ITC 40k 2016 Season 3rd Quarter Poll

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It’s that time. Cast your vote and let your voice be heard. Just to reiterate, the vast majority of the GW 40k FAQ is being integrated into the ITC 40k FAQ, these questions are on the points of contention.

Click here to cast your vote.

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About Reecius

The fearless leader of the intrepid group of gamers gone retailers at Frontline Gaming!
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GRUNT
GRUNT
5 years ago

So does this mean that the full FAQ is being taken, except where the ITC FAQ trumps it?

1PlusArmour
5 years ago
Reply to  GRUNT

Believe that’s the case, yep.

Hiveminded
Hiveminded
5 years ago

Does this mean that the toe-in-cover rule change will be adopted without a vote? Maybe I’m wrong, but I thought this was a rule that had been voted on in the past and people voted to keep toe-in-cover for MCs but not GCs.

Heldericht
Heldericht
5 years ago
Reply to  Hiveminded

Yeah it will be adopted from the GW FAQ so you don’t get toe in cover for MCs and you need to be 25% obscured for a 5+ cover.

I think it’s a good thing overall for the game.

On the flip side if your tall models can see over other intervening models the target doesn’t get cover saves either anymore per GW faq.

So it evens out.

N.I.B.
N.I.B.
5 years ago
Reply to  Heldericht

No toe in cover for MCs and you need to be 25% obscured for a 5+ cover, a good thing for the game indeed!
Those pesky Tyranid ground MC armies were everywhere, stomping everything and ruining everyone’s fun. Glad to see no one in their right mind will take anything but Flyrants from now on.

Leonix
Leonix
5 years ago
Reply to  N.I.B.

Yes it will hurt Nids who weren’t a big deal, but Wraith Knights and Riptide Wings are.

Jural
Jural
5 years ago
Reply to  Hiveminded

Yeah- this basically makes most Tyranid MC unplayable, but overall pretty good for the game that ITC and GW converging.

Hopefully a new Codex comes along some day and we get 2+ Carnifex, or more wounds, or something….

1PlusArmour
5 years ago
Reply to  Reecius

Totally on board with this! The closer the world gets to consensus on 40k comp the better it is for everyone!

Cephalobeard
Cephalobeard
5 years ago
Reply to  1PlusArmour

Couldn’t agree more. Good choice, guys.

Heldericht
Heldericht
5 years ago

Man, you guys lumped the Supremacy in with Reaver Titans and Warhounds…

Of course that’s not going to pass. Other formats allow the Supremacy and don’t allow the other 2 because they aren’t in the same class.

That wasn’t a fair representation of what people have been asking for… You should have put the Supremacy question as it’s own question with limits to its weapon loadout.

Not cool.

Heldericht
Heldericht
5 years ago
Reply to  Heldericht

Having said that, I’m happy with the other stuff you guys put up and I appreciate you letting us re-vote on stuff that got changed.

Adam (RUMBL)
5 years ago
Reply to  Heldericht

I would rather face a warhound than the Tau’nar any day of the week.

pleasantnoodles
pleasantnoodles
5 years ago
Reply to  Heldericht

Not only that, but the question does nothing to define what a titan unit consist of. What’s the criteria here?

pleasantnoodles
pleasantnoodles
5 years ago
Reply to  Reecius

I think you need to reread your own question:

“For the 2017 Season (after the LVO 2017), would you prefer to allow ‘Titan’ style units in the ITC such as the Ta’unar Supremacy Suit, Revenant Titan, Warhound Titan, etc.? ”

It says “Titan style unit… such as…etc”, note the “such as” and “etc”. The question is in no way a closed list of what would be allowed, nor does it call out the Reaver as still being banned. Or are Reavers not “Titan style” units?

pleasantnoodles
pleasantnoodles
5 years ago
Reply to  Reecius

No, thank you for doing all this, it’s amazing what you guys have accomplished and will accomplish. I really believe in the ITC and the community it has built, which is why I’m being so hard.

The more important issue here is the vagueness, not the Tau’nar. I legitimately thought the Reaver would be allowed (which I’m against) due to the open ended nature of how it was worded, but if it was worded with the exact models being proposed, or the stat-line criteria, I would likely have voted differently (I’m for Warhound-ish units). I just don’t want us to waste one of the rare polling opportunities we get throughout the year is all.

