Eldar Tactics: Warlocks and Warlock Conclaves

I have gotten a few emails from Eldar players asking about the Warlock and why you would take one over a Spiritseer? Well, here’s a quick tactica and answer for you! For more fun and informative articles, check out the Tactics Corner!

So the basic question here is why take a Warlock who weighs in at 35pts and has 2 wounds over the Spiritseer who is 45pts and has 4 wounds. The rest of their gear is very similar with a 4++, weapons that wound on a 2+ and do multiple damage, etc. They are both HQs (which geez, you have a cheap HQ psyker in either flavor for very few points! That’s already better than most factions, lol) but the Spiritseer also has a buff for Wraith Construct units and the Warlock not only doesn’t but also has a limitation of a 9″ range on Smite.

Image by Ning

Well, if you are only looking at those stats, you wouldn’t take the Warlock! The Spiritseer is strictly better from that perspective, however, this is 8th edition and you if you only look at a unit’s profile to decide if it is the “best” choice or not, you are limiting yourself in a big way.

Stratagems are a critical part of the game now and in many ways they define how you build your list in 8th. If you are not taking full advantage of them, you are playing them game with one arm tied behind your back. There are tthree stratagems that make a HUGE difference between the Spiritseer and Warlock units. These are Seer Council and Concordance of Power and to a lesser extent, Unparalleled Mastery. Allow me to explain why.

Eldar Psychic Powers are incredibly good. Runes of Battle is in my mind, the best school of powers in the game. You get incredibly good abilities that have good range and can be both a buff AND a de-buff! It’s ridiculously powerful and versatile. However, your access to these powers is through the Warlock, Warlock Conclave (and Bike versions) and Spiritseer. As the most popular are almost all Warp Charge 7, they can be difficult to cast successfully. As you can only attempt each power once in matched play per psychic phase, and these powers are often central to your core strategies (Quicken and Protect in particular), on those critical turns when you make your big play, you NEED them to go off. It can be the difference between winning and losing a game. The Seer Council stratagem gives the Warlock and Farseer units +1 to cast for the phase. This may not seem like much, but it makes a big difference with a WC 7 power.

When you roll 2D6, there are 36 possible combinations of numbers as shown above. 5 of those add up to 6: 1 and 5, 5 and 1, 2 and 4, 4 and 2, 3 and 3. That is obviously 5/36 possible combinations or a 13.9% increase in the odds of getting the power off. As an example to illustrate, it is very close to what a +1 to cast would be if you only took Physic Checks on 1D6 (a 16.7% increase). Or, a +1 to an armor save, for example, going from a 4+ to a 3+. That may help to put it in perspective. This is further boosted by a CP re-roll or with the Biel-Tan relic, the Spirit Stone of Anath’Lan, which allows you to re-roll failed psychic checks to increase the odds of casting and to help avoid perils (yet another reason why I love Biel-Tan, as I know I have very good odds of getting those critical powers off when I need them!). Similarly you can use the Seer of the Shifting Vector Warlod Trait to do the same thing, but I prefer Biel-Tan personally as it frees me up to take the awesome Natural Leader Warlord Trait to twin-link a unit.

However, this benefit is twofold as a +1 to cast means not only lowering the minimum casting threshold but also increasing your odds of resisting deny the witch. If you roll say, a 7 or 8 it goes up to an 8 or 9, making it much harder to stop. Further, the Farseer will also benefit and as many of their powers are also typically WC 7, you increase the odds of getting Doom (typically the critical Farseer power), Fortune, Guide, etc. off. And as the Farseer can cast two powers (three with Eldrad) the benefit again comes in to play. You can further press this advantage with the Unparalleled Mastery stratagem to cast a third power with your Farseer, typically this will be Smite, but as you are already benefiting from the +1, and if you are in a position where you really need to deal more damage, go for it! It also increases the odds of getting the D6 Mortal Wound Smite off, too (possibly getting a +2 with the Ulthwe relic).

