Which Armies are Looking Strong in 7th Ed?

Hey everyone, Reecius here from Frontline Gaming to talk shop about which armies are looking strong in 7th edition!

It’s still very early in the game and there is a lot of nuance to uncover yet in this edition, but so far looking at the game which is largely what we had in 6th in terms of game mechanics (baring the new psychic phase, of course) we can make some educated guesses. We have played roughly 12 games so far in the shop so far in 7th and while there is still a lot to learn, I think the strong books are revealing themselves already.

What has changed quite a bit is the mission parameters. The big rule is that everything now scores. That is a huge change, taking us back to 4th ed. The Objective Secured rule is also a big change as it means those units with it override units without in terms of holding objectives. Basically, troops will dominate the scoring game and own everyone else who tries to step into their house.

As this rule is transferred onto dedicated transports that are bought for units with Objective Secured, you can easily spot ways in which this becomes very good, very fast. In 6th I was having a lot of fun playing a Raven Guard Rhino Rush list, with 60 Tac Marines in Scouting Rhinos. I wasn’t the only one to play that list and it was doing quite well then. It won because you simply had too many scoring bodies protected by vehicles for the other player to deal with before endgame. Well, now this exact same list got even better. Significantly better! You Combat Squad everything unless it is Kill Points and boom, 18 scoring units with the OS rule. Yes, that means the Rhinos are also scoring units now that can’t be contested except by other Objective Secured units. And, the Rhinos got harder to kill, too. Wowzers!

Now extrapolate that out into armies like Drop Pod Marines who do the same thing, just a little differently. Drop Pods can be dropped onto every objective turn 1. If you are using Maelstrom Missions that is a HUGE advantage. Or, consider Battlewagons/Land Raiders/Wave Serpents/etc. as dedicated transports with the OS rule. That’s pretty powerful for winning games. Now that the Dark Angels Power Field Generator works from within vehicles again (thank the Emperor! The poor Dark Angels needed some love) and Wave Serpents can quite easily get a 3+ cover save on top of being very fast, these units become really powerful. Combined with the fact that FMCs (the bane of vehicles) now don’t auto-explode tanks they touch in combat as Smash got nerfed, and assaulting after flying is verboten, Mech is almost certainly going to be making a comeback. And, I am fine with that, honestly. I love seeing tanks on the table for aesthetic reasons and because it speeds games up. I think the balance between FMC/MC and tanks has come closer into balance which is a good thing.

Units like Eldar Jetbikes, notoriously good scoring units, got a little bit better, too. Now, when they perform their obnoxious last turn objective grab, they can’t be stopped by contesting units unless they are also OS units.

But, let’s not forget the non-OS units that can all score, now, too. Now, you don’t HAVE to leave a scoring unit in the backfield for holding a home objective. You can just take a Devastator Squad or Leman Russ, etc. and camp them out back there. It makes your list a bit more points efficient. My Orks always took a unit of Grots for camping an objective, now the Lootas can just do it themselves saving me those points (although admittedly, in peril of having it taken by an enemy OS unit).

The point here being, lists that spam out OS troops are going to be very, very good at winning missions. Maybe not at wiping the floor with their opponent’s army, but they will win games. I like this a lot, as it encourages tactical play which is how I write my lists, anyway. Most of my armies already were troop heavy. I know my 60 Scout army is loving life at the moment! Armies like Space marines particularly who have fantastic troops, will love this type of play-style and do very well. Orks, Space Wolves, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Imperial Guard, Daemons, etc. also can really take advantage of this rule. The cool thing is though, if you prefer to make armies that are heavier on kill power, you still get a boost, too, as now all of your units can score, which is cool. It caters to both play-styles.

Daemon Summoning. Is it really as crazy as everyone is making it out to be or is this more of a case of over-reacting to something new? The short answer: yeah, it really is OP.

The way I imagine GW designed the psychic phase in this edition is with a reasonable number of dice in the pool on either side of the table in which case the new psychic phase is really cool and fair. It limits the odds of getting powers off and makes it much more tactically engaging as you have to weigh the odds and use your dice in a fun mini-game.

However, Just as with Fantasy where they initially didn’t have a limit on Magic Dice and Vamps came in with summoning spam and it was stupid (which, you know, wouldn’t that have served as a lesson for now?) we have the potential now for the same thing with Daemon Summoning Spam. If you only have a few psykers and a reasonable number of dice to throw around, it is not that big of a deal. If you write a list to maximize your dice, it skews things wildly out of balance and makes them game less fun.

When you have 40 dice to throw at the psychic phase and your opponent has 3, clearly, that is not fair. We have math-hammered it out and a list built to summon at maximum efficiency will average about 500pts of new units per turn, give or take. Throwing 5 dice at a WC3 power gives you a 50% chance of success (and yes, it is 5, not 6 dice) with an average of 40 dice gives you 4 successful casts per turn. It is more efficient to throw less dice at a power, but cast it more frequently than to throw more dice at it and get incrementally less benefit per die added to the casting attempt which also increases your odds of perils. And, playing to maximize casts increases your potential total output of new units if you get lucky.

Assuming you roll an average of 4 WC on the D6, you should be able to get another successful summon every other turn or three, averaging you out at roughly 500pts per turn (and remember, units come with icons, Champ, etc.). While some people may genuinely like that type of game, which is fine, it simply doesn’t work for organized play. It could be a blast for a narrative game, though.

When one army can have a 4,000pt+ force to fight another’s 1,750pt force, that is patently unfair. Plus, it takes ages to play the game, our first go with it took almost 6 hours and was so boring. Both players were completely over it by the end.

So, anyway, lol, rant aside, while this mechanic is in effect it is obviously really powerful and therefore Daemons who do this best, are right now extremely powerful. However, I can almost assure you all that this is going to get nerfed for tournament play as it is not fun (at least not to us), too powerful, and it takes too dang long for timed games.

I think the new Big Dog in the yard though, is going to be Astra Miliatrum. The AM are going to be taking names in a big way. I say this because they have a combination of several factors that are going to really boost them up.

For one, they have great troops. Veterans, Conscripts with a Priest, and Infantry Platoons are all fantastic scoring units. They are flexible, good on the move or static, reliable and can both deliver and take a punch.

Vehicles also got much better. This means all those tanks that the AM were taking anyway, got tougher.

Barrage got buffed (too much, IMO) as apparently, you now cannot hide from barrage weapons. This is actually going too far I think, as the other player really should have a way to play smart and minimize the impact of the devastating barrage weapons AM can bring to the table just as you can hide from direct fire weapons. However, as is, AM are going to be packing a devastating punch.

