a change and It’s like, what do you want me to do? It is what it is, vent if you need to but adapt.

          And yeah, I shed no tears for the Malefic Lord…at all. lol

          • vybert November 22, 2017 7:33 pm

            yeah, lots of emotional intelligence and leadership programs cover the concept, but worded like that… yep, its a shout out to Covey. Though, every time I hear someone say “7 Habits” I can’t help but think of “9 Steps” from Little Miss Sunshine lol

          • Reecius
            Reecius November 24, 2017 8:42 am

            Yeah, that is such an amazingly good book, I apply things I learned in it to my daily life

        • bonesaww666 November 23, 2017 6:56 pm

          Straight up.

          Magus is 73 points without any of the bells and whistles.

    • NinetyNineNo November 23, 2017 5:25 am

      Girlyman’s going up about 7%, from 360 to 385. The fact that they barely slap his wrist when they’re happy to piledrive others into uselessness reeks of favoritism tbh. Guess that’s the difference between no-name FW units (who IIRC don’t even have an official mini) and the main character of 40k who’s probably put more dough in GW’s pockets than anything since the Riptide era.

      • Laurence November 23, 2017 5:29 am

        Yea I’m inclined to agree. All these nerfs, including the Ynnari mega-nerf, are generally fair. But most of the poster boy imperium stuff seems relatively immune from their nerf hammer.

        Imperium players will inevitably chime in and say 7% is a lot, but it’s nothing compared to what chaos and ynnari have just received

        • rvd1ofakind November 23, 2017 7:22 am

          Where did you guys find that info about 7%?

  11. Cephalobeard November 22, 2017 9:34 am

    These “Megathread” style posts you guys are using lately are a little difficult to maneuver. Moves posts around, keeps making me think I’ve already read an article, etc.

    Just as feedback.

    • rvd1ofakind November 22, 2017 9:36 am


    • Reecius
      Reecius November 22, 2017 10:51 am

      I update the title to indicate more material has been added, and for me at least, I prefer to have all the information in one place.

      • Jural November 22, 2017 3:40 pm

        Personally- works for me either way

  12. Dbiesto November 22, 2017 10:45 am

    As long as they don’t kill off index units not included in codexes Im happy…if they nerf the sorceror I spent 3 hours converting and 3 weeks painting Im gonna be a sad panda lol

  13. Venkarel November 22, 2017 10:52 am

    The Harlequin relic gives a character +1 leadership? How is that remotely useful when characters don’t take morale checks?

    In general I think GW “forgets” the vast amount of units they put into the game that are immune or at least functionally immune to morale losses. Look at the dumb biel-tan power to give aspect warriors +1 leadership when they basically never take morale checks anyway. Or Iyanden’s power to limit morale losses at one. In the ultra rare case when a 5x aspect warrior unit takes a morale loss it’s just one loss, so limiting it to one is useless. It’s like the play testers don’t actually play test this sector of the rules. Or they think people run around with units of 10x Howling Banshees.

    I sincerely hope that they don’t try to make dark eldar and harlequins be the armies good at forcing morale checks in a game full of fearless units. But I fear they will…. ugh.

    • The Traitor November 22, 2017 12:45 pm

      I’ve played against units of 20 Iyanden guardian defenders… Their morale buff kicks in A LOT.

      • rvd1ofakind November 23, 2017 7:45 am

        20 guardian units aren’t good

        • rvd1ofakind November 23, 2017 8:11 am

          Not me either. Not enough sodium chloride to be my post. The Nickname bug is running wild

        • David Alastair Hayden November 23, 2017 9:26 pm

          A unit of 20 Guardians is amazing if you know how to use them

    • Venkarel November 22, 2017 1:09 pm

      This is not me, user name bug.

  14. Tautastic November 22, 2017 11:01 am


    Will there be anything in the Chapter Approve regarding Ynnari? I know they are not one of the 11 factions getting some extra rules. I have not heard anything too if they are getting their own codex? I hope they take away some of the “restrictions” (one of the characters needing to be WL) from the FAQ if they are not getting anything in the Chapter Approve.

