Thoughts on Dark Footdar Part 3

Hey everyone, back again with some more insights into building a Dark Footdar list.

First of all, thanks to everyone for all the awesome feedback. We’ve gotten some great ideas bouncing around and I am really excited about this list.

Some of the ideas we’ve heard from those out there who have actually played the list or tried some of the ideas we’ve bounced around here are really encouraging.

Red Corsair says he’s tried using 2 units of 8 Grotesques and has had really good results. I feel that that may be a bit too points heavy, but I can see how it would be a brutally powerful combo!

BigToof said he has tried the Malys-Star Grote unit against GKs and smashed them, which is music to my ears! Stopping NFWs meant that the Grotesques just walk through those squishy Purifiers. However, I would like to see how they fair against Paladins, particularly a Draigostar.

I feel that at this point we can fairly safely say the Grotesque unit is most likely the right choice for delivering the WWP’s for most lists. Every local meta is different and as such different solutions may work better for people in other areas, but it will be where I begin building my list.

So, what to fill the list out with?

I think the Talos is a solid choice. Red Corsair says he has not had great results with them, but hyv3mynd swears by them. That discrepancy may be a result of play style, local opponents, terrain, etc. I want to like the Talos, so I am going to toss 1-2 in the list. That high toughness and MC attacks can be invaluable, and once they get FnP, man they can be nasty. Plus, you can toss a twin-linked heat lance on them and, coming out of a WWP, can get into the enemy lines really quickly popping transports and then charging the unit inside. For a low points cost, I think they add a lot to the list.

Scourges immediately jump out at me in this list, too. The reason why, is because they can be declared to be deep-striking, but can opt to come out of the WWP if that is more advantageous. This flexibility can be super useful. Your opponent will have to defend against so many axis of entry that it can really take them out of their game. Heat Lances, Blasters, or Haywire Blasters would be my choice here. I like the Haywire Blasters right off the bat as an Assault 1, 24″ weapon with the ability to damage any vehicle makes this a true skirmishing unit. That range means they can deep-strike at a safe distance (or start on the board) and suppress key vehicles all game long. The unit still serves well in a light anti-infantry role as well. Long Fangs and Lootas would have to be wary of them.

Reavers may not be a bad choice either, as their speed allows them to hit any point of the board out of a WWP, or they can simply come on from normal reserves and still get to where they need to be, or for late game objective contesting. A movement based attack means that they can almost always contribute to the fight. Heat lances or blasters would be my choice on this unit, possibly with an Agnoizer or venom blade on the Arena Champion. With Skilled Rider, they can safely move through cover. With the Eldar Jetbike rule, they can JSJ (jump-shoot-jump) to be extra annoying, and with a good drugs role, and a pain token or two, can actually go into combat with non-dedicated assault units and take them down. Again, that versatility is nice. The points cost can get a bit steep though, for a unit that can and will get smoked easily if miss-played.

Blasterborn on foot would work well, too. Coming from mid-board, they could reach a huge chunk of the field out of a WWP. For 108pts a unit or two of these could really add a lot of transport popping ability to the army, which it really needs.

Harlies and even Incubi could find a place in a list like this, as well. Again, coming out of that WWP means you get to strike without being struck first. If your opponent wants to avoid this, he has to steer clear of mid-field which for most armies is game changing.

The real question for me though, is what to do with your troops? Nothing jumps out at me right away as a really efficient choice. Wyches look like they could be good with Haywire Grenades and Shardnets as a Tarpit/Dread hunting unit. Wracks look good for the increased durability and objective camping. Warriors could be good with a blaster, or just as dedicated infantry hunters. They all seem like they could have a use, but nothing really stands out.

I think I will take a 3 man unit of Wracks in every list as a dedicated objective taking unit. Outside of that I am torn between taking full units of any of the above with upgrades to function as objective grabbers/damage dealers. The issue there is that it soaks up a lot of points and I end up with 3 scoring units. As fragile as DE troops are, I would really like to have at least 4. Perhaps MSU Blaster Warrior squads would be a good solution.

Play testing will tell!

If anyone else has any thoughts on the troops issue, I would love to hear them. We will go into actual lists in the next installment and some more brain-storming.

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About Reecius

The fearless leader of the intrepid group of gamers gone retailers at Frontline Gaming!