Orders are like old psychic powers that can’t be stopped. With Ignores Cover, etc. the AM can buff their units to high, holy hell and back. Combined with the their ability to pack in psykers on the cheap, too, this army will reliably force multiply itself and have good defense against their enemies trying to do the same.

Imperials also have the widest array of allies options and IG are like the bread in an Imperial PB&J. They form such a good anvil while the other factions add in the spice that mixes it up. We will be seeing lots of these types of combos and I believe AM+Fill In the Blank Imperial Ally, will be the next flavor of the month in tournaments.

Expect the AM to be back in a big way, and be prepared to build ways to counter them into your list.

Grey Knights will also be back in a big way. With vehicles better, their very strong psychic phase, and great troops, we will be seeing almost 5th ed style lists back with them. They have great psychic defense, too, and powerful characters with a nifty new set of powers to further buff them. Draigo with a 2++? Yikes.

I anticipate many players will be blowing the dust off of their Grey Knights and

Poor Chaos. They continue to languish a bit with their one good unit getting double nerfed (the Hell Turkey can now only fire forward and Vector Strikes once against ground targets at AP2). While I hate the stupid Heldrake with a burning passion, I will begrudgingly admit it was one of the only good things CSM had going for them. While the Turkey has been reined into reasonable limitations which is good for everyone else, it is bad for CSM players. However, there is some silver lining in the rules changes. 

Challenges have been changed so that the more abusive elements have been removed, which really helps Chaos who as we all know, must challenge. Champion of Chaos is still a terrible rule, but at least the CSM’s opponent can’t take as much advantage of it now as in 6th. Plus, they now get access to Divination which is such a big boost for them. Units like Forge Fiends and Oblits becomes magnificent with just a little buff. Thousand Sons, while still grossly over-costed, become a LOT better with these buffs. A number of units that previously suffered can now be taken to the table with confidence.

Also, as everything now scores, you can take cult troops in the seldom used Elites slot for CSM and not HAVE to take a Lord to unlock them as troops. While you will probably see Cultists and Zombies constituting 99% of CSM infantry, at least now you can add in some more flavorful units to score without having to take a Lord of the same mark. Nice. This also means fun stuff like Chaos Rush lists with Maulerfiends and Spawn will be better, too. Just take 2 minimum units of Cultists because you have to, and then make the rest of your army pure offense. I think Chaos will actually get quite a bit better in 7th, despite the nerf to Drakes for those reasons. It also means we will see CSM lists with something besides Double or Triple Dragon for a change. Also there’s this dude called Be’Lakor that I hear is pretty bad ass. Yeah, he helps, too!

Edit: so what do you all think? It appears Chaos may not be getting global access to Divination. The psychic cards indicate yes, but the FAQ indicates they only get Malefic. 

While at first it appeared Tau got hit hard with the nerf hammer, I think they are going to come out OK. No, Buffmander can no longer join a Ritpide (and good riddance, that was so stupid), the Riptides are now scoring models. That is pretty awesome as they are so durable. All of their vehicles got better, too, and they still have Ignores Cover and Skyfire in spades. I think Tau will change a bit in composition (which as with Chaos, good, I am going to be happy to see something besides Riptide spam) but come out stronger as a result. We will see more variety from them, and tactics that don’t revolve around simply ignoring most of the core rules which will be great, IMO.

In all, I think that we are going to be seeing the subtle changes in 7th shake up the meta. While many of the good armies stayed good, they will be putting different units on the table. Instead of Space Marine Grav Cav all day, we will also see Rhio Rush and Drop Pod armies. Instead of Seer Council or Beast Pack Eldar, it will also be Wave Serpent Spam and Jet Bike Spam. Weaker armies that couldn’t keep up will see new life, like Orks (until their new book, of course) and Dark Eldar who can now spam out loads of OS troops and transports like crazy. 

I look forward to the new meta quite a bit, actually, as I was sick to death of Deathstar 40K. 

What armies are you all seeing as having gotten a big boost in 7th?


About Reecius

The fearless leader of the intrepid group of gamers gone retailers at Frontline Gaming!

121 Responses to “Which Armies are Looking Strong in 7th Ed?”

  1. Mark May 29, 2014 10:42 am #

    No love for Necron Chariots?

    • Reecius May 29, 2014 12:23 pm #

      I haven’t tried them yet, actually. But, they do look pretty slick!

    • Slaede May 29, 2014 12:40 pm #

      When you can allocate hits meant for a skimmer to a 2+ save rider, you have pretty solid little dealy.

      • Reecius May 29, 2014 1:01 pm #

        Very true. We haven’t even dug into that, yet. But we will certainly have to and get up to speed.

  2. matthew May 29, 2014 10:47 am #

    Nids actually got a boost in 7th. Before someone crucifies me, hear me out. Nids since there latest codex has been a train wreck but 7th well its made them a very powerful flying dakka units….. crash tests are harder to inflict and opponents dont want to shoot them as they can charge afterwards. The devourer flyrant is unstoppable 12 st6 twin linked shots on something people will try to ignore or get assaulted. Plus the changes to scoring means tervigons dont necessarily have to pay the gaunt tax anymore. The flying circus is scarier and the fact we get spawn with no risks of denials, perils I think there will be a few nasty lists that will be seen of nerfed bugs. Lets not forget the new formations.

    • Vortex May 29, 2014 11:56 am #

      Vector strike got nerfed into the ground making the crone much worse…And well the harpy will never get to use its – initiate on the charge ability….

      Honestly with Nids I see nothing but nerfs….

      • Gordon May 29, 2014 6:35 pm #

        Flying Tyrants are absurdly good now.

    • No_wegian May 29, 2014 12:09 pm #

      I agree matthew. I am 2-0 so far in 7th Edition with my Nids playing both an Eternal War and Maelstrom mission; v. Chaos SM and Orks. However, I run Skyblight which some think is “cheese” but IMO it’s a necessary evil for now.

      Granted, I’ve chimed in before that I wish they would allow assaults from Scout and Outflank (since everyone has Overwatch now); but overall I am happy with how 7th is treating my bugs.

      Everything scoring is huge, and makes a big difference in our army.

    • Reecius May 29, 2014 12:25 pm #

      I like your positive outlook! I think Nids did take a hit, but will just have to change their list a bit.

      Flying units got nerfed for sure though, no more toe in the sand cover save, less vector strikes and no assault after flying is rough. But, like you said, they do get grounded less easily, which is awesome.

