The Mighty Morphin Harlie Star!

Hello everyone Frankie here to talk about my underpowered army list. THE HARLIE STAR!!!!

So I guess first off I should go over what is in the list. We’ve got big dog Fuegan, almighty Eldrad, and dainty Vect as a good core. Next would be my support units, three squads of two War walkers with the mighty scatter lasers, a 10 man unit of Fire Dragons with a decked out exarch to shoot my quad gun and deny those cover saves, And lastly the 9 man unit of Harlequins all with kisses and a shadow seer of course. Now for the back bone of my army 3 units of three jet bikes for quick objective grabbers, and two 10 man Dark Eldar warrior units with splinter cannons.

In case you haven’t noticed the army is based around the 700-800 points I spent on truly underpowered special characters haha. The characters join the Harlie unit which forms the mighty Harlie Star. The shadow seer gives the unit shrouding and stealth which means most of the time I will have a 2+ save with fortune so a 2+ re-roll. Yes it is as lame as it sounds. The unit has a one and thirty-six chance to fail a save each time you shoot at it if you believe in statistics. Next with the new close combat the way it is I end up putting all the saves on one of my two characters with a 2+ save as long as the initiative allows it so yes I am a cheese ball and most of the game will have a two up re-roll save which makes for some very upset opponents.

    The support units are there to do just what the name says support and kill or hurt some of those pesky units in the back field or weaken something before assaulting it with the “Fragile” Harlie unit. The Fire Dragons are kind of my anti air plus the quad gun is great for killing ground and air targets especially with tank hunter. Sometimes the Fire Dragons accompany the Harlies up the field to be another annoyance or if I’m feeling really bold sometimes I will out flank the war walker’s haha, which I actually do a lot. The Eldar support units are great and have helped me to do well in my games.

Lastly the backbone or the army my troops! The Guardian jet bike units are great for zooming around the field hiding out of line a sight while people hunt for their poor little elf souls. The jet bikes are cheap and not too bad with a 3+ save not to mention their guns are not the worst being twin linked and all. Now the units that have actually done a lot of good for my army in play testing, the 10 man Dark Eldar Warrior units. The warriors put out such massive fire power that they can bring down even the toughest foe especially with BS 4, poison, and DOOM! They are also pretty hard to kill being 10 wounds and leadership 8; so far they have been game clinchers.

Well that is the list in all of its shame/glory you be the judge. Next week I will discuss the weaknesses and tactics on how to beat the list.

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About Reecius

The fearless leader of the intrepid group of gamers gone retailers at Frontline Gaming!

75 Responses to “The Mighty Morphin Harlie Star!”

  1. Someone November 14, 2012 2:52 am #

    Just watch out for anyone ignoring coversaves.
    Noismarines with sonic blasters would bucher this unit.

    Otherwise a very neat idea!

    • Reecius
      Reecius November 14, 2012 10:45 am #

      They’re actually not as vulnerable to Noise Marines as you would think. They have a Character with a 2+ or a 2++ out front to soak up all the incoming fire. Unless the Noise marines could get around the blocking characters, which is a LOT harder than it sounds, they won’t do much of anything. Even then, the Harlies still have a 5++ with a reroll. Not at all bad.

    • Shinkaze November 14, 2012 11:37 am #

      It doesn’t matter if you kill 8 of the 9 Harlequins as long as the Shadowseer is still alive. If they don’t need the cover you can kill him too! Eldrad, Feugan and Vect will still be rerolling great saves.

      I haven’t played against this but it seems like any other over the top list. Really strong but not the alpha and omega.

      • Reecius
        Reecius November 14, 2012 1:20 pm #

        It most definitely isn’t unbeatable, but it is damn good, and really frustrating to play against at times!

  2. Killswitch November 14, 2012 3:48 am #

    The biggest problem is when this unit is left out in the open. By having to draw it out in the open they are reduced to a 4+ cover save, and are fairly slow in comparison to units like the Jetcouncil,

    Then there are flamers, they completely lay waste to this unit, especially Heavy Flamers and Flamers from Daemons.

    Helldrakes & Hellhounds also lay waste to the unit fairly comfortably, both of which has seen a vast rise in use.

