Writing a List for 7th ed 40K and the BAO 2014

confused

Feeling confused as to how to write your list for the BAO, or 7th ed in general? Don’t worry, you’re not alone! This article should clear it up.

Before we jump too far into this article, if you want to go to the BAO get your tickets soon! We’re already almost 1/2 full for the main event and tickets have only been up for sale for a day and a half as of this writing!

So first things first: forget everything you knew about writing an army list. It’s all changed now. You can literally do anything you want to put your models on the table in 7th ed. You always could of course, but now the rules tell us to go crazy with it officially.

Let’s go over the basics of list building in 7th ed. 

You have unlimited ways to write a list. You can go unbound and take anything from any source regardless of Faction if you want to. You can use a single CAD with no allies and draw from only a Codex if you want to play as we did in 5th ed, for example. You can have unlimited CADs, allies, etc. and anything in between.

As for using the Combined Arms Detachment specifically, the following applies:

  1. You are no longer restricted by your codex. You have not been for some time, actually, between Formations, Data Slates, Supplements, Forge World, Allies, etc. Now though, any semblance of formal restrictions are essentially gone. What you have now is Factions, Army List Entries and Battlefield Roles.
    1. Your Faction defines which Army List Selections (units) you can choose for your detachment.
    2. Army List Entries are the units that comprise your detachments. They can be found in a wide range of rules sources.
    3. Battlefield Roles instructs you as to where your Army List Entries fit in your army list.
  2. The BRB is very careful in defining a Faction as a nebulous concept. It is not only a Codex anymore but as illustrated on pg.116 of the BRB, a collection of Army List Entries (or units as most of us would call them) that can be found over a wide range of sources. It further goes on to stipulate that a detachment may be formed of only units from a specific source, such as a codex (BRB pg.117) but that that may not necessarily be the case. In fact, you don’t even have to use a points anymore if you don’t want to (BRB pg.116).
  3. Your Faction is spread out over multiple rules sources but essentially defines a race or army in 40K as we used to know it. You have your Faction’s Codex, Data Slates, Formations, Forge World units, Supplements, etc. All of those now are viable places from which to pull units out of and place them into a detachment so long as they are the same Faction.
  4. Your Primary Detachment is defined as that lead by your Warlord (BRB pg.117). This is really important. Your Warlord defines your army in many ways including many special rules. This influences who you can ally with, what LoW your CAD can use, etc. Your Warlord essentially forms the foundation upon which your CAD is built.

To sum it up, you can draw units from anywhere and put them together into a list in any way you want.

It comes down to us to define how we write a list and what rules we will use, if any, when we come together to play. We have total freedom now to define the game we play. There is no “right” or “wrong” way to do this, now. There is only the way we choose to do it. For the BAO specifically we define this as:

  • 1850 Points
  • 1 CAD
  • 0-1 Allied Detachment, must be a different Faction than the CAD
  • 0-1 Formation. If taken, an Allied Detachment cannot be taken.
  • 0-1 Fortification from a defined list.
  • 0-1 Lord of War from a defined list.

what had hapenned was

Now, there is some confusion on the topic of the Allied Detachment being a different Faction than the CAD that I want to address briefly as it comes up a lot. The BRB explicitly states that the ally faction must be different than the CAD faction and goes on to further specifically define a faction as including any supplements of that faction. It is clear as day. However, many of the Codex Supplements say that they may ally with the parent codex as battle brothers. The BRB also states that the Codex trumps the BRB on specific rules conflicts. Also clear as day. These directly contradict one another in a loop that will drive you crazy if you think about it too long. It becomes a chicken and the egg question of does the BRB override the codex as it is newer and an edition change trumps all else, or do you go with the specific over the general? The answer is: it doesn’t matter.

When taken in the context of 7th ed, it is no longer about what is “right” but about what is preference. If you are playing with multiple CADs you simply take a second CAD for the supplement army. Similarly you could take 2 CADs of the same faction from the same source which the BRB tells us would count as battle bros, too. Or, if you choose to play with a faction being able to ally with them self using the allied detachment format, you can do that, too. Again, it is all about preference. That’s rad! But, it does mean we have to decide in advance how we define all of these things and which set of rules we use in our events.