      I played Living Artillery and will continue to. My list got much better! =)

      • Tetrisphreak May 29, 2014 12:46 pm #

        Actually, FMCs do still get toes-in saves for ruins & rubble (4+) woods (5+), and craters (6+). Plus a 4+ jink save anywhere regardless of terrain, so in addition to their fewer number of grounding tests FMCs are still looking pretty good right now. In fact you can fly with a hive tyrant, busting up tanks and MSU with your devourers, then drop down to claim an objective later in the game and still use the jink save if needed.

        • Reecius May 29, 2014 1:04 pm #

          I read the terrain rules as only applying to infantry? I will have to reread it. I thought MCs were a straight 25% coverage.

          • Tetrisphreak May 29, 2014 1:20 pm

            Nope – it says “models.” Only vehicles have the explicit 25% restriction as perv6th edition. Regarding FMCs and terrain, it does say that they never take dangerous terrain checks, which is irrelevant because they have move through cover, but I won’t complain that GW puts some redundancy into their rules writing.

          • Reecius May 29, 2014 1:55 pm

            You are correct, sir. Ah, bummer, that was annoying, lol, a flying creature should not benefit from cover granted by a bush!

          • matthew May 29, 2014 10:28 pm

            Haha forge a narrative ya flyer has picked up the bush and is fly swatting bullets or hes a bit simple and pretending he’s invisible. I like the rules that make no sense means you get to take the piss more 😀 7th in general though I do like alot if you considered it a sandbox like you have said in previous articles you can make it your own. Only thing truly broke is daemons, having said that I play khorne themed so doesnt really affect me. I believe GW have released there tournament conditions and they seem to have fixed the balancing issues. You’re only allowed one detachment and its only the original missions have a look but I believe it is somewhere out there

    • Baz May 30, 2014 12:25 am #

      Not sure about Nids being boosted. Shadows doesn’t stop psychic powers at all, FMCs can’t land and assault, almost no AP1 or 2 guns means we are reduced to HP stripping to kill vehicles at range, vector strike being reduced, smash attacks for the weaker MCs losing attacks.

      • matthew May 30, 2014 1:00 am #

        It boosts a different method to playing nids. I dont know about anyone else but to me zoanthroapes became an essential since the latest codex plus hive guard did get a small nerf are still one of the best anti-vehicle shooters out there and there tough as nails. Yes smash and vector striking got nerfed also shadows seems moot but some of the gains we got are awesome. Within the force organisation you now take as many detachments as you wish troops and HQs for nids are essentials anyway then our elites are also now scoring. Basically nids are incredibly powerful but the method in which they have to play is completely different. Instead of being very close combat orientated we now can use overwhelming fire power from now very durable sources In the skys and spawning more and more troops on the ground. Yep mech is tougher but if your relying on smash attack and vector strikes to open them up in first place it was always a losing battle because it either never worked or you were left in open. I hate them changing the meta of nids and talent of slicing and dicing in closr combat but lets make some lemonade here. We have anti tank capabilities outside mcs or just bring a unit of carnifexs never needed to smash anyway. I am already thinking of some strong nids lists but it requires a complete shift in perspective instead of focusing on the losses look at some the gains with 7th. I am ready to be told I am an idiot now but it is only an opinion so please be relatively controlled 😛

  3. michael May 29, 2014 10:47 am #

    I think my blood angels will do a lot better with this edition. My current has been really holding up well and my 3 baal preds will love this edition!

    • Reecius May 29, 2014 12:26 pm #

      Except it seems that your vehicles are not fast anymore?! I think that was a typo…I hope so!

      • Novastar May 29, 2014 3:07 pm #

        Sicaran battle tanks, enough said lol

      • Marius Xerxes May 30, 2014 6:08 am #

        GW just FAQ’d BA vehicles to be fast again.v

  4. Lex May 29, 2014 10:51 am #

    I’m not sure if you are aware, but the Dark Angels iBook Codex actually had the Power Field Generator entry edited to include the proviso that it didn’t function in a transport.

    • nkump May 29, 2014 10:58 am #

      ah for real? Damn, what a terrible time to start up a DA army…sucks the book came out so early in 6 and its already REALLY showing its age.

      • Reecius May 29, 2014 1:07 pm #

        It was showing it’s age the day it came out, lol =P

        • nkump May 29, 2014 1:39 pm #

          touché lol I feel bad that they left all their grav technology, centurion suits, stalkers, and training manuals for Sgts to learn basic thunderhammer concepts on Caliban…

          hmm…maybe I am re-thinking this whole “luther was the bad guy” he probably had all that stuff waiting…hahah

          • AbusePuppy May 29, 2014 11:54 pm

            Protip: if you’re looking to find more cool toys and equipment, don’t switch over to Chaos. 😛

    • Reecius May 29, 2014 1:07 pm #

      Hmm, it was removed from the FAQ which made me think it went back. The print version obviously says nothing to that effect. Maybe the digital hasn’t been updated yet?

      • IndigoJack May 29, 2014 1:21 pm #

        As far as I can tell, none of the digital books have been updated. I’ve been waiting to see what happens with The inquisition codex, but so far, no updates.

        • Reecius May 29, 2014 1:50 pm #

          Maybe there’s just a lag time.

    • Novastar May 29, 2014 3:08 pm #

      To bad I have the physical copy and until they Chang the online FAQ it works in my transports lol

  5. Vendra May 29, 2014 10:57 am #

    Okay I keep seeing you say that CSM gets Divination but I think you are wrong. I have been over the book many times and I can not find that rule. In fact that only rule I find states they get what they know in their codex. The codex for CSM did not get FAQ’ed to include divination. In fact the FAQ’s specifically states they can only add Daemonology to others listed in their army list entries. The army list entries are still the same according to the codex. I think you are referring to the pic of the psychic chart that came out that has the check box in divination for CSM. However I believe that is only there because there is a way to get divination to CSM using the Crimson Slaughter artifact. If I go by the wording in the rules in the 7th edition as well as the FAQ, CSM does not get access to divination. If I go by an internet pic from some chart, then CSM does get access. I think a TO would have to go with the wording in the rules. Can you please point me to the rules where it says CSM gets divination. Believe me I really do want it for my sorcerer.

    • Caldria May 29, 2014 12:24 pm #

      I believe that card that shows the schools armies have access to, takes into account all possible ways of getting powers in the codex.

      For example Space Marines in general can not generate from Divination (but Tigurius can, so divination is accessible to Spacemarines, through Tigurius only)

      Just as Divination is accessible to chaos marines through the Balestar of Mannon and as such, there is Divination in the chaos space marines army, albeit, only through the Balestar.