NovaStar
NovaStar
5 years ago
Reply to  Heldericht

Exactly the Warhound Titan is steaming pile of 💩 Compared to the Tau’nar

abusepuppy
5 years ago
Reply to  NovaStar

Is four Str D large blasts “steaming pile of shit”? Really? I would say the Tau’nar is better most all of the time, but it’s not like the Warhound is even slightly bad. It’s still a really tough superheavy with Void Shields and excellent weapon options for a price that is a lot lower than what most factions pay. It’s even a lot tougher than the Tau’nar against some weapon types.

pleasantnoodles
pleasantnoodles
5 years ago

Well played sir, lumping the tau’nar into a blanket vote for titans to be allowed. Of course that won’t pass. The big question becomes, where’s the line for a “Titan” stat-line? Does the Poryphyrion count if/when it gets ported to nromal 40k (as FW has said it will be)?

It’s completely different to allow a Reaver in vs a Tau’nar and this question makes it seem like you can’t have one without the other.

Alexander
Alexander
5 years ago
Reply to  Reecius

Reece I totally side with you on that it’s common sense. If you just put the tau unar on the vote it will never pass in a million years. Because all the other races will not want to fight against it. But if they were allowed to have a warhound titan or revenant titan then people would definitely consider this to pass. Because all races would have access to big units like that of its own. I personally like the idea of allowing units like the warhound and supreamacy suits in the game. It would shake up the meta which the competitive meta needs every once in a while this gives non battle company players with raw Firepower a chance vs mass objective secured.

elwrath
elwrath
5 years ago
Reply to  Alexander

maybe, but more likely it just means more deathstars 🙁

Aidan
Aidan
5 years ago

Great to see some of the format questions addressed. Are you all going to address the pink horrors? Or will you see how they fold out in the competitive scene?

Turok117
Turok117
5 years ago
Reply to  Reecius

It’s been out like two weeks and they already FAQ’d it?! It’s been more than a year and they still haven’t FAQ’d Doom of Mymeara. Curse you Forge World! Kinda funny how different the two sides of the company work sometimes.

Will
Will
5 years ago

Is this all that will be changing? No poll on how gw is changing void shield or grenades and such. Are the rules that gw made sticking just so people know what is to come after the results are in.

pleasantnoodles
pleasantnoodles
5 years ago
Reply to  Will

Not only that, but I can’t help but note a lack of vote on Pink Horror splitting on here.

C-Stock
C-Stock
5 years ago
Reply to  Reecius

Reece the GW FAQ doesn’t address the issues that make pinks so broken though. I know heaps of players have expressed wanting pinks to be addressed in the ITC so why aren’t they up for a vote?

Cephalobeard
Cephalobeard
5 years ago
Reply to  C-Stock

Because GW addressed it. It hasn’t shown to be a problem, beyond people thinking it’s a problem. I imagine if, over the coming weeks, it proves to actually BE a problem, it’ll be addressed next time.

SaltyJohn
5 years ago
Reply to  C-Stock

GW looked at the issue with Pink Horros, in no small part due to a certain video ::cough,cough:: and wrote an FAQ addressing the most egregious part of the split rule.

The split rule only continues to be an issue among the basement dwellers and arm chair generals who like to stir up angst online and influence formats they won’t ever play in. As someone who has played with and against the new split rule on multiple occasions that’s my anecdotally confirmed opinion.

C-Stock
C-Stock
5 years ago
Reply to  C-Stock

The Corsair shoot move power on overwatch wasn’t shit to be a problem. Neither was the Corsair teleport power. They were immediately nerfed in the ITC with nobody play testing at all.

So why the double standard?

zyekian
5 years ago
Reply to  C-Stock

“Just assault them” is being used as the reason why pinks are acceptable.

In the Corsair case where it was very hard to assault their units, “just shoot them” (they’re T3 4+ units) was not an acceptable justification for leaving the rule RAW though.

Corsairs had their teleport power nerfed because it made it easy-ish to get one no-scatter deep strike assault off for an Eldar or DE unit…. But GSC can reliably do it now as well as other armies to varying degrees.

IMO C-Stock has a point, this is a double standard. The Corsair nerfs are now completely arbitrary and unfair in the new meta.

Will
Will
5 years ago
Reply to  Will

I mean from changes that you guys have made in the past, are those still overwritting the current final draft of the GW FAQ and these new poll changes will be added on top of that?

1PlusArmour
5 years ago

The Culexus question is very perplexing. Why not vote on allowing CTA again rather than changing clearly written rules for allies? I feel like the added variety would be a good thing if anything.