    • Reecius
      Reecius November 22, 2017 11:06 am

      I unfortunately cannot divulge anything about the supplement until it goes up for pre-order on the GW site.

      • Dbiesto November 22, 2017 11:11 am

        Ya that update kinda killed anything dark eldar until after january, but hopefully in the near future dark eldar will get powerful. At least aeldari are strong again.

      • Tautastic November 22, 2017 11:47 am

        “Supplement” as in Chapter Approve or Ynnari getting a supplement? I know you can’t divulge specifics but it always worth a try :p

        Well pre-order is in 3 days. Hopefully you can shed some light then. Really hoping Ynnari gets something good! If it is a rework on SfD so be it 😀

        • Reecius
          Reecius November 22, 2017 11:49 am

          Haha, I meant the Chapter Approved supplement, not anything related to Ynnari specifically. =)

          • Tautastic November 22, 2017 12:00 pm

            Don’t give me that smiley face! I am still butt hurt from the double Ynnari nerfs! I really like the concept of dying units making them stronger (I do agree they needed to be tone down).

            It is what it is and time to adapt and move on (Good thing beside the 3 characters all my other models are CWE so it did not hurt as much).

            I want a respond on this chain by 12:00:01 AM on 11/25/17 regarding the Chapter Approve contents and Ynnari!*

            *Just joking 😀 or am I? Hahaha

  15. crispy86 November 22, 2017 11:14 am

    Do you need to buy the chapter approves or will some of the point adjustments be featured in FAQs?

    • Reecius
      Reecius November 22, 2017 11:38 am

      I imagine that they will not be posting the points changes online. The FAQs only are posted because there is no print version.

      • crispy86 November 22, 2017 1:21 pm

        No problems, thought that might be the case. Thanks Reecius.

  16. Ytook November 22, 2017 11:20 am

    Reading these comment threads makes me increasingly glad I don’t have to deal with people who like the things I make.

  17. Jural November 22, 2017 3:46 pm

    The rules bloat is going to be insane this edition. Many armies will have Codex, index stragglers, a FAQ (maybe multiple versions) and the chapter approved stuff.

    Still better than 6th and early 7th, where if something stupid made a Codex it festered for 18-60+ months… but it’s going to be unwieldy. Works waay better with a central, free, easily updated living rulebook… but at least they could update digital cod exes! At least the enhanced versions???

    • PrimoFederalist November 24, 2017 8:21 am

      To be fair, the index rules for armies with a Codex is just a nice thing GW is doing for people using units which had rules but don’t have models. They could easily have said Codex armies can’t use Index rules, but they’re giving people options to use their models/conversions. You’re basically critiquing them for throwing people a bone.

  18. David Alastair Hayden November 22, 2017 5:12 pm

    There’s so much salt here I had to get a glass of water to finish the comments.

    • Wes November 22, 2017 7:38 pm

      Right? I was totally planning on posting that!


  19. rvd1ofakind November 22, 2017 8:02 pm

    I love how I got so much hate because I think balance changes shouldn’t make stuff unuseable…
    And yes, I DO think I’d help in the balancing process, because it feels like GW are making changes in a vacuum. They do not compare units to other similar units when making changes.

    When I see a unit change in pts, I grab the top most similar competitive units that were not changed and compare them in pts. If I see that the change in points is out of line(aka the changed unit becomes just straigt up worse), I call them out on it. I don’t care if it’s my unit or not. Same thing happened to Riptides, Flyrants, Eldar. Why did they have to become just god awful at the start of 8th? Because GW thinks this: “oh, these guys were too good, we have to make them a lot worse”, instead of this: “oh, these guys were too good, we should make them comparable to the other similar units”.