      The psychic schools card is just there to show what school of cards one would expect to need when playing with one of the codices.

    • mrmattywoodz May 29, 2014 1:08 pm #

      Yeah i agree. The card just shows everything possible for models in the army, but it still has to say on the unit entry or in the FAQ that the unit can take the power. If you are just going by the checklist card that came in the psychic cards then Warlocks can take telepathy and divination, Pink horrors can take biomancy, ect.

    • Reecius May 29, 2014 1:08 pm #

      You may be correct. I was referring to the psychic cards that shows who can take what. And it shows Divination as available to CSM.

    • nkump May 29, 2014 1:43 pm #

      They did take away Divination (on the card) for Dark Angels for what thats worth…though every librarian in the book (including Ezekiel) can choose from the Divination discipline. So there must have been some weight to the new card choices. (Unless they mistakenly swapped Codex Space Marine & Dark Angels)

      • nkump May 29, 2014 1:53 pm #

        It just seems like it was an accidental swap on the reference card the more people make a case for the other card ambiguities. ??

      • Adam May 29, 2014 2:21 pm #

        honestly the reference card is worthless, all that matters is what each model is allowed to take in it’s profile. Unfortunately CSM still doesn’t get Divination because nobody has been Errata’d to be allowed to take it…

        • Caldria May 29, 2014 3:20 pm #

          Although, with the changes to biomancy – a level 3 sorcerer with a force stave is looking really tasty.

          S9 AP2 at initiative weapon with Iron Arm. And smite aint bad either, if he manages to also get warp speed, dayumn.

          So, not so sure chaos are losing out too much with divination, both biomancy and telepathy are great.

          • matthew May 29, 2014 11:13 pm

            So true about the sorceror but now compare to old mephiston who has access tp biomancy. True he lost sanguinius wings but now he has a strong possibility of st and toughness 9 with smash, 4+ fnp eternal warrior and it will not die… I dont care if he is slower he is unlikely to be hurt by a lascannon to the face now and could quite easily stand up to anything now abby, swarmlord, ridiculous grey knight character who I have forgetthere name…. dead. Biomancy is the big winner out of the old psychic powers by far since the increase in range of all the witchfires only haemorrhage is weak. Having said that ahriman could be even worse if you went all biomancy 4 rolls on the chart more shooting witchfires he has been another big winner in this additiin

    • Prindlehaven May 29, 2014 10:11 pm #

      I agree with Vendra’s interpretation. The ref card shows div under CSM but the FAQ doesn’t mention an addition of div, as has been stated. It seems to me that the card was referring to the possibility of access to div through the balestar. As a CSM player I had already given this some thought and had reached this conclusion on my own.

  6. Hotsauceman1 May 29, 2014 11:01 am #

    What do youo think about WS space marine lists? good or not?
    Im glad I chose IG as my new army. And orders are not that bed, because you cant stack them.
    Also. I think tau are still gonna be good, but triptide isnt as good because there isnt ways to TL them anymore. 2 riptides I think is going to be the thing from now on

  7. AbusePuppy May 29, 2014 11:02 am #

    I will point out that, despite Divination being on the psychic cheat sheet, most CSM characters do not have it listed on their available Disciplines, so won’t be able ot roll on it.

    • TheWarRoom May 29, 2014 11:21 am #

      It appears to be purely for indication that a specific relic on a specific supplement allows them to take it. Why the felt the need to indicate it on the card is beyond me. Same goes for Space Marines.

      • Thomas May 29, 2014 11:28 am #

        CSM got three routes to divination – Balestar of Mannon, Huron and Scrolls of Magnus.

    • Reecius May 29, 2014 1:09 pm #

      Huh, if true, that is very confusing.

      • Thomas May 29, 2014 1:41 pm #

        The faq is super clear on this – csm psykers get disciplines listed in their entry an daemonology.

        • Reecius May 29, 2014 1:49 pm #

          That is clear, true, but the psychic cards indicate otherwise. It would seem strange to show what they could get with wargear but not explain that, don’t you think? For example, AM are listed with all powers but the FAQ only mentions Malefic.

          • nkump May 29, 2014 1:56 pm

            Yeah…very confusing! Like I said above, every DA librarian in the codex has access to Divination in their listing, but the card has a big ole red ‘X’ on the reference card.

          • Adam May 29, 2014 2:22 pm

            Really, it’s just a reference card, so I think it’s just telling you what cards you can throw away, haha. Playing ____? Well you’ll never need ____.

          • DWH May 30, 2014 6:48 pm

            It’s the same way Eldar are mentioned for Force but only Eldrad has a force weapon. if there is any way to attain a psychic power in any of the books related to that faction it’s checked. The FAQ’s provide more clarity in that you get whatever is listed in your specific unit rules plus whatever the FAQ says.

  8. Steven May 29, 2014 11:04 am #

    Speaking of CSM, you should have mentioned Ahriman.

    What a huge buff to shoot the same power three times (and by the way, shoot his ap3 bold pistol right after).

    Imagine 3 doombolts (which no longer lose strength as it goes through models), or 3 psychic shrieks, or 3 sunbursts (against hoard armies). He literally can take out any target in one phase (riptide, wraithknight, terminators, hoard units). His only downside is his slow speed, but he has to have some kind of weakness considering all that firepower he throws at you!

    • mercutioh May 29, 2014 11:56 am #

      Ahriman will only be good with uncapped warp dice. If Warp Dice are capped any strategy that is reliant on Warp dice will be negated as every army in the game is able to get up to 12 warp dice rather easily with come the Apocalypse allies(or better) and Insert decent Psychic army here.

      Add in the fact that there’s still 4+ deny the witch for any imperial army that wants it against witchfires and he’s not that impressive anymore. and I want him to be!!!

      Eldar are going to continue to dominate the scene with AM being a close second.

  9. Alex May 29, 2014 11:08 am #

    Interesting read, thanks. I don’t see what got buffed about Barrage? It could always fire indirectly at units it couldn’t see. It no longer has Pinning though.

    • Thomas May 29, 2014 12:31 pm #

      It shots through all floor of a ruin. Anything under the blast is hit. Same goes for templates.

      • Reecius May 29, 2014 1:10 pm #

        Yeah, you can’t hide form it under an overhang now, which is a bit rough.

  10. iNcontroL May 29, 2014 11:22 am #

    nice read! Interested to see how Tyranids do in 7th as well.. flyers got a lot harder to ground but less vector striking/no charge >_< Will have to see what the optimal Nid list will be!

    • Chip May 29, 2014 12:50 pm #

      Flying gun boats got better, and that’s what Nid’s excel at IMO. They were never designed to land and charge, although having that available obviously provided a tactical option.