1PlusArmour
5 years ago
Reply to  Reecius

Thanks for clarifying. I do think it’s a little dangerous to leave those sorts of questions to only “large volumes of votes”. It may be worthwhile to come up with some sort of threshold (think the white house petition getting 100,000 signatures for a response) to eliminate any bias, but also to encourage people to align on ideas as they are sent in and understand exactly why things are included (or why they are not).

Shaz06
Shaz06
5 years ago

Will the GW FAQ be adopted before or after the LVO? And how will potential faction FAQs that are released between now and the LVO be handeled? Thanks for all of the hard work.

Shaz06
Shaz06
5 years ago
Reply to  Reecius

Sounds good. Don’t let the haters get you down.

elwrath
elwrath
5 years ago
Reply to  Reecius

Is GW planning on FAQing the newer factions soon enough to not effect this cut-off? GSC, wrath of magnus as a whole (not just pinks), traitor legions, and imperial agents?

Codi
Codi
5 years ago

Wow Reecius, how many times are you going to have to type, “The GW FAQ will be rolled into the ITC…”?!?!

Shaz06
Shaz06
5 years ago
Reply to  Codi

I understand that the GW FAQ will be rolled into the FAQ. I don’t believe that with the LVO being under two months away, that asking about be timeline is an unfair question. Perhaps it was covered somewhere else and I missed it. If that is the case, I apologize for wasting your time.

RauPow
RauPow
5 years ago

Why no vote on Battle Brothers to Allies of Convenience? People have brought it up over the course of the year in the comments sections of your articles. I would like to see one way or another the community vote, as it seems a simple solution to address Super Friend Style Deathstars.

Dakkath
Dakkath
5 years ago
Reply to  RauPow

Count me confused as well why this wasn’t in there/

mediocre gamer
mediocre gamer
5 years ago
Reply to  RauPow

I agree, I wish we had seen a vote on deathstar reduction ideas that have been repeatedly suggested over this year like nixing battle brothers, limiting 1 psychic buff per unit at a time, limiting number of ICs that can join a unit, etc.

Additionally, I’ve never seen people clamor for more than one fortification, what I’ve seen repeatedly requested is fortification networks.

Chandler
5 years ago
Reply to  mediocre gamer

There is a vote on death star reduction. It’s called no look out sirs on a stomp roll of a 6.

This mechanic is built into the game by default to scare people away from bringing death stars as things like Wraithknights and Imperial Knights are far more common to encounter over the course of an event than a death star.

Removing a star with a stomp of a 6 is a legit way to end them. I have seen it happen many times when ruled per BRB. Vote for the stomp!

Dakkath
Dakkath
5 years ago
Reply to  Chandler

Well count me among the players who don’t like “Bring a superheavy” being the only solution to deathstars. I’d prefer to have neither of them.

Virgil82
Virgil82
5 years ago
Reply to  Chandler

Because ‘Play an army with a Superheavy Walker’ is not a good, or universally available solution to deathstars?

abusepuppy
5 years ago
Reply to  Virgil82

Yeah, a lot of armies don’t even HAVE a unit that can Stomp. And even for those that do, it’s not a very reliable solution because you can’t count on getting that magic 6 every time (and you often only get one chance to do so, since most deathstars will eat a superheavy or garganuan alive.)

Jural
Jural
5 years ago
Reply to  Virgil82

I’m guessing the idea wasn’t to give everyone an option to take out deathstars with a lucky 6. I think the idea was to make it less practical for deathstars overall and thus changing the meta?

I guess it’s fine for now, but as long as “Army of the Imperium” are one giant BB faction, every new “Imperial” Codex drop risks throwing the game out of balance with minimal tweaks and model investment.

Will Grant
Will Grant
5 years ago

May want to extend Culexus to include Masque/Servo SKulls and a couple of other things that are basically all purpose like VSG/comms relay.

Still no reason CTA should be banned. Adding 3x flyrants now isn’t near what it was when that vote happened. Most pure builds are so much better.

I barely saw any CTA at WZA, but it would help some of the armies that don’t readily have access to reliable stomp and obsec (necrons).

Heldericht
Heldericht
5 years ago
Reply to  Will Grant

VSG can be taken by all factions already. Necrons and other xenos/chaos can take Renegade knights for stomps.

Servo skulls would be nice but we dont even know if they’ll be a thing anymore after imperial agents removed them.

