40K: Further Adventures in Wound Allocation

Dur, Wound Allocation is Awesomest!

So, got a game in with Nids against Frankie’s Dark Eldar/Eldar force……ouch. Let’s talk about some of the tricks this rule gives us.

So DE still obliterate Nids. They are just much better at it now!

We played 1750, and rolled up Relic (movable objective), with Triangle deployment. Frankie rolled his Warlord Power as allowing his Archon to score, mine was rerolling reserves. We rolled night fight first turn. I got first turn, but Frankie had Vect, so I deployed as defensively as I could.

Frankie took 3 units of Blaster Warriors in Venoms, 3 Void Ravens, and a death star of 10 Harlies with a Shadowseer and kisses on everyone, Eldrad, Vect and an Archon with a Shadowfield, Drugs, Agonizer, and a unit of 3 Eldar Jetbikes.

I took my usual list with a slight twist (Farewell sweet Ymgarls! Thanks to JoeDrache, the Ymgarls can actually still charge out of rserves as their Codex specifically states it, nice!): Tervigon with standard kit, 2×20 Genesteelers with Poison, 3×3 Hive Guard, 2xTrygons with Poison (works way better now!), Adrenal, and Prime.

The game was a bit of a joke. The Steelers were in 4+ cover but Guided Venoms made short work of that (so crazy!). All 40 Genesteelers died by turn 2 and took only 4 Harlies with them! Ouch. Why?

Well, let’s discuss that, shan’t we?!

Never mind the fact this mission is inherently flawed because it forces armies to go at one another (some armies just can’t go heads up with assault armies and hope to live without allied support units).

Also, the Void Ravens are crazy against an army like Nids. They pretty much just flew around sticking me in the rear-end without much I could do. He hunted my Hive Guard, they tried to fight back but it was pretty ugly. I guess my bugs are going to have to get a Aegis, hahahaha, I will put an Ymgarl on a Quad gun as they aren’t good for much else these days. Won’t that be cool……an Ymgarl on a quad gun. Yeah.

You see, Frankie is a smart player and ran his Deathstar in such a way that I couldn’t get around it. Since I went first, I deployed in terrain knowing Vect could well seize on me (which he did). I had reserved both Trygons for that reason as with my Warlord ability it allowed me to have an 8/9 chance of getting each one in turn 2.

With Frankie having 2, 2++, and a 3++ rerollable model to maneuver in front of my shooting units, I did all of ZERO casualties to his deathstar. I managed to wound Eldrad twice, but that was only due to really poor dice. It walked through both units of Genesteelers without breaking a sweat. Now, had my Steelers been shooting units it would have gone better for me, but not by much. With a 1/36 chance to hurt the Archons, and a 1/9 to hurt Eldrad, it was just insanely stupid. Even the Harlies have a 5++ rerollable invul.

Rule issue: Eldar Psychic powers say they only work on “Eldar Units,” however if you use your base codex as the Eldar book, with Eldar harlies, and join the IC’s to it (Archon) they become a part of that unit for all rules purposes (pg. 39 BRB). Also, the Dark Eldar count as being allied units for the purposes of targeting psychic powers (pg.112). What do you guys think? I think it sticks, as lame as that is!

My Trygons came in turn 2, but thanks to terrain and model placement, could only get close to Eldrad, and were unable to get into the guts of the squad. They were unable to chew through him (no shocker) and even getting him down to 1 wound, Look Out Sir saved him from even having to see if he would take the 3rd.

I can hear people saying: well, just outmaneuver them!

It really isn’t that easy.

This formation makes it very hard to get at the guts of a squad.

The above picture shows a formation that makes it really, really hard to get past those front two wound soaking characters (red circles). You can adjust it too, to make minor shifts as needed. This formation is great against static or less mobile armies. Out flankers, deep strikers, flyers, etc. can bypass this, but in general, if you are lined up across the board from someone, this is not easy to get around, particularly when a smart opponent is using angles to his advantage.

This type of formation makes the unit very resilient against attacks from almost all angles. Again, the Wound soaking characters are in red. This means only units that get really close and at the right angle will be able to shoot past the characters. A lot of armies simply lack the speed to do this. And even if you do get close to do it, you are going to be in charge range which is often right where these types of units want you to be.

