Per our Twitch Subscribers’ request, tonight’s game is Blood Angels vs. Drukhari! Join us for the live game tonight at 5pm PST on our Twitch Channel.
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Jason’s Blood Angels army features a mix of mobility, hard hitting melee units, character support and firepower!
- 2,000pts
- Army Faction Keyword: Blood Angels
- Command Points: 10
| Unit | Force Org | Cost | # | Total | Weapons | Cost | # | Total | Total |
| Battalion | Command Points | 3 | |||||||
| Mephiston | HQ | 145 | 1 | 145 | 0 | ||||
| Lemartes | HQ | 129 | 1 | 129 | 0 | ||||
| Scouts | Troops | 11 | 5 | 55 | Bolters | 0 | 5 | 0 | |
| Scouts | Troops | 11 | 5 | 55 | Bolters | 0 | 5 | 0 | |
| Scouts | Troops | 11 | 5 | 55 | Bolters | 0 | 5 | 0 | |
| Vanguard | Command Points | 1 | |||||||
| Sanguinor | HQ | 170 | 1 | 170 | 0 | ||||
| Death Company with Jump Packs | Elites | 20 | 10 | 200 | Power Sword | 4 | 5 | 20 | |
| Vanguard Veterans with J.Packs | Elites | 18 | 10 | 180 | Plasma Pistol | 6 | 7 | 42 | |
| Vanguard Veterans with J.Packs | Elites | 18 | 10 | 180 | Plasma Pistol | 6 | 7 | 42 | |
| Battalion | Command Points | 3 | |||||||
| Sanguinary Priest with J.Pack | HQ | 86 | 1 | 86 | Power Axe | 5 | 1 | 5 | |
| Captain with J.Pack | HQ | 93 | 1 | 93 | Lightening Claws | 13 | 1 | 13 | |
| Tactical Squad | Troops | 13 | 5 | 65 | Heavy Flamer | 17 | 1 | 17 | |
| Razorback | Transport | 65 | 1 | 65 | Twin Assault Cannon | 35 | 1 | 35 | |
| Tactical Squad | Troops | 13 | 5 | 65 | Heavy Flamer | 17 | 1 | 17 | |
| Razorback | Transport | 65 | 1 | 65 | Twin Assault Cannon | 35 | 1 | 35 | |
| Tactical Squad | Troops | 13 | 5 | 65 | 0 | ||||
| Razorback | Transport | 65 | 1 | 65 | Twin Assault Cannon | 35 | 1 | 35 | |
| Totals | 68 | 1738 | 261 | 1999 | |||||
| Command Points: | 10 | Detachments: | 3 |
Reecius is bringing out the Drukhari again! This army features speed, hitting power and a nice anvil detachment in the Haemonculous and Talos detachment.
- 2,000pts
- Army Faction Keyword: Drukhari
- Command Points: 8
| Unit | Force Org | Cost | # | Total | Weapons | Cost | # | Total | Total |
| Battalion | Command Points | 3 | |||||||
| Archon | HQ | 54 | 1 | 54 | Agoniser | 4 | 1 | 4 | |
| 0 | Blaster | 15 | 1 | 15 | |||||
| 0 | Phantasm Grenades | 3 | 1 | 3 | |||||
| Succubus | HQ | 72 | 1 | 72 | Blast Pistol | 10 | 1 | 10 | |
| Wyches | Troops | 9 | 5 | 45 | Agoniser | 4 | 1 | 4 | |
| 0 | Blast Pistol | 10 | 1 | 10 | |||||
| Venom | Transport | 65 | 1 | 65 | Splinter Cannon | 15 | 2 | 30 | |
| Kabalite Warriors | Troops | 7 | 5 | 35 | Blaster | 15 | 1 | 15 | |
| 0 | Blast Pistol | 10 | 1 | 10 | |||||
| 0 | Agoniser | 4 | 1 | 4 | |||||
| Venom | Transport | 65 | 1 | 65 | Splinter Cannon | 15 | 2 | 30 | |
| Kabalite Warriors | Troops | 7 | 5 | 35 | Blaster | 15 | 1 | 15 | |
| 0 | Blast Pistol | 10 | 1 | 10 | |||||
| 0 | Agoniser | 4 | 1 | 4 | |||||
| Venom | Transport | 65 | 1 | 65 | Splinter Cannon | 15 | 2 | 30 | |
| Rvager | Heavy | 95 | 1 | 95 | Dark Lance | 20 | 3 | 60 | |