Yeah CTA is odd, marines summon demons, it breaks fluff already.

Adam (RUMBL)
5 years ago
Reply to  Will Grant

Servo Skulls are gone!!!

abusepuppy
5 years ago
Reply to  Adam (RUMBL)

You still are allowed to use the “old” Inquisition book, though, so they’re not actually gone.

Adam (RUMBL)
5 years ago
Reply to  abusepuppy

That’s some bullshit. 🙂

Can I use other old books too while I’m at it? I’m sure sisters will want to use their old book. How about the old chaos book with the new legion rules? Seems legit to me.

abusepuppy
5 years ago
Reply to  Adam (RUMBL)

I think it’s pretty stupid too, but that’s what GW says and it’s been their party line on many of the “update” books for like the better part of a year now, I think.

Happy_Inquisitor
Happy_Inquisitor
5 years ago
Reply to  Adam (RUMBL)

So long as the Inquisition Codex stays on sale it is going to be really hard to rule it as invalid. Right now both are available to buy on Black Library.

Jural
Jural
5 years ago
Reply to  Will Grant

CtA weren’t voted down for competitive reasons, but player preference. Not my choice, but I respect it.

Drachnyen
Drachnyen
5 years ago

Hey Reece, Frankie and other ITC/Frontline staff,

Just wanted to tell you guys kudos and a big thank you for everything you guys are doing.

It’s much appreciated!

Darin
Darin
5 years ago

I was hoping for a grenade vote……. This mean that we are all laying down and accepting the one dude rule?

Leonix
Leonix
5 years ago
Reply to  Darin

Nades were being abused, as well as hurting units that were already hurting. Let’s see how this plays out first.

Adam (RUMBL)
5 years ago
Reply to  Leonix

Totally agree. Anything to help monstrous creatures actually see the light of day, haha.

abusepuppy
5 years ago
Reply to  Adam (RUMBL)

I think the problem with it, from my view at least, is that it doesn’t really help most monstrous creatures that much- at least, not the ones people want it to help. Carnifexes and Keepers of Secrets and other foot MCs are still garbage, even with the changes to grenades; on the other hand, Wraithknights, Riptides, and other such units get more powerful because of it. More relevantly, it also makes the multitudinous vehicles of Battle Company harder to destroy, which I feel is another step in the wrong direction.

I’d love it if all it did was make Dreadnoughts and foot MCs stronger, but I don’t think that’s what it will actually do.

Leonix
Leonix
5 years ago
Reply to  abusepuppy

Depends on your point of view, I do agree the big guys will still be a pain, but as a tank user I am happy to see them stronger in general… Gladius is a problem of free stuff, not of armour being too tough.

Samuel Sanchez
Samuel Sanchez
5 years ago

Messed up my stomp question hopefully it’s not decided by 1 vote. Should have voted to disallow LOS! Vs overrun. If you can change it feel free.

Regardless nice FAQ to clean up the changes after GW FAQ.

Red
Red
5 years ago

Once again great job. Would you guys conceded for the next vote allowing fortification networks so long as they count as one of your allowable detachments as well as possibly putting the 1500 point level for the points level vote.

Adam (RUMBL)
5 years ago
Reply to  Red

Did fortification networks survive the transition to the new book, or are they just formations now?

Red
Red
5 years ago
Reply to  Adam (RUMBL)

Yes, fortification networks are in planetary onslaught.

abusepuppy
5 years ago

I’m really surprised there’s nothing on Pink Horrors in here. I guess we can all look forward to seeing lots and lots and lots of demons at the top tables.

Chandler
5 years ago
Reply to  abusepuppy

They are going with GW FAQ on Pink Horrors and Split which I feel is more than a fair way to go with it. Some might disagree though. I think the clarifications they made certainly make it less scary than the original rule made it seem.

abusepuppy
5 years ago
Reply to  Chandler

The only thing the GW FAQ changes is that they aren’t ObSec, yeah? That doesn’t really solve much of any of the concerns about them. (And, I mean, no Maelific, but that hardly makes a difference when you have so many other characters who can summon effectively.)

Ytook
Ytook
5 years ago
Reply to  abusepuppy

Also that the entire unit has to be set up within range so no conga lining them, and if you wipe out the unit then you set up the new unit right away rather than the end of the phase.