Plus, again, don’t forget Dark Eldar Harlies’ veil works the old way, meaning that you roll 2d6 x2″ to see them. Regular Eldar Harlies get shrouding and stealth, which with Fortune, is still crazy….worse, actually. 2+ rerollable cover save, 4+ in the open. Fun!

So we are trying to like Wound Allocation but it is just so easily abused.

In HtH it is really bad too, as this unit has very high Initiative and gets to choose where they go in most cases, meaning that your good stuff gets axed and the deathstar soaks all of the wounds on the Archons and Eldrizzle. Frankie just walked through Will’s 2 units of Blood Crushers and a unit of FIends taking only 4 casualties…yikes! And that is with Frankie failing a Fear check.

What do you guys think? Anything we’re missing? See a way around this issue? We are finding so many absolutely INSANE combos that our minds are blown.

What kinds of crazy combos are you guys finding?

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About Reecius

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53 Responses to “40K: Further Adventures in Wound Allocation”

  1. Chris July 6, 2012 4:59 pm
    #

    Dont think Eldrad can use his powers on dark eldar units. It says Eldar units only. Not dark eldar. As they are two different races I think it wont work.

    I was hoping it would as without Eldrads powers I think Dark Eldar might be in for a rough ride in this edition.

    • Reecius
      Reecius July 6, 2012 5:06 pm
      #

      I seriously hope so, that is honestly way, way too powerful. I think you have a good case for it not working.

      But now, it get’s weird as if you took Eldar Harlies but not Dark Eldar Harlies (? hahaha) it would work on the unit.

      So, you go Eldar, take Phoenix Lords as your HQ, with Eldrad, and run the Harlies and you have a similar effect. An archon would still be useful as a 2+ is no joke.

      Just checked the book, think it sticks. Check the sections on allies and IC’s in the BRB. Yikes.

      • Chris July 6, 2012 5:37 pm
        #

        hmmm, tricky one. I would probably argue if the power said targeting all friendly units then yes it would work. But the fact it says Eldar units then I dont think it will work.

        But its another FAQ needed by GW i think

        • Reecius
          Reecius July 6, 2012 10:11 pm
          #

          A way around it is to use Harlies from the Eldar codex, and then any attached IC’s count as being a part of that unit. That way, you can pull it off. A loop-hole, but I think it sticks.

  2. Aervyper July 6, 2012 5:09 pm
    #

    Insane combos pffffttt wait till they make forge world legal which you have pretty much confirmed. So tournaments will become insane I will be very interested to see how your first tournament goes. Will it be a we love GW fest or will it be total insanity.
    TTFN

    • Reecius
      Reecius July 6, 2012 5:10 pm
      #

      Insanity for now, as we see it! hahaha, man, this will be crazy.

      • Vidar July 7, 2012 7:13 am
        #

        Between Allies and FW codices, I truelly believe the meta-game is broken. There are just too many combos to be able to counter specific builds. This is a great thing in my opinion because meta-gaming limited the builds you saw on the table or at tournaments and t was just boring when you knew you were going to face such and such type of unit every game. All you can do is have the broadest answer to mass infantry and armor. It is going to force better generalship.

        • Reecius
          Reecius July 7, 2012 5:52 pm
          #

          That is their goal with this, for sure. We are going to see a near infinite combination of variables that will blow the Meta apart. Fucking nuts! I like it but also fear the insane combos coming down the line. We are already finding INSANE combos, but they aren’t unbeatable.

          It’s exciting, but crazy. I am looking forward to what is to come, for sure.

  3. Chris July 6, 2012 5:13 pm
    #

    I like Dark Eldar but this edition I think they are far to weak. FNP being 5+ is now v bad for them as the stuff like plasma etc.. that toughness 4 models can use FNP on DE cant. The only thing they can seems to be power weapons. But they love combat… Shooting will kill them in this editon. Snap shots et al.

    By the way I think the aegis walls are the most over powered thing.

    3+ cover which you can build so it covers most of your deployment. Buy the gun and I think it gets 3+ cover behind it. Tanks that are covered by 25% do to.

