Daemons in 6th: What’s Changed.

A guest editorial by Zid.

Howdy all,

Zid again from DakkaDakka here again with more knowledge to drop on you. Well I guess it wouldn’t be KNOWLEDGE per-se, but some opinions of what I’ve gathered thus far reading through, writing lists, writing more lists, and driving my wife crazy staring at my new shiny rulebook.

With the advent of 6th edition it’s a new dawn! Many of the older armies gathered strength from the new ruleset, other armies got slight nerfs, and allies allow the more “shelved” armies to come out and play with some viability now. I’m here to visit one of my favorite armies of all time, one I’ve started, sold, then started again when I picked 40k back up; Chaos Daemons. Now, I will say this much, I have NOT played a game of 6th yet. Sadly real life doesn’t quite make lemonade for me all the time, but I will have my first chance at 6th in a couple weeks with a 2k Feast of Blades prep tourney (perhaps I’ll post my reps up here as well… herm, what say you Reece? Bring it!-ed).

The Basics

With the change over to 6th a lot of rules changed, both for good and for bad. I’ll go over the Daemon army as a whole here as to what we gained, and what we lost, then dive into specific units I feel got flexed or got beat down.

The army as a whole gained:

– One of the only armies that can full-reserve without penalty

– Every Daemon has the Fear rule, which makes us far more killy against elite armies

– Access to Psykers via Allies

– Access to cheap troops and firepower via Allies

– Lots of fliers

– Fearless no longer has any bad effects

– Our base invulnerable save is the same as cover, so we no longer have to hug forests and things to live; balls-out time!

What the army lost as a whole:

– We can lose the game very quickly now due to the fact you can lose if you have no units on the field… compound this by the fact that, if we get a bad wave, we can get smoked.

– EW didn’t really gain or lose anything, but some psychic powers can now REMOVE fearless… Which really can hurt.

I’m sure theres a few things I’ve missed, but hey; nobody’s perfect!

Headquarters

Fateweaver: So the almighty fateweaver…. What our beloved Big Bird gained was the ability to fly, the fact his aura works on everything (even while flying), and the much debatable +2 str from his staff (as he has Soul Devourer, which gives him a PW, which is a staff….). My thing with him is that I feel he will get the nerfbat once GW realizes what they unleashed; I don’t foresee them allowing rerolling save MoT terminators for all of 6th. Fateweaver did gain a lot of survivability (like he needed it?) with flying, and the +2 str means he can actually hurt stuff in CC.

Skarbrand: He’s screwed. The fact he cannot fly really hurts him, as he’ll take the brunt of your opponents firepower. Combine this with the fact he cannot hurt zooming fliers, which are a big part of the game now, you have a 300 point bullet magnet. I could see him being used in “fluffy” Berzerker lists though.

Epidemus: This guy only gained power through allies; Death Guard armies with Epidemus are pretty cool, fluffy, and powerful. Luckily PW’s are only AP3 now. Epidemus is also very vunerable without a large escort of plaguebearers, and can be “picked” out by blasts and snipers, so its not an infallible plan.

Bloodthirster: This guy’s a vector striking beast, not to mention his 2++ against psykers/powers/force weapons. He’s a must in any weaver list, and now he won’t go down as easily with firepower before seeing some action.

Lord of Change: Found some viability with the popularity of “the Flying Circus” (more on that later) due to his good save, ability to shoot, and (yet again) the +2 strength PW his staff gives. He’s still super expensive though.

Heralds: Heralds of T with bolts got a pretty big nerf with fliers, I can see these becoming less popular in favor of flying MC’s. Heralds of K got nerfed due to the PW changes, otherwise they’re the same. Heralds of N still suck, no change. Heralds of S got the biggest change, with the new rending and charges, I can see Slaneesh chariots becoming more used for cheap, punchy units.

Elites

Bloodcrushers: Got nerfed through the PW changes, but buffed charge range means they’re more threatening. Still stupid hard to remove as well, but will be relegated to an Anvil unit.

Fiends: These got tremendously buffed; 12” move, 2d6 assault, Rending (which is ap2!), ignore all terrain…. My most favorite unit from 5th got even better! Overwatch hurts em, but heck, anything you charge doesn’t really stand a chance between fear and 36 str 5 rending attacks!

Flamers of Tzeentch: Overwatch masters; opponents will try and focus fire these down with a quickness. These just became deadly to everything in the game, shooting invulnerable flamers, overwatching units to death. I can see large blobs of these becoming more popular.

Troops

Horrors: Still OK units, but can’t hurt fliers reliably at all. I can see a unit being taken for changling, but otherwise, Daemonettes and PB’s will take the healm.