Samuel sanchez
Samuel sanchez
5 years ago
Reply to  Ytook

Also you can only place as many horrors that will legally fit within 6in. If you spawn more than you can place within 6in of the unit. Including inability to place due to terrain or due to the enemy model being within 2in. Then you can’t place the horrors.

C-Stock
C-Stock
5 years ago
Reply to  Ytook

You can’t place a few of them. What if the unit is medium or large? The space within 6″ is quite large.

C-Stock
C-Stock
5 years ago
Reply to  abusepuppy

I totally agree, the GW FAQ solves next to nothing.

There has been a ton of player sentiment aimed at solving the problems with Pinks… and Reece says that he puts things up for a vote when there are a number of people expressing problems with the issue.

So why isn’t there a poll question on flat-broken nonsense with pinks?

SaltyJohn
5 years ago
Reply to  C-Stock

Because it isn’t flat broken nonsense.

C-Stock
C-Stock
5 years ago
Reply to  C-Stock

According to whom?

winterman
winterman
5 years ago
Reply to  abusepuppy

It also confirmed they didn’t have maelific.

Trasvi
Trasvi
5 years ago
Reply to  Chandler

I don’t think people were concerned about the rules: they were (are) concerned about how many bodies, units, and warp charges a unit of horrors puts on the table now for no increase in cost. We’re looking for a format change, not an FAQ.

Gman
Gman
5 years ago

Will changes to things like invis still be in effect?

Alexander
Alexander
5 years ago

As for Death from the sky’s vote. I felt like it was ok JUST as long as it’s ONLY the dataslates and formations. As I’d feel like flyers would be really good to bring. But all the extra rules you need to remember is horrible.

C-Stock
C-Stock
5 years ago

I haven’t taken the poll yet to see the Titans question. But I assume it says if Taunars are allowed in then all other ITC nerfs to powers are repealed to go along with it?

Or are we expected to fight Taunars with nerfed electro-displacement/etc, with one hand tied behind our backs? People could bring Taunars but Corsairs can’t use their teleport psychic power at full strength as a counter?

I’m not sure this was thought through. Titans are dumb things that eliminate the need for strategy and thinking as it is. But in the ITC meta they would be MUCH more powerful than they are as-written.

abusepuppy
5 years ago
Reply to  C-Stock

Yeah, those poor, poor Space Marine armies with no way to hurt a Tau’nar. Not a single effective tool in their arsenal. Not a single weapon that they have access to that gets five shots and ignores armor and wounds on a 2+. Just absolutely nothing they can do.

Let’s all take a moment to cry for the Space Marine players. They never get anything nice.

Cephalobeard
Cephalobeard
5 years ago
Reply to  abusepuppy

Casual reminder you’re continuing to be Toxic to the community.

abusepuppy
5 years ago
Reply to  Cephalobeard

Casual reminder that you have contributed absolutely nothing of meaning to the conversation with any of your posts.

Cephalobeard
Cephalobeard
5 years ago
Reply to  abusepuppy

You’re welcome to think my posts aren’t contributing. It does not change the fact that your attitude is cancerous to this website. Your inability to handle that critique is expected, but I hope you’re able to realize you’re objectively being an asshole to people, regularly, for no reason.

Dakkath
Dakkath
5 years ago
Reply to  abusepuppy

AP may be a jerk sometimes, but he is right most of the time. And he does his best to help out in the community, which is why he writes articles for LFG and gives advice to less-seasoned players.

Cephalobeard
Cephalobeard
5 years ago
Reply to  abusepuppy

I’m definitely not saying he isn’t right. Not about to say he doesn’t know what he’s talking about. He could just stand to be nicer about it.

Mike
Mike
5 years ago
Reply to  abusepuppy

I agree. Please quit berating people for having a different opinion. This isn’t dakka.

abusepuppy
5 years ago
Reply to  abusepuppy

I’m not “berating people for having a different opinion,” I’m pointing out ways in which I consider their opinion to be flawed. The post in question was complaining that players (and Space Marine players in particular, by implication) would have no effective ways to deal with the Tau’nar were it allowed in the game because of other nerfs that ITC had made to psychic powers and whatnot. But that line of argument was, I felt, flawed in the extreme because it ignores the fact that Space Marines are better-equipped to kill a Tau’nar than any other army in the game.