This is even further enhanced when you use a Warlock Conclave. Now, they do lose the Character keyword protection (and thus cannot take a Relic if you were doing so), and do cost more points, but if you opted for it the benefits are significant. For one, you pay less points per model at 30 each. For two, if you opt for a unit of 4, they can cast twice and deny twice, too. And remember, you can cast both the buff/de-buff version of a Runes of Battle power, meaning you can both lower an enemy unit’s saves by 1 and buff one of your unit’s saves by 1 as an example. This also means that like the Farseer, you get double the benefit (or hell, go for 7+ in the unit and get three!) from the Seer Council Stratagem which increases the efficiency of that CP spent on it. You can further opt to use the Concordance of Power stratagem to double the range of the power, which is available only to the Conclave. Now, that may not sound super exciting but there are a few things many people miss. For one, you don’t spend the CP unless you successfully cast the power. No risk of wasting your CP. Once manifested and the range doubled, you then pick your target which at 36″ range, opens up most of the table. Why this is significant is twofold. For one, Runes of Battle powers are all 18″ range, well within Deny the Witch range of 24″. However, 36″ is clearly bigger than 24″, lol, and this means you can cast a critical debuff from outside of your opponent’s range to stop it. Now, imagine if you will, hitting someone like Magnus the Red with Jinx on the top of turn 1, dropping him to a 5++. Now imagine shooting him with lots of Dark Reapers and/or Fire Prisms. Now imagine him dying like a punk and your opponent letting a single, sad tear roll down their cheek, because that is what will happen, lol! This is just one of many potentially devastating powers you can hit your opponent with, deep into their lines, or buff one of your own units with that looked like they may have been out of range of support.

All of these amazing and wonderful things you can only do with Warlocks. And, they aren’t bad in combat, either. 2 attacks each, wounding on a 2+ and doing D3 damage a pop, which can be boosted quite a bit with the myriad ways to increase their number of attacks, granting them AP-1, etc. available to Eldar. The best part is that Runes of Battle powers don’t require LoS, so you can do it all form hiding…very Eldarish! These powers and combos are sometimes subtle and may not jump out at you right away. You have to get some reps in with the army to really master it, but that is fitting for the Eldar. If you just want to slap Warp Spiders and Scat Packs on the table and win as was the case in 7th, well, I don’t know what to tell you, haha. Spam Dark Reapers and you get close to that I guess, but the army is about combos and finesse as it should be. Jokes aside, the Warlock has a ton to offer the canny Eldar player if they look for it. I always take at least a single Warlock just for the Seer Council stratagem as I have found over and over again that while I may only use it once in a game, that turn that I am committing to the attack or have to stop my opponent’s attack and need some key powers to go off successfully, he becomes the lynchpin to bringing me success. I tend to run 1 Farseer, 1 Warlock and 1 Spiritseer or just a Farseer and Warlock Conclave of 4-5 models as they all give me benefits that I love. With or without Bikes I find comes down to the individual preference and army construction. I tend to play on foot as I like Footdar, but also to save points. If your army needs the speed or you want more durability, go with the Bikes.

Hope that helps! What have you all found works best when using the Eldar Psykers?


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About Reecius

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53 Responses to “Eldar Tactics: Warlocks and Warlock Conclaves”

  1. Avatar
    DirtyDeeds November 13, 2017 8:01 pm #

    I’ve been running the same combo with my psykers, I have a Conclave unit with two Warlocks hiding in a level one building casting Jinx outside of Deny the Witch range. I haven’t played against a Primarch list yet, but I’m sure it’ll surprise him!

    • Reecius
      Reecius November 14, 2017 8:26 am #

      Yeah, it is so much better than it may appear to people on paper. The first time you do it, you’re like, wow. And the salt it brings out in your opponent is magnificent, lol.

      Jokes aside, it is not a perfect combo but man is it good.

  2. Avatar
    Dakkath November 13, 2017 8:14 pm #

    so to sum it up:

    tl;dr warlock conclaves are only good when using seer council and unparalleled mastery, otherwise spiritseers are better in terms of points per cast and being able to hide.

    • Avatar
      Jimbojones November 14, 2017 6:58 am #

      But he does make a point that these stratagems might be enough reason to take the warlock.

      • Reecius
        Reecius November 14, 2017 7:51 am #

        Dakkath has it, but, removing strats from the equation is self-defeating. You have to consider them when taking units or you are playing at a disadvantage.

  3. Avatar
    Garry November 14, 2017 5:55 am #

    I can’t find my book but I believe co distance of power only works on warlocks cconclave specifically, but conclave are simply too expensive and vulnerable for what they provide.

    A good argument could be made for a webway strike 4 man conclave using seer councill getting those two runes of battle spells off, and praying the live to do anything else ever again.