    I think IG are the top dogs now

    3 x 2 vendettas
    Tanks behind the aegis wall and heavy weapons.
    Manticore

    Probably can find an ally to fit into the list to make it even harder

    • Reecius
      Reecius July 6, 2012 5:20 pm
      #

      I think DE will be OK, now, but not the same type of army they were. Beasts got crazy, they have excellent Flyers, and with Eldar combos, they will be fine.

      Crazy times ahead!

      I agree though that IG got a HUGE (unneeded) boost. Blog squads will be CRAZY with allies and the new wound allocation rules, like too good, crazy.

      The game just went level 10 over powered.

      • Chris July 6, 2012 5:26 pm
        #

        oh yeah blob squads! no one is going to want to charge them!!!

        Jeeezzz

        BTW Reece what is your opinion on the flakk ammo for missile launchers for imperials. Do they get it or is it an upgrade? I hope they get it as I am worried flyers will ruin this edition.

        I am hoping GW faq it asap

        • Reecius
          Reecius July 6, 2012 5:50 pm
          #

          I don’t know, honestly. I would say no, because the codices define the missile launcher as having a frag and krak shot, and codex overrides BRB. I hope they FAQ that soon too, and a LOT of stuff, honestly.

          • Chris July 6, 2012 6:03 pm
            #

            I cant argue with that logic. (I am mainly a necron and ork player so not looking for it for my own good :-))

            I would let a marine player have it against me. Due to the FAQ in all codexs saying ‘You’ll also find that some of the weapons in this codex are written out longhand, rather than using the weapon profile format in the BRB. Dont worrry these are functionally identical, unless noted otehr isn this document.’

            So I would hope that GW meant to say on pg57 that some missile launchers that couldnt get the upgrade where the eldar, cyclone, typhoon missile launchers.

            Have you tested flyers much? I have played a lot of Apoc games and they were similar to what they are now and Vendettas were very much overpowered.

          • Son Of Dorn July 6, 2012 10:36 pm
            #

            Flakk ammo specifies that it must be bought as an upgrade, too. Much like the Vanilla Marine Stormraven, we just have to wait for specifics.

            Also, as the Aegis Defense Line follows rules for for Barricades and Walls, so it’s only a 4+ cover save; 2+ if you go to ground. 🙂

  4. Chris July 6, 2012 5:16 pm
    #

    oh and fit in the comms link for 20pts to make sure the vendettas come in on turn 2

    • Reecius
      Reecius July 6, 2012 5:18 pm
      #

      Hahaha, why not?

  5. Blackmoor July 6, 2012 6:22 pm
    #

    You need to upgrade your nids for 6th. That means tervagons and gargoyles.

    • Reecius
      Reecius July 6, 2012 6:39 pm
      #

      Oh yeah, I totally agree. I just played what I had in my bag.

      Gargs are going to be CRAZY!

      Poor Steelers, they used to be scary.

  6. joedrache July 6, 2012 6:30 pm
    #

    the nid codex states that ym garls can charge after revealing themselves. doesnt that trump the brb? cant the hive guard nerf his bs cover saves?
    what could his list have done against- say- a necron air force?

    • Reecius
      Reecius July 6, 2012 6:42 pm
      #

      Nice catch! Can’t believe I missed that, that is awesome.

      Nice one, joedrache, that makes me so much happier.

  7. Hulksmash July 6, 2012 7:04 pm
    #

    It’s something I was thinking of right off the bat with Karandras, Eldrad, 20 Guardians w/Conceal Warlock. Start bringing a barrage weapon in any army you can. Good news is they aren’t very expensive in any army that has them. Remember on barrage weapons you treat the center of the blast as the incoming point. Meaning you can eat that squad in a round or two.

    So for any marine army I feel like a Whirlwind is essential. So is a Colossus or even Mortar HWT’s for IG. Biovores for Nids. Nightspinner for Eldar & DE (since they don’t have their own). A few lobbas for Orks. Defilers & Soulgrinders for Chaos.

    Also properly deployed flame weapons can handle it too.

    But back on Barrage with what is sure to become more useful as the game shifts to higher concentrations of infantry which the rules support. Plus with a cover save being 5+ most of the time it greatly increases their impact on the game.

    Just throwing that out.

    • Reecius
      Reecius July 6, 2012 8:09 pm
      #

      Yeah, I was thinking Karandras, too. Furgan or Maugan Ra might be good choices too.