| Rvager | Heavy | 95 | 1 | 95 | Dark Lance | 20 | 3 | 60 | |
| Venom | Transport | 65 | 1 | 65 | Splinter Cannon | 15 | 2 | 30 | |
| Air Wing | Command Points | 1 | |||||||
| Razorwing Jetfighter | Flyer | 115 | 1 | 115 | Dark Lance | 20 | 2 | 40 | |
| 0 | Splinter Cannon | 15 | 1 | 15 | |||||
| Razorwing Jetfighter | Flyer | 115 | 1 | 115 | Dark Lance | 20 | 2 | 40 | |
| 0 | Splinter Cannon | 15 | 1 | 15 | |||||
| Razorwing Jetfighter | Flyer | 115 | 1 | 115 | Dark Lance | 20 | 2 | 40 | |
| 0 | Splinter Cannon | 15 | 1 | 15 | |||||
| Spearhead Detachment | Command Points | 1 | |||||||
| Haemonculus | HQ | 75 | 1 | 75 | Haemonculus Tools | 1 | 1 | 1 | |
| Talos | Heavy | 88 | 1 | 88 | Macro Scalpels | 4 | 2 | 8 | |
| 0 | Splinter Cannon | 15 | 2 | 30 | |||||
| Talos | Heavy | 88 | 1 | 88 | Macro Scalpels | 4 | 2 | 8 | |
| 0 | Splinter Cannon | 15 | 2 | 30 | |||||
| Talos | Heavy | 88 | 1 | 88 | Macro Scalpels | 4 | 2 | 8 | |
| 0 | Splinter Cannon | 15 | 2 | 30 | |||||
| Totals | 30 | 1375 | 624 | 1999 | |||||
| Command Points: | 8 | Detachments: | 3 |
My friend is a Blood Angels player and is struggling with the army. He thinks they are no good. Would you consider this list competitive for me to show him the VoD later and the list to help him out?
No good, huh? They’re incredibly good, actually.
This list is not what I would consider a hardcore army but it will perform well. It gives you a lot of what you need in 8th.
The Key is synergy and force multiplication. You use your mobility and characters to ramp up regular dudes and make them quite nasty. You also need shooting, too.
Reece since you playtesters blood Angels I’m curious what you might consider a hardcore list? I’m presently building a 2k army that has essentially the following:
Sanguinor
Lemartes
Corbulo
Sanguinary Priest on foot
2 x5 scouts
5 tacticals melta/combi melta
Rhino
2 stormravens
10 DC jump packs with power weapons
8 DC standard
DC dread
I feel it is a very strong list but what say you? I’m very interested to see how the game turns out tonight. Looking forward to tuning in
Reece, I trust your efforts and I trust your knowledge, but I keep seeing BA getting trounced.
And they are being used by vets with good skills.
I know you keep harping on them being good (everything is good apparently…), but I’d love to see more bat reps like this with them being used because what I’m seeing is not matching what you’re saying. Yes, you can synergize to make them lethal, but they are too easy to kill with shooting before they can get to grips. And you spend significant points on characters to make them lethal, but then you don’t have enough points for the units themselves. That list above has 30 MEqs doing the melee heavy lifting and I suspect your DE will be able to eliminate them fairly easily before they make much of a dent…
Eh, can’t play all the match-ups were getting asked to play, lol.
BA are very good. Frankie and I’ve been playing this ruleset for a long time. A lot of folks that are very good just haven’t caught up to the nuance of this edition. Give it time.