      • Reecius May 29, 2014 1:10 pm #

        Exactly. Flyrant=better, Crone=worse.

        I think ground pounding Nidzilla will be the way to roll.

        • Tetrisphreak May 29, 2014 1:23 pm #

          That drool cannon does some serious damage against GEQ and worse saves. The haywire missiles can help out in a pinch too.

          • Reecius May 29, 2014 2:39 pm

            Yeah, true, those are still awesome. My Scouts fear that damn flamer template!

            But in general terms, I think the Crone got worse as its Vector Strike was it’s main weapon, and assaulting was one of it’s better qualities, too. YMMV

  11. mercutioh May 29, 2014 11:29 am #

    daemons will either be at the top(uncapped warp dice) or at the bottom(capped warp dice) with the nerf to smash and fmcs not reliably being able to gwt of psychic powers off reliably.daemons entirely. no transports. non mobile troops. no shooting ability. I get why you’re doing it but it pretty much dictates the fate of an entire faction for an entire edition. I really wish the competitive tourney scene was able to play ONE gt with rules as written before making a call.

    But its not my money on the line, so my opinion means as much as a daemonic armor save. Best of luck with it Amigo.

    Im hoping they dont make orks too scary to play aganst so they get banhammered to. irrelevance too.

    • Reecius May 29, 2014 1:11 pm #

      I don’t think it’s all that bad. There are a ton of Daemon builds that don’t need FMCs to win.

      • mercutioh May 29, 2014 2:05 pm #

        first off. I broke the cardinal rule and posted from my phone. Mea Culpa for typo haven.

        Secondly, Daemon builds that will be successful in 7th.
        Screamerstar relies on grimoire and psychic powers.
        Capped psychic powers means Daemons aren’t better at it than anyone else is. and the imperium denies the witch like a champ.

        Running large packs of hounds may work, but if you don’t get invisibility off… they’re dead.

        Daemons need Psychic powers to keep their troops alive. They need them to shoot.

        Have you guys just considered removing horrors from the summoning list?

        It hampers the Daemon summoning engine considerably. Lighter touches = better games.

        I mean you’re not nerfing Eldar for moving better. Or nerfing Tau for shooting better. Or IG for having more tanks. the Psychic phase is what makes Chaos better. Hell it basically validates Crimson slaughter as a codex(daemon sorcerors anyone?)

        A wise man once said that “Comp just creates other power builds than the meta that you’re trying to get away from” or something like that. In a raspy voice.

      • Vendra May 29, 2014 5:16 pm #

        I would save give it one shot, rules as written at a tournament and just see what happens. Its to early to be swinging the ban hammer when we have not seen the top tier players playing the rules as written yet. For all we know, someone may find a way to make sisters the top tier army. Lets just wait and see.

  12. Xzandrate May 29, 2014 11:30 am #

    I’m not sure if it’s been fully digested yet, but the armies with Swarms are going to be loving life. They lost stealth, but they can also claim objectives, and armies like Chaos Demons and Tyranids also get to add OS to nurglings and rippers.

    Both armies bring a number of MC/FMCs, now add in having to waste an equal number of shots on swarms, if you can get LoS on them.

    I’m looking forward to trying it out.

    • Reecius May 29, 2014 1:11 pm #

      Yeah, Scarab Farm will be nasty again, especially with Vehicles likely coming back.

    • AbusePuppy May 29, 2014 5:36 pm #

      I’m not sure about- Wave Serpents in particular and Ignore Cover in general do massive damage to swarms and unless the meta shifts significantly back towards mech, people are still gonna keep bringing anti-infantry tools (templates, blasts, high RoF guns) that give them a very bad day.

      To whit, three Wave Serpents rolling average against swarms in 4+ cover will kill fourteen bases in a single shooting phase. I think they’re gonna be hard-pressed to survive that kind of barrage.

      (That’s not to say swarms won’t be useful in the new edition, as being able to score made them massively more useful, but I don’t think a strategy based around them is going to be strong.)

      • Xzandrate May 30, 2014 4:13 am #

        It’s all about the trade offs though.

        Swarms require you to waste a lot of shots, or a lot of high strength shots to instant kill them.

        And that is only IF you can see them and IF you remember they are there. They are small profile models, and it is quite easy to get them completely out of LoS in a normal ruin.

  13. Smurfalypse May 29, 2014 11:37 am #

    Unfortunately CSM do not have access to Divination, it is only on the card because we can get it through Huron and the Scroll. Outside of that CSM have no access in the core book, Crimson Slaughter have a single guy who can get it with the Mannon.

    • Reecius May 29, 2014 1:12 pm #

      A lot of folks are saying that, and if so, that is a really confusing way to present that data as the psychic cards clearly show they do have it now. Weird.

  14. CNitram May 29, 2014 11:42 am #

    New FAQ for Space Wolves and Psychic Powers (29th) posted on BL

    • CNitram May 29, 2014 11:45 am #

      Just a single addition for Runic Weapons and Sanctic Primaris…nothing that pivotal.

  15. Jason Brown May 29, 2014 11:46 am #

    I am starting to play a E/DE list with the duke so I can deepstrike my venoms and raiders. With the new OS rule I think its going to be a ton of fun. For the Guardian Cup I am running an abbreviated form of this, albeit its a 6th ed tourney.

    I have to agree, with the proper massaging, this can be a very solid edition. Once we get the cards and summoning into place, the varitey on the table is going to be solid.

    And yes barrage is OP right now, it was in 6th and now in 7th it rediculous. So much so that my priority target are those damn wyverns or what have you. Might have to start throwing some d cannon batteries out there and take advantage.

  16. qlr May 29, 2014 11:46 am #

    Eldar/Demons/Necron/AM seems to be the strongest four IMO.

    Now Reece could you please make us a battle report with som GK(maybe purifiers spam) against something other competitive. Maybe Jim is up for it ! 🙂

    • Reecius May 29, 2014 1:13 pm #

      We actually don’t have GK here, no one in the shop plays them. Jim does though, we’ll see if he can come out and play a game.

  17. Kaughnor May 29, 2014 11:48 am #

    I believe MSU is king this edition and armies built with this in mind will rule the tournament scene. The new psychic powers be damned. I don’t care if demons summon a 1000 points a turn. My ten DAVU wave serpents will shoot down 1200 points a turn. How will an invisible deathstar deal with 100 drop podding marines? Not very well I suspect. The game changer that truly marks this as 7th edition and not 6.5 is the introduction of detachments. Bring on your death star roided up with psychic powers. It simply cannot deal enough damage in a game limited by 5-7 turns. Once the dust settles I think this is going to be one heck of a rule set.