    Still you are paying a premium of almost twice as much for two powers and getting +1 on bith.

    • Avatar
      DirtyDeeds November 14, 2017 6:59 am #

      I’m glad to pay that price to have an uncontested Jinx on Magnus

      • Reecius
        Reecius November 14, 2017 7:52 am #

        Yes, Concordance is only on the Conclave as stated, but, it is potentially game winning when it works. Also, hiding them isn’t so hard if you have decent terrain. They really only fear artillery.

    • Reecius
      Reecius November 14, 2017 8:29 am #

      Exactly, if you find yourself facing an army that can kill the Conclave turn 1, keep them off the board with Webway. That strat is stupidly awesome. Perfect alpha strike defense….so good. Then you pop in where needed and let er rip! You could even do that to play offense, drop in 10 Warlocks with a Farseer, use Quicken on themselves and buff up with Enhance, Protect, Fortune, Supreme Disdain, etc. and go chop-chop! If the Farseer has Ambush of Blades Strat, all the better! Would be a lot of fun.

      • Avatar
        C-Stock November 14, 2017 8:36 am #

        It doesn’t work though. WC6-7 isn’t reliable, especially with DtW around. The chance of a Warlock getting a crucial power off in that case is less than 50%.

        • Avatar
          C-Stock November 14, 2017 8:38 am #

          Wait. The conclave loses the character rule? We have to hide/suicide it?

          Gawd that’s weak. Give it the character rule back and maybe it’s decent and playable.

          • Reecius
            Reecius November 14, 2017 8:46 am

            Yes, you don’t get unit of Characters, haha. That would be silly.

            And no, it doesn’t mean you instantly die when they go on the table, you can hide, use the webway strike strat, start in a vehicle, etc. It presents some challenges but also cool benefits.

            Again though, seems like you’ve already made your mind up that you don’t think they’re worth it which is fine and your prerogative, but from a LOT of experience I can tell you frankly you are wrong and if you don’t at least give them a shot you are selling yourself short. But, tis a free country so do as you like, sir. =)

        • Reecius
          Reecius November 14, 2017 8:44 am #

          That is not true. With the strat (which again, you pop if you are in range to have DtW be an issue) it gives you a significant increase in the odds of successfully casting and not being denied. Plus, with an 18″ range, and the ability to buff instead of debuff, you can simply hang back out of DtW range to cast.

          Again, do what you want, if you don’t like them, you don’t like them, so be it. No skin off my back. What I am saying is that I use them competitively all the time and love what they give me. I also love using the Spiritseer for those extra wounds. Take that however you like, but I suggest trying them, trying some of the tactics I suggest and then deciding before just reacting emotionally to theory hammer. I think you will find that on the table, they are much, much better than they appear on paper. However, YMMV.

  4. Avatar
    C-Stock November 14, 2017 8:35 am #

    So if you spend CPs then Warlocks are good.

    Other armies have psykers that are good without spending CPs though, and *great* with them.

    Reece – your article misses the fact that Warlocks suck because they explode upon getting perils and them kill your army with them. That’s an absolutely killer flaw in Warlock rules which alone makes them poor choices.

    Hopefully chapter approved will give them another wound or two. Because right now they’re a huge liability: not only are odds of casting WC7 powers with DtW around just dismal, Warlocks often end up being a bigger threat to your own army than the opponent.

    Even the little IG psykers have four wounds. It’s just ridiculous that Warlocks have two.

    • Reecius
      Reecius November 14, 2017 8:40 am #

      Yeah, you know what, you’re right. I’ve only been using them successfully for a long time, lol. What would I know? The internet has decreed they are bad with the dex being a few weeks old so it must be so. =P

      • Avatar
        C-Stock November 14, 2017 8:43 am #

        So you don’t roll perils and explode with them? What do you do, spend even more CPs?

        • Reecius
          Reecius November 14, 2017 8:50 am #

          It does happen yes, which is annoying, yes. It is a risk, no doubt. I play Biel-Tan and usually give them the re-roll relic so avoid that, but yeah, you can use a CP to save them, too. So what, though? lol. However, it doesn’t happen nearly that often and if it does happen when you can’t afford to lose him, the CP is well spent. They’re so cheap for what they give you that for me, it is totally worth it to me. Runes of Battle is amazingly useful, but it does come with some risk. If that risk is unacceptable to you, then put him on a Bike to reduce the odds or just stick with the Spiritseer.