    Changing a cost of a psyker, that can’t do anything else but spam smite? Get a bunch more psykers to compare. Then you say to yourself: would I ever take ML instead of those. If the answer is no: you done fkd up.

    Seriously, if they just used an Excel spreadsheet, they would have seen all the ridiculously imbalanced things, like Brimstones being the toughest things in the 40k universe as far as 8th edition is concerned. If it takes more shots to kill a unit of brimstones than a giant tank, that costs 3x more – you would know something is wrong.

    • Ujayim November 23, 2017 4:43 am

      You’re probably getting hate because of how you present your argument, which is likely due to English not being your first language. You come off far too aggressive.

    • Laurence November 23, 2017 5:24 am

      You’re presenting your argument as if it’s the only perspective based on facts. You cite spreadsheets but I would challenge you to produce a formula that accounts for the thousands, if not tens of thousands, of interdependent variables that can affect this game. Claiming you have the “secret algorithm” is just super arrogant dude

      • rvd1ofakind November 23, 2017 7:02 am

        That’s the thing. I do not have a secret algorithm. It’s very simple and anyone with Excel knowledge can do it in like 10 minutes. Doing that would show you that a tank will be killed FASTER with anti-infantry weapons than Brimstones.

        How was that missed?

        • Laurence November 23, 2017 7:14 am

          It wasn’t missed. But the basic premise that your argument rests on is false. You can’t boil down the relative points-efficiency of a unit in this game to how quickly a specific weapon will kill it. Sure, a spreadsheet will demonstrate that simplistic result perfectly, but that result tells you practically nothing of value

          • rvd1ofakind November 23, 2017 7:40 am

            It tells us that an anti infantry weapon works better on a tank than infantry… You don’t think that’s completelly illogical?
            Even with all the “mathammer means nothing”. If you see something like that. Just try it in game. Try spamming brimstones(remember, this is back when they were 2pts and had a normal smite) vs a normal list. The normal list wouldn’t be able to win, ever.

    • bonesaww666 November 23, 2017 7:03 pm

      A Magus Ford GSC is 73 points… no invul.

      Comparable unit.

      • rvd1ofakind November 24, 2017 12:28 pm

        I’m talking about units actually seeing competitive play. Also, cheaper smite is more important

  20. Alex R November 22, 2017 8:37 pm

    With primarius psyker being 40pts with no protection this seems okay those invulnerables don’t come cheap

    • rvd1ofakind November 22, 2017 8:54 pm

      When a unit has the Character keyword, it’s defensive stats mean a LOT less. They are pretty much immortal until turn 4-ish. Feel free to give me those 20 pts 6+ psykers. I’ll take them in a heartbeat.

  21. Bedmond Loans November 22, 2017 9:49 pm

    Classic FLG whiteknightery in this thread.

    Here’s the standard form argument:

    1. ‘GW made the right call’ – for example –

    Reecius – “Yeah, exactly. He’s reasonable, now. Still clearly the best Renegade HQ, too. He’s just not the idiotic Smite battery he was, and so folks get a little ruffled by it but that model was so unenjoyable in the game as he was.”

    2. Response to statement which indicates that GW did not make the right call –

    Reecius – “Dude, get over it, lol. What’s done is done. GW made a call, here is reality. If you want to use them, do. If you don’t, don’t.”

    Reecius I suggest you hire Jeff ‘in control’ Robinson to respond to these threads on behalf of FLG. He takes far more reasonable stances on balance issues, as he does on Signals, and is willing to call BS on GW where the majority of the time you are not.

    • Guntroll November 23, 2017 2:03 am

      It appears that the debate whether the ML should have been 60, 70 or 80 is going nowhere but emotional.
      There is no point to flame each other, I respect either opinions.

      It is logical then to face the reality: it’s 80 points now.

    • Ujayim November 23, 2017 4:41 am

      I know criticism isn’t always handled the best here, but as a fan I would like to chime in with slight agreement that I wish you guys were more willing to be critical of GW again. As a consumer, it feels a lot more like it’s shifted from a non-bias from you guys, to approaching very close to almost being a direct, undisclosed ad for them.