Bloodletters: Meh… their weapons were nerfed pretty hard, and the change to FC means they no longer butcher marines before they swing. You’ll be seeing a lot less of these.

Daemonettes: The new powerhouse killytroop. The fact rending is AP2 is a huge boon, the reroll to charge distance due to fleet, tons of attacks, and grenades at a high initiative. They will go down quickly to overwatched flamers and things though, so they’re still soft.

Plaguebearers: The change to FNP means you basically have a rerollable 5++. The only things that will ignore it are things like Vindicators and Doomscythes; but who cares? Still cheap and durable.

Fast Attack

Seekers: Same with fiends, they got a buff. However, being calvary means you can potentially lose a lot on the charge. But they’re still stupid killy.

Fleshhounds: Got a much needed buff, but now Karanaks pretty useless. These I can see being a staple in foot lists due to their reliable charges, and the fact they all have a 2++ against force weapons. Of course, only after maxed fiends….

Screamers: Got buffed with charges, but got nerfed through overwatch. These guys will be primarily good at popping stationary shooty tanks (Russes, etc.), but I can see overwatching units out of transports mulching these fast. They weren’t durable in the first place!

Heavy Support

Soul Grinders: Well, these guys ignore 50% of penned results now (yay!)… if it’s higher than AP2. Also great is the fact you can overwatch The Harvester and the template weapon (sorry no dex on me ATM), which makes these especially great at killing things trying to kill them. Downside? Your AV13 can no longer hold up units, because if they cannot hurt you, they can haul butt away. Top this off with him being our only armored unit, a huge target, and AP2/1 weapons still blowing you up just as often…. Plus side is it can live through 3 glances!

Daemon Princes: This one I want to hit on hard, as this seems to be where everyone is like “zomg so awezzzooommesss what to take!” So I’ll go through each prince separately:

  • Mark of Khorne Prince: Could be a good Vector Striker… str 6 isn’t too bad. Thing is, without the ability to “buy” a power weapon, even with Ap2, you cannot garner any other bonuses from “choosing” how to model your prince. These got a great buff though with flying, so are good spearhead units.
  • Mark of Slaanesh Prince: I have a feeling this is going to be our go-to CC prince. The extra initiative, ability to pull units into whatever order you want with Pavane, and grenades makes these a good utility tool for some positioning shenanigans.
  • Mark of Nurgle Prince: Before these were our go-to for CC princes, due to  survivability, cloud giving grenades, and a 2+ poisoned power weapon. So whats changed? Well, flying made all princes about equal on the survival scale. Top it off with the fact you NEED Might for Vector Striking effectively, and the fact that Nurgle princes are durn expensive compared to their Slaneesh and Khorne counterparts, and it hurts him. He’ll see more popularity if (like some predict) the game goes more Infantryhammer.
  • Mark of Tzeentch Prince: This is where stuff gets fishy… we come back to the issue with Soul Devourer. I think it was unintended for Soul Devourer to give MC’s bonuses from their weapons. While its useable, I may suggest it (as you can have Strength 7 MOT princes if they were modeled with axes). Otherwise, I prefer a plain jane Bolt and Wings prince. Others seem to be drawn to breath more due to the new glance rules, but I’ll put it this way: the role of a MoT prince should be to wreck a vehicle in one shot, not try and glance it down. It takes 6 breaths, on average, to glance a vehicle down, and while some may advocate for charging a tank, I really try to avoid it.

ZiD’s List for Starting 6th (2k pts)

With all these changes, I feel confident that my new Daemon list will usher in a new age of terror for my foes. I dub it: Beastweaver!

Headquarters

Fateweaver – 333 pts

Bloodthirster – UM, Blessing – 275 pts

Elites

6x Fiends – Might – 190 pts

6x Fiends – Might – 190 pts

6x Fiends – Might – 190 pts

Troops

5x Plaguebearers – 75 pts

5x Plaguebearers – 75 pts

5x Horrors – Bolt – 95 pts

5x Horrors – Bolt – 95 pts

5x Horrors – Bolt, Changling – 100 pts

Heavy Support

Daemon Prince – MoT, Bolt, Wings – 200 pts

Daemon Prince – MoT, Bolt, Wings – 200 pts

Total: 2018 pts

The basic idea of this list is for Fateweaver and the Princes to ride around and pop fliers/tanks. Horrors target ground tanks, while Plagues drop on objectives. Fiends/Thirster are my infantry killers; hopefully most opponents will be so preoccupied trying to drop fliers that my killing force can drop things quickly and efficiently. First issue; what to cut to make points….