down to business

==So making a list for the BAO, specifically. Let’s do it!==

1 Combined Arms Detachment

  1. All of your army list entries in your CAD for the BAO must be drawn from the same Faction.
  2. All available Factions for the BAO are listed on page 118 of the BRB. (For our purposes, we consider Legion of the Damned to be a supplement of the Space Marines Faction and the Militarum Tempestus to be a supplement of the Astra Militarum Faction for now, we are waiting to hear back from GW as to how to treat these).
  3. You may draw Army List Entries (units) from the following sources for that CAD so long as they are a part of your Faction.
    1. Codex
    2. Codex Supplement
    3. Data Slate
    4. Forge World 40K Approved units (note, in previous years we allowed non 40K approved units but are not now as many of them are drawn from sources that have not been updated for 7th edition, yet).
  4. You are limited to the Force Organization Chart of your CAD for the number of Army List Entries you can field. Usually this will be 1-2 HQ, 2-6 Troops, 0-3 of Elites, Fast Attack and Heavy Support per the FoC. Some factions’ detachments will be structured differently, such as Space Wolves or Inquisition.
  5. Your Warlord determines your Primary Detachment. Further, for any Faction wide rules use your Primary Detachment to determine which, if any, are in effect. Your Warlord also determines if you gain access to any source specific units, warlord traits or special wargear, etc. If more than one HQ choice has these type of rules, only the Warlord’s are used.
    1. Example: If Lysander is your Warlord, you are using a Space Marines Faction CAD with the Imperial Fists Chapter Tactics and all other units in this CAD must also use Imperial Fists Chapter Tactics and be of the Space Marines Faction as outlined in the Space Marines codex. You could then choose any Space Marines Factions units from Space Marines Factions Data Slates, Forge World 40K Approved Space Marines Faction units, the Space Marines Codex or the Sentinels of Terra Supplement to fill out the rest of your CAD.  Any units chosen from another source would have access to wargear accessible to that model, such as an HQ chosen from the Sentinels of Terra Supplement being able to take Chapter Relics from that Supplement following the normal restrictions.
      1. Note, you could not take units from the Clan Raukaan Supplement in this CAD as they have different Chapter Tactics. They could, however, be taken as an Allied Detachment as the GW FAQ specifically allows the Space Marines Faction to take a Space Marines Allied Detachment so long as they have different Chapter Tactics.
    2. Example: If you were to use an HQ from the Farsight Enclave Supplement as your Warlord, you would be using a Tau Faction CAD. You would have access to the Farsight Enclave Warlord Traits and Signature Systems as well as the Eight (Farsight Enclave special suit units such as O’Vesa). Further, Crisis Suits would be troops in your CAD and you would be required to take a unit of 3 Crisis Suits as a troop unit. You would not be able to take Shadowsun or Aun’Va in that CAD. You would be able to select any eligible units from the Farsight Enclave Supplement, Tau Codex, Tau Faction 40K Approved units or Tau Faction Data Slates. Any unit chosen from another source would have access to wargear accessible to that model, such as an HQ chosen from the Tau Codex being able to take Signature Systems from that Supplement, ie. Buffmander.
    3. Example: If you were to take a Black Legion Supplement Chaos Space Marine HQ as your Warlord you would be playing a Chaos Space Marines Faction CAD. All of your units that can take Veterans of the Long War must do so, and Chosen would be troops as usual for the Black Legion. You would also get access to the Black Legion Warlord Traits and Chaos Artifacts list. You could then choose any Chaos Space Marines Faction 40K Approved Forge World units, Chaos Space Marines Faction Data Slates such as Be’Lakor or Chaos Space Marines Codex or Crimson Slaughter Supplement units. Units taken from a source would have access to wargear accessible to that model, such as a Crimson Slaughter HQ having access to their Chaos Artifact list.

Sounds really confusing, right? It’s actually not. Think of it in these terms: Your Warlord determines the source from which you are working out of. Everything else is being added to that. 

0-1 Allied Detachment

  1. All of your army list entries in your Allied Detachment must be drawn from the same faction.
  2. Your Allied Detachment HQ determines the source from which you are working from.
  3. This must be a different Faction than your CAD, but an eligible ally for your CAD. Come the Apocalypse Allies will not be allowed.
  4. You are limited to the FOC for the Allied Detachment, but can draw the Army List Entries from multiple sources as described above.
  5. If you take an Allied Detachment you cannot take a Formation.
  6. The Inquisition Codex counts as the Allied Detachment if it is taken and is not the CAD.

0-1 Formation

  1. Follow the normal rules for Formations as outlined in the BRB, pg. 121
  2. If you take a Formation, you cannot also take an Allied Detachment.
  3. Your Formaiton can be the same Faction as your CAD.