24 Responses to “Thoughts on Dark Footdar Part 3”

  1. Alarum May 3, 2012 2:57 am
    #

    Wyches! They are great if you can get then into combat before they get blown off the board by a stiff breeze. I use units of 10 with Haywire grenades (never leave Commorragh without them) 2 Shardnets and a Hekatrix with Venom blade. I like to charge large or tough to kill units with them followed by a Talos. I regularly fight 30 strong Ork mobz and having the Nobz Klaw negated with the Nets lets your Talos tear through the rest with no chance of being wounded back.

    Wracks are great at holding objectives but not being fleet hurts them coming out of a portal. Units of 5 with a Hexrifle is a bit gimmicky but hilarious when it works. 36″ range sniper rifle while camping an objective is a good way to spend 15 spare points if you have them.

    Warriors…. I dont know what I do wrong with these guys but the only way I can get anything from them is 5 in a Venom with a blaster. And even then its the Venom doing all the work. I rarely use them anymore because I always get above par results with my Wyches.

    My vote is for 2 units of Wyches and 2 of Wracks.

    • Reecius
      Reecius May 3, 2012 12:15 pm
      #

      Yeah, I love those Wych models, too. The only issue is, as you have said, they die to a stiff breeze.

      The lack of Fleet on the Wracks was a concern of mine, too. They are so much more durable, though. And yes, that hexrifle could be amazing when it insta-gibbes a tough target in one shot!

      I like Warriors, but they are so fragile. Unlike Dire Avengers or Guardians they don’t have assault weapons, and they’re save is pretty low. I was considering 6×5 with a Blaster as a good choice, it just really ups the KP count.

  2. hyv3mynd May 3, 2012 5:03 am
    #

    I started with wracks originally, but they pretty much do nothing. For 30pts, I figured I’d rather spend 60 and get a blaster. I’ve been running 2x 5 warriors with blasters and 10 wyches with haywires, nets, and an agonizer. The wyches can take out a wide range or units in assault. Depending on when they arrive, they can be a mop-up unit, surround and pop a transport, or multi-assault in with grotes to lend their nets and invulns.

    I switched the wracks to warriors because unless you figure out how to fit in more scourges and trueborn than me, you’ll always want for more ranged anti-tank. Wyches can also score, but assaulty scoring units tend to expire before the game ends.

    • Reecius
      Reecius May 3, 2012 12:16 pm
      #

      See, I often take a super cheap unit who’s sole purpose is sitting on an objective. I am used to playing the way, but I can see your point.

      The Blaster is a good point, though. For a marginally larger investment, you get more durability and actual combat power.

  3. Skari May 3, 2012 5:42 am
    #

    I Honestly think that in the troops area you can easily go down the warrior rout… 10 warriors, with a cannon and a blaster are only 115pts… take that 4 times and you have good long range AI and some mid range AT.

    And staying power.

    If you DO run Urien, then a couple units of wracks would be gold, 10 man, as a counter assault unit, those poison weapons with FC Are really nasty.

    • Reecius
      Reecius May 3, 2012 12:17 pm
      #

      That isn’t a bad choice, either. That splinter cannon is move and shoot, and it gives the unit a lot of flexibility, more staying power and less KPs. I think that definitely bears investigation.

  4. chipstar May 3, 2012 6:53 am
    #

    So it appears I’m not the only one considering the grotesque delivery. Saw last night on Dakka that blackmoor and others may be also. While at first I felt less like a special snowflake, I think it’s a good sign because it lends credence to the idea. I’ve definitely enjoyed the flow of consciousness analysis thus far.

    I do have one scenario that I’m concerned about. The list I’m working with has 2 Haemis with WWPs and Malys attached to the grotesque squad. What do you do in Dawn of War? If you go first, you could of course deploy a single WWP Haemi in the center, hopefully 100% hidden, and then drop it into your enemy’s deployment zone. Similarly, if he plays cautious and gives you most of the board to deploy in. But what happens when they go first and deploy on the half line? More so, at that point you’re limited to a single WWP, and I have concerns about not having 2 for this list to work.

    • Reecius
      Reecius May 3, 2012 12:18 pm
      #

      I was thinking the same thing in DoW. You deploy the Haemis on their own, out of LoS. That way they can drop those WWP’s safely, hopefully even if you go second. Hiding a single model shouldn’t be too hard, even on a board with poor terrain coverage.

      I will be interested to see what Blackmoor does with the list.

      • chipstar May 4, 2012 6:24 am
        #

        I have a question regarding something you said. In DOW, you