List Review: Ad Hoc Ad Mech

Once again it’s time for List Review, and this week we’ve got a pure Adeptus Mechanicus 40K list on the bench to see what we can do with it.

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Hi,

I am seeking help on my ad mech list I am currently building. This is a work in progress army so your response will guide my future purchases. What I want to do is a Adeptus mechanicus force without going to the default war congregation as I want something more unique and tailored even at the price of power and paying for my own upgrades. We generally play casual games with good player not hell-bent on optimization so it’s not a tournament force (at that point I wight just go for the war congregation as it pretty much writes itself…). I have a small force of Salamader at my disposal (mostly scouts & marines)but I would rather keep it pure ad mech.

Here is the list so far :

Primary

Cult mech battle congregation

Dominus 135pts

-Raiments of technomartyr

3 breachers 150pts

3 destroyers 165pts

Kastelan maniple 325pts

2 twin-linked h. phosphor blaster

2 carapace incendiary combustors

mask of alpha dominus

Kastelan maniple 320pts

2 twin-linked h. phosphor blaster

2 h. phosphor blaster

Skitarii maniple

8 Vangards 167pts

2 plasma calivers

omnispex

8 vangards 122pts

2 arc rifles

omnispex

5 inflitrators 185pts

1 sydonian dragoons 45

1 sydonian dragoons 45

2 dunecrawlers 190

2 eradication beamers

2 heavy stubbers

1849

The dominus goes in one of kastelan combined with the raiments of tech to create a Anti-air unit on the cheap that will be useful against a no flyer army. The bold units are my next buy. I was also thinking adding a culexus for anit-psy

So, let’s get a couple of issues out ofthe way. First of all, a Dominus is not allowed to join a unit of Kastellan Robots, as they are monstrous creatures and Independent Characters may not join those (even if there are other, non-MC models in the unit.) If we want to have him saddle up with some Kastellans, we need to take the Cohort Cybernetica formation (which in all honesty is not bad and we’ll have to keep in mind.)

The second problem I see looking at this list is less explicit, and it’s likely the reason for the email: in short, this is a battleforce army. What is a “battleforce army?” The name comes out of the old starter armies that GW used to sell for each faction (Tau Battleforce, Space Marines, Battleforce, etc.) Because they are an easy starting point for new players and because of the way GW markets its products, new players would often end up with a random mish-mash of different units that didn’t work well together and left gaps in their ability to do many sorts of things. This style of army-building is especially evident if you look back to the “example” armies present in many of the old (4E and earlier) codices, which are just absolutely atrocious from any kind of play perspective.

So, even though this is explicitly a non-competitive army the writer is requesting, I think we have our work cut out for us. It certainly incorporates some useful elements into it, and many of the units aren’t bad per se, but it suffers from a lack of focus in its overall game plan. Sticking to pure Mechanicum will make things a little trickier, but it’s definitely doable- both Skitarii and Cult Mechanicus have some very good units in them that we can take advantage of.

games_workshop_skitarii_vs_orks___fin_by_jihunlee-d8pizc1

What Do You Can Do, You?

So the first step in our journey is picking the chaff from the wheat- what are our respective factions good at? What bases do they cover? What problems do we have to worry about?  Because Mechanicum is such a strange little beast, it’s important to pause and take stock of what we have available before we decide what we’re going to commit ourselves to.

Skitarii are actually very well-off in this regard. Their core detachment gives a very handy set of bonuses with Scout and Crusader (plus the potential for Preferred Enemy on our warlord, etc) and we have access to lots of other solid choices as well. Vanguard are powerful short-range brawlers and Rangers have excellent mid-range utility weapons- we don’t have to be sad about using either or both of them. Their special weapons give us excellent anti-infantry and anti-tank, albeit at a not-inconsiderable cost and at relatively short ranges. Ruststalkers and Infiltrators are fairly mediocre all things considered, though if we had to choose Infiltrators are pretty clearly the superior option. Dragoons give us potential for a pretty decent melee kick against vehicles, and Balistarii give us some basic anti-air combined with decent utility shooting. Lastly, the Onager lets us bring either a powerful “artillery” shot or an array of anti-air guns, depending on our needs.

