Reecius wrote a faction review on Imperial Knights! Read it, here.
What do you all think about the new Imperial Knights?
Posted on May 19, 2017
in 40K, News
Tags: 40K news
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Trygons for the win
They put the hurt on things now, especially high wound units like Knights.
Nice to see the increased number ‘shots’ for explosive weapons targeting larger units confirmed, suspected that would make it over from AoS 🙂
Holy 24 wounds batman… good thing smaller weapons can affect them now. Even a MEQ with a power axe would wound on 5+ in combat and it would rend.
Also the fact there is a damage chart is a nice balancing factor. Before they were totally immune to vehicle damage so they were the same with 1 HP as they were with 6. Now a few wounds from a meltagun and suddenly your knight is starting to malfunction a bit.
Yeah, the degrading profile is a nice change to the game, IMO.
Superheavies degrading, whole smaller vehicles do not, is an interesting reversal from last edition.
And one that makes a lot more sense IMO. A smaller vehicle can’t withstand too much of a barrage. It’s just going to be rendered useless.
Larger vehicles, on the other hand, will slowly lose some functionality but the vehicle as a whole will still function.
Most important bit is the Lord of War detachment, imo.
Bring on the 3 Taunar armies!
I thought the same thing!
Does this mean I can run my 2 knights and a shadowsword as imperial faction?
Yup! But you get no extra benefits for being Imperium faction as the recent Q&A revealed.
Depends on whether the shadow sword is in the imperial knight faction specifically as the super heavy detachment states they must be from the same faction.
Both Knights and the Shadowsword will have the Imperium faction, so you could run it as that faction, just with no bonuses.
I thought you got the benefits of the common faction – so if you took 2 knights & a baneblade you would get Imperium options, but not Militarum or Knights.
As far as I can tell, Anon, that’s correct, but the bonus if your Faction is just one of the “top-level” ones like “Imperium” or “Chaos” is none.
In the Q&A they confirmed that just being Imperium faction provides no extra bonuses as it’s so broad.
Any hints on point costs?
23 Power..so I imagine someone can make an educated guess based on the SM squad power level. We have no idea what various weapons and upgrades will cost on anything though.
No points but we do have the power. For comparison, a squad of Tactical Marines is 5 “power” but an Imp Knight is 23. So almost 5x as expensive (keeping in mind the power system means that would be a fully upgrades squad of tacticals). That puts their ratio close to where it was last edition.
Working backwards on power level compared to the tactical marines, about 300 but power level obviously doesn’t take into account specific upgrades.
Power is for a fully loaded squad which is how it accounts for upgrades. Power 5 for the tacticals would include what is typically in the box and allowed so assume a special and a heavy weapon.
That would put the points on an IK at least where they were before, possibly a little higher?
Technically I’d say power is for an average squad as it’s meant more for casual play not optimising every unit (otherwise Rubrics would be too much power for a basic unit to account for all of them having the flamers option). But in the case of tactical marines with pretty limited and obvious upgrades you’re probably right.
No points have been revealed for any units yet, to my knowledge.
They have said 13 points for a tactical marine, 7 points for a grav pistol and I think 27 for a multi melta, in the points and power level article, that’s it though.
Ah, OK, thanks for the clarification.
So just some rough calculations:
Standard Marine squad is Power level 3 for five marines, each of whom are 13 points. Add 10 points for the sergeant and you get 75 points.
Knight Errant is power level 23.
Do the proportional math and you get 575 points for the Errant. This probably isn’t the final number but don’t be surprised if these big models take a significant points hike.
Anyways, fun speculation while we wait.
Tacticals are power level 5. Not power level 3.
But you have to also take into account that, per the rubric marine datasheet, upgrades are free when using power levels. Meaning power level 5 is more-or-less balanced for them taking any upgrades they want.
Technically, the same would be true for the Knight as well. Missiles, etcetc
That’s true but Knights typically don’t have quite the same upgrades since there is a different profile for each loadout. Basically just the carapace-mounted weapons (although those were pretty ridiculously expensive last edition).
Whereas tacticals have a whole array of possible upgrades. Close combat, ranged, sergeants, etc.
Does it look like equal points rubrics could take down a knight?
Certainly not in one turn. The Knight would likely win that fight. But the fact it’s even a discussion is much better than where we were at last edition.
Rubric Marines are made for killing mid-tier units with good saves (AKA MEQs). However, in the last edition this meant they were just straight up useless against anything with a 2+ save or with high toughness. But not so anymore. Their rend does work against 2+ units and they can even threaten tough targets like a Knight (especially with the sweet new soulreaper cannon).
An equal points worth of Rubric Marines and a Knight should always swing the way of the Knight because that’s not what Rubrics are made to kill. But the fact they can at least do SOMETHING is a huge improvement will make a 1k sons army infinitely improved. Pack a few heavy weapons to deal with knights and then your standard guys can help get a few wounds as well.
oh crap, my bad.
adjust math and it’s 345pts. But yeah I was assuming it wouldn’t be an exact conversion for that very reason. Just trying to get in the ballpark. But of course I flub the premise numbers…
I think as power levels are meant for more casual play they’re based on an average unit rather than an optimised one, otherwise the power level for a unit like Rubrics that can all have a special weapon upgrade would be way too much for that unit without them.
Standard Space Marine squad was power level 5.