0-1 Fortification

  1. Please note, no upgrades from Stronghold Assault may be purchased for any Fortifications except for the Comms Relay, Quad Gun or Icarus Las Cannon upgrades, and weapon upgrades for the Fortress of Redemption. We are doing this for the sake of ease of play for the BAO 2014. We are open to adding more Fortifications and upgrades going forward in future events.
  2. You can choose a Fortification for your CAD from the following list:
    1. Aegis Defense Line
    2. Fortress of Redemption
    3. Imperial Bastion
    4. Promethium Relay Pipes
    5. Skyshield Landing Pad
    6. Void Shield Generator
    7. Firestorm Redoubt

0-1 Lord of War

  1. You can take a Lord of War in your CAD from the following list so long as it is the same Faction as your CAD. Note, we omitted a number of them based on our player poll asking for restricted access to LoW and our judgement if a LoW was overpowering and/or if it had a weapon that ignored cover and was bigger than a 5″ blast or used the Hellstorm template that ignored cover.
    1. All of the Baneblade chassis vehicles except for the Hellhammer (and Traitor’s Bane variant) and Stormsword, which are not allowed for the BAO 2014.
    2. Crassus Armored Assault Transport
    3. Gorgon Heavy Transporter
    4. Minotaur Artillery Tank
    5. All Macharius chassis vehicles
    6. All Malcador chassis vehicles except the Malcador Infernus which is not allowed for the BAO 2014
    7. Valdor Tank Hunter
    8. Marauder Bomber (may not take Hellstorm bombs)
    9. Maurader Destroyer
    10. Fellblade
    11. Cereberus Heavy Tank Destroyer
    12. Thunderhawk Transporter
    13. Greater Brass Scorpion of Khorne
    14. Obelisk
    15. Stompa
    16. Gargantuan Squiggoth
    17. Kustom Battle Fortress
    18. Kill Krusha Tank
    19. Kill Blasta
    20. Cobra
    21. Scorpion
    22. Lynx with Pulsar (but not with Sonic Lance)
    23. Tiger Shark (Escalation version)
    24. Orca Dropship
    25. Barbed Hierodule

Example List

(Please note, this is just for illustrative purposes, the points may not add up to 1850pts)

Chaos Space Marines C.A.D.

1-2 HQ

  • Warlord: Crimson Slaughter Sorcerer
    • This means your list is a Chaos Space Marines Faction working from the Crimson Slaughter book. This gives you access to Crimson Slaughter Warlord Traits, Chaos Artifacts, and Crimson Slaughter special rules such as taking Possessed as troops.
  • Be’Lakor
    • Be’Lakor is drawn from a Chaos Space Marine Data Slate and is therefore a legal choice.

0-3 Elites

  • Chaos Space Marines Terminators
  • Giant Chaos Spawn
    • This is a 40K approved Forge World unit in the Chaos Space Marines Faction and therefore a legal choice.

2-6 Troops

  • Possessed
    • As your Warlord is from the Crimson Slaughter book and uses their rules, Possessed are a Troops Choice instead of Elites.
  • Chaos Space Marines

0-3 Fast Attack

  • Heldrake

0-3 Heavy Support

  • Obliterators

0-1 Fortification

  • Void Shield Generator

0-1 Lord of War

  • Greater Brass Scorpion of Khorne

Chaos Daemons Faction Allied Detachment

1 HQ

  • Herald of Tzeentch

1-2 Troops

  • Horrors of Tzeentch

0-1 Elites

  • Chaos Decimator Daemon Engine
    • As your Allied Detachment is Chaos Daemons Faction, this 40K Approved Forge World Chaos Daemons Faction unit is a legal choice.

0-1 Fast Attack

  • Screamers of Tzeentch

0-1 Heavy Support

  • Soul Grinder

math hurts

Closing Thoughts

Whew, hopefully that helps to clarify everything. Basically use your Warlord as the foundation from which the rest of your army is built.

In the above list, the Chaos Space Marine CAD could have swapped Be’Lakor for another HQ from the Chaos Space Marine Codex or Black Legion Supplement as the second HQ choice and had access to their respective Chaos Artifacts if they had wanted to do so. As this character is not the Warlord though, any special rules or units associated with the source this HQ came from would not be applicable. For example, if a Black Legion HQ was taken, all of the units able to take VotLW would not have to do so and Chosen would not be Troops choices. In application, this is the only time you will see this kind of swapping around: to grab a cool character from another source. Forge World units will pop up, too, but those tend to be much more straight forward. Most commonly swapping will occur in the HQ section. Players will choose the Primary Detachment source they want to work with through their Warlord, and then add the units they like from there.

What this does is allow every Faction all of their options! Cool, you can build your list from any source available to your Faction which is awesome. This gives you more freedom than ever before in terms of variety. What it does though, is hold everyone to the same limits of the Force Organization Chart. Every CAD will have the same potential number of units (with a few exceptions of course for things like Space Wolves getting 4 HQ, etc.). What you won’t see is Eldar allied with Eldar and 4 Wraithknights. In the above system, everyone gets access to just as much, if not more, options as before, but with the same limitations of the CAD that everyone else abides by.

Is this the only way to do it?