Cult Mechanicus, however, are a bit more limited in their options. The Dominus is an excellent HQ, with good stats, great gear, and lots of utility. However, both troop units are a bit lackluster if we don’t have access to transports due to their short range and relative fragility. With no Scout, no Deep Strike, and no ability to Run, we are very hard-pressed to get these guys where they need to be a lot of the time- Destroyers can do alright thanks to 30″ range, but on the other hand their 4+ armor is a lot less protective. Both types of Electro-Priests are absolute garbage of the worst sort, with not even token functionality. Kastellans are quite good, though they tend to be a bit ponderous overall and are best suited to a hybrid role where they claim midfield and act as a counterassault unit.

So, putting all of that together, we have a couple options. We could try to run an aggressive force with short-range firepower and melee units to push into the enemy’s face. Turn 1 would often be a bit weak for us in this army, but in theory we make up for it after that. Alternately, we could take the opposite path and run a much more defensive force that wants to stand back and shoot at things, using its surprising melee capacity to hammer enemies that try to get inside the reach of its guns. I think there’s merit to both plans, but I like the sound of the second one more overall, so we’re going to go with that- however, the first has a certain degree of viability, and for those at home looking to try something wacky (and who have plenty of room in their budget), a combination of lots of Dragoons for anti-vehicle duty, the Breacher formation for Deep Striking, Kastellans for cutting down problem units, and some Infiltrators and Vanguard for getting some sneaky tricks in would be the general plan.

However, that’s not the road we’re going down, so let’s see what we can do for the original list.

24066895

Harder, Faster, Better, Stronger

1850pts

KASTELLAN ROBOT MANIPLE

1 Tech-Priest Dominus (Autocaudecus of Arkhan Land) (135)

4 Kastellan Robots (Heavy Phosphor, TL Heavy Phosphor) (540)

2 Cybernetica Datasmiths (Rainment of the Techmartyr) (130)

SKITARII MANIPLE

10 Skitarii Rangers (3 Arc Rifles, Omnispex, Arkhan’s Divinator) (185)

10 Skitarii Rangers (3 Arc Rifles, Omnispex) (180)

2 Ironstrider Ballistarii (110)

2 Ironstrider Ballistarii (110)

1 Onager Dunecrawler (Neutron Laser/Cognis Stubber) (115)

1 Onager Dunecrawler (Neutron Laser/Cognis Stubber) (115)

2 Onager Dunecrawler (Neutron Laser/Cognis Stubber) (230)

So, our new version does a lot of what the original does, but with a few changes and a few improvements. The Kastellan Robot Maniple essentially combines the two Kastellan units (and the Dominus that wanted to join them but couldn’t) together into one big, stompy midfield unit. We swap for the Phosphor guns in both cases because they have superior range and damage output to the flamers and because we already put out a very large number of AP2 attacks with the combined unit (fifteen, or twenty-three if we have the right Protocol up- and more than half of those swing ahead of Power Fists.) Their main job is to plod forward, soaking up enemy fire, and keep any of the enemy’s melee units off our case; if they happen to get into some assaults themselves, all the better, but 24-36 S6 AP3 shots per turn (with the ability to split fire if needed) we are more than capable of holding our own in shooting. Also, don’t underestimate the power of reflecting back enemy shots on 6s- it can be a very nasty surprise. The Autocaudecus gives us IWND on the whole unit, which is great with so many multiwound models, and the Rainment means we can Snap Shot with pretty brutal efficiency- be it against flyers, Invisible guys, or on overwatch- we can expect in the neighborhood of ten hits or more in these situations.