Yes, I did it in a way that used humor to mock the idea that Marines had no way to hurt the Tau’nar- that isn’t the same as mocking the player, or insulting them, or harassing them. People can have bad ideas without being bad people. Using humor and hyperbole as devices in conversation and debate isn’t “toxic,” or else practically the entirety of American literary tradition is already and always has been completely toxic. Just typing “BEEP BOOP I AM ROBOT THIS IS MY OPINION END STATEMENT” is boring bordering on unreadable and a big part of being a competent writer is making what you write interesting.

Your standard for “being toxic” seems to be saying literally anything other than “what a good idea I agree with you wholeheartedly”- and honestly, I consider an absolute stifling of the ability of people to freely disagree with and debate each other to be a lot more toxic than vague impoliteness. Your three posts in this thread have been “I agree!”, “Thanks!”, and a complaint about me- and I know you don’t like criticism, but those posts are doing nothing at all for the community except taking up space.

Cephalobeard
Cephalobeard
5 years ago
Reply to  abusepuppy

Justify it however you want. You’re a dick to people here. I’m happy to point it out for as long as you’re happy to do it.

My posts agreeing with people are irrelevant for how you’re acting.

Take ownership of your behavior. You’ve even had someone other than myself point it out to you.

It’s plenty clear people don’t point it out to you often, but you’re a dick. I don’t care if you’re a dick. I’m just going to point it out when you are.

Cephalobeard
Cephalobeard
5 years ago
Reply to  abusepuppy

I’ll even add:

Literally no one is telling you you’re wrong for disagreeing with people. Literally.

However, MOCKING people when they comment is what you’re being called out for. You can be critical or have discussion without being the fedora of an unmoderated message board.

Heldericht
Heldericht
5 years ago
Reply to  abusepuppy

Strawman argument trying to make AP seem like the bad guy and not acknowledging his point.

Marines should be the least worried about Supremacy suit with mass Grav that solves all their problems and is patently broken.

Jural
Jural
5 years ago
Reply to  abusepuppy

Personal opinion-

This particular AP post was sarcastic, but humorous. Informative, not cruel.

Didn’t bother me at all- don’t see it as cancerous

zyekian
5 years ago
Reply to  abusepuppy

It’s not just about SM though. The ITC nerfs to various powers limit tools to combat something like a Tau Narr across various armies and play styles.

You’re telling me a Tau Nar is all fair and good but that Corsairs had to have their teleport psychic power nerfed? What?

You’re telling me a Tau Nar is all fair and good but Corsairs couldn’t use their overwatch move? Because it limits interaction or something on the table?

Do you know what else limits interaction on the table? People’s armies being devastated at the top of turn one by a Tau Nar.

abusepuppy
5 years ago
Reply to  zyekian

I wrote an entire article on why I don’t think the Tau’nar is fair. I’m not saying it’s fair. But complaining about how hard it is for Space Marines, of all armies, to handle it is absolutely ludicrous.

C-Stock
C-Stock
5 years ago

I don’t even play SM.

Why can’t my Corsair psyker use their teleportation power as written so that I can get my Dark Eldar into rapid assault range of a Taunar? Why is that power too powerful but a Taunar (if passed) is perfectly acceptable?

Alexander
Alexander
5 years ago
Reply to  C-Stock

Well even if the unar is let in to the ITC it still has to follow the ITC guidelines that being said the pulse ordinance multi driver

The dreaded SD Massive blast is illigal so it has to take it’s much less powerful counterparts. So don’t worry it can’t drop a SD 7 inch template on your whole army

zyekian
5 years ago

Hopefully the titans thing fails. Because while the top players may be able to sort of handle them, it will not be fun for 90% of the players out there.

tag8833
tag8833
5 years ago
Reply to  zyekian

The powers that be in the ITC have adopted GW’s position that fun is overrated, and that it is more important to encourage a Pay-To-Win philosophy than fun games.

It’s why Pink Horror’s split wasn’t considered for fixing, but opening up army comp restrictions to cater to a less interactive (fun) game showed up in various forms.

They didn’t address crowd favorites like ending battle brothers, but they put in a proposal to allow multiple fortifications that weren’t being called for except from GW, and a very, very, very few players.

If your goal is a diverse, restrictive, decently balanced, highly interactive, and fun game it might be time to looks outside the ITC, because they are going to pushing for a less restrictive army comp until they get it, and their priorities have at this point appear to have shifted.

GRUNT
GRUNT
5 years ago

Will previous voted on questions be allowed if the GW FAQ allows it? Stomp out of combat and what not? If “we are going with the GW FAQ” shouldn’t we take all of it?