No, of course not. As I stated at the beginning of the article, this is just one way to do it. You could make it much simpler by saying only 1 source could be used for any detachment if you wanted to, such as Black Legion being 1 CAD and Crimson Slaughter being a 2nd CAD. However, you then can end up with something like 6 Heldrakes in a list which tends to turn people off. This way you get all the options without so much opportunity for spam. It also really limits the opportunity to layer USRs though combining lots of Characters which is the root of most Deathstar units that tend to also turn people off.

You can run your event or club night however you want, but we like this as it sticks to the book fairly closely, allows maximum options with reasonable limitations.

Let us know if this helped to clear things up! 7th is a bit confusing to put it mildly, but this will hopefully make it easy to write your list for the BAO and focus on having fun!

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About Reecius

The fearless leader of the intrepid group of gamers gone retailers at Frontline Gaming!

92 Responses to “Writing a List for 7th ed 40K and the BAO 2014”

  1. Aaron Bilansky June 11, 2014 10:29 pm #

    wait a minute thats the smartest thing i ever heard anyone say about anyhting

  2. Avi June 11, 2014 10:32 pm #

    So how does this work with the FW Dark Harvest list; normally they are only Allies of Convenience with regular Necrons, can they join each others units when taken as part of the same CAD now?

    • Reecius
      Reecius June 11, 2014 10:53 pm #

      We are not allowing FW army lists this year as they have not been updated for 7th Ed.

      • Avi June 11, 2014 11:00 pm #

        Oh right. I just wanted to use the Warlord table haha.
        Good looking system, I look forward to seeing what people do with it.

        • Reecius
          Reecius June 12, 2014 10:16 am #

          Haha, fair enough! It is a cool Warlord table. I think for the LVO so long as the FW Army Lists are updated, we’ll include those, too.

  3. CNitram June 11, 2014 10:51 pm #

    This is great! Not overly complicated but still allows a full range of variety within the FOC structure.

    I think that as long as each match has a ~5 minute “pre-game”, between opponents, to highlight what is being fielded, then their should be no surprises.

    • Reecius
      Reecius June 11, 2014 10:55 pm #

      Thanks! And yeah, this should keep it tame while allowing max options. As long as the warlord is noted, the rest is straight forward.

  4. Joshhodg June 11, 2014 11:08 pm #

    Just two questions. As a specific example if I take buffmander as my warlord would a riptide be able to take the earth caste upgrade since I didn’t choose a farsight enclaves warlord? Also why did you nix the harridan? It’s the only lord of war I have and it doesn’t fit ignores armor or cover or blast weapons rules. It just has the 12 shots at S10 Ap3 with BS3. Is it because T8 is too good on a flyer?

    • Chuck June 12, 2014 8:27 am #

      I’d like to see Reece’s response to this, but I would guess that the answer is no, because the rule allowing Riptides to take Signature Systems is a special rule for a Farsight Enclaves army, not an extra entry on their Riptide. Since you are taking Tau as the Warlord (and thus defining the CAD with the generic Tau rules), your army doesn’t have that rule so your Riptides can’t take the systems.

      On the flip side, you could take a Farsight HQ as your Warlord, opening up Riptides to take Signature Systems, and then take a 2nd HQ that is a Buffmander chosen from generic Tau, since that is what he is allowed to take.

      • Reecius
        Reecius June 12, 2014 8:53 am #

        You nailed it Chuck!

        As for the Harridan, we thought for one, the model is just so huge to have on a crowded tournament table, 2, yeah it felt a little too powerful. We erred on the side of caution with the LoW this time as it is the first outing. Maybe next time we’ll allow more.

        • AbusePuppy June 12, 2014 3:31 pm #

          I’m not sure I understand here. Are you required to take an HQ from your “sub-faction” in order to “qualify” as part of them? If I took only a Farsight Enclaves HQ, would I not be able to take Tau Empire models or Signature Systems in my army?

  5. Prindlehaven June 11, 2014 11:15 pm #

    This might be a dumb question, but how do you know of a forge world unit is “40k approved”? Is there a list of those units somewhere?

    • Reecius
      Reecius June 12, 2014 10:18 am #

      All of the 40K approved Forge World units have a stamp on them showing in their FW rule books.

  6. Schadenfreude June 11, 2014 11:19 pm #

    So space marines can ally with space marines, but they can’t ally with AM/IG. With the single CAD restriction the only battle brothers left in the game is SM/SM, eldar/DE, and CSM/deamons.

    • Joshhodg June 11, 2014 11:23 pm #

      Imperial is not a faction. For instance dark angels is a seperate faction from blood angels. So all your imperial buddies can still ally.