Do the math with that and you get 345 points. 30 points less than what we have now.
Granted we have no idea how much upgrades will cost.
yep, remembered wrong, my bad. Desk job has made me brain dead haha.
Errant is MeltaCannon + Chainsword for 23 power levels. The question is whether the Gallant will be less power levels and the Crusader will be more power levels. 7th knights had the Crusader being decisively better than the other variants. I am going to speculate here, 20 power level for gallant, 26 for crusader.
Rubrics are 8 power level with +6 power for each additional 5 marines up to a 20 man, 20 rubric squad.
Was a little surprised to see Knights not at a higher toughness. I guess wounds are really the main defining difference for the big stuff.
T8 is about where I expected it. With the Annihilation Barge going from AV11 to T6, and Dread from AV12 to T7, the Knight going from AV13 to T8 fits perfectly.
Also wraithknight is t8 which is a pretty comparable unit
I thought the Dreadnought was t8? I may be remembering wrong, tho.
I just went back and double-checked. It’s T7.
Personally had Knigghts pegged at 22 wounds and 10′ movement. Glad to finally have the full picture on that.
Curious if we’ll see a detachment for a single Knight or not, or how you get one without taking 3.
More detachments to come I know I know.
I believe it was on their facebook page that someone asked and they said there would be other detachments with just a single LoW in them. This is mostly for people who want to field ALL LoW armies (like the old Knights Detachment)
We already saw battalion and such had a LoW slot. Remember you just have to match keywords, but more specific keywords are going to get more bonuses aka AM faction vs imperium faction. I think they said each detachments units has to be from the same book too
The battalion detachment did *not* have a LoW slot. None of the original three detachments they revealed (battalion, patrol, brigade) included LoW in them. They had HQ, troops, elites, fast attacks, heavies, and Flyers in varying amounts.
Oh right flyers have their own slot now. We need fortifications too.
Yep. And I suspect we’ll get it. We’ve seen 4 of the basic 14 detachments. In my opinion, we will get one for each force org slot that either lets you spam it (A la 3-5 LoW) or at the very least makes you take very little alongside it. But most will give less command points than a comparable balanced detachment.
On top of that we’ll get a fortifications detachment and a few other ones that let you skew toward specific types of units.
I feel like a junkie. I just want me Tyranid fix. This article was a tease, a TEASE! A chance for a Trygon to kill a Knight in a turn? OhmygodIneedtoknownowwhyaren’tyoutellingmetellmenowohpleaseohpleaseohplease!
As a Nid player I had to slip that in there as I have done it in testing =P
But Reece… was it super, super lucky? Like only 4 attacks per Trygon lucky? Or did you get more like 8 attacks.
Just wink once for each attack, I know GW is watching.
Any chance you can fill us in when the tyranid trailer is coming out?
I feel as thought races like the tyranids and orks haven`t felt love in the longest time.
In fact I read a study once that something crazy like 75% of tyranid players are taking some form of anti-depressant:D
I unfortunately can`t find the link at the moment..
Most importantly, this Detachment allows me to field 5 Obelisks at long last, BAO will not know what hit it!!
Enough of this! Now I want to know about Orks!
Just a little longer my friend =)
I gotta feeling that titans will be very vulnerable to Close range elites and CC in general. See that big nasty Imperial Knight over there..No problem!
Deppstrike some terminators 9`away, Blast away with your 5+ combi meltas (S8, D6 dmg, -4 AP) and hope for a successfull charge.
next up will be 5+ powerfists in the fight phase (S8 D3 dmg -3 AP but -1 to hit)
All of a sudden these titans don`t seem as scary anymore…
is not that easy, u will hit/wound average 50% of times and he had tons of wounds, you need some more resources to get down an Ik right now.
Deppstrike is when you make a mediocre movie based entirely around how quirky and visual you are without remembering to give it a plot, right?
“Deppstriking models must be placed nine inches away from box office success, but receive a sequel.”
I thought that was Burtonstriking. There is a lot of overlap, tho, so I may be confused.
I’m so down to see orks back in top lists! I remember good my to games day in LA 2008 GW employee led a Wauugh chant at the beginning of the tournament to get everyone excited
I like the detachment option. Using existing points and unit designations (troop, LoW, etc…), I can run a Battalion Detachment and a LoW Detachment for my Eldar at 1850 points. If 2000 points become more of a standard in matched play, it gives me a bit more wiggle room.
But, this assumes point values are close to current point values.
LO, I AM UNTO A _G_O_D_.
I call cost hike.
Why stop at 5?
Two low détachement, 6 wraith Knights + double CPs
I really hope there’s something preventing this.
I hadn’t thought of that. I have 4 and an Avatar. One more Wraithknight and I could try this…
Do you think they will be a competitive stand alone army?
Don’t know how competitive, but I’ve got an Iyanden army and it could tie into the fluff as they rely on Wraith-units to fight due to low numbers of living Eldar.
I am really hoping 8th edition balances things out. Locally, we had a rule of no more than one LoW in an army with Imperial Knight armies as the exception. I like the Wraithknight model and would love to be able to field multiples.
Plus, It would be easy for me to play and keep track of what’s what.
What kind of wound tracking strategies were used in the playtesting? 24 wounds is enough that I would need a pen and paper. Or 1/5 wound colored rings.
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