We have minimized the Cult Mechanicus detachment because Canticles of the Omnissiah really wants you to be fielding a LOT of units for it, and without War Convocation we really just can’t do that- none of our usable units comes in at less than 155pts, which is just too much to expect to take the 8+ of them we really want. Doctrina Imperitives, on the other hand, don’t scale based on our units and are much more controllable as a result- and they’re arguably better in an offensive sense anyways, so we’re fine with that. Still, don’t forget those Canticles- Stealth for a turn or rerolling 1s or even free autohits in combat can all be critical if used at the right time.

The SKitarii side of the army is a bit different than the usual version. Also, it’s kinda pretty expensive- while I would like to avoid this, there is no realistic way to keep a pure Mechanicum force while on a budget, unless you are doing a lot of converting or 3rd-party work. So I’m not exactly happy with that part of it, but there’s no way around that issue. In any case, we are fielding two large units of Rangers because of the superior range of their guns; Precision Shots is great for picking off heavy weapons, sergeants with Power Fists, etc, and the Arc Rifle is never a bad gun (and can make short work of vehicles when needed.) The Divinator is just a cute little piece of kit that will occasionally help you get you the Skyfire or +1 cover or whatever else you need.

Ironstriders are in there as more utility shooting; they can ping on flyers, try and snipe just like Rangers, or grind HP off of vehicles as needed. Their range is their main defense, since they are otherwise relatively fragile, but for the price it’s not bad at all. The Dunecrawlers, on the other hand, are our real stars- the S10 AP1 blasts from their Neutron Lasers will scrap most vehicles post haste and the bonus Stubber is a helpful addition when firing at other targets. Not that our setup allows us to run two in front with the 5++ and then two more hiding behind them for 5+ cover of their own, even when there is no terrain on the field to speak of- we can also use similar shenanigans with our Kastellans and Ballistarii.

All in all, I feel like this is a fairly fluffy Mechanicum list, though a bit shorter on bodies than I might like- perhaps replacing a Dunecrawler with another unit of Rangers or Vanguard might be prudent. It’s not quick-moving, but it tends to advance as a relentless block of bodies that are hard to put down and most all of its units have at least basic utility in both shooting and melee. Lack of Objective Secured is potentially an issue, but with so much punchy from the Kastellans not a lot of things will want to get that close to it. With the limited number of units choosing shooting targets (and splitting fire with the Cohort) are very important to its success.

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About abusepuppy

AbusePuppy is the one who has been ruining 40K for everyone this whole time. He is also searching for the six-fingered man and is one of the three people who know the secret recipe for coke (not the soda, the illegal drug.)

24 Responses to “List Review: Ad Hoc Ad Mech”

  1. Kevin Lantz December 1, 2015 6:33 am #

    So now we get to the next question of…

    Co-ordinated firestorm….

    if I join buffmander to the broadsides in there and they all fire together, do they get the benefit?

    • Norren December 1, 2015 9:55 pm #

      Dude, this kind of accident is the exact reason why you’re not allowed to use target-locks in a coordinated firepower attack. ~_^

  2. Kevin Lantz December 1, 2015 6:34 am #

    wow was on the wrong screen lol

    • blight December 1, 2015 7:26 am #

      I have to say after actually using all the units from both skittari and cult that infiltrators, rust stalkers, and electro priests are much better than you give them credit for.
      Electro priests of the melee variety when used properly can take out knights in one turn and shrug off a ton more firepower than you would think. Anecdotal but I had a unit of them survive the full shooting of 2 dark eldar flyers and several squads of raiders. Somewhere around 50 wounds. Lost 3. You have to remember canticles. (Side note I have never tried the shooty versions. Spent all my money making a unit for melee)
      The infiltrators and rust stalkers have been my secret weapon for some time now. They are dreaded by the people I play with. Also surprisingly resilient with FNP and 2 wounds (plus the 6++ most forget about). Rust stalkers can take out anything in the game and infiltrators make infantry dissappear under a mountain of wounds plus cripple their enemies. Both are also extremely fast to the point that it’s thrown most if my opponents off guard. In the convocation they aren’t a tax.
      Now under a torrent of S6 shooting I’m not going to say they’ll seem all too survivable but a lot of armies other than eldar cannot put out mass amounts of that. Even tau mostly fire s5 ap5.