Adam S.
5 years ago

When is the last day for voting?

Mike
Mike
5 years ago

Count me in as another shocked player when I found out split wasn’t even asked about. And yes we have playtested it here, including after the 6″ zone/no malefic FAQ, and found it to be unacceptably nutso broken in both power and usableness during timed play. I would ask that you seriously consider adding in split as a late question, because that is a huge miss.

Also the taunar would literally make me stay home rather than try to buy a war hound just to compete with it. And I echo the earlier sentiments that it’s mere presence completely removes any justification for keeping previous nerfs to other armies, powers etc.

I can settle for the other votes going any which way, but Titans being considered “standard legal” at tournies is too far for me. If the majority really wants that, then I guess I’m dropping out to become a garage-only player, because that’s a pure non-starter for me.

Adam S.
5 years ago
Reply to  Mike

In our games, the pink horrors split haven’t had much of an impact. For reference, we play in a highly competitive area.

Granted there is an impact to warp charges but if you are already generating a lot of warp charges, 1 or 2 more aren’t going to matter.

ryan
ryan
5 years ago

Reecius-

sorry to directly address you, i see you are rolling with the FAQ unless it conflicts with the ITC FAQ, so where does the VSG stand in regards to the ITC. The FAQ clearly states it affects the VGS, the ITC FAQ says it dosnt and its not up for vote, does this mean there is no change to its status and the VSG will be immune to grav at the LVO?

abusepuppy
5 years ago
Reply to  ryan

The GW FAQ actually says that Void Shields on buildings are not affected by Grav (but other ones are.) There’s a bit of ambiguity, but I think most people are reading that as saying that Projected Void Shields, which come from a building, are not affected by Grav.

C-Stock
C-Stock
5 years ago

I honestly can’t believe that making titans standard tournament legal is even an item that’s getting voted on. This is why many/most of us play ITC is to have a better game that’s not nonsense Apoc….

abusepuppy
5 years ago
Reply to  C-Stock

Reece puts issues up for vote when a lot of people ask about them, generally speaking. I don’t think that he believes that they should be allowed- see all of his past statements on the subject, for example- but that doesn’t mean he won’t allow a vote or debate on the subject.

C-Stock
C-Stock
5 years ago
Reply to  abusepuppy

A whole lot of people have called for weakening battle brothers to nerf death stars, cap ICs in a unit at one, etc.

Why are these things not being voted on?

abusepuppy
5 years ago
Reply to  C-Stock

Honestly? I don’t know. There have been a number of posts about it in the response threads here, but “a lot of people” in that respect might mean five or ten or twenty, tops. By contrast, I know that there are some issues that Reece receives _hundreds_ of emails about.

So maybe he hasn’t gotten that much mail about the battle bro/IC cap thing? I can’t really say. Or maybe he has and he feels that the lackluster performance of deathstars in ITC means that a change isn’t really warranted. There are a number of possible explanations that can only really be speculated upon.

Troy Graber
Troy Graber
5 years ago
Reply to  abusepuppy

That has always been his line. “squeaky wheel theory”. I don’t see much evidence to support it. We’ve got 2 votes on Corsair jetbikes getting to move 2D6 after firing overwatch.

I’ve never heard anyone ask for that, have you? As a TO, I get questions all the time, and nobody has ever asked for corsairs to be able to move after firing overwatch. Compare that to the common refrains. Fixing Shadows in the Warp for instance. Ending Free points. Caps on Warp dice. Those are the sort of things that come up in small talk at every ITC event I’ve ever been to. They are out there, but don’t warrant a vote, because we’ve got to give corsairs a chance to move after overwatch, and when it fails decisively, we’ve got to give them a 2nd chance.

abusepuppy
5 years ago
Reply to  Troy Graber

Some issues are genuinely ambiguous in terms of how they are intended to function; while I’m not sure that Reckless Abandon was necessarily the best example of that, there have been plenty of others- and in most of those cases, the ITC will put them to a vote if there is significant division over how to handle it.

Something like Shadow in the Warp or getting rid of “free points,” on the other hand, is not ambiguous at all. Those are simply things that people want to change in order to weaken or strengthen specific armies.