    • Avatar
      Venkarel November 14, 2017 12:40 pm #

      That is another one of the benefits of a conclave. The min. unit size of two has 4 wounds and does not suffer the bad results of perils until the last wound is taken off the last model.

  5. Avatar
    Tautastic November 14, 2017 9:27 am #

    I think people are sometimes forgetting that once you go super competitive, 10pts here and there can make a big difference! Unless you are going for smite spam (which I hope chapter approve nerfs), I would in most cases go for the warlock mainly because of the Seer Council stratagem (just how my army is built). When you decide to go all in and need that Quicken/Jinx and Doom to go off, that stratagem is golden!

    Now just need to know what the CWE FAQ will bring and how it will affect my Ynnari/CWE army…I thought it would be released last Sunday but I guess I have to wait a little longer 🙁

    • Reecius
      Reecius November 15, 2017 8:11 am #

      Exactly, that strat is what makes Warlocks worth while, otherwise stick to Spiritseers.

  6. Avatar
    Cavalier November 14, 2017 10:39 am #

    Reece I feel like we are back in 6th edition again where you are trying to convice people Eldar are good again… I think they are absoulely phenomenal. I think with their stratagems and the powers from the Warlocks they are one of the most unpredictable and versatile armies in the game. My head is just swimming with combos… love these articles man keep them coming. And the Eldar bat-reps too!

    • Reecius
      Reecius November 14, 2017 4:30 pm #

      I know, right? lol, tough crowd! Even back further than that when the Wraithknight came out and I was jumping up and down saying it was good and everyone was telling me I was wrong, then they popped up in every tournament list, lol.

      I mean, it’s not about being right or anything, I just get annoyed when people decide something is bad before actually trying it. It’s like, group think kicks in and then no one bothers to test the ideas but go even further trying to convince others something is bad before they try it, lol.

  7. Avatar
    Vilicate November 14, 2017 11:00 am #

    I mean, I understand why they kept them at two wounds, because a unit with three or four wounds per model would be pretty nuts.

    That being said, they could have made the single warlock the same entry, and buffed his wounds so that he doesn’t just die most of the time if he perils. I like the warlock in that

    • Reecius
      Reecius November 14, 2017 4:45 pm #

      Sure, but then just use a CP to avoid perils. It only occurs 1 in 18 times anyway, lol, I think folks are focusing on it way too much. I mean, in 3 games, casting every turn, it should happen once. And then, 2 in 3 times you die. So, in 18 games, he commits suicide twice on averages. That sucks sure, but it really isn’t the end of the world or anything.

      However, if it is that frustrating, just go with the Spiritseer and take you chances on getting a good power off or not.

  8. Avatar
    zyekian November 14, 2017 11:58 am #

    After four games with the new codex under my belt (three with a pair of Warlocks), I can say that they’re more fun to play than before. I’ve gotten good mileage out of jinx and protect mostly.

    The guy talking about exploding Warlocks is right though, it’s too much. And it goes heavily against the fluff that Warlocks would be suicidal.

    I tried the webway portal trick with fire dragons and a warlock to quicken them into melta range. The Warlock exploded and killed five of the fire dragons, leaving just the exach (that then died to morale).

    The game before that my warlock tried to conceal a wraithguard unit, failed, CP reroll, exploded, killed himself, a whole ranger unit, and a wraithguard from two separate units.

    In my third match, a Warlock was golden, slapping jink on a key unit so I could gun it down. Jink is like Doom-lite. Love it. Really love it. And my opponents hate it. 🙂

    I’ll take Warlocks in casual and semi-competitive lists. But they feel so suicidal, playing more like Orks than Eldar. If they can’t have a 3rd wound (which would be balanced and good), they should get ghosthelms or some way to mitigate perils. After all, they’re cheap and built to be taken in substantial numbers, is it really good to have them blowing up chunks of their own army? I doubt they play as intended.

    Their strategems are okay but it feels like I’m using CPs to make them worth it, when my opponents get psykers that do great things for WC5-WC6 and no strategems.

    The seer council thing should have been innate (free), at least in one direction. If Warlocks are within 6″ of a Farseer then they get +1 to psychic tests. The conclave strategem makes me pay a CP to make tests one point easier, but mathematically-speaking most of the time you don’t roll exactly a 6 when you need a 7, making it feel like the point was wasted. (because it was).