    The main problem is the scoring units. 3 units of jetbikes are fairly simple for some armies to shut down, so should be concentrated early on. The Harlie star are slow so can be ignored for the first 3 turns. Also if they are simply utilising the Aegis Defence line as cover, then barrage weapons such as manticores can shoot over, again nullifying that extreme cover save.

    There are many ways to take down the unit, but it is not easy for some players whod o not know the potential of the unit.

    • Reecius
      Reecius November 14, 2012 10:47 am #

      A lot of folks say that, but honestly, it is not as easy as it sounds. I play against this army all the time, and I can tell you from experience, getting around the tank characters is no easy task, even with flamer weapons. Due to wound allocation rules, they will almost always be the closest model, and just soak up the wounds. Barrage weapons are better, for sure, but are not ultra reliable, particularly if you only have 1.

      This is without question, one of the best builds in the game right now. Very few things can stand up to it.

  3. Douglas November 14, 2012 5:10 am #

    In this build there are 5 troops, in reserve… you deploy vs demons and they have to come to you as much as you go to them. flamers can be mostly nullified. heldrakes get deployed against and also shot by quad/firedragons., there is a counter for everything

    My local wont let Vect take advantage of fortune. I did get away with running it for a month or so.

    I always hate on the warwalkers. They ARE fragile and bs3. man I hate those things.

    Keep it coming Frankie! Some of us have been following closely!

    • Reecius
      Reecius November 14, 2012 10:49 am #

      Yeah, the Frie Dargon Exarch or Fuegan on a Quad Gun will one shot, one kill damn near any flyer in the game, it’s crazy. This army does have a counter for pretty much everything, it is brutal. People who theorize ways to counter it, honestly have not played it enough. I play the damned thing all the time, haha, it is crazy.

      As for Vect, there is no Rules justification for him not being able to get the benefit of Fortune. I wish there were, but that is a house rule. The BRB specifically allows it, there really is no way around it using the rules from the books, unfortunately.

    • White925 November 14, 2012 12:57 pm #

      I am happy you liked the article and are enjoying playing with the list. The warwalkers are really good imo because they give you some long range rife power that can kill pesky units in the back field or pop vehicles relatively easily. They also draw fire away from the troops or if dont get shot end up doing some serious damage throughout the game.

  4. frank November 14, 2012 5:44 am #

    I hate to tell you this but you might want to read the Eldar codex again because if you do you’ll find you won’t have a 2+ rerollable, as you can only fortune Eldar units sorry.

    • Kralizak November 14, 2012 8:42 am #

      I hate to tell you but this but you might want to read the 40K 6th ed rulebook again because if you do you’ll find that Independent Characters that join a unit, for all intents and purposes, becomes a part of the unit (so Vect becomes an Eldar unit)

      🙂

      • frank November 14, 2012 8:57 am #

        How many times have I heard codex over rides the rulebook in my time as a 40K player ?

        • Kralizak November 14, 2012 9:31 am #

          The Eldar codex doesn’t say that it nullifies the rule about ICs. It says Eldar units, and that’s it. The rulebook says that Vect in a squad of Eldar becomes an Eldar unit. Therefore by the law of syllogism it works.

          Murphus’ reply below to the original comment works too

          • Reecius
            Reecius November 14, 2012 11:02 am
            #

            Correct.

          • frank November 15, 2012 1:05 am
            #

            If that was the case then he’d be able to go in a falcon instead of on foot ?
            I was at a tournament where a player was using this & he was ruled against it working so be warned if your thinking of using it at a tournament.

          • Reecius
            Reecius November 15, 2012 10:20 am
            #

            TO’s can rule it however they choose, of course, but at all of our events, and all of the events of the TO’s I have talked to about it, have ruled it the way we have.

            And yes, Vect could get in a Falcon with a unit of Harlies, so long as the Harlies were from the Eldar Codex.

        • Reecius
          Reecius November 14, 2012 11:01 am #

          This is true. The specific (codex) overrides the general (BRB).

          However, in this case, the BRB is feeding in to the Codex rule. Let’s use logic:

          Premise: Fortune only works on Eldar units.
          Harlies are an Eldar Unit.
          Vect Joins Harlies, and per the BRB, an IC joining a unit becomes a part of that unit for all rules purposes.
          Vect is therefore an Eldar unit.
          Fortune therefore works on Vect.