But as for getting shot up, are they running up the table? Doesn’t really work too well. if you go with loads of DC and Lemartes and Deep Strike, some of them will make the charge and they erase things. Also, and I seriously can’t say this enough, you MUST have LoS blocking terrain. You cna drop down out of sight, then make your assaults.
I do suspect a lot of the lag is the edition differences. I’m personally stoked to see Orks and IG working well in the ways I have always played them (huge swarms of guys). This edition change has been nothing but gold for me. That’s the chorus I hear everywhere…except BA players. I don’t think they are whinier or anything, just that the army is way different I guess.
Well, I will do my utmost to help get information out there to help BA players adapt! Their army plays the way it is represented in the fluff though, so it is funny to me. But, there are some subtle differences that add up to big playstyle changes.
Any insight into why they chose the least popular, and LAMEST fluff characters to be the ‘must-take’ aura-bubble givers? …Astorath the Grim and The Sanguinor? …yuck. Mephiston is also kinda cheesy fluff wise with an old and terrible model but at least he’s old school. Was this simply a sales thing?
Building an aura-bubble BA force is crazy expensive too.
Also, I’m trying to understand why the Angelus Boltgun is more expensive than the Plasma Pistol?
Or why the Furioso costs so much when almost any other dread is better?
Lol, the least popular and lamest characters? According to whom? And how does one measure that? =P
And neither of them is must take although the Sanguinor is close. Dante is also incredible and will be seen in many lists but does he not fall on your “lame character” list? haha
You don’t need all the auras, just the minimum to get what you want out of your units. I get by with just a Captain and Libby, often.
The points costs were there just to annoy you =P I kid of course, but as we’ve said numerous times, the points for each unit are worked up on a case by case basis and comparing them across codex or sometimes even within a codex won’t appear to have a logic to them in your eyes as they may have been approached in a different way than you are viewing them.
How is any other dread better than a Furioso in your opinion and why? That statement is unsupported.
Agreed the characters are subjective, but as a regular of BA forums/groups going back to Brother Edward’s BA ‘forum’ before forums were really a big deal… I’m of the somewhat learned opinion that the 5th edition characters are far less popular. As you say, YMMV.
Regarding points – it’s hard to image why you’d take the Angelus Boltgun over the Plasma Pistol even if they were the same cost – but the PP is 3 points cheaper and can even be used in CC.
Dreads, well here yah go. 🙂
1) Dreadnoughts – how do you factor that a Close-combat Dread should cost more than a Shooty or Mixed Dread? The former has highly situational usage (primarily against Hoards) and a few turns of just eating face before a possible contribution. You can add more cost (Forgeworld drop-pod or Stormraven) to make them more useful but a Shooty Dread is contributing each turn, against any foe, without any added cost.
2) Furioso versus the Ironclad. Both were once AV13, and now the IronClad is T8, while the Furioso is T7. Take the IronClad with Dread Chainfist and DCCW and he hits with better AP modifier and higher Damage, also re-rolling everything but 2’s. He costs less than the Furioso. The Furioso can move 2 additional inches though, ok.
3) Furioso versus the Contemptor. The Contemptor can move 3 additional inches, has 10 wounds and a 5++ Invulnerable save. He hits and shoots better than the Furioso until he’s lost 5 wounds – at which point he hits and shoots just as well as the Furioso. Once he’s down to 2 wounds he still fighting while the Furioso is long dead. He also has nasty 24″ range weapons he can fire en route to assault or not assault at all and still be very useful. He costs less than the Furioso. The Contemptor doesn’t come with a re-roll, ok – but he is a Space Marine, where aura bubble re-rolls are incredibly easy to come by, he also hits on 2+ right out of the box whereas the Furioso is a 3+.
4) Furioso versus any other shooty variety Dread. The Frag Cannon is really nice, especially being able to shoot after Advancing. But it’s still very short range, meaning you won’t contribute much early in the game. Any other shooty dread is already winning back points and doesn’t need to leave cover to be effective – they are also all cheaper than the Furioso.
Conclusion: Close-combat dreads, and especially the Furioso Dreadnought, have their uses but they are greatly over-costed.