      That being said, you’re a business and are welcome to do as you please. You don’t owe anyone anything.

    • Ytook November 23, 2017 9:21 am

      Someone’s opinions not aligning with your own isn’t BS, this isn’t 7th ed with a clearly busted game, these are arguments over minutiae in a pretty solid system with very little justification to say either way yet beyond theory, which is fine and fun to debate about. But getting so emotive (not necessarily you, but in general) over it is silly.

      Also the second response is after a long string explaining why he thinks it’s right. I don’t necessarily agree with him but calling it whiteknightery is reductive.

      Also in the end we’re talking about a 20 points difference between reality as what people seem to want.

      • rvd1ofakind November 23, 2017 11:02 am

        The amount of points is irrelevant in the vacuum, that you are presenting them in.

        It is all relative. You pick two very similar units (psykers in this case) and you compare them. If one costs more pts than the other – it has to be objectively stronger. If the more expensive unit isn’t stronger – he is immediatly useless.
        Strength isn’t just durability and damage. It’s everything good/bad about the unit.

        Let’s compare Malefic Lords to Nurgle Heralds

        1” more of movement
        Hulking out is worth about 1 point max due to how rare it happens and usually it isn’t even good(you fail the cast, you get damaged) so it is largely irrelavant.

        Better Strength(5>4)
        Better Toughness(5>4)
        Better Weapon Skill (2+>4+)
        Very slightly better survivability (5++ FNP > 4++)
        Nurgle Daemon empowering aura
        Nurgle spells (which are pretty much objectively better)
        and most importantly – it is CHEAPER(70 instead of 80)

        • rvd1ofakind November 23, 2017 11:03 am

          Oh and Nurgle Herald has a re-roll all failed wounds weapon too.

        • Ytook November 23, 2017 3:10 pm

          Except they’re different factions so it’s irrelevant.

          Anyway, it’s nice you care.

          • Ytook November 23, 2017 3:43 pm

            Well that was a salty comment from myself, sorry about that.

            However as I said initialy, I agree 80 is probably too much, I take issue with the “whiteknighting” silliness and reducing what Reece said to fit a skewed narrative.

            And in the end maelifoc Lord being maybe 10 points over costed won’t make it a bad choice in a renegades detachment with loads of great choices that need a cheap and still useful HQ to unlock.

          • rvd1ofakind November 23, 2017 8:33 pm

            Chaos is the same faction…
            “But chaos is not a faction”. It is. CSM, Chaos Daemons, Renegades do not even exist basically. It is Chaos, Imperium and multiple sad sad Xenos

          • Dakkath November 23, 2017 9:18 pm

            Imperium, Chaos, Aeldari, and then several sad lonely xenos.

          • Ytook November 24, 2017 11:36 am

            Expect for unlocking obsec for those renegade units, which is pretty good.

            Also you’re point proves Heralds are too cheap, I’ll give you that.

            Maelifics are maybe a bit too much at 80 but not unplayable.

          • rvd1ofakind November 24, 2017 12:27 pm

            But Heralds are already basically not seeing competitive play. If they are better than MLs by default then MLs are unplayable. Also doing separate detachments is easier than ever before so the ObSec thing is (sadly as I hate soup lists as am idea) almost completelly irrelevant…. also other renegades also see no play…

          • Ytook November 24, 2017 2:11 pm

            I see them a fair bit, they’re good and at 80 they’ll be fine if not as good as they could be and I’m fine with that. But we clearly aren’t going to agree. So let’s leave it there.

      • AngryPanda November 23, 2017 5:10 pm

        GW needed someone with credibility so they outsourced it to people that have it. They’ll just burn through it till it is all burned like they did their own though.