      They need to be used carefully but if used right they win games. They are not pyrovores.
      (Replying to this because I can’t seem to leave a regular comment)

      • AbusePuppy December 1, 2015 7:58 am #

        >Electro priests of the melee variety when used properly can take out knights in one turn

        They should never be within charge range of a Knight, so it really doesn’t matter how good their melee weapons are against one. I mean, you walk up close and you take some casualties and you’re almost there and then oh nooooooooooooo space marine Scouts are punching you in your stupid electrical face and you’re dead.

        >Anecdotal but

        You can stop right there. “This one time I rolled nothing but 5s and 6s and the unit was unkillable” should never be taken as evidence of how good they are. Most of the time, you get shot with Boltguns and you die, end of story. Also let’s not forget: they cost significantly more than a Space Marine does.

        >The infiltrators and rust stalkers have been my secret weapon for some time now.

        Infiltrators, with their Neurostatic Aura, can be surprisingly functional in combat; Ruststalkers hit fairly hard thanks to Fleshbane, but in both cases you are predicating their functionality on the idea that they’re going to get into combat with things- and with T3/4+, that is not terribly likely. Lots of armies have oodles of S6 weapons to pound you with, and against them both units just fold up and die. In a War Convocation they can occasionally be surprisingly useful because you’re dropping a lot of targets onto the table (and having 2+ cover for a turn helps a lot as well), but taken on their own they are pretty weak.

        I’ll grant you that Infiltrators/Ruststalkers are better than Pyrovores and Electro-Priests, but those aren’t high bars to measure to. At the end of the day, they’re still T3/4+ models that cost as much as a Terminator- and yeah, they’re essentially as fast as a Jump Pack unit, but that’s only a surprise to people who see them and think “oh okay infantry speed”- if you assume they’re essentially moving 12″, they’re exactly what you expect.

        • blight December 1, 2015 10:42 am #

          There are ways to deliver electro priests to their targets and a space marine scout squad will die fighting them any day. They are ap4 after all with zealot for re rolls. I’ve used them several times and always gotten their points worth.
          Yes they need a transport but the imperium provides.

          As for the the mass s6 I was worried about that too but I rarely see it in numbers that scare me unless I fight eldar. Space marines are too focused on grav these days, tau love their ignores cover missiles(still scary but survivable), tyranids only pump it out on their HQS these days, necrons are mostly s4 and 5, and you don’t even have to worry about daemons. The field is far more friendly to them then you would think. This is quite possibly different where you are but I do remember Reece talking about how he really likes the dunestrider units.

          • AbusePuppy December 1, 2015 8:13 pm
            #

            >and a space marine scout squad will die fighting them any day.

            8 Space Marine Scouts charge 5 Fulgurite Electro-Priests. We’ll be generous and say they don’t shoot before the assault because they don’t wanna put themselves out of charge range. 24 attacks, 12 hits, 8 wounds, ~4 failed saves. The one remaining Priest swings back, killing about half a Scout. Next turn, he dies before he gets to swing.

            That sounds like a pretty bad time for the Priests.

            >Yes they need a transport but the imperium provides.

            They have no Assault Transports they can realistically steal (no one is gonna buy them a Land Raider) and even one turn standing around on foot is too long to expect them to survive.

            >As for the the mass s6 I was worried about that too but I rarely see it in numbers that scare me unless I fight eldar.

