After the results of the LVO 40K Championships Exit Poll which showed a very slim margin in favor of Lords of War in tournament play, Frankie and Reece take another look at these controversial units in a test game. Reecius with his Tartarus 151st IG with a Baneblade vs. Frankie’s tournament winning Deldar Alliance. Check out the Tactics Corner for more videos!
NOTE: We got the rule about Lances vs. Super Heavies wrong, lances DO work on Super Heavies, only permanent AV reductions do not work (like Scarabs) sorry for the confusion.
People must be really sick of Death Stars (Especially the invincible ones…) to endorse Lords of War.
Did you detail what the restrictions would be on the Lords of War in the exit poll?
It’s not about being sick of deathstars. The rules are simply more balanced than the close-minded Internet is willing to explore. If everything GW has published is used, we don’t run into long-standing problem units. They are a problem for a moment only, as there are enough publications with units that can answer any problem.
Heaven forbid that 2++ re-rolls have a counter written into the game! Why would we use those counters when we can just complain instead. 🙂
I prefer complaining, personally =P
But seriously, D weapons are not fun at all to play with in my experience, they suck big, hairy balls, IMO.
I’m pretty sure every time you say “D weapons” you keep meaning to say Revenants and Warhounds. 😛
And the D Helstrom Templates, those are preposterous!
Exactly – your just swapping one boogie man for another – your swapping an immovable object (deathstar) for an unstoppable force (revenant).
Well said.
@The Voice – Except that unlike the 2++ re-rolls, super heavies are generally have hard counters (most suck at AA and even the Revenant dies on average to 14 meltagun shots). In this battle report that baneblade should have been blown to pieces, except that they forgot that lances affect super heavies.
Also I was under the impression that lance type weapons follow their normal rules against superheavies. It’s just things that permanently lower armor value (Scarabs etc.) that don’t work.
Nice catch. That is why I am known for having the reading skills of a 5 year old. Thank you for pointing that out.
lol
Ah, yes, we missed that, thanks. That would have made a big difference. But, Frankie still won.
Is it possible to just ban the D? Or you’ve already “House Ruled” the 2+ reroll, make the D s10 ap1 or something. Still brutal
I think it could work well if you tied the Nerf to the D into the proposed “Ignores Cover” Nerf.
So: “Ignores Cover” reduces any cover save taken against this weapon by 2 (2+ becomes 4+ etc.)
Strength D: Strength 10 AP 1. “Ignores Cover” “Apocalyptic Devastation”
Apocalyptic Devastation: Any Invulnerable Save taken against this weapon is reduced by 2 (2+ becomes 4+ etc.)
I don’t think banning D is the right move, but I think it might be a good move to restrict Destroyer weapons to one-per-model, so you couldn’t have a C’tan with two Destroyers each turn, no Pulsar Revenants, no double-laser toting warhounds. At the same time, that wouldn’t unnecessarily nerf the Lord of Skulls or the Stompa, who, without Destroyer Weapons, would just get obliterated in combat with MC’s.
My Buddie made a good point on changing stat lines. We are going to do that @ our tournament earlier this year but he said, “you can’t change the stats without changing the points, the reason you pay the points is for the stats”. Just though I’d throw that out there.
Yeah, a lot of folks have said the same thing.
My response to that argument when it comes to the D is that the Superheavies with the ranged D weapons don’t seem to actually be paying for them.
The price difference between those packing the ranged D and those without doesn’t nearly equate to the difference in Killyness.
True, but, the Knight will be fast and will decimate any vehicle it touches. Fast MCs may still bring it down before it swings, though. Honestly, we just need to try it out more.
Which goes back to my idea of no more than 1 Destroyer weapon per super heavy. It doesn’t change their effectiveness for their cost, and no super heavy in the game is REQUIRED to take more than 1 Destroyer weapon.
You can still have Revenants (with sonic lances), still have Warhounds, Lords of Skulls, Stompas, Shadow Swords, etc. It just keeps the people who can’t handle the double-D more quiet.
I don’t know if Sonic Lances would be much better, lol!
a quick thing, lance weapons do work on lord of war, it’s only things that permanently lower armour that don’t work. like entropic strike.
So Dark elder lances wreck av14 Lords of war!!!:)
it was never going to be the nicest fight anyway:P Ig aint that nice vs DE at the best of times:P
but hey, he still won:)
golly gosh ninja’d so bad:P
We’ll chalk it up to the jet lag 🙂
So the barrage weapon on the basalisk ignores Shrouding? I have never seen it played that way. I always thought that unless a weapon has the rule “Ignores Cover”, something would still get a cover save if they had Stealth/Shrouded. Directional cover saves would be bypassed of course because of the barrage rule.
Thoughts?
Only for Night Fight, as with these weapons the attack comes from the center of the blast, so, it won’t trigger the Night Fight rule. However, you still have to be in range to target the model (36″)
Did not know that distinction. Thanks.
NP
You determine if they are in cover or not based on the center hole on the blast marker. That doesnt change the origin of the attack being 36″ or so away. So they still get shrouded, and then if they are in cover they get the bonus of that shrouded on top of that.
That is not how we have played it here. Pg. 34: Always assume the shot is coming from the center of the blast.
That is why we have always interpreted it as ignoring the Night Fight cover bonuses.