Fair enough on the character thing. I personally really like Astorath and the Sanguinor, even know they were crafted by the Ward, haha.
The Angelus Boltgun may be overpriced, sure. Mistakes do get made but I cannot tell you why it was pointed where it was as I do not know (and honestly, couldn’t say if I did know, haha).
Punchy dreads are solid but the question is as always: how to get them there? That aside, the Furioso and the Ironclad have pros and cons but overall compare favorably. Some differences but not huge. The Death Company dread though, WOW, beast mode!
And just because something was AV13 does not mean it is T8 this edition. The Stalker was AV 12 and is T8, the Predator was Av13 and is T7. it is not a direct translation.
As an aside I’ll just say I’ve been using CC dreads since the first metal (2nd ed) Furioso model, and this [8th-ed] isn’t the first time they’ve been ‘more durable’. They’ve always been situational at best. They are cool and great in narrative games like the epic BA versus Orks or Nids battles, but never very useful in ‘all comers’ type “competitive” situations.
You have way more competitive experience than me (or most people probably) and I wonder how often you see melee dreads in winning lists? ..or at all?
The drop-pod really made a huge difference, though understand why they decided to squash that.
I’ve always been fine with, “well he’s good in narrative matchups” but I thought in this edition we were going to get something a little more even across the board and, maybe it’s just me, but I can’t see how these melee dreads, especially the Furioso are worth their points.
Well thanks for your interest and responses so far. I mean clearly, in a vacuum, dreadnoughts are better overall than they were in the last 2 editions at least by a good margin… and the Death Company Dread can wreck some face if you feed him his preferred diet. But he has the same issue every punchy dread has, getting there.
The Furioso was already priced, imo, far too high when compared to the IronClad and especially the Contemptor, and the DC dread is even more expensive, he also has the lowest Ld of any dread (perhaps not a big deal).
In the new movement phase I just don’t see even the slowest moving tanks waiting around for a Dreadnought to walk up and assault them, but again I agree there are opportunities for him to shine, I just believe they are less frequent than what you get for output from a shooty dread.
He still doesn’t hit as well as the Contemptor or as hard as the IronClad, he’s less durable than both; if he finally gets into your backfield he’ll be a major menace, and as I was saying prior, after many years of playing melee dreads – they can definitely do some work – but I don’t understand how they should cost what they do, when a shooty dread will always have a better chance of production.
Also, I’m wondering about the Blood Talons… how did they figure that a random D6-damage, is better than 3-damage with re-rolls for a lot less points?
It cost 50 points for a pair of Fists, 130 for a pair of Talons that will ‘average’ 3-damage anyway, with no re-roll????
I can’t help feeling like the BA army didn’t get the same care that others received in this book.
I’m also trying to find a purpose for regular Assault marines now – something that every BA player has tons of haha.
Space Marines are generally quite poor atm but still Blood Angels are probably the best among them (close call with Space Wolves)
Try using 2-3 squads Death Company (10-15 models each), equip them with jump packs, 1-2 hammers and 2-3 power weapons (I prefer axes) per unit and as Reecius already pointed out, buff them up…
Lemartes is almost mandatory for his synergy effects with DC and he has good CC output himself while still being quite affordable point-wise.
Add a Sanguinary Priest with jump pack and a Sanguinary Guard Ancient and keep all of them withing 6″ to each other for a strong melee hammer.
Sanguinor is nice aswell though I find him a little bit expensive for what he does… his +1A is the weakest of the buffs and he is 40 points more than Lemartes who is only marginally weaker as a fighter himself. Personally I would only consider him in games 2000 points an up.
After you got those fill up your points with units that “work” for vanilla marines: Assault Cannon Razorbacks, Gravcannon or Heavy Bolter Devastators, Combi-Flamer Veterans, Scouts, etc…
The number of those units should be atleast the number of all your DC + buff character units so you can always choose to let the later come in via deep strike.
Space Marines are quite poor? I have to ask what makes you say that as I really don’t see it. In our games Marines of all flavors do well, even Grey Knights although they do have it the hardest. They have every possible tool. What doesn’t work from Space Marines, in your opinion and why?