          Again, I don’t like it and I think it is un-fun, but it is the correct ruling. If you choose not to play it this way that is totally cool, but that is not the accurate way to read the rules IMO.

          • winterman November 14, 2012 11:31 am
            #

            A point on this was brought up on 40k UK podcast that I am curious how you guys play it. If Vect is now in an Eldar unit is he no longer able to get pain tokens? I’d say following the logic above, no he cannot, just curious how you guys were playing it.

            I have about 60% of the models needed to play this kind of list so I have been tempted by the dark side, but I’m always learyy of playing a list that hinges on a rule that a) could get errated away b) causes so many people to argue against it on principle.

          • Reecius
            Reecius November 14, 2012 1:20 pm
            #

            I agree. I make no effort to hide the fact I really don’t like this unit, it is seriously not that fun to play against as it is so crazy. However, it is legit, and it is really, really good. For competitive play, this is a very good choice.

            As for the issue of pain tokens, I would say he still gets them as the BRB doesn’t say that the unit stops benefiting from his own special rules, only that he does benefit from the unit’s. That is one I could see folks playing either way, though.

          • Kralizak November 15, 2012 8:07 pm
            #

            After Reece’s argument, there is the fact that Power from Pain is a special rule that Vect specifically has in his profile, and just because it is described in the Dark Eldar codex doesn’t mean that if he became solely and Eldar unit he would lose the rule. The more I learn about the controversy of the Harliestar the less I like it :\

          • Reecius
            Reecius November 16, 2012 9:17 am
            #

            Yup, the Harliestar breaks like every rule! haha, ti is really annoying.

          • J4ck_Fr0st November 20, 2012 7:05 pm
            #

            Out of curiosity, Reece, why do you continue to play against it if you dislike it? Odds of you hitting this in a tourney are 1 in a million simply because you’d get a 0 from -most- people on a sportsmanship level. There’s no real need to practice against it, it’s cheesy, and not fun for any opponent. I’m sure that Frankie’s a nice enough person, but simply tell him to play a different list or you’ll find someone else to play a game with. That’s how we stopped people in our FLGS from playing some of the stupid nonsense you see out there. In tournament prep, everything goes, but I’ve watched your frustration mount against this for months. The question is, why not just say no, I won’t play against this list, you’re abusing a poorly-written rule?

            It’s the same way with EDH (or commander), if you play MtG. For instance, there’s a two-card combo in blue that stops everyone from playing the game. You can only play one spell per turn, and the first spell per turn is countered. It’s perfectly legal, but the playgroup polices itself because everyone simply scoops their deck if that player decides to play that deck against us. He quickly stopped playing so that everyone could have a good time.

            Now don’t get me wrong, I’m a strong tournament advocate and I think this is a great tourney build, but I’d stop playing 40k before I subjected my friends to this on a daily basis. I would like to ask Frankie what kind of satisfaction he earns from trashing his friends in a beer-n-pretzels game with a harliestar, when he knows they don’t enjoy it, and if it’s really worth it.

            Also, I’d love to see what kind of damage could be put onto that unit with a first turn VoD-ing deathmark squad. That’s how I counter my buddy’s biker council and it effectively ends the game. No fortune means no unit.

      • Reecius
        Reecius November 14, 2012 10:57 am #

        Yup. I wish it weren’t true, hahaha, but it is.

    • Murphus November 14, 2012 9:09 am #

      It says you cast it on the eldar unit, which then applies to all ICs that have joined the unit. It does not specify eldar ICs, just ICs. So as long as the power is cast on an eldar unit, such as the harlies, Vect receives the benefit.

      • Reecius
        Reecius November 14, 2012 10:58 am #

        Exactly. I don’t like it, but it is accurate.

    • Reecius
      Reecius November 14, 2012 10:51 am #

      A lot of folks make this argument, but unfortunately, it’s false and every major tournament that I am aware of rules the same way. The BRB states that an IC joining a unit becomes a part of that unit for all rules purposes. Therefore, Vect joining Eldar Harlies becomes a part of the Eldar unit for all rules purposes, and benefits from Fortune. It is quite explicit, actually.