      I think Harlies are the business, but a big unit of Guardians may not be a bad choice either, as they are scoring. They aren’t nearly as killy, though.

      I think Barrage sniping is pretty dumb, myself. Not a fan of that rule, at all. Barrage weapons though, are the bee’s knees, as you said.

      Too much information, Hulk, my head is imploding!! hahah

  8. Shinkaze July 6, 2012 8:18 pm
    #

    It makes complete sense to me that when they write the game for the style of play shown in WD battle reports that it immediately breaks down when competitive players try to play to the rules.

    Oh well there is always the tournament community to save us from 6th.

    I like Nova saying no to 2xFoC and Beakycon saying we are playing 1,999. I also like Nova saying only Aegis no other fortifications. May be some issues with Aegis but that is a whole other can of worms. I would really like to see a tournament say screw this crap we are going to use good old fashioned 3rd/4th edition wound allocation. What is wrong with the Power Fist always being the last to die? If you REALLY only need that Melta gun to do something special…. isn’t that more cinematic than him dying and watching all of the suspense from the scene die?

    Maybe it’s just a game and not a movie. I am confused. Luckily worst comes to worst the books are better than ever and their will always be a 7th edition even if it is a fan edition.

    • Reecius
      Reecius July 6, 2012 10:14 pm
      #

      I think with some tinkering we can make this baby work for competitive play, but this will be the most broken edition since 2nd, no doubt.

      I genuinely like most of the edition, but wound allocation SUCKS. It literally makes me enjoy the game less. It is so easily broken. Outside of that, random charges and all the random missions effects just don’t do it for me. The rest, I am cool with, even fortifications.

  9. Hippesthippo July 6, 2012 8:34 pm
    #

    Lash of Submission will be very good at moving the 2+ save guy out of the way in a lot of these types of units. Also great for moving the special weapons guys up front. And congo-lining the enemy and assaulting with I6 beatsticks playing no-pile-in shenanigans.

    With vehicles being easier to kill, thus making it less likely to face a fully meched up list (you know how mech killed dual lash way back when), and infantry blobs like this becoming more popular again… Lash could be a very good anti-meta choice.

    ..until a new Chaos dex comes out in 3 months with no Lash in it.

    Note: I realize Eldrad is not easy to lash. I’m speaking generally.

    • Reecius
      Reecius July 6, 2012 10:16 pm
      #

      You are totally right. Pavane too, will get a significant boost.

      With all the infantry sure to be coming out way (perhaps, Mike Brandt made a good case for MSU shooty Mech armies still being tough) I think we can expect lash to get a lot better. Lash is crazy, the only mitigating factor is that everyone has a chance to stop it with Deny the Witch.

  10. Alex Yuen July 6, 2012 8:35 pm
    #

    I am just going to say something crazy here. From FAQ: Replace the second and third SENTENCES with: The Shadowseer, and all models in her unit, have Stealth and Shrouded special rules”.

    Veil of Tears (in Eldar Codex): (1)A Shadowseer is a psyker and always has the Veil of Tears psychic power. (2) It follows the same fules as warlock powers (see page 20-21).

    (3) The Shadowseer uses her powers to confuse and terrify her foe. (4) Any enemy unit wishing to target the Shadoweer or the unit she is with must roll 2D6x2…..

    SO if u follow the wording then u got:

    Veil of Tears (in Eldar Codex): (1)A Shadowseer is a psyker and always has the Veil of Tears psychic power. (2)(3)The Shadowseer, and all models in her unit, have Stealth and Shrouded special rules.

    (4) Any enemy unit wishing to target the Shadoweer or the unit she is with must roll 2D6x2…..

    • Reecius
      Reecius July 6, 2012 11:00 pm
      #

      Holy crap……

      But, I think they are referring to the second paragraph. But, in typical GW fashion, it is unclear.

      Technically though, I think you may be correct, as ridiculous as that is.

      • Alex Yuen July 7, 2012 8:57 am
        #

        I think they mean PARAGRAPH but use SENTENCES so if u what GW said then u got 2D6x2 first then u got a 2+ cover save. I do think they fuck up on this one

        • Reecius
          Reecius July 7, 2012 5:38 pm
          #

          I agree on both counts.