    • Reecius
      Reecius June 12, 2014 8:31 am #

      They have a stamp on their unit entry that says 40k approved in the Forge World books.

  7. Schadenfreude June 12, 2014 12:16 am #

    Sounds good then.

    • Reecius
      Reecius June 12, 2014 8:30 am #

      Yes, as it says in the article, refer to page 118 of the BRB for a list of Factions.

  8. wighti June 12, 2014 1:10 am #

    Are you certain that the Tau commander can pick the his own signature system if he’s in a Farsight enclaves CAD?

    How the FAQ’d Signature system rule is written in the codex:

    ‘Any character in a Farsight Enclaves detachment that may select Signature systems may not select from those listen in the Codex: Tau Empire, but may instead select from the Signature systems of the Farsight Enclaves (opposite), at the points costs shown. Note that XV104 Riptides in a Farsight Enclaves detachment may select items from the Signature systems of the Farsight Enclaves’

    So we’re back at square one we had in the previous edition when it read ‘in your army’ instead of the ‘a Farsight enclaves detachment’ we have now. If you’re allowed to take from more than one source in your CAD the units from the Tau Empire book will be made into Farsight units since all the rules written say that they apply to Tau units in your detachment. Ie. your Tau empire commander can only buy Farsight enclaves Signature systems thus he’s a carbon copy of a Farsight commander or how your Fire Warriors bought from the Tau Empire side still have to take bonding knife ritual and get preferred enemy(orks) in melee since they’re are a part of your Farsight Enclaves detachment.

    Now, when you ally them in as a allied detachment things are different since they are their own separate detachments. And as far as I understood, the Farsight Codex trumps the BRB and allows you to ally in Tau Empire even though they are the same Faction.

    • Reecius
      Reecius June 12, 2014 8:42 am #

      I think you missed the point of the article. Not being insulting at all, just that I addressed all of this directly.

      Try to stop thinking about it in terms of codex. Codex is gone. It is now faction. If you take a Tau Faction, you can take any Tau units from Tau rules. If you choose a Farsight warlord, you have Farsight rules. You can, however, take a suit commander from the tau codex with his signature systems, and add him into your cad as the second HQ slot.

      All of the supplements say they can ally with their parent codex except for Eldar. The BRB says none of them can. The Space Marine codex says it can ally with itself, too, but GW felt it neccesary to FAQ that they could ally with themself in the 7th Ed FAQ. But, again, its irrelevant. All that matters is how we decide to play. Army structure is 100% up to us, now. There is no correct way to do it anymore.

      • wighti June 12, 2014 8:48 am #

        But are you ignoring the fact that a Farsight enclaves *detachment* cannot take any signature systems from the Tau empire book. And, as far as I’ve understood it, a detachment is considered to be a Farsight Enclaves detachment if the Warlord comes from it no?

        • wighti June 12, 2014 8:50 am #

          If you had 2 CAD’s with one being Farsight and the other being Tau Empire, then I’d see it working like in the article.

          • Reecius
            Reecius June 12, 2014 8:57 am
            #

            Think of it this way: if you take a farsight enclave warlord, you use their rules. If you choose to bring in an HQ from the normal tau codex, he comes with his own unique stuff and joins into your CAD. Think of it as an allied HQ but in a single FOC. Like if you brought a 40k approved Forge World Tau HQ with his own unique wargear along and added him to your list, he’d have all of his stuff.

          • wighti June 12, 2014 9:01 am
            #

            I completely see what you’re driving at and hell, I play Farsight Enclaves myself, it just feels like … why would just play one or the other from here on?

            There would be no logical reason *not* to run both in my list. I’d take the few good bits from the Enclaves book(namely the earth cast pilot array and the talisman) and just tack them on my nomal Tau list.

            Guess I’m just trying to preserve the last bit of what made the two, who already weren’t all that different, different.

          • Reecius
            Reecius June 12, 2014 10:21 am
            #

            I totally understand you. And, we aren’t saying this HAS to be the way everyone does it. But, this allows people all the options they want but with restrictions that armies that don’t have supplements also face.

            Instead of going Tau/Tau as we did in 6th, for 7th ed BAO you just go Tau CAD with the same amount of options but less slots in the FoC.

            We’re trying to give everyone what they want with reasonable limitations to keep it fun. But I totally understand what you’re saying.

  9. Pascal Roggen June 12, 2014 2:18 am #

    Just checking, so I could take a clan raukaan CM as my warlord, give him the gorgons chain+bike+thunderhammer+lightning claw.
    then for my second HQ I could take an Iron hands chapter master with
    the Shield eternal+bike+thunderhammer.

    cause… that would be pretty awesome:)

  10. Nuwisha June 12, 2014 2:54 am #

    So no 40 Lone Wolves with Plasma and Melts Bombs alongside the equal opportunity hater Inquisitor Karamazov, killing your own guy for profit and fun?