  18. hambilton May 29, 2014 12:00 pm #

    I kind of thought hell turkey nerf was to balance out summoning. For a force that is already semi weak, having 500+ points worth of guys a turn might actually make them even. 😉

    In _THEORY, grey knights should be good. I have seen a number of battle reports in which they get totally owned over and over again. Having said that, GK being able to muster insanely large warp pool combined with reroll deny the witch from dreadnaughts (Reinforced Aegis) is going to make them dominate in that area pretty good. Also not having perils to buff their troops (sanctic) and being able to use buffed up termies as troops looks fun!

  19. No_wegian May 29, 2014 12:15 pm #

    Tau Velocity Tracker got hit hard. The new Skyfire rule says if you choose Skyfire you have to stick with it and shooting at ground targets requires Snapshots. This is unless you have a rule that indicates you can switch back and forth; i.e. Flyers and FMC. IIRC, there is no rule for Velocity Tracker that says it can switch.

    • mrmattywoodz May 29, 2014 1:20 pm #

      Velocity Trackers let you pick every time you make a shooting attack with that model whether or not it has skyfire. Velocity trackers still work exactly the same.

    • Reecius May 29, 2014 1:21 pm #

      Velocity Tracker says they may choose every turn.

  20. Adam May 29, 2014 12:26 pm #

    What you said about Eldar Jetbikes is what I love about Tactical Objectives. If you house rule that you simply discard and re-draw cards which would be impossible to score through the course of the game, it actually works out nicely.

    Instead of the game becoming who can grab the most objectives on turn 5, you actually end up having turns 1-4 mean something! Importantly, when you face a 2++ star, it’s not about them just living until the last turn and scoring everything, but instead they need to focus on what to do the rest of the time, which they’re not nearly as effective at (can’t be everywhere at once).

    I think the mission cards are a huge breath of fresh air and I really do hope to see them integrated into a tournament setting (because really, aren’t we all tired of last turn objective grabs?).

    • fluger May 29, 2014 12:28 pm #

      Yeah, totally agree on this as well. Though it really puts an emphasis on mobility that some armies might not be capable of. But that’s an OK meta shift IMO.

    • Adam May 29, 2014 12:29 pm #

      Also, what you said about Chaos and Divination isn’t exactly true. The reference card that comes in the box really is just saying what Disciplines are possible to take with each faction, they didn’t actually Errata in the Discipline for Chaos Marines to take those powers with any sorcerer, just errata’d in that they can also take Daemonology. Still the only way for them to generate Divination is through the Crimson Laughter.

    • Reecius May 29, 2014 1:15 pm #

      Eldar Jetbikes are actually amazing at Tactical Objectives, too. They give you the chance to strike out at far flung objectives, particularly those that are out of LoS. I honestly don’t think they lose anything in Maelstrom Missions.

      • Adam May 29, 2014 2:28 pm #

        But fortunately the game doesn’t revolve around last turn contests anymore. If the jetbikes need to be moving around the board grabbing objectives, they’re far more likely to be killed, instead of hiding until turn 5.

        • AbusePuppy May 29, 2014 5:37 pm #

          That’s true, but at that point the Eldar player is A, ahead on VP (presumably, since he can pick up objectives much more easily than the other player) and B, not losing any real firepower because you’re shooting at Jetbikes instead.

    • Baz May 30, 2014 12:31 am #

      Another possible fix to cards might be to allow players to only draw 1 card, no matter how many they’ve used. That way an initial good draw doesn’t give you access to even more cards, while a person who hasn’t been able to play them is restricted to the one he can gain by discarding a card.

  21. fluger May 29, 2014 12:27 pm #

    Couple meta changers that I thought of as well.

    The change to skyfire means that aegis lines won’t be as prevalent. I’m already looking at dropping mine. Now armies with access to flakk missiles are going to be considering those even more. I know I’m considering changing all my lascannons to missile launchers with flakk missiles. Makes things like Hydras and Hunter/Stalkers more palatable as well since there isn’t a go-to replacement in fortifications.

    The change to the psychic phase means that including a single divination caster for cheap prescience isn’t really an option. I’ve been running a prescience inquisitor or DA librarian for all of 7th with my Guard (screw you, new AM rubbish name!) and now I don’t think there’s a reason or place for him. We’ll see, but my gut tells me that he won’t be reliable enough to count on for prescience, which means I have to plan on using just BS3 for my shooting (also, note that IG doesn’t have a twin-linking order anymore. Bring it Down gives the unit tank hunters or monster hunters, so outside of prescience, we’re stuck with BS3).

    High strength ramming is pretty funny as well. Leman Russes auto-hit with S10! That’s funny stuff! I’m interested to see how reinforced rams work out with the new (apparently pending) Ork dex. Trukks flying around hitting things for decent strengths could be pretty interesting.

    I agree that mech is going to become a thing again. However, I think FMCs that don’t rely on melee are going to be REALLY popular and strong. Dakkaflyrants paired with Harpies are going to be pretty tough for most armies to deal with especially in conjunction with some other fast ground threats. Slaanesh DPs with lashes could also be really tough to deal with as well as Tzeentch DPs tossing out warpfire shenanigans.

    • Reecius May 29, 2014 1:18 pm #

      Ah yeah, good catch on the orders. They still get awesome orders, though, but yes, no more twin-link.

      I can’t wait to see Orks, too, that will be a good indicator of what to expect going forward.

      • fluger May 29, 2014 3:51 pm #

        As an Ork player, I can’t either.

        I really hope that the long-rumored 6+ FnP is true. That’d be boss. 😀

  22. Leth May 29, 2014 12:51 pm #

    I find myself looking for more reliable ways of getting things into my lists, even if they are not as good.

    Things like aegis with ammo dumps for my blast weapons, Inquisitors that have the BS 10 against psykers, prefered enemy bubble from AM, UM chapter tactics with calgar.

    Things of that nature that really add a lot of reliable bonuses to units that dont rely on psykers.

  23. anonymou5 May 29, 2014 1:08 pm #

    I built a Raven Guard Rhino list today that also stuffed a Chapter Master into an objective secured Land Raider (can come from BT or BA, BA is more fun because at 2k you can attach the Chapter Master to Mephiston which is hilarious).

    I have to disagree about vehicles and aesthetics though. I’m an armor officer by trade, and that many tanks jammed into such a small area is a major problem for me. It’s incredibly tactically unsound and hurts my brain. 28mm doesn’t work with vehicles and aircraft, it’s a scale that is best with infantry bodies.