  11. benji July 6, 2012 9:07 pm
    #

    Hmm dumbing a barrage or two in the middle might get around this, from memory you determine closest from center of the blast.

    • Reecius
      Reecius July 6, 2012 10:17 pm
      #

      You do indeed, but the Eldar Harlies get shrouded and stealth! Haha, a 2+ rerollable cover save if in cover, 4+ if out. That will take the teeth right out of ordnance against this list.

  12. Kraxis July 6, 2012 9:07 pm
    #

    I thought of an idea to get around having a few unkillable IC soaking up wounds.

    Position a friendly unit or vehicle in such a way as to give cover to the IC and not the rest of the squad. Then focus fire on the squad.

    • Reecius
      Reecius July 6, 2012 10:20 pm
      #

      Yes, that is called Tank Sniping, and that will totally work. The issue though, is not cutting off LOS and range from too much of your own unit.

      Good catch though, that is a good way to counter crazy rules with crazy rules!

      • Kraxis July 7, 2012 1:55 am
        #

        To take it a step further if you could isolate the Shadowseer as the nearest model outside of cover you could effectively snipe her and thereby end the shrouding and stealth.

        Of course you would have to get through “Look Out Sir” and a rerollable cover save.

        The other option is take Divinination Psychics.

        Misfortune (reroll all successful saves) would counter Fortune and Perfect Timing (Unit ignores cover saves) would counter the Shadowseer.

        Obviously though you have a 1/3 chance to get either one (not to mention dealing with Runestones). But it still adds another way to get through this insane deathstar unit.

        • Reecius
          Reecius July 7, 2012 5:41 pm
          #

          Yeah, good point. Players will have to dig for those counter tactics. You put the Shadowseer in the middle of the squad, every time to avoid that issue, for sure. We also talked about positioning key characters like a Death Jester and troupe masters in a vulnerable spot to use LOS to make that side of the unit harder to kill.

          Using psychic powers ON that unit is really tough to do, between rune of warding and deny the witch, not much is getting through.

          • Alex Yuen July 9, 2012 10:20 am
            #

            Right NOW you still have to spot them so if u can shoot or cast stuff on them, then u are within the 2d6 range aka charge range. so at that point shadowseer got snipe out is ok.

          • Reecius
            Reecius July 9, 2012 11:04 am
            #

            Eldar Harlies have Stealth and Shrouding, DE Harlies have veil, so it’s confusing. Frankie used the Eldar kind.

  13. Kralizak July 6, 2012 10:19 pm
    #

    guess what? Tyranids barely care about the new Wound Allocation system except for that we have to take from the front lines, not the back, thus reducing charge range. Only IC in the whole damn codex is the Tyranid Prime, but in a 2000 point game it’s generally not a worthy choice when there’s the Tervigon and now-awesome Flyrant to pick from. unless you are running a group of Warriors (why would you do that again?)

    • Reecius
      Reecius July 6, 2012 10:27 pm
      #

      Yeah, I agree. I think the Brooldlords are going to be really good now, too, though and they care about the wound allocation rules. Broodlords will really help Nids out a ton.

      The Parasite with Gargoyles are going to be the straight business now, too. I think that is another unit that will need to be mindful of Wound Allocation.

      I think Nids are going to be OK, it will just take a while for people to get there.

      • joe drache July 6, 2012 10:49 pm
        #

        the boodlord has BS 0 wah wah. not witchfires for him, do you get to reroll that or are you stuck with a power you cant use. nids are hurting in this ed. i cant see a way to make them good. flyrants die to bolters now- 230 points flushed.

        • Reecius
          Reecius July 6, 2012 11:09 pm
          #

          Yeah, that is a good point. I think you would have to add a rule that states that if you roll a power you can’t use, you get a reroll until you get one you can use. Gah, what a dumb system! hahaha

          We’ll have to see how it all pans out, but I am sure there are some winners in there.

  14. edwin July 7, 2012 11:40 am
    #

    How does that death star deal with character tar pits ? A 2+/3++ necron overlord with mss and war scythe could pose a real problem for this especially if you can position a command barge to where only a character can get into btb. Challenges can hurt that star badly. Character either accepts and renders squad useless for a round, character refuses and with no one in base to base, the unit can’t swing. When initiative step 2 comes, your character steps up and politely eats 2 harlequeen. Rinse repeat.