    • Reecius
      Reecius June 12, 2014 8:59 am #

      Hahaha, not in competitive, but in friendly? Yes!

  11. Julio Rodriguez June 12, 2014 4:30 am #

    Pascal I was gonna take 4 Chapter Masters exactly like those in your comment to the Golden Throne but then it canceled.

    • Reecius
      Reecius June 12, 2014 10:22 am #

      You can still take 3 if you go Mainres CAD and Marines Allied Detachment =P

  12. Evan S June 12, 2014 6:03 am #

    The way I’m reading the BRB, I think there’s some confusion over the term Detachment as GW is using it. RAW, your list of allowable detachments technically forbids Knights and Inquisition, since they have their own unique detachments that are neither CAD nor an Allied Detachment (both are specific force orgs which Knights and Inquisition are exceptions to).

    With that understanding, restrictions could be streamlined to be: 1-2 detachments, and if you take a second detachment, it cannot be a CAD.

    • Reecius
      Reecius June 12, 2014 8:05 am #

      There will be lots of little inconsistencies like this now in 7th. But, you are right, those two use there own rules for a CAD per their book instead of the normal CAD just like Space Wolves or Daemons have a modified CAD, too.

  13. Smellofwetdog June 12, 2014 7:05 am #

    It’s like GW is a dog on a beach dropping little rules nuggets hither and yon at will. Reece has come along, lined up and organized all those little nuggets in neat little rows and color coded them. I thank you sir, and I hope you wore gloves and washed your hands before eating.

    • Reecius
      Reecius June 12, 2014 9:00 am #

      Lol, felt like I was studying for a final! Haha

  14. Hotsauceman1 June 12, 2014 7:21 am #

    Ehh, I am not using supplements so im fine

    • DCannon4Life June 12, 2014 7:55 am #

      Everybody ends up taking supplements eventually. You must be blessed with youth and good health.

    • Reecius
      Reecius June 12, 2014 10:23 am #

      Yeah, good point. If you don’t use a supplement you can basically ignore this entire article and build your army as you did in 6th, lol!

      • Hotsauceman1 June 12, 2014 11:02 am #

        Well until the White Scars Supplement comes, or shadowsun supplement

        • Reecius
          Reecius June 12, 2014 11:45 am #

          Something to look forward to =)

  15. Nuln-Oil June 12, 2014 8:00 am #

    Thanks for the article. It makes a lot of sense, and it’s really helpful. Much appreciated!

  16. Timatron June 12, 2014 8:38 am #

    Slight mistake I noticed: In the Chaos example at the bottom there, the Daemons allied detachment doesn’t have a Greater Daemon, so a Daemon Prince couldn’t be a Heavy Support choice. Just a tiny detail, the rest of the article was really clear and concise Reece. I’ll bung this up in Brighton Warlords now.

  17. fluger June 12, 2014 10:21 am #

    So, as an example. If I had an IG main detachment and allied in Space Marines, I couldn’t also get a single Inquisitor?

  18. BBF June 12, 2014 10:39 am #

    GREAT ARTICLE !!!

  19. winterman June 12, 2014 10:41 am #

    So what if I take SM primary and Inquistion detachment as my ally, then make the inquistor my warlord (per inquisition rules). How do I determine the source I am working from for the SM detachment?

    Also I believe the 7ed rulebook allows the warlord to be selected from your allied detachment if you so wish (while still having a CAD detachment). Is that not the case at BAO? And if that is allowed then how do you determine the source?

    Just smoke testing your rules 🙂

    Also find it interesting that the Imperial Bunker and Martyer Wall pieces were disallowed. They seem no more or less abusable or space hogs then any other thing listed as allowed.

    • kalhoun June 12, 2014 11:00 am #

      Hmm, that’s actually a good point. Maybe it was an oversight that the Bunker and Emplacement are also individual things and not only networked? It’s the networks that seemed to be the problem.

      • Reecius
        Reecius June 12, 2014 11:01 am #

        Yeah, we dropped all the Netowrks as many of them are just too dang big.

        • kalhoun June 12, 2014 11:12 am #

          but what about the individual 55pt bunker or just the single trench?

          • Reecius
            Reecius June 12, 2014 12:30 pm
            #

            We’re keeping it simple this time, fellas. I myself just am too unfamiliar with some of the Fortifications and don’t have time to really learn it. I don’t want to be blindsided by something at the event, so for now, it will be just that list above with only weapon upgrades to Fortifications. Going forward though, we can branch out a bit.