Vanilla Marines do NOT have every possible tool, not at all…
they completely lack cheap bodies
they also lack capable melee units
they are basically shooting the same weapons as AM (besides Grav where only the Cannon is a viable option) but can not even bring half as much because the bodies are about three times as expensive
Tactical Squads are probably the single worst troops choice in the game right now… nearly 200pts for 7 Bolters, a Missile Launcher, a Flamer and Combi-Weapon is just.
The Battle Company from 7th (which was one of the best list concepts ever made by GW because it had a competitive level of strength AND was fitting the fluff at the same time) is completely unplayable now as it lost all of its strength (ObSec, Rhino fire hatches, Drop Pods) while going up in points by nearly 100%.
Well, I guess YMMV, but I will say if you’re comparing what is to battle company that’s a bit silly. Battle company was a ham fisted way to make marines hang in there by giving them free stuff. I don’t think that is good game design at all as it means that fundamentally they weren’t pointed correctly in the first place and they ended up playing like a horde army which totally doesn’t reflect their lore. The battle company was reflective of their organizational structure in the lore, but that’s it. Plus the army took a long time to play. Don’t get me wrong, I liked it at the time, but I’m not sad to see it go.
Marines have more options than any other faction combined. They don’t have dirt cheap bodies but you don’t need that in 8th. Scouts are amazing and reasonably priced. Tactical Marines are good, you just don’t play them in 10 man units with the traditional kit at this point in time. But honestly, that’s never been good.
They do have good melee units, it’s just different now. If you mean no more deathstar super friends nonsense, then sure. But good riddance to that silly junk it was bad for the game. And again, like battle company, those are relics of 7th. 8th is a different game.
Anyway, you are free to see things how you choose. Marines are great in 8th, you just have to adapt to the new rules and play style. Having played loads with them, they’re an awesome combined arms army, and can hang with anyone.
Of course it is silly to compare it to a 7th Battle Company because, you know, after GW made a buttload of cash with selling bunches of Tactical Squads and Rhinos/Drop Pods last edition, it was obvious that those will be next to worthless in the new edition ebecause cash cow has to be milked:
“You payed nearly 500 bucks only for your Transports? Thats awesome! Here are the new rules, Rhinos and Drop Pods completely suck now but to make 100% sure you cannot ever use all of those models again, we also more than doubled their points!”
And 5 man Tactical Squads are of course purely awesome!
5 bodys with 3 Bolters, a special/heavy plus a combi for the total bargain of only 100 points – which other army doesnt dream of such a great unit?!
/sarcasm off
Battle Company wasnt a good game design?
So what IS a good game design then?
Making weak troop choices completely obsolete with the removal of ObSec and those cherry picking force org charts?
Vanilla SM just do NOT have good melee units (they didnt had any last edition either….) as they do NOT have any cheap bodies.
Saying they got “all the tools” is just plain and simply wrong.
And no, I was not talking about that deathstar-super-friends-nonsense which by the way only was a thing in the (rather weak) US-meta while being ridiculed in more competetive scenes like Germany or Poland – But its really funny how you say “good riddance to that silly junk” while the current game is more about aura-bubble-stacking than 7th has ever been…
No offense but this discussion is pointless anyways because according to you EVERY army is in great shape and well balanced – Its like asking a BWM salesman who builds the best cars or an Intel engineer which CPU one should get for his new PC…
Lol, you seem a little bitter here, friend =)
Yes, ObSec is not in the game much (still in Big Guns) but that does not mean troops are worthless, you are being a bit hyperbolic.
Anyway, feel free to think what you like. I get the impression you are not interested in having a discussion but in venting so hey, I hope you feel better.
Well the Blood Angels also lack cheap bodies… and like in previous editions they have some REALLY expensive but generally hard hitting melee units that will wreck most standard infantry – but also like in previous editions, against other dedicated assault troops they crumble – see Wolfen or Khorne Berzerkers etc…
I was wondering how long it takes for the shine to wear off and the old GW habits shining through. Making your previous purchases useless is a classic. So far this launch is way too much like the start of the Lego movie, with all of us singing “Everything is awesome”.