Other Lists

Some other lists that seem to be popping up with increasing popularity:

The flying circus: I really hate this list. The basics of the list is Fateweaver, a LoC or Thirster all kitted out, and 3 MoT princes with bells and whistles. The core of this list costs around 1300 points all said and done; this is before troops, elites, and everything else. This list (hopes) to dominate through flying shenanigans, using Fateweaver as an anchor. What many people don’t realize is, yes, it can live, and pop armor. But dropping flying MC’s is not hard; on top of getting grounded (possibly), you can also be wounded. Some people are already planning on using terrain to “hide” behind while being in flying mode… I can see things like this QUICKLY being nerfed on a tournament scene or through Faqs; if your flying, intervening terrain shouldn’t effect anything.

What do you guys think about this Daemon review? Flying MC’s getting cover saves is something we think is weird too, what say you all?

Tags:

About Reecius

The fearless leader of the intrepid group of gamers gone retailers at Frontline Gaming!

9 Responses to “Daemons in 6th: What’s Changed.”

  1. Reecius
    Reecius July 9, 2012 10:39 am #

    I am thinking there isn’t much of a case for the Daemons with the power/force weapon rules. The book states that their unit entry must state that they have a power or force weapon in order for that rule about WYSIWYG to kick in.

    • Shitty Bill July 9, 2012 11:04 am #

      Yeah, I agree. Dudes with axes (for example) don’t get strength bonus unless they are power or force weapons.

  2. jy2
    jy2 July 9, 2012 12:52 pm #

    The controversy here is that Soul Devourer is an upgrade certain Tzeentch units can get and its description says that it is a power weapon. The grey area is where you claim that it is a power maul because the LoC model is armed with a staff. Personally, I wouldn’t play it as such until it becomes a commonly accepted practice by players all over. Whenever a rule is controversial, I tend to go for the more conservative ruling unless both sides agree otherwise.

    That said, here is my idea of the daemon flying circus based on models that I already have.

    Fateweaver – 333 pts
    Bloodthirster – UM, Blessing – 275 pts

    Elites
    6x Fiends – 180 pts (I only have 12 fiends)
    6x Fiends – 180 pts

    Troops
    5x Plaguebearers – 75 pts
    5x Horrors – Bolt – 95 pts
    5x Horrors – Bolt – 95 pts
    5x Horrors – Bolt, Changling – 100 pts

    Heavy Support
    Daemon Prince – Might, MoT, Bolt, Wings – 220 pts
    Daemon Prince – Might, MoT, Bolt, Wings – 220 pts
    Daemon Prince – Might, MoT, Bolt, Wings – 220 pts

    1993

    • Reecius
      Reecius July 9, 2012 1:18 pm #

      Shit, just looked that up and you’re right. It is a power weapon. That’s crazy. I agree though, is it a maul? Yeah, I would actually say yes, as it is a staff and a power weapon.

      For the love of all that’s holy, hahahaha, Fateweaver didn’t need to get any better!

      Gah, these new rules are so crazy.

  3. Zid July 9, 2012 10:39 pm #

    Pretty much what jy said. The upgrade states its a pw, so people are using it to claim the bonuses from their weps. Fine example of gaming the system imo

    • Alex Yuen July 10, 2012 9:45 am #

      I think GW designs power weapon to be like that. U can pick whichever you want and take the benefit and whatever AP value that comes with it. So on an avg joe u got a Maul but is AP 4.

      • Reecius
        Reecius July 10, 2012 11:31 am #

        Yeah, I think they may have also done it because some models just have certain weapons and they didn’t know how else to handle it. I bet in future codices we’ll have points values for the different kinds of weapons.

        • Zid July 10, 2012 8:46 pm #

          While I agree, and see what they are trying to do, there’s obvious ways to game the system (daemons being one of them) to take advantage of things I doubt gw thought of. Who would have thought “well, fateweaver has ap 2, we need to make soul devourer worth it, so make it a pw… Oops! Now all mot daemons can get cc benefits beyond what we intended!”

          Either way, I suppose ill be happier with this edition once the waves calm down. Currently I’m really unhappy with how some of the rules interactions and how people are already finding ways to exploit things, but they’ll balance out or get banned from play I feel, which is a shame… One reason I love mini games is everyhtings playable, but some stuff is just plain unfair

          • Reecius
            Reecius July 10, 2012 9:48 pm
            #

            Yeah, I agree with you. It was a bold move to do what GW did, and I think on the whole it was an improvement. I think waiting for things to calm down is the best attitude. We definitely knee jerked a bit, haha!

Leave a Reply