    Maybe if Warlocks only periled on 1-1 and not 6-6 or something. There are a lot of solutions that would make them make more sense.

    Lastly, I agree with Cstock that the conclave not getting character cover makes them terribad. Like Reece said, you can put a CP into dropping them into someone’s face and casting a couple powers. The problem with that is:

    1) Those powers will fail more than 50% of the time if there’s DtW around. Even if there’s no DtW, they fail 42% of the time, which is unacceptable in a bum-rush in your face strategy. Yeah you can reroll one die (for the phase) to help your odds a bit but then you just spent CPs getting there, CPs to reroll, and you’re still likely to struggle with WC7.

    2) That conclave (plus a farseer?) that you just webwayed out in someone’s face are going to die really easily to small arms fire and/or assault. And that’s a lot of points to suicide.

    I agree that if it worked it could be good as part of a larger strategy. The problem though is that math says it just won’t.

    Like I said though, Warlocks are more fun than ever. I love integrating them into my forces, they look cool and give people pause. The utility and jinx are where it’s at, plus protect. And maybe quicken, I wouldn’t know though because I’m like 0-for-6 casting it. 🙁

    • Avatar
      C-Stock November 14, 2017 1:58 pm #

      ^ this

      You have to be willing to dump like 1/3 of your CPs into Warlocks just to get them to be decent and not explode and kill your army. They need a re-think, not just a point cut or something like that.

      • Reecius
        Reecius November 14, 2017 4:58 pm #

        1/3 of your CP? 1 CP. You only need 1, lol, again, that was the point of the article, haha. The rest of it was other cool stuff you can do if you choose.

    • Reecius
      Reecius November 14, 2017 4:57 pm #

      Losing 2 Warlocks to Perils in two games sucks, for sure, but is vastly not normal, lol. That’s just bad luck. As stated above, on averages, you lose 1 in every 9 games.

      And the whole point of the article was that if you use the strat it isn’t a 50/50 chance of getting the powers off, lol. But, hey, I guess you missed that =P Did you read the article before commenting? With Seer Council you have a 72.2% chance of casting a WC 7 power successfully. With a re-roll ability it goes up even more.

      The Warlock Conclave should be casting powers from out of LoS if you are playing a shooting army. Only artillery should be a real threat to them unless you expose them for some reason. I suggested dropping them in someone’s face only as a cool alternative, lol, not as a primary strategy. You drop them in your own back-lines to avoid an alpha strike if someone can threaten them. Otherwise, just keep them out of LoS and case powers from safety. Mine only ever die at the end of the game when they have no screens left and in that case it wouldn’t matter if they were Characters or not.

      But again, play how you want. I haven’t played a game as Eldar without a Warlock and have never regretted it.

      • Avatar
        zyekian November 14, 2017 6:04 pm #

        I’m referring to scenarios where DtW is a thing. WC7 + DtW = about 50% success rate. Haven’t run the math on using a CP to make it WC6, but it’s probably only 55% or so (again assuming DtW).

        • Reecius
          Reecius November 14, 2017 6:37 pm #

          Why are you even in DtW range? Are you playing super aggressively? The only time that happens to me is when Magnus or Morty bum rushes me. I keep my Farseer and Warlock in the back at maximum range, only advancing when I need to debuff a unit.

          But again, the +1 form Seer Council is a massive shift in your favor. Like I said, it boosts your chances to cast to 72%, and if you do roll a 7, for example, now your opponent needs to roll a 9 to stop you (as you jump up to an 8) which means they only have a 28% chance of stopping you.

  9. Avatar
    zyekian November 14, 2017 12:13 pm #

    Warlocks also make me wish I could cast the same power multiple times per turn, largely because I have a crap ton of IG parking lots kicking my stones in every game… and putting -1 armor save on one of their 14 tanks just doesn’t matter.

    But that’s more of an IG spam parking lot problem than a Warlock problem 🙂

    • Reecius
      Reecius November 14, 2017 5:00 pm #

      Eh, you don’t want powers twice. Warp Time twice to get Magnus and Morty in your face turn 1 would be no fun. The rule of 1 provides great balance.

      What types of AM are you playing against? I seriously never lose to them, not saying I am the greatest or whatever, but AM are not invincible by any stretch of the imagination.