While cover is determined from the center of the blast, Shroud and Stealth from Night-fight is determined from where it is fired, not where the unit would be getting cover. So, for example, if the barrage was fired from the basilisk 25″ away, the target may not be getting cover from intervening terrain, but it will be getting Shroud from Night-fight.
In that same regard, if the model was in area terrain, would barrage ignore that as well? This case of course is different because as Jay pointed out, the WK was searchlighted which negated the Shrouding from Night Fighting.
If the model was in area terrain, then it would get cover + shrouding from a barrage weapon fired 24-36″ due to NF.
If the model wasn’t in area terrain (and there was no terrain between the model and the center of the barrage blast), then the model would only get shrouding due to the origin of the shot.
Thats how I’ve always played it. For the record, you judged that against me at LVO saying that they do suffer from Night Fight shrouding lol. I didn’t protest like a good trooper 🙂
No, he ignored shrouding because the unit (wraithknight) was searchlighted. A unit that is searchlighted do not get any of the benefits of Night-fight.
I really Appreciate all your content! Noob question but how can IG take Coteaz?
Inquisition Allies. Such a silly dex! Haha, you can take JUST Coteaz.
Im a fan of allies and some data slates (wolves can take flyers!) But that is just silly. It makes zero sense for Coteaz to be chilling with some ig smoking some stogies with the Commisar.
Random question, did you allow data slates at the LVO? Like the formentioned space marine flyers one?
Escalation is nothing to really fear. I’ve only played in three Escalation games and I’ve won two of those without using Escalation myself. I’ll be participating in Alamo GT this May where you have the option to use and play against Escalation. The only stipulation is that you can’t exceed 600 points and it’s only for the first round of the tournament. Great Bat Rep!
That’s interesting, only the first round? Hmm.
I’ll be going toe to toe with Escalation armies using my Daemons without Lords of War modles myself. When up register for AGT you can check a box if you want to use and play Escalation.
If you don’t check the box you don’t play against Escalation.
LIKE MY TWITTER? You guys… nicely done though Frankie. I’m proud. Gave Reece a LoW and pretended you can’t hurt but still won anyways. And to think.. people thought we treated old men bad at FLG <3 🙂
Haha, fuck you and you tweeter! lol
Be nice to tweeter Reece.
Frankie deployed like a TSHFT champion.
He needs to be careful about grouping up his venoms vs the big blasts(R’Varna vs Israel and this game). Am I wrong?
Would he have shot at the Baneblade if he could vs A12?
Great Game.
Thank you guys for play testing and polling. No billboards for this game? HAHAHAHhahah…never mind that wasn’t funny.
Great game though I have a few comments.
-I think this has already been said above, but lances work against all super heavies as well as haywire.
-The autocannon on the baneblade…you said you fired that at a different target. I don’t know if the new rules are different but in the past it was coaxial with the baneblade cannon meaning it had to shoot at the same target as the cannon.
I play DE and while the baneblade is a seemingly bad matchup we have wyches…wyches can take haywire grenades and they chew through any vehicle. Just thoughts for Frankie if he wants to change his list to fight LoW. I’ve faced the baneblade many times with my DE and I generally blow it up with haywire with no problem. Approach it, chuck a grenade in the shooting phase then assault it…bam dead. I totally disagree that its a really bad match-up…just need to have a better TAC list…or remember that lances work on superheavies!
The DE list wasn’t designed for LoW play so I think its hard to say its unfair when you aren’t designing with that stuff in mind. Now taking into account D weapons is a different story and I think we can all agree that those are OP and what not.
Just my 2cents!
Thanks guys!
ligs
I played against a Thunder Hawk with D weapon upgrade in my last game. What we discovered is tiered Buildings is an answer to D weapons cause he could only kill one floor at a time. I ran orks and had a 9 man loota squad with 1 guy on the 3rd floor 3 on the second and 5 on the first but he missed and then dakkaed the Big Bird almost killing it with some lucky rolling. It seems the hate against Lords of War is classic Chick Little internet syndrome. If your Opponent wants to spend 1/3 of his points on one unit i say let them and then out general them for the win as most missions are about taking objectives and if you spent all those points you dont have the ability to win . Then again I run horde Orks and I am not buying a stompa. I have changed my army composition for escalation in that I run more mid size squads of boyz (20 as opossed to 30) and a Big Mek with KFF. One change I am considering is running 2 squads of 6 Nob bikers as opposed to 1 huge squad to minimize the impact of D-weapons. So even if they kill one the other will kill their Lord of war while the rest of army takes objectives while that’s the plan anyway. WAAAAAgGGh
You can play around them with the right tools, but not every table or deployment zone will have multi-leveled buildings, you know? And I honestly do not think D Weapons are Chicken Little this time, honestly. They are stupid powerful and can win the game on turn 1.
In hopes of a academic discusion of D-weapons. It fires 1 shot that requires a to hit roll ( 66% of the time with bs 4) and then most of the time it does d3+1 to squads and cooks a vehicle or building outright but they die in combat to rending and multiple st 8 attacks lack room to manuver and are on platforms that go down to concetrated shooting (pentratritng hits add up). Also you gain victory points for every 3 hull points you take off. Is the Op coming from the no save part. I am trying to understand why they feel broken in anon judgemental way.