        • winterman June 12, 2014 11:27 am #

          Yeah that’s what I was curious about, a lot of that stuff can be taken individual outside of a network

    • Reecius
      Reecius June 12, 2014 11:00 am #

      Yeah, the stupid Inquisition breaks all the dang rules, lol!

      But, yeah, the exception to the rule is the Inquisition. You can make him your Warlord even if he is a single model. In this case, you simply notate on your Army List that he is the Warlord but otherwise build it normally form there. Use your CAD HQ to determine source.

      Feel free to try and poke holes in this though, as it will surely come up.

      The Foritifcations list was pulled strictly from the Stronghold Assault book. We can add some to that list though if they are reasonable, I am not against it, those were just the Fortifications I am familiar with, personally.

      • DCannon4Life June 12, 2014 11:15 am #

        Did you answer the question (asked in another thread) about whether or not the fortifications had access to *all* the upgrades/accessories? For example, I think you can get a Bastion AND a defense line (and a quad gun and some tangle wire and some barrels and etc.)….

        • kalhoun June 12, 2014 11:18 am #

          all the Obstacles, etc. have to be set up wholly within 6″. So it’s not like the footprint of taking a whole network. You can’t take a defense line with a bastion, but you could add barricades (unless it’s clarified otherwise, which is good to bring up).

        • Reecius
          Reecius June 12, 2014 12:30 pm #

          No upgrades except for weapon upgrades this time around.

      • kalhoun June 12, 2014 11:27 am #

        So assuming the 55pt bunker works (if not, replace with Firestorm redoubt), you can…
        upgrade the building to have a personal Void Shield (which I read to only work on the building itself, and the occupants on the battlements, because it’s not Projected),
        throw 3 (up to 6) sections of Tanglewire (and/or Barricades/tank traps) in front of it,
        and give it a comms relay(or ammo dump/gun emplacement).

        That bunker (and upgrades) will be a smaller footprint than the Fort of Redemption.
        Worth note, you can buy a BUNCH of upgrades for the Fort of Redemption as well, expanding its perimeter.

        • Reecius
          Reecius June 12, 2014 11:58 am #

          Yeah, let’s not do that this time around, lol! We’re going to keep it simple.

          • kalhoun June 12, 2014 12:38 pm
            #

            So, Assuming the following then to try and help nail it down.
            The following Fortification upgrades will be allowed:
            Building: No
            Obstacle: No
            Battlement: Yes

          • Reecius
            Reecius June 12, 2014 12:44 pm
            #

            Anything specifically on that list is allowed. Anything not, is not.

          • Adam
            Adam June 12, 2014 2:31 pm
            #

            Just to be clear, the Fortifications that you listed are all allowed any upgrades that they can normally take through Stronghold Assault? Just want to be sure, otherwise you couldn’t add a quadgun to an Aegis Defense Line for example.

          • Adam
            Adam June 12, 2014 2:32 pm
            #

            Scratch that, misread what you said. 🙂

          • kalhoun June 12, 2014 3:19 pm
            #

            Roger.
            Last clarification: Comms Relay is not on that list.
            I’m assuming you’d want anything that people historically took with Aegis to still be allowed.

          • Reecius
            Reecius June 12, 2014 3:25 pm
            #

            Good point, will do so.

      • winterman June 12, 2014 11:35 am #

        I think the imperial bunker is a reasonable fortification. The only complaint I have heard regarding it is that it is essentially a cheaper bastion. If it were legal I’d expect them to become more popular as time goes on. I was personally waiting to see how events ruled them as I much prefer to make my tyranid encrusted fortification out of the bunker vs the bastion.

        The two varieties of non-networked martyr trenches can take up a bit of space and are really not as good or as flexible as an ADL but they are cool looking. I doubt many would want to take them but for theme/appearance. Could be wrong though.

      • AbusePuppy June 12, 2014 3:34 pm #

        Just to point out, you can actually nominate ANY character as your warlord (or a non-character if you have no characters.) If you really want Tactical Sergeant Derpus to have command over your Chapter Master, that’s legal.

        (Allied characters still can’t be warlords, but that’s a specific restriction in the Allied Detachment rules.)

        • Reecius
          Reecius June 12, 2014 3:53 pm #

          Yeah, but we assume they meant HQ Character =)

          • kalhoun June 13, 2014 3:17 pm
            #

            Unless you’re Iyanden 🙂

  20. Alex Yuen June 12, 2014 1:00 pm #

    The biggest problem with 7th ed is going to be time. writing a list that can finish 5-7 game turns is something to keep it in mind when writing an army list.

  21. Ming June 12, 2014 3:50 pm #

    Nicely explained. Hope my local flgs TO can provide clear rules like this for their events. How or when will you proof lists to make sure they are valid for the BAO?