            Or Tau. Or Space Marines (Thunderfire Cannon.) Or Tyranids. Or Dark Angels. Or Grey Knights. There are actually a lot of enemies that bring significant amounts of S6+ to the party. Tyranids “only” spamming it from their HQs is kinda a meaningless assertion when HQs are often 80% of their army- and Necrons aren’t spamming Gauss shots, they’re bringing Night Scythes, Warscythes, and Wraiths to the party, all of which ID you.

            I know Reece likes the Dunestriders, but that’s not the same thing as saying they’re good or functional. And we haven’t even begun to discuss how they fare in a _fight_; we’re still just talking about _getting_ them to a fight.

  3. blight December 1, 2015 10:42 pm #

    Well I suppose we just disagree then. As I said I’ve personally done quite well with them. Actually surprised you’ve been responding so strongly this whole time.
    I do ask if you’ve gotten any games in with them or if it’s all math hammer?
    I’ve used a storm raven to get them into the fight and provide anti air. Usually aim for a weaker squad to get the 3++ then aim for angrier things. Take at least 10.

    • blight December 1, 2015 10:53 pm #

      Something else I’m wondering about now that I’ve read over your response again. Who uses 8 man squads of melee scouts? I have never seen them in a list. Bolter or snipers only. Also you were assuming that you got the charge on the priests which wasn’t likely in the scenario. You left out what happens if the priests charge. Plenty of s4 hammer of wrath plus electromancy if you want.

      Also should mention they are the cheapest way to pad out the canticles.
      Again I am not saying that priests are some super unit that will sweep tournaments but they have quite a few uses and if not for the extremely good troops ad mech have you’d probably see a lot more of them.

      • Cronhour December 2, 2015 2:03 pm #

        I use melee scouts in every list almost. Even with ws3 (blood Angels) they make their points back every game, usually multiples

        • blight December 2, 2015 4:01 pm #

          Do you use them in land speeders? I have never seen them used before and would like to hear how you use them and how they work out for you. I only ever see min objective holders and small sniper teams.
          What kind of units do you send them after?

      • AbusePuppy December 2, 2015 5:33 pm #

        Lots of people use Scouts, and even melee Scouts. But if we assume the more common Bolter Scouts, it’s not even a fight- the Scouts start 24″ away thanks to Infiltrate and just ping the Priests to death. _Maybe_ the Priests get to make one crappy shooting attack with a wounded squad, but certainly they never get into combat.

        I assumed eight Scouts because that makes the costs of the two units as close as possible (88 for Scouts, 90 for Priests.)

    • AbusePuppy December 2, 2015 5:31 pm #

      We have several players who play AdMech in the area, so I have more than a bit of experience with them both in and out of the War Convocation. I’ve never used them myself (as I don’t play the army), but…

      Ten Priests and a Stormraven is very nearly four hundred points, and even assuming you can pounce on something weak and kill it you’re still just T3/3+ save, which is a Sister of Battle.

  4. Axis of Entropy December 2, 2015 4:34 am #

    I think your list at the bottom intended to be a Cohort Cybernetica formation but doesn’t explicitly say so.

    Why Ironstrider Ballistari instead of Dragoons?

    • AbusePuppy December 2, 2015 6:01 am #

      Yeah, I just typed that out wrong, even though I refer to it as a Cohort elsewhere. -_-

      I went with the Ballistarii over Dragoons because Dragoons are mostly useful as a quick offensive tool- which runs counter to the strategy of that list. The Ballistarii can hang back and snipe from the rear, protected by the Cohort, whereas Dragoons would have to charge forward into exposed positions in order to do their job. It’s the same reason I went with Rangers over Vanguard, essentially.

  5. Mmimzie December 2, 2015 8:29 pm #

    I really think you’ll want power fist on that robots. I know it sounds silly, but if your going against any army that wants to melee you. Your gonna get rolled. A night charges and you’ll be hard pressed to take it out with just haywire; TWC come knocking with out insta death you wont be doing much; Demons with a blood thirster will be a pain; a stormsurge melees you what a bad day your gonna have (though even with fist this might suck bad); and even wraiths will be bothersome. So With fist you do much better. Knight i face usually fall before getting any stomp in, and it usually comes down to power fist attacks. Sure the fist don’t do damage at range, but with such a big unit you can take up a lot of the center of the map and threaten a large area with lethal charges.