    • Reecius
      Reecius July 7, 2012 5:38 pm
      #

      They have Hit and Run! Haha, that is why it is so crazy, well, one of the many reasons.

      We considered challenges, actually. You take a Death Jester or Troupe Master just to take or make challenges.

      It just really doesn’t have any weaknesses except to massed templates, like Burnas for example that can reliably get there.

      • edwin July 7, 2012 11:30 pm
        #

        Can they hit and run if eldrad doesn’t have it ? I thought usr like that were all or nothing.

  15. -STUCARIUS- July 7, 2012 5:08 pm
    #

    Responding to the “wound allocation” Formation in the negative…

    Sure it would work but you are going to have to put 2-3 characters in a unit that is not too large and who are not using full 2″ dispersion thus making them template and blast targets. It gives a whole new meaning to “Death Star Unit” I think. If you actually play some one who spends that much of their army points on a single unit that is so completely exposed to destruction by blast templates then that is win win for you.

    I have no doubt that somewhere int eh responses some one else has pointed out this obvious fallacy concerning this unit. Look, I love 6th Ed. It does how ever have some real issue that a “Real” FAQ needs to clear up ASAP. Wound Allocation is not one of its problems if you do nto mind how painfully slow it is.

    • Reecius
      Reecius July 7, 2012 5:36 pm
      #

      The thing with a lot of these Deathstars is that they really aren’t that vulnerable to blast weapons. Harlies for example have shrouding and stealth, combined with Fortune can result in a rerollable 2+ on EVERY model in the unit! Hahaha, that is absurd.

      Flamers are different, but even then, a reroll on an invul makes it so hard to deal with.

      I am sure their are counters and in time we will see them, but particularly big scoring Deathstars like Blob squads, Guardians, Pallies, Nob Bikers, are going to be so hard to deal with.

      We keep looking for ways to speed up wound allocation, but it is just flat out slower now, you are right.

    • Alex Yuen July 9, 2012 10:27 am
      #

      Well if you are playing on a sunday afternoon then slow is fine. But when u only have 2.5 hours ya that become a big problem. rolling 40 dices one at a time is not ideal.

      • Reecius
        Reecius July 9, 2012 11:03 am
        #

        Not at all. We’re looking for ways to speed it up, but it is a cumbersome and poor design.

        • Alex Yuen July 9, 2012 12:59 pm
          #

          Do you see a net gain or benefit with this new allocation design. I just don’t see wasting more time doing something that have no net benefit at the end.

          • Reecius
            Reecius July 9, 2012 1:05 pm
            #

            None at all. It is a system made to be abused. I honestly see NOTHING good about it, at all. I know the thought process behind it was that it would allow you to move to get at the guts of a squad and take out special weapons, etc. but the system really just allows for abuse. We’re already talking about modifying it in some way. We don’t want to at all, and will wait before we do anything drastic, but it is something being discussed.

  16. joe drache July 8, 2012 10:13 am
    #

    my head hurts from beating it against the brb!

    here’s how i understand it now-

    in a group where all armor saves are the same- a character, who is out front, taking the first wounds can either
    roll his own armor save fail it, then roll LoS, succeed, and another model within 6 dies without a save, instead of him.

    or

    he can elect to not roll his own save and if passing LoS make another guy roll that save.

    BUT

    in a group of mixed armor saves, the character taking wounds CANT roll his own save, fail, LoS and make someone else die instead.

    INSTEAD,

    he has to LoS first, make someone else take the save

    is this right?
    why?
    where in the rulebook does it spell this out?

    you’d think a radical rules change like this would be more clearly worded, i dont see this in the text. it looks to me like any character can LoS any wound, or his own failed armor save any time he wants.

    where does it say that is not so?
    for the record, i hope it isnt

    btw no challenges to or from the command barge.

    • Reecius
      Reecius July 8, 2012 12:50 pm
      #

      I think you have it apart from the character with a similar armor save being able to chose to LOS before taking a save. With all saves the same, you roll them at the same time and then if he is allocated a failed save, may LOS it off to another model. Although, it DOES sound like you can choose to do it before taking a save….it is unclear. Gah, I really, really dislike this rule!