    • Reecius May 29, 2014 1:14 pm #

      Yeah, not realistic at all, lol, but fun!

      A guy using a chainsaw as a sword on a battlefield with orbital lasers doesn’t make any sense, either =P

      • Fagerlund May 29, 2014 1:29 pm #

        Oh common man, it makes all kinds of sense! 😛

        • Reecius May 29, 2014 2:42 pm #

          It’s awesome! That’s all the reason I need =P

      • anonymou5 May 29, 2014 1:49 pm #

        lol. Point.

        That said, chainswords are internally consistent with the universe. 20 tanks in a football field are not. Not saying you’re wrong for liking how it looks; aesthetics are by definition subjective…I’m just not a fan. Of all my issues with 7ed, “tiny armor formations” is pretty low on the list. Just prefer infantry heavy editions aesthetically and it’s the fault of my profession.

        • Reecius May 29, 2014 3:10 pm #

          No, I totally get you. And the Tanks are on a different scale, too. A Leman Russ should be the size of a Baneblade. A rhino holds 10 Marines? Lol, sure.

  24. Adam May 29, 2014 1:26 pm #

    So Dark Angels…

    Objective Secured Venerable Land Raiders? Why not?!

    Objective Secured Outflanking, Hit & Run Bikes? hell yes!

    Objective Secured Land Speeders? Just for fun!

    The downside: The rules don’t allow any sort of aura affect to work from within a transport. Before it worked because rules specifically allowed you to measure such abilities from the hull, that is no longer included anywhere. If you can’t measure within 12″ to use a 12″ aura ability, then you can’t use it.

    • Adam May 29, 2014 3:08 pm #

      Actually, scratch that last part… “If the players need to measure a range involving the embarked unit (except for its shooting), ​
this range is measured to or from the vehicle’s hull.”

      Finally found the damn rule

      • Chuck May 29, 2014 5:20 pm #

        That also means that if you put an Objective Secured troop unit inside of a non-dedicated transport, that transport essentially becomes Objective Secured as well. Since whenever the vehicle is within 3″ of an objective, the unit inside will also be within 3″, and so will be putting their OS touch on that objective.

  25. Fagerlund May 29, 2014 1:56 pm #

    Here’s something I wrote a week ago elsewhere on the internet… you can probably cross-check with InControl since you have him handy and see if he’s memory is the same. 🙂

    Thing is, I’m an old StarCraft player – been playing it for years. And then when StarCraft 2 came out and was all new and shiny people would come up with builds that completely crushed all opposition – because people simple didn’t know what they were doing. Now, Blizzard is a company who are concerned with balance, so when people started crying “nerf!” they would listen. It usually took them a month or so before implementing any changes… and in this time the players would usually come up with a new counter-build to this “overpowered” build people were crying about. So when the patch hit, nerfing stuff people cried about weeks earlier… the affected faction got hit double hard since everyone all ready knew how to counter their builds even before the nerf. Basically showing they acted to soon – as it was obviously experience that was lacking, not balance for the most part.

    So I’ve been saying here before that it’s good that TO’s take responsibility for a more competitive game… but I’d also like to see you guys give it more time. Weeks probably. Like you say, you’ve played 12 games. That’s nothing really. Play 100 games and you will have a much more solid grasp of what works and what doesn’t. And with your pace of things that’s not such a long time frame even. If every TO does this, you’ll get a game pool of 1000 games full of experience in no time – which is way better than theorycrafting for making decisions of alterations.

    Summoning does look powerful… but from what I’ve seen it has been against armies who had no idea how to deal with it either. No one has had any time to adapt yet. It’s a new game, and old editions only count for as much really.

    • mercutioh May 29, 2014 2:25 pm #

      Amen Brother! PREACH!

  26. Jural May 29, 2014 2:34 pm #

    CSM took a few hits, but I look at these things as positives:

    1) The defiler got a nice boost- harder to kill and can grab objectives, Is the battle cannon barrage though?

    2) Spell familiar helps you get off more spells, an umarked sorcerer lord can now load up on one discipline and get the primaris for free… Biomancy or Telepathy for the win?

    3) Deepstriking termis and Oblits can now become objective claimers late in the game.

    4) Chaos bikes getting to claim objectives (and running with a Slaanesh lord on a seeker for Outflank with acute senses

    5) Mutilators, Possessed, Thousand sons all got much better… oh wait, not really.

    • Adam May 29, 2014 3:15 pm #

      The battle cannon hasn’t been Barrage for a couple years unfortunately.

      If you take a marked sorc, you get the spell you roll on the god and it’s primaris power for free now, so marked isn’t all that bad.

      Thousand Sons got slightly better because now their sorc will get 2 powers to pick from.

      • AbusePuppy May 29, 2014 11:58 pm #

        Was the Defiler cannon ever barrage? That would’ve had to have been the 3.5e book at the very latest.

        • Jural May 30, 2014 12:58 pm #

          In my dreams it is 😉

  27. mercutioh May 29, 2014 3:01 pm #

    Possessed got better in the right list.

    Cursed earth makes them pretty nasty. Especially if they are of Tzeentch. Battle cannon is ordinance not barrage.

    K sons are a LOT better if dice are uncapped. Psychic Troops are gold in 7th. Overwatch or no.

  28. kaughnor May 29, 2014 4:59 pm #

    With multiple detachments in mind some strong 2k army lists that I can think of: at first blush, are the following:


    2 Autarchs
    10 DAVU Serpents with scatterlasers
    (10 points to spare)

    2 Spirit Seers
    12 Guardian Defenders – Bright Lance
    6 x 3 Weapons of Vhaal – Shadow Weavers

    5 Tervigons – crushing claws
    9 x 1 Zoanthropes
    1 x 2 Zoanthropes
    10 x 10 Termagaunts


    2 Librarians
    11 x 5 Marines – Drop Pods, Melta Guns
    6 Thunderfire guns
    (5 points to spare)

    Just random raw lists but I believe this is the style of armies that we will be seeing across the table in 7th. 6th edition deathstar’s, I don’t believe, can deal with this new paradigm. Where you have to be mobile and classified as objective secured, to score throughout the game.

    In addition, I’m thinking that point levels are going to need to be decreased. So that games with so many models will be manageable.

  29. Tarrasq May 29, 2014 7:15 pm #

    As far as capping WC dice I’m thinking the D6 result + ML per psyker is best. You can still take a crap ton of psykers but the most you could ever throw at a test is 7 for ML1 and 10 for ML4. If you roll that d6 poorly however it makes those WC3 powers hard to cast.