      • Avatar
        zyekian November 14, 2017 6:02 pm #

        Oh definitely not.

        The AM lists I’m playing against are something to the effect of ~13 tanks, including maybe three or so Manticores/basilisks/etc, and then a handful of psykers to crank out cheap smites and tank buffs.

        Pask and a tank commander, slinging rerolls on 1s. Then a bunch of CPs for more rerolls. Russes all over double-shooting with rerolls. The guy I played most recently had a trio of hellhounds in there as well and one of those FW laser artillery things that hits with 1-3 lascannons.

        I was running Alatioc for the -1 and he still killed 800 points of my army at the top of turn one. I ended up taking my turn to grab warlord and a couple other secondary objectives then resigned, as I had no chance.

        The guy has only been playing 40k for a year and he tabled everyone he faced in the tournament. In fact he only played four rounds across three games, as he just stood there obliterating everyone turn one, other than whatever they could hide behind BLOS.

        • Reecius
          Reecius November 14, 2017 6:33 pm #

          Hmm, interesting. Do you guys use LoS blocking terrain? That stuff just doesn’t happen here. Tank armies get wrecked by all the infiltrating Zerkers and Cultists that just tag them in combat. We have a lot of Chaos here, who don’t have too much trouble with tank armies. They just don’t do that well in a horde meta in our experience.

          Pro tip: use Asurmen if you are getting waxed by high ap shots like Bassilisk, he gives you an invul save and it helps a ton. Plus, if you can keep things off of the table, that is obviously a massive benefit.

          • Avatar
            DirtyDeeds November 14, 2017 8:44 pm

            This guy posted the same story in the Competitive 40k page and got the very same answer.

          • Reecius
            Reecius November 15, 2017 8:14 am

            Yeah, I would imagine so. I mean, this is EXACTLY why I take Howling Banshees. If someone lines up a bunch of tanks I drop the Banshees out of the WWP, hit them with Quicken (again, using the Seer Council strat to make sure I get it off) and then they multi-charge every vehicle they can touch. As I take a 10 strong unit, and they’re mega quick, that is a lot of vehicles. They can’t be overwatched and as most vehicles hit on a 6+ and Banshees are -1 to hit, they literally can’t hurt them. Then, they never shoot, lol. It’s a slam dunk.

  10. Avatar
    David Hayden November 14, 2017 12:36 pm #

    I’ve gotten a lot of use out of my 2-3 Spirit Seers and for the sort of lists I run, I can’t afford spending CPs to make the Warlocks good or risk the explosions. I can see how they’d work in some scenarios, though.

    For me, I run a list with 8 CP that immediately drops to 5 because of the Webway. Needing other powers like Celestial Guidance and the one that gives the auto 6″ advance, I can’t afford to spend to make a unit good.

    • Reecius
      Reecius November 14, 2017 5:04 pm #

      Sure, and that is a solid strategy. I prefer to take the risk and increase the odds of getting my powers off =)

      And you ALWAYS deep strike two unit? I often only drop in 1 or none depending on who I am playing.

      • Avatar
        David Hayden November 15, 2017 1:22 pm #

        My list is currently built around dropping in 2 units of 20 Guardians.

        I’m trying to fine-tune it, though. If I can figure out a replacement for the second Guardian mob then I’ll switch to just dropping in 1 unit. Technically 2, but that’s because I drop in a Farseer using the Alaitoc cloak relic.

        • Reecius
          Reecius November 15, 2017 2:21 pm #

          Yeah, the Guardian Bomb coming in is no joke! I really enjoy that unit.

  11. Avatar
    Wayniac November 14, 2017 1:21 pm #

    I’m not sold on the conclave, but I am planning on a Farseer, Warlock and Spiritseer and then in a spearhead an Autarch (using the codex version as I dislike the whole “default to the index” crap). It seems solid.

    Good article, I hope to see more.

    • Reecius
      Reecius November 14, 2017 5:02 pm #

      Glad you liked it. I would suggest trying the Conclave, you just have to play it defensively if you want them to act primarily as a buffing unit. As stated, only tings that can strike units out of LoS scare you.

      • Avatar
        zyekian November 14, 2017 5:52 pm #

        My meta is loaded with pop-ups and IG units that ignore BLOS. Also I just don’t like the idea of having a unit I have to hide for it to be playable.