    I currently run mono cult:
    Cohort:
    2x phos/Fist bots
    2x Phos/Phos Bots
    2x Data smith (Rainment of the Techmartyr)
    Techpriest (Autocaudecus of Arkhan Land)

    Elimination Maniple:
    Robots: 1x Phos/fist; 1x Phos/Phos, Vanilla Datasmith

    3x Grav Destroyers
    3x Grav Destroyers

    Holy Reuqition:
    Tech Priest
    3x Breachers Arc
    3x Breachers Arc

    Has point to swap Fist for Phos, but again i kinda like the fist, but i’d say one maniple can do with out fist; even more so if you deploy second. Grav Beg to stay in cover or completely hidden to roll out and take 1 turn of pot shots. The extra maniple almost garentees T2 canticles for at least a few turns This way you reroll 1 &2’s as well as having access to “litany of the electromaner for anti horde work.”

    Also Shrouded the turn your breachers come down can be nice. The bounce bots also really take advantage of bouncing armor. With nothing else to shoot at your IWND and Bounce Armor saves will make you good point. Even more so against eldar who will threaten your grav with high mobility.

    For a while I was running a list almost just like what you posted, but the Kastelans are SOOOOO tanky any smart enemy will ignore them completely, and clear the other half of your army off the board or at least take out all of your onagers (if tau or Eldar), and as said before Assault armys will wreck you bots with out canticles & fist. This list plugs those wholes by arming the bots with some fist, and reducing targets for your enemy. The only changes i think of are torsion cannons and swaping the fist on the small robot maniple.

    • Kartr_Kana December 3, 2015 8:50 am #

      Not sure I see the point of power fists on the Robots when you’re taking them as a shooty unit. They’re natively S6 Ap2 with 2 attacks. While only I2 that means they swing before Thunder Hammers and Power Fists ignoring armour. Power Fists get you 1 extra attack and +4 strength but sacrifice shooting, which defeats the whole point of using them as a shooty unit.

      • AbusePuppy December 3, 2015 9:13 am #

        Against stuff like Thunderwolves, Wraiths, and Knights he has something of a point- the difference between S6 and S10 is pretty big. On the other hand, Smash is only -1A (and you’ve got Haywire and other stuff), so unless you’re facing that sort of thing constantly, I think doubling your shooting output for a token cost is the superior choice overall.

        But yeah, without the second Phosphor, they are a drastically less threatening unit- it’s possible to ignore 6-9 S6 shots per turn, but not so much when it’s 24+.

        • Mmimzie December 3, 2015 2:11 pm #

          Its not just 6-9 shots its 19 shots. You only give up 6 twinlinked shot. Plus they can still double tap with thier carapace weapon if you really want to threaten folks.

          The power fist vs the smash attack is actually 2 attacks difference. You get +1 attack for two fist. Also with protocols you can double your base doing a wopping 5 str 10 ap 2 attacks. 6 on the charge, which is possible because phos guns basicly give you fleet.

          Thats the difference brtween glancing knights on 3+ with a small chance to do D3 wounds. Thats the difference of rolling 2+ to would stormsurges, dreadknights, wraith knights, blood thirsters, and flyrants. Thats the difference between insta death on TWC, juggernaughts (I think), and wraiths. It’s the difference between destroying two or 3 razor back with a multi charge.

          When its 800 points of your army you can let it be threatened with the chance of getting locked in combat all say not making your points bacm. Also you want this unit in the middle of the board threatening to shoot AND/OR charge anything trying to take an objective.