    D6 result + ML per psyker cap

    -Shifts focus to better quality psykers
    -Doesn’t totally gimp multiple psykers
    -Powers wax and wane according to the D6 warp charge roll.

    • hambilton May 30, 2014 9:30 am #

      Limiting WC dice is going to be hard to do. In particular armies that have a minimum WC COST per turn (force weapon heavy armies) will effectively have far fewer points than other less psychic armies. I think about combat squad grey knights that are troop heavy end up spending 10+ points just to activate all their force weapons.

  30. Ouroboros May 29, 2014 11:55 pm #

    Reece; you are mistaken about maximum efficiency for summoning; the most efficient way is to use 7 dice for each summoning, giving a roughly 77% chance for each summoning to go off (11% per dice), rather than 5 dice, giving a 50% chance for each summoning to go off (10% per dice).

    This assumes you don’t care about chance of Perils, of course, so there are some decent arguments for going for 5 or 6 dice instead of 7, but in pure terms of success-per-dice, it’s 7 dice where efficiency peaks.

  31. matthew May 30, 2014 12:24 am #

    I kinda have an idea that might fix the way the psychic phase works this may be terrible and quite different but I see it as fixing a few problems.
    You roll a d6 and thats the number of warp charges you get that turn plus your one psyker or brotherhood with the highest level still alive so max warp dice you get is 10 however….. the mastery level of the casting psyker is a modifier to the 4+ for every level over 1 its reduce the 4+ by 1, if you roll 1’s it always fails and causes perils. This way it means the max powers an army can use is ten warpcharge 1’s and the 3 warp charge powers will require three of those dice from your pool…. it means summonings cant be spammed but also allows everyone to still use psy powers but in a controlled fashion with some variation. Deny the witch would be the same as now. I know that this completely different to current rules but honestly I see it as the most balanced format for competition.

    • matthew May 30, 2014 12:38 am #

      Or possibly the mastery level allows you a reroll of your casting dice equal to levels above 1… so for example a lv3 psyker wants to cast a level 3 warp charge power…. rolls 4 dice at it scoring 2, 4+s but uses the two additional mastery levels he has to reroll the two failed charges and is successful in getting 3 warp charges. This could work the same with deny the witch but that may be too far

  32. Bodazoka May 30, 2014 1:01 am #

    I understand that armies who bring 5-6-7 psychic dice to the table are going to be shut down in that phase by some lists with 30+ but I don’t think that is something which should be punished. If I want to make a list that deliberately tries to shut down your ability to cast spells and makes sure I get all of mine off why should I be punished for it?. And why does that inherently make my list OP?

    If my list is OP because of Daemon summoning I think that spell is what needs to be addressed.

  33. Derrick May 30, 2014 5:10 am #

    While I play daemons, the games I have played so far have been tight. I do NOT maximize psychic WC dice. I stay moderate, as if the game isn’t cool for my opponent, I wont have many waiting in line to play. That said, I have gone back to a hoard style list with a whole bunch of fast moving daemons scurrying across the field. Sumoning daemonettes and hounds to run after being summoned to secure objectives is sweet. Alas, plaguebearers are slow.. sad.
    With the boost to vehicles and such, along with the minor changes to assault, I am anxiously awaiting the new Ork Codex. I am looking forward to a rush of trukks, wagons and orkiness speeding across the battlefield grabbing objectives for a turn and then speeding off to the next one.

  34. anvilward88 May 30, 2014 6:15 am #

    I have a feeling that Salamanders space marines are going to turn some heads again, due to both rules changes and anticipating how the meta is going to be. From what I’ve gathered, vehicles (especially transports) and hordes are a bit more desirable due to everything scoring. Hordes can be hard to move off of objectives when done right, and vehicles, though they can still be wrecked through mass fire, still provide impassible terrain for the troops behind it holding the objective, and if not destroyed, provide scoring as well. Salamanders can handle both very well while also playing to the strengths of also scoring transports (drop pods and rhinos) and lots of infantry (i’m guessing lots of tacticals and sternguard). Another thing to consider are drop podding in Librarians with Pyromancy. Beams got a buff (no longer have the strength of the attack reduced per model it goes through), and a lot of their spells got a range boost, and you can fire off more than one while still shooting a plasma pistol or combi-weapon, which is especially nice considering a normal ML 1 libby is no longer restricted to 1 power per turn and they’re cheap and provide a command squad to acco. Pyromancy also has the benefit of most of their spells not rolling to hit, but scatter instead, and DtW not being as strong as it once was against witchfire powers. Worse case scenario, you have a libby with a hood to throw off their blessings a bit (remember, the libby is there to deny powers for at LEAST 1 turn since their shooting and assaulting are after the psychic phase). I’m spit balling here, but it’s something to consider, and I might have hit at least 1 good idea here.

    • anvilward88 May 30, 2014 6:18 am #

      *provide a command squad to accompany them and bringing in weapons to counter something (like meltas to shoot tanks while libby wipes up infantry around them).

  35. Elios Harg May 30, 2014 8:28 am #

    I disagree about daemon summoning being OP. It will be strong in the same manner as tervigons, but in a timed tournament setting you’re going to be pumping out daemons and eating up time causing games to end on turn 2 and you’ll lose because you’re not doing enough to hurt the enemy in time to actually win. Meanwhile, his 10 OS rhinos tank shock you off all the objectives because he knows exactly when the game will end due to time out and it’s GG

    • hambilton May 30, 2014 9:12 am #

      I agree with Elios Harg. I would like to see it played out a bit more before everyone calls summoning OP. I play GK, so I am not TOO worried about it as I will have plenty dice to deny.

  36. JuicyD June 1, 2014 7:54 am #

    With a limited budget for a few months, Grey Knights are sounding good.

  37. Blerfin June 5, 2014 1:01 pm #

    I think Tau came out ok, especially when allied with farsight enclaves. Making suits OS units means they can really harass weak backfield units (even charge into them to take the point if they’re weak enough on turn 6). Also farsight armies can bring in the talisman or arthas moloch which lets Tau buff it’s meager deny rolls. Since shooting didn’t change much I would say they didn’t really get nerfed much or at all, but I only have one riptide and he plays solo so I won’t even notice the changes to my own army asmuch. But I do agree that the changes to barrage and loopholes in the psychic phase did really strengthen some other armies which may have pushed Tau down a bit.

  38. Shas'Vince October 8, 2014 7:16 am #

    As the one who invented the commander-riptide combo (and yes, I am very proud of it) I have to admit: I was stupid. I finally am very happy to see it end.

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