(incidentally, unless I’m remembering wrong the reason Reckless Abandon was voted on twice was because the first vote specified that _Jetbikes_ were disallowed from making the move after overwatch, and a lot of people argued that since the ruling only applied to Jetbikes other units could still do so. Thus, a second vote was put up to apply to _all_ Corsair units, which got the same result. Reece doesn’t, and never has, played Corsairs and I don’t think ANY of the Frontline staff does, so your insinuation that the whole thing was somehow some kind of underhanded plot to benefit them is pretty absurd.)

Troy Graber
Troy Graber
5 years ago
Reply to  abusepuppy

If that is the philosophy then the Tyranid Tyrannocyte should have gotten a vote. It was genuinely ambiguous how it fires its weapons.

Instead it was given the most limited interpretation (nerfed) in the FAQ with no vote ever taken.

How about taking a 2nd fortification? How often have you heard someone asking for that? For me it has been twice. Once in 2015, and once in 2016. It is an incredibly low demand item that got bumped up ahead of all of the very high demand votes.

Cephalobeard
Cephalobeard
5 years ago
Reply to  abusepuppy

Fortifications are due to Traitor Legions specifically allowing IW to take additional Fortifications. Currently ITC would not have allowed them to do so.

This is my guess as to why you’re seeing that.

Adam
5 years ago
Reply to  abusepuppy

To clarify, Troy, there was a vote for the Tyranid drop pod

C-Stock
C-Stock
5 years ago
Reply to  abusepuppy

Abusepuppy, nobody or virtually nobody clamored for votes on the reckless abandon move. It was just fine RAW. The thing is Reece didn’t like it and he explained why on the podcast. He said it inhibited interaction between armies, therefore it needed to be nerfed from RAW which clearly states ANY shooting triggers it. And not that it’s gospel truth but FW was openly stating to many people that it works in overwatch.

Reece just didn’t like the rule and well, since Corsair players make up less than 1% of 40k players especially at the time their new book dropped, everyone happily voted to nerf “eldar jetbikes”.

Honestly I agree with Reece that the RA move in overwatch is kinda dumb. But if we’re voting to put outright ridiculous crap in the game like a Taunar or a second Stormsurge then there’s zero reason that Corsairs can’t have a relatively minor power that’s kinda dumb.

Brett (TK)
5 years ago

Wait… So GW FAQ is rolled up into the ITC FAQ? Can someone fact check this please. 😉

Had it come up last event. GW FAQ changed how shriek worked… does it or does it not hit FMC?

1PlusArmour
5 years ago
Reply to  Brett (TK)

With GW FAQ it can never hit a swooping FMC.

Brett (TK)
5 years ago
Reply to  1PlusArmour

I literally here about a 50/50 split against FMC getting hit or not hit.

abusepuppy
5 years ago
Reply to  Brett (TK)

It is a shooting attack that does not roll to hit. As such, it cannot be resolved against a FMC as per the new wording for Hard to Hit.

zyekian
5 years ago

To the people calling for significant changes such as one IC per unit and changes to BB, I suspect Reece and crew strongly suspect that a new edition will drop a few months after the LVO and therefore aren’t looking at major changes right now. Those are good ideas though IMO.

PrimoFederalist
PrimoFederalist
5 years ago

I would really love to see a nerf to Battle Brothers next poll (i.e. eliminate it). This solves so many issues, IMO. Dark Eldar would probably take the biggest hit, however, it’s not as if there were ever strong fluff justifications for BB.

I also think only one IC per unit and/or only ICs of the same unit type may join a unit would help (so only ICs on bikes can join bikes, only jump infantry ICs can join jump infantry, on infantry can join infantry, etc), but getting rid of BB would be as close to a single silver bullet as we’ll get.

Petey Pab
5 years ago

Just my two cents here. Part of the internet will cry foul if the ITC amends rules GW puts out, and the other part is hollering about the ITC NOT ammending rules GW puts out.

To that minority of players who trust the ITC, and constantly thank Reece and Frankie for their work. You folks are the real MVPs.

Dr.Ice
Dr.Ice
5 years ago

Is there any consideration if the Warlord Titan and Tau I’m-way-too-cheap-for-what-I-do suit get added that we might finally see the Harridan get on the approved lists?

abusepuppy
5 years ago
Reply to  Dr.Ice

Seriously. If the Tau’nar is in but the Harridan is out, I will be utterly baffled. The Harridan isn’t even vaguely good, and it never has been. It is arguably the worst Gargantuan Creature in the game.

Jural
Jural
5 years ago
Reply to  abusepuppy

I think the Hierodules are now clearly worse with the changes to toe in cover.

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