          • Mmimzie December 3, 2015 2:14 pm
            #

            Basicly its the same arguement as with the stormsurge. Your storm surge isnt a melee unit, but it definitly also isnt a shooting unit. Its a unit that needs to be active in both the shooting and melee phases of the game. Claiming the board with the ract that your super hard to kill, but also putting out eniugh shooting and deadly enough in melee that you can’t be ignores.

          • blight December 3, 2015 10:38 pm
            #

            Yeah whenever I use them I only take as many shooty ones as I have characters that I’m fine not shooting with. That way I can fire at other targets and still be very angry in melee. The extra attack and s10 can make all the difference in the world against a wide range of opponents. Always have at least one robot with fists. Also keeping one flamer is nice too for infantry and assault protection.

            Now I will also say that taking any of the units in ad mech without considering their canticles is a big mistake and is one of the reasons why some units seem too expensive. Taken as a whole and especially considering their access to battle brothers boosts them considerably.
            2++ with FNP is nothing to sneeze at even on a T3 model. (Using sanctuary with probably grey knights)
            This has happened and is not that unlikely if you play it right.

          • AbusePuppy December 4, 2015 1:05 am
            #

            It’s only 19 shots when standing still, though, and only when you aren’t using FNP- both of which are things you’ll want to do a lot. Taking the extra Phosphor essentially doubles your output most of the time.

            And yes, I realize they get another +1A from the second Fist. I was comparing Smash vs Not Smash for the unit as I had them equipped, not against the Fist version. Like I said, if you see a ton of Thunderwolves, and Knights the Fist option is going to look a lot better- but frankly, I find Knights to be pretty janky these days because of the penalty on secondary points, so they just aren’t much of a problem. The fact that the list also has six Rapid Fire haywire weapons and four S10 AP1 shots makes me feel like they’re a lot less needed, too.

            Most things in the game die to the mass of AP2 attacks the unit puts out, Fists or not. It’s only higher-end stuff that the Fist really helps against, and I think the additional shooting more than makes up for that- you should be able to kill off a bunch of those Thunderwolves or ping some HP off the Razorbacks before charging with the extra guns, as twelve twin-linked shots will usually do that. But if I’m playing the midfield game, I want to be able to take advantage of my position as much as possible, and that means extending my threat range with guns because guns are typically better than punches, when it comes down to it. I can still beat the crap out of basic squads (and even most other MCs) if it comes down to it.

          • Mmimzie December 4, 2015 6:09 am
            #

            No the unit I’ve been talking about has 18 attacks base. As I’ve said its 2 x fist/phos, and 2xdouble phos. So thats 2 guys with 6 shots and 2 with 3. Or 3 x 6 which is 18. (I fat fingered last 19 laat time. )

            Thats giving up 6 shots to not have to: get tied down by daemon hounds, insta kill wraiths, deal with TWC, not get stomp ed by nights or wraith knights, have a fighting chance again stormsurges, threaten blood thirster, and more.

            Like it is important against almost army you face. Only demi company with no knight ane flyrants that dont want to land will see some reduced useablity. Heck a riptide with an invuln could mail your fohirt to the ground for a few.turns.

            The bots are very vulnerable to almost any CC unit and they meed the fist to make this not the case if more than a third of your army will be these guys.

            I’ve been playing mono cult/ admech with bots since the book hit stores. From my experience combat is thier qeakness, and fist qlmost completely fix this.

  6. Mr_felix December 5, 2015 6:38 am #

    Thank you for you tips for my list! This is greatly appreciated and it makes me think of new ways to run my ad mech. The much controversial infiltrator has been a pretty good unit so far for me also, but to be fair I am kinda rooting for them so I might try to bench them and see if 185 in something else can do more.
    I am still not decided on the Rangers as they always sucked in my games vs vanguards that constently do great. I understand the logic of your decision and will try them out in my next game.

    Thanks again! And thanks for the other contributors to this conversation too!

    The original list owner

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