    • Dakkath November 23, 2017 5:39 pm


  22. Nightman November 23, 2017 2:47 am

    I’m so happy they are gone, but i feel a bit bad for the chaos players. 80 points just makes him complete thrash, for what he does 50-60 would stop any form of ML spam.

    Long term if they make the renegade psychic discipline more interesting i think 80 is fine.

  23. C-Stock November 23, 2017 11:27 am

    80 points makes them like a normal unit in most codexes. Sounds good to me.

  24. C-Stock November 23, 2017 11:30 am

    I think the death jester needs more than a points cut. His special power is mostly useless and often, well almost always, completely useless. I guess now he can be a cheap shuriken cannon or something. Might be a solid stopgap until Harlequins get a codex.

    Also troupes need a points cut. They just aren’t good for their points in a meta full of vehicles and hordes they suck against.

  25. crispy86 November 23, 2017 2:39 pm

    Been thinking about that dakka dakka dakka stratagem, really looking forward to using that with tank bustas hitting a vehicle.


  26. rvd1ofakind November 24, 2017 10:13 pm

    So Cawl went down to 240??? I’m confused. I assume he’ll be either FAQd up or the GW article writters are imcompetant(shocking no one)…Anyway time for salt

    Useless Kataphrons reduced in cost by 8% are still useless. Actually most of the never used units only got dropped by that much. However they should have dropped in points by almost 50% to be viable mathammer wise when compared to other such units.
    Ruststalkers UNCHANGED?!?! InControl! We’re gonna have to start a riot.
    All the weapons that got dropped in pts will still never be used (Except dominus I guess)

    FW greater daemons. WOW. WOOOOW. 1500??? Might as well say “you can’t use this unit in matched play”. Crappy Zarakynel, Khorne Guy went up sooo much when they don’t see ANY play. I have not seen Zarakynel anywhere ever. Have you? Show me those tournaments where she was in top 10 armies or used at all by anyone doing anything. Scabby going up is questionable as he barelly was worth it to begin with.
    So basically like Malefic Lords, GW went “ugh Forgeworld” *shake collective heads* *delete half of the units* “Now think about what you’ve done!”

    • rvd1ofakind November 24, 2017 11:09 pm

      Basically GW told FW to get the f out of the game. You get cool miniatures and that’s it.

      • Ryan November 25, 2017 10:59 am

        Except the only model with a price increase you actually care about (judging by 20 comments u left in this thread alone), dosnt even have a model, ie) maelfic lord.

        • rvd1ofakind November 25, 2017 1:19 pm

          Nah, I care about Scabby and Zara as those are the only FW minis I have. (I use them as GUO and KoS respectivelly)

  27. Alex R November 24, 2017 11:31 pm

    ive seen the leaks, conscripts UP 1 POINT????? WHATS THE POINT of taking a unit thats inferior to the infantry squad only because the unit can be taken in a squad of 20 means its the same as a infantry squad. i really against this change, im sorry reecius but this change is the hardest nerf for astra militarium. its completely killed this unit, i was fine with the changes with commissars im not happy about this change

    • Arthagoth November 25, 2017 5:57 am

      Gw did This nerf before faq…. if not, this is not logical, the book faqs and this…. we need players writting, please, test in rules! Balance and good play.

      The next: faq chapter aproved!

      Not logical

      • Ujayim November 25, 2017 7:42 am

        My concern here is that players and “playtesters” were involved here. If that’s the case, then the edition is worse off for it.

        You -cannot- change things THIS heavily and not have backlash.

    • Blight November 25, 2017 2:06 pm

      I think you overestimate Reece’s ability to change things in the game.

  28. C-Stock November 25, 2017 7:02 pm

    The warp hunter needed a point cut……. and it got a freaking +60 point increase. It’s worth maybe 175points and it’s 300.

    The lynx went up as well and it was already overpriced.

    The Revenant is now just a 300 points less than the much huger Phantom.

    Forgeworld still seems to be on glue when it comes to Eldar.

    Oh and they nerfed the Tantalus our of existence again.