Hey I know these arent the right armies for this question, but I wanted to ask about tyranids and tau match up, and how they do against one another, long strike and 2 more hammer heads is deadly for big bugs, and then broadsides really clean up the little ones. How have tyranids faired against tau in your experience?
Nids are very, very strong. They can handle anything in the game. Vs. T’au, hordes work very well combined with a Malanthrope. T’au actually really struggle vs. -1 to hit armies unless they’re running lots of Characters.
But there’s no issue in that match-up if you properly use your reserves and hit them from multiple angles.
Thanks, I know our resident nid player has been doing well, but against Tau he keeps getting waxed.
Hmm. Interesting. If the tanks are a problem, Swarmy in Tyrannocyte+ Trygon+Hormagants will fix it. Trygos just obliterates things out of rserves with help from his homie Swarmlord.
Brutal drukk list: 3 razorwings, 4 venoms and 2 ravagers!
Yeah, it’s pretty nasty, haha.
Curious to see how the Talos will perform, they seem like a shadow of their former selves since they lack the power to get through armor anymore. Looking forward to seeing them in action!
They rock! With the Hamonculous nearby, I found the group of them to be one of the better aspects of the army. They tend to get ignored until they’re too close.
Looking forward to seeing the Sons of Sanguinius wreck face. I have an ongoing project to get my crappily-painted Blood Angels re-painted for the ITC. I’m not prioritizing it, since I need to be ready for the SoCal Open, and have a less time-consuming project I’m working on for that. Once that’s done, though, there will be blood. Blood Angels, that is!
Awesome! Stoked to see them at the event =)
Actually, the less time-consuming list I’m working on is not Blood Angels, but rather a Ynnari list made entirely of assorted jetbikes. I want to see how it does, and I don’t feel confident that I can finish getting my Blood Angels ready in time for the SoCal Open. Lack of time, and everything. You can bet they’ll be ready for next year, though!
That is a solid plan. And a Ynnari Jetbike army actually sounds pretty bad ass.
Lawrence from table top tactics ran the ynnari Dark Eldar + Eldar jetbike list and got top9 at LVO earlier this year.
Yes he did, quite the feet =)
would love to see a wych cult list instead of more flyer spam. Show us how to use hellions properly or how wyches are so improved over prior iterations? Thanks for considering.
We don’t have the models on hand, actually. I have a full unit of Hellions but don’t have them around =(
That said, you can make all 3 flavors of Drukhari work.
Hellions look really interesting as it seems they can now ride in dedicated transports. That could really help protect them as they move up the field and get stuck in.
Time will tell if more just taking more wyches/kabalites in a boat will work out better cost-wise.
Hey FLG crew(Actually, mainly Reece and Frankie…)
It seems that most of the comments on new posts are “I can’t figure out how to play my army, do they work”?
Now, moving past the idea that people want an instant download of all the information on how to play an army in what is essentially a brand new game, it might save you guys some time to write a tactics article for each new faction? Not the faction focus articles, but rather a “Hey guys, we’ve played this for many moons. Here’s how we combated knights, how we typically played the army, and what we noticed may be tough matchups”. Idk if that’s been planned between the playtesters yet or not, but it would certainly be appreciated by some*
*Not me of course. I’ve already mastered everything. Game on Frankie
James Thomas. Thanks for the next episode of my podcast.
Haha, yoink!
Lol, yes, Frankie just wins, he doesn’t write =)
But yes, we’ve been meaning to write tactics articles but we straight up haven’t had time. We certainly will though, soon.
Great bat report. I think the real unsung hero of the new BA the seth and the flesh tearers. You loose buffs from most named characters but in a rhino rush list he is such a great force multiplier. I’ve ran seth with vanguard vets with plasma pistols and death company in rhinos and have had great success. I’ve found assaulting rhinos provides a ton of tactical options.
Yeah, Seth is so cheap! Great buff character in a Flesh tearers army.