  22. Mike June 12, 2014 4:24 pm #

    Hey reecius, any particular reason the vengeance weapons battery’s weren’t allowed? Chaos could really use some anti flyer, against crons and storm ravens were kinda out of luck.

  23. Joe C June 13, 2014 10:30 am #

    So an Astra Militarum CAD could take tempestus scions form the tempestus codex as their 2 troop choices?

    • Adam
      Adam June 13, 2014 12:04 pm #

      Yes as they are being treated as the same faction.

      • Reecius
        Reecius June 13, 2014 12:11 pm #

        As of right now, yes, I eamiled GW to see what they have to say about it.

        • Adam
          Adam June 13, 2014 12:36 pm #

          Hopefully you get a response, they seem to have been not really responding to questions lately.

          • Reecius
            Reecius June 13, 2014 1:09 pm
            #

            I got an initial response, so I am hopeful we get another!

      • Chris S June 14, 2014 9:10 am #

        Why are they being treated as the same faction as Astra Militarum?

        In codex Militarum Tempestus, page 60:
        “All of the Formations and Army List Entries in this book are part of the Militarum Tempestus Faction.”

        It then goes on to say they are battle brothers for all Armies of the Imperium.

        Nowhere does it say they are a supplement to codex Astra Militarum.

        • Reecius
          Reecius June 14, 2014 9:45 am #

          That is why, BRB pg. 118 doesnt list them as a faction so its pretty confusing. I can only interpret that as a supplement, but I agree it feels like they are their own faction. GWs website says Tuey are an army, too.

          • Chris S June 14, 2014 11:25 pm
            #

            I don’t see how that confuses anything, there is nothing saying that they are part of Astra militarum.

            The list in the main rulebook doesn’t contradict anything in the Militarum Tempestus codex.

            Though let me ask you this, if they continue to add new factions, will they automatically be assumed to be in some kind of limbo because they don’t appear on that page?

            If the codex is clear and doesn’t contradict anything, why would a separate FAQ be needed?

        • Reecius
          Reecius June 14, 2014 9:49 am #

          I wrote GW asking them how to clarify the book, LotD, too. I will hopefully hear back by Monday.

          • Chris S June 14, 2014 11:29 pm
            #

            Yeah, I’d agree that LotD is more confusing because it doesn’t use any of the terminology regarding factions.

  24. Alex June 13, 2014 2:00 pm #

    So nids still can’t get a second detachment at BAO?

    • Reecius
      Reecius June 13, 2014 2:13 pm #

      Formations.

      • Alex June 15, 2014 7:25 pm #

        Fair enough. Skyblight it is then 🙂

  25. Hollismason June 15, 2014 6:36 am #

    Maybe I am still confused on the requirements. Does this mean that the following is not allowed.

    Primary

    HQ
    2 Hqs
    Troops
    2Hqs

    Secondary
    HQ
    2 HQs
    2 Troops

    ???

    But if i do that I can’t have an ally detachment?

  26. Eric June 15, 2014 6:47 am #

    So, if I understand this correctly Reecius, (we’ll for a moment assume Forge World is allowed)

    by the BRB rules-

    Astra Militarum and Death Korps of Krieg, both being Imperial Guard, are the same faction.

    Therefore, if I wanted, say, Death Riders of Krieg in my army, I could take an AM HQ choice, 2 AM troops, and then the Death Riders as a Fast Attack, but being Death Riders they wouldn’t be able to benefit from AM orders- I would need to take a Death Korps HQ (possibly within the same detachment!) to do so?

    • Reecius
      Reecius June 15, 2014 3:42 pm #

      No FW army lists, but 40K approved units, yes.

  27. Malisteen June 22, 2014 1:20 pm #

    Example 1.5.c in this article is incorrect, in terms of how the chaos marine supplements work (I do not own the other supplements to vouch for them one way or another).

    The CSM supplements have no unit entries to draw from. They are instead modifications to codex: chaos space marine unit entries, and to use them you apply those modifications not to individual units, but to entire detachments.

    You cannot select ‘a character from the crimson slaughter supplement’, as there is no such thing. There are only characters from codex: CSMs, and if the CSM character is selected within a detachment that has been designated a ‘black legion’ or ‘crimson slaughter’ detachment, then all of the rules variations and requirements apply to that character.

    As such, you may not have a black legion character and a crimson slaughter character in the same detachment. If the detachment is a ‘black legion’ detachment, then its rules and restrictions (including vets requirements and alternative artifacts list) apply to the entire detachment, including all CSM characters within it. If it is not a ‘black legion detachment’, then none of the characters or units have access to the special rules thereof.

    You may include black legion stuff and crimson slaughter stuff and supplementless parent book stuff within the same army, but they must all come from separate detachments.

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