        • Avatar
          DirtyDeeds November 14, 2017 8:45 pm #

          Isn’t that exactly what artillery does?

  12. Avatar
    Laurence November 15, 2017 1:23 am #

    I even ran Warlocks successfully pre-codex. My Ynnari list was undefeated until I ran into Ryan at SoCal (Magnarion…*shudder*) and the single 37 pt Warlock was a lynchpin to the list. Conceal itself is so powerful, and now with more powers, strategems AND a points drop I seriously cannot see how this is anything but net increase. Both theory hammer and competitive experience say they are a no brainer

    • Reecius
      Reecius November 15, 2017 8:16 am #

      Yeah, exactly. People who I talk to that have some experience with them say the same thing. All this talk about them exploding all the time due to Perils is silly, or people are just crazy unlucky like it sounds like Zyekian was. Again, you should only Perils 1 in 18 times you attempt to cast. It is not something that will happen consistently.

  13. Avatar
    JoffreyDann November 15, 2017 5:04 am #

    The conclave is unplayable. A bunch of Warlocks running for their lives. If you have to hide them like that then something is really wrong with the unit design. Nobody is going to use them, not even in casual games, they’re all liability with too little upside.

    And yeah warlocks die like popcorn to perils and take out chunks of your army with them. I really hate having to put them on a bike to make them a little less likely to put a crater in my forces. GW really needs to FAQ these guys to make them sane because right now they seem poorly designed.

    • Reecius
      Reecius November 15, 2017 8:21 am #

      Le sigh, haha, I sometimes wonder why I try.

      I am telling you, I HAVE USED THEM SUCCESSFULLY, lol. I am not saying I think they can be good, but that they ARE when used properly. This isn’t theory, lol, but actual on the table experience. As stated, only artillery are a true threat if your opponent wants them dead.

      And lots of units want to hide, that is not a design flaw. Artillery, support characters, MSU units, etc. all want to keep their heads down. That’s just a part of the game.

      And Warlocks elaborately do not die like popcorn to perils, lol. Are you playing with dice that have all 1’s or 6’s on them? How are you perilsing so frequently and not using a CP to stop it if so? I have had all of 1 Warlock Perils in die in all my games and it was because it was the end of the game and I was out of CP. And, to be fair, it did cost me big time, but I learned my lesson and now always give him the re-roll relic to avoid that if my list relies on his power going off (which my list does).

      Anyway, I am not trying to be combative or anything, I just get frustrated when I am like: hey, I have been using this thing for a long time and it is actually good! And folks are like, no I still think it is bad (but probably haven’t even tried it, yet) lol, what?

      • Avatar
        David Hayden November 15, 2017 1:24 pm #

        You’re wrong, Reece! Always! 😉

        I’ve got 4 or 5 Warlocks, and I do plan on throwing them out at some point. I think it will be fun, and I think I understand how to use the Conclave effectively. They won’t fit my tournament build, though.

        • Reecius
          Reecius November 15, 2017 2:22 pm #

          Yeah, just try it out before passing judgement. If it doesn’t work for you then it doesn’t work. Big deal. At least then you have an informed opinion and aren’t just brushing something off as garbage with no actual experience using it.

          • Avatar
            David Hayden November 16, 2017 11:13 am

            Oh, if it’s Eldar and I own, then it will get played. I won a lot of 7th edition games without a Wraithknight or jetbikes because I tried every unit and found things that worked that others ignored.

    • Avatar
      Laurence November 16, 2017 3:19 am #

      There are so many top-tier units that have the same issue, how are warlocks any different?

      There are a lot of ways you can mitigate that threat. Wave serpents and webway strike in particular are sure-fire ways of preventing the conclave getting alpha’d turn 1.

      If you’ve been failing to make them work, the first question you should ask yourself is whether you are playing them badly, not instantly blame the unit as poorly designed

  14. Avatar
    NinetyNineNo November 17, 2017 8:45 am #

    Here’s a fun fact for y’all: thanks to their Witchblades being essentially S:Yes, Warlock Conclaves are the most point-efficient way to kill a Warlord Battle Titan in the game. About 90 of them can destroy it in one round of combat with Jinx (be sure to send in Banshees to soak up Overwatch first), less with some Guide/Doom shenanigans. And that’s from combat alone, no need to Smite!

    This is never gonna happen, but it’s a fun numbers exercise.

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