  5. Discordian November 14, 2012 6:54 am #

    If they are in terrain they will get a 2+ cover save yes. One thing of note is that eldrad can’t ignore terrian like the space clowns nor has fleet, both of which slow the unit down.

    Eldrad is not that much more useful to the unit over a much cheaper farseer (or in fact two) who do have fleet. Plus you can have one keep fortune and one take book powers like the one that lets you re-roll to hit everything. I

    I’m not a big fan of the defense gun itself, to easy to kill turn one. Also max unit of fire dragons to baby-sit it? I get using the exarch abilites but thats just seems wasteful especially if your opponet shoots out the gun and they have nothing to do till late game when they’d be able to shoot things again. You could not buy the second half of the squad and buy a waveserpent for them to start out in. It costs a little bit more, but the squad becomes harder to kill plus they get mobility if they need to book it. If they leave you can always have a jebike squad man… hover the gun…… or oddly enough have a warwalker do it.

    Since your taking Dark eldar as allies maybe think about taking a ravager or 2 raiders for your warrior squads (also splinter racks + Doom is great, just dont keep them in the raiders to long or they explode) to give you some long range heavy tank threat. It would give you some more options for early game.

    • Reecius
      Reecius November 14, 2012 10:52 am #

      The reason Eldrad is so important is because he gives you two chances at Fortune. If you fail Fortune, the unit becomes ultra vulnerable. You HAVE to have Furtune up at all times. We have tried it without Eldrad, and it just doesn’t work as well.

      Eldrad is also a good Tank character as he is tough 4 and has a 3++. Also, 2 Farseers isn’t bad, but Fuegan makes the unit. He is too good to pass up.

  6. The Overlord November 14, 2012 7:03 am #

    He is fortuning the Harlequins, which let’s him re-roll that 2+ because Vect is part of the unit. Vect cannot be the target of the power, but it does not say he doesn’t gain the benefit of the power. I think it’s a cool deathstar… I’d love to see more batreps with it Frankie.

    • Reecius
      Reecius November 14, 2012 10:53 am #

      We have a TON of bat reps with this army, check out our YouTube channel, there is a million of them! haha, it is a crazy good army. Our YouTube is: team0comp

  7. Killswitch November 14, 2012 7:18 am #

    TBH here in the UK we have used the GW FAQ stating that Eldar powers cannot be cast on DE units to also apply to IC joining Eldar units. It’s tough to say with this wording, even by RAW, whether Vect or any other DE character gains the re rollable save. RAI however, it is clear what GW is trying to do, so the balance seems to tip with RAI in this case.

    I for one, having used the unit, feel it is the right way to play. Abusing the re rollable 2++ is just plain silly and was never intended. I don’t even think its a big nerf if you have Fuegan who can still take a number of hits with his 2+ and 5+ fnp re rollabe.

    • Reecius
      Reecius November 14, 2012 10:56 am #

      I disagree on RAI in this case. What was clear with the FAQ was that you couldn’t case Eldar powers on Dark Eldar units. Extending that to apply to IC’s joining an Eldar unit becomes a house rule as the BRB quite explicitly states that IC’s joining a unit become a part of that unit for all rules purposes. That is very direct and very clear, honestly. I agree the rule is bullshit, and not fun, but it is the correct way to read the rule, IMO. If you choose not to play it that way, I find no fault in that at all, but it is a house ruling in my eyes.

  8. Puretide1 November 14, 2012 7:18 am #

    My answer woud be using tau and take away the cover save so you only be getting your 5++ save on harlies and focus my fire away from vect so no 2++ until I want you 2 😛

    • Reecius
      Reecius November 14, 2012 10:57 am #

      It isn’t that easy =) Folks always come up with over simplified solutions, but don’t forget, the unit is being led by 2 Tanking characters, one with a 2+, the other with a 2++, and getting around them is not remotely as easy as you think….trust me, I try all the time! haha

      • J4ck_Fr0st November 20, 2012 7:10 pm #

        10x Deathmarks
        1x Cryptek, Veil of Darkness

        Pray for first turn and a decent deep strike. It’s very luck-based, but honestly, I don’t see any other way to do it.

  9. David November 14, 2012 8:51 am #

    Here is how you beat this list:

    1. Buy Frankie a beer.
    2. Get another beer for Frankie.
    3. Suggest you go get another beer on a short break. While there also buy Frankie a shot.
    4. Pray for an alcohol induced mistake.

    I think that about sums it up. Don’t take this personally man. I figured it out. I have been playing this game a long time. Tactics just come naturally to me. What can I say.

    • Reecius
      Reecius November 14, 2012 10:58 am #

      This man is a genius! haha

    • White925 November 14, 2012 12:53 pm #

      Haha I like your tactics David and would like to put it to the test.

  10. Stephen November 14, 2012 10:08 am #

    As a player in the UK. We don’t all play it that Vect wouldn’t get the save. The rules are quite clear he should as GW haven’t placed any rules in force regarding multiple codex/racial units (despite bringing the cocnept in with 6th) so Vect becomes an Eldar becuase he’s not the target the ELDAR unit is…I’ve not used the unit myself but had someone challenge me on the Baron/Eldrad/Wraithguard unit in a similar fashion (on a sidenote Angron bounced off this unit when he charged me :P)

    • Reecius
      Reecius November 14, 2012 11:03 am #

      I agree with your reading of it.

      I think it is dumb and probably not what was intended, but it is quite clear.

    • Killswitch November 15, 2012 1:34 am #

      Actually the uk faq for to’s to use, made by tournament players and used in most major tournies has ruled against it but i guess like reecius said its a house rule as we have heard from gw members that they did not intend this to happen. Faq should hopefully be rectified to reflect this in the future

      • Reecius
        Reecius November 15, 2012 10:22 am #

        I think that is a good way to rule it, personally. We just go with RAW in all cases unless RAW is unclear, in which case we go with the less advantageous ruling. However in this case, it is really pretty dang clear.

        GW actually made a LOT of ways to get a 2+ reroll this edition, it’s just that the DE/Eldar combo is the only way to get a 2++ reroll, which is completely obnoxious.

  11. Jeremy Veysseire
    MikhailLenin November 14, 2012 3:25 pm #

    The Problem is the FAQ changes just says this: “Q: Do Dark Eldar allies count as Eldar for the Farseer psychic powers Fortune and Guide? (p28)
    A: No.”

    Makes no clarification regarding if that is Dark Eldar units being targeted or if Dark Eldar IC would benefit from Fortune if they are in an Eldar Unit.

    The statement is so a) Open and b) Broad that the only correct way to play this imo is to assume the Harlequin can be the target of the power but the Dark Eldar Characters do not benefit from the power.

    • J4ck_Fr0st November 20, 2012 7:13 pm #

      Also how my playgroup and I interpret it, and how our GW rep said to play it. Far from the end-all be-all, I know, but still.

  12. jy2
    jy2 November 14, 2012 3:28 pm #

    I’ve played against Frankie’s list before as well and it is truly a tough army to take on.

    To beat it, you use basically almost the same strategy as you would against any other deathstar army. Ignore the deathstar and kill everyone else. That’s actually easier said than done if you don’t have mobility in your army though. Also, Frankie’s made that harder to do by adding more troops. It truly is a tough army to play against.

    Frankie, a suggestion if I may. Go for the full 9 war-walkers. Drop some fire dragons and maybe even some harlies if you have to, but max out those walkers. They are frickin good.

    • Reecius
      Reecius November 15, 2012 10:10 am #

      You said it. The only way to consistently beat this army is to kill the troops. You then just try to avoid or slow the Deathstar down.

      And I also agree the War Walkers are worth it, they are incredibly good.

  13. jmanj123 November 14, 2012 6:30 pm #

    There are two major ways to take out the death star. First, I have to disagree with Reece, that it is hard to ‘avoid’ the tank characters taking the hits from template weapons. Many of the usable template weapons are on vehicles that can position a better angle on the unit to avoid the tank characters. Otherwise, you can avoid the tank characters taking wounds by not being able to see them. Reece you recently wrote an article about the use for the rhino, this is the use. Remember, only models that can be seen by the firer can be killed, so block LoS to the characters and you can only kill harlies. Now, I am not saying this army isn’t tough, but I think killing the harlies can be done by proper play.

    • Puretide1 November 14, 2012 7:12 pm #

      Thats want I was trying to say in my earlier post about avoiding vect and that and Fuegan 2+ save dosn’t scare me say hello to Mr plasma Rifle 😛

      • Reecius
        Reecius November 15, 2012 10:09 am #

        The unit has a 2+ cover as well, 4+ in the open, and with a reroll. Shooting this unit seriously is pointless.

        • Puretide1 November 15, 2012 2:13 pm #

          As I play tau the cover save isn’t a problem to get around using markerlights to get rid of it or reduced until harlies are better using their 5++ save re-roll.

          • Reecius
            Reecius November 16, 2012 7:40 am
            #

            Ah yeah, duh! Haha, forgot about market light. True enough, that’s an excellent point.

    • Reecius
      Reecius November 15, 2012 10:15 am #

      Using the Rhino to block LOS to Tanking Characters would be a good use, but having played this army MANY, MANY times, I can tell you for sure, it is really hard to get past those lead characters. I use Hellhounds, deep striking units, etc. and it honestly is not as easy as you think. Even if you get past the tank characters, the best I can manage is to kill a few of the Harlies before casualty removal means one of the Tank characters is now the closest. It really and truly is not as easy as it sounds. Frankie positions the characters well to avoid leaving anyone ou in the breeze.

  14. SCP Yeeman November 14, 2012 10:26 pm #

    Winterman

    Vect will still benefit from Pain tokens as he has Power From Pain. However, the unit does not get Pain Tokens as they do not have that rule. So when vect grabs his first, his is the only one to benefit from FnP.

    As far as the list goes, I think it is tough to crack. I do think that 10 Fire Dragons is quite a few on the Quad Gun. I would think you could find some better use of the points, but 10 Fire Dragons do scare anyone and anything.

    How do you cope with Eldrad not having Fleet? I would think that comes up sometimes to be a major hinderance. How do you get around this? I have seen Bat Reps when you split off Vect and Fuegan, is this the usual thing to do?

  15. Charlie November 15, 2012 3:46 am #

    I ran the Harliestar at the 11th Co tourney this past weekend but slightly different from what you are running:

    Vect
    Eldrad
    10 Harlies (7 x Kisses, Troupe Leader, Death Jester, Solitaire)

    I added the Death Jester in the event someone wanted to challenge with an uber character so I could throw out a cheaper model. Some of the things I noticed through the six games:

    -It can be quite slow b/c of the non Harlie models as they lose the flip belt ability and Eldrad not having fleet. This meant I didn’t get to assault until nearly turns 3 or 4. If time is getting away from you, turn 5 was generally my last turn. The Harliestar was always in good shape, but I couldn’t kill enough. I learned this the hard way when I’d roll pretty low for my assault range and only Vect was in range. He’d attack at Initiative 8 and literally clear out the front 5-6 models. At initiative 6 (Harlies), with their 3″ move to pile in, they could not get into base to base with anyone and Vect was not in b2b, thus, the Harlies lost out on their attacks (28 Kiss attacks, 5 Power Wpn attacks is a LOT to lose in an initial assault).

    -It will kill stuff. Over six games, this unit dropped over 200 models (2 x IG blob squads in one game). This is one unit that can wade into units such as IG blobs, 30 Boyz, 30 Gargoyles and chew through them fairly quickly.

    -Preferred Enemy: Vect gives preferred enemy and when you are rolling so many dice, those one’s will come up.

    -Hit and run at initiative 5 is crazy good.

    -I do agree you need Eldrad for the 2 Fortunes. In most games, it’s not a huge deal, but then play against Tyranids and Shadows of the Warp. From our understanding, I’m now rolling 4d6 and dropping the highest die roll. I played against 2 Tyranid horde armies and I think this army will be making a comeback in 6th.

    -The art of creating that cover save is pretty important if you have to move into an area with no terrain. When this occurred, I’d likely utilize my 100 point Wave Serpent (as it can move in the shooting phase) to create the cover save. There are many units that can do this and preferably don’t use a scoring unit like Eldar Jetbikes.

    -The downside I did find with the Harliestar is you really need the rest of your army built around it. I only ran 3 troop choices and none were on bikes. This was a huge mistake as I struggled mightily against horde armies and claiming/contesting table quarters/objectives (NOVA missions). The list posted here has a lot of synergy b/c of the number of bike units; being able to move 48 inches in a single turn is absolutely crazy. My only recommendation would be to get a squad of Reaver jetbikes as they have Skilled Rider and I found in the NOVA styled missions, every objective sits in cover.

    The big question I have:

    Can you explain why Fuegan is added? What does he truly add to this deathstar unit that they already don’t have? Thanks.

    • Charlie November 15, 2012 3:47 am #

      Oops, I meant Hit and Run at Initiative 6.

    • bugsculptor November 15, 2012 5:38 pm #

      I’m interested where you got that Shadows Versus Runes ruling from – I seem to remember from a previous ruling that Shadows and Runes cancelled out, leaving a regular 2d6 check rather than going up to 4d6 and picking the 3 lowest.

      • Reecius
        Reecius November 16, 2012 7:44 am #

        INAT gw never adressed it.

        • bugsculptor November 16, 2012 7:19 pm #

          Thanks – I must’ve remembered it from some ruling like that in the past and assumed it was GW. I’ll play the 4d6 drop one unless they FAQ it themselves, as it does make more sense.

  16. Charlie November 16, 2012 3:31 am #

    The only thing I found in the FAQ was Runes of Witnessing and Runes of Warding cancelling out. The only thing I knew about was multiple Shadows do not stack. Shadows states to roll and additional d6. Runes states to roll 3d6 and drop the highest. It appeared that the rules to not conflict one another so it was 4d6 and drop the highest.

    If someone can find a ruling contrary to this, I’d be appreciative as it cost me dearly in both games against my Tryanid opponents.

    • Reecius
      Reecius November 16, 2012 9:19 am #

      The simplest solution is to say they cancel each other out, but by logic, you must roll 4d6, drop the highest. That is the way most tournaments play it, but it is a bit convoluted.

  17. Charlie November 16, 2012 12:31 pm #

    As long as I know ahead of time, I’m ok with it. And after playing 2 Tyranid armies out of 6 games, I definitely need 2 x Fortunes.

  18. Mike November 18, 2012 10:43 am #

    Frankie have you tried the baron in this list instead of vect?
    It adds versatility. Also means new troop option in the form of hellion.And a mobile hit and run if you need it. Much cheaper than veCT.
    Would free up the points for a walker squad that jim suggested or allow a razorwing or ravager to join the party!

  19. Douglas November 19, 2012 5:22 am #

    Harlys have hit and run.

    Vect > Baron because of need to get fortune. And hellions are expensive, you dont get many for the points diff between the hqs. vect super charges the harlys w/preferred enemy, and fearlessness, which can allow vect or fuegan to run off alone and still have fearless harlystar.

    etc

  20. Gorkamorker November 20, 2012 9:35 pm #

    Just force Frankie to wear boxing gloves, that way he can’t roll dice and automatically loses.

  21. mike November 21, 2012 4:53 pm #

    I don’t understand why does vect help with fortune? They both have shadow fields.
    And I don’t think preferred enemy does much here. Nothing is going to charge this unit unless fortune and doom both down. Oh and the baron means no charge bonus even if they did.

    Not saying necessarily better but worth trying

  22. Charlie November 22, 2012 4:37 am #

    Preferred enemy is quite a nice buff. This unit is truly the meat of the army and needs the ability to survive almost anything as well as attack and defeat nearly everything. The entire unit benefits from Preferred Enemy and with as many dice as this unit will throw down, you will see a lot of 1’s in both rolling to hit and to wound rolls.

    Typically, on the charge, this is what I’m rolling:

    Vect: 7 AP3, wounding on 3+ dice
    Harlies: 28 Kiss dice
    Troupe Leader: 5 AP3 PW dice
    Shadowseer/Death Jester 7 dice
    Eldrad: 3 dice (no armor saves, wounds on 2+)

    50 dice rolls averaging (sloppy math note) eight 1’s that I get a reroll for on the to hit (generally needing 3+ to hit) This can be huge as there are 5 character models in the unit which can utilize Precision Shot. Also, think about going into things like IG blob squads or 30 strong Gargoyle units. You need the massed number of dice and need every hit you can muster.

    Over 6 games, this unit went into huge squads and nothing really could touch it. All those attacks generally also go before most other units in the game.

    As to how Vect helps with Fortune as opposed to the Baron, I have no idea.

    Fearlessness is a huge boon for assault in this edition. In the event you lose assault, you have no fear (pun intended) of running away. This considerably helps you dictate the course of the assault as you have Initiative 6 Hit and Run.

    For me, as a player of mechdar in 5th, I really enjoy running a true beast of an assault unit as assault was virtually a no-go for my all throughout 5th.

  23. mike November 22, 2012 1:14 pm #

    Oh I get how awesome preferred enemy is ( I use flyrants to buff all the time in my nids list) . I just don’t think very many things survive 2 rounds of combat with that unit without pe and like any super death star overinvesting is a problem. Excuse the in my head calcs but…8 Doom fortune harlies by themselves will put out 22 hits 17 wounds against t4, 19 v t 3 with a max rend potential of 7. When you add in the 4 no save wounds from the bosses that is tough for any unit to get up from. All at high initiative and WS.
    I think that roughs out to 8 dead regular termies or 5 ttss. MCs get completely kicked in the nuts. Blob guard will lose 16 which likely take out power weapons or even commissar.
    I don’t see vect as necessary as a result but I have not tried this combo either so maybe I is crazy.

    • White925 November 23, 2012 12:55 pm #

      The main reason Vect is so important to this list is his 4+ seize the initiative because fortune is the backbone of that unit. If you do not get it off before your opponent shoots you the unit will crumble very fast. His 2++ save really helps in a close combat against another deathstar like paladins because with the right placement of Vect you can take every invo save on him instead of fuegan who does not have an invo.

  24. Charlie November 23, 2012 4:11 am #

    I did forget to mention that Vect also can steal the initiative on a 4+. But, his 2+ inv save is pretty clutch for those times you have to cross open ground or when crazy Hellhound type weapons come at you.

    However, I’m still not sure what Fuegan really adds to this.

    • White925 November 23, 2012 12:58 pm #

      Fuegan is the main tanking Character in that unit as he has a 2+ save with feel no pain. He also has eternal warrior which helps with strength high weapons. Plus fuegans gun is the business and has killed more flyers and big monsters than anything else in my army. He is also a beast in close combat especially with the smash ability making him strength 10 instance killing paladins and nob bikers. Fuegan makes a great warlord with how tough he is plus when he breaks off from the unit he can hold his own.

    • Brian November 23, 2012 1:04 pm #

      Fuegan is another 2+ armour save screan for your harlies i Believe. though it isnt invun with fortune it sruggs off most fire.

    • Brian November 23, 2012 1:35 pm #

      well i meant screen but it looks like someone beat me to the answer and his is more indepth

  25. Charlie November 24, 2012 4:36 am #

    I’ve not faced Nob Bikers or Paladins in this edition yet, which is likely why I’ve not carefully read Smash. I can see some utility with that ability against them. I suppose I’ve not faced anything quite yet that has been able to stand up to Eldrad/Vect/10 Harlies. Fuegan almost appears like overkill. With instant death weapons against Vect or Eldrad, I’d likely just 2+ LoS and take it on a Harlie. In most cases, I’m rolling a 2+ or 4+ cover save with a reroll.

    However, I think the real trick to your army isn’t so much this unit, but the super fast scoring units you have which start in reserve, giving your Harliestar time to take a central position on the board. I think this creates a situation in which your opponent must focus his attention to your Harliestar and must ignore the scoring units (which is fairly crucial to winning most 6th edition games). The War Walkers are a bit fodder, but another decent shooting unit (or three) in which folks tend to focus on them over units such as Jetbikes.

    Another fun trick I have learned with the Harliestar is to cast Fortune, then have all the IC’s split off in different directions to go after separate targets. Every character and the Harlies retain Fortune and it’s definitely caught folks by surprise.

    All in all, I like the list a lot and it provides a surprising level of synergy….as well as high levels of frustration for your opponent.

    Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the unit as well as explaining Fuegan. I’ve yet to try him, but can see why he’s been included.

  26. From the internet February 19, 2013 4:24 pm #

    Can they be tank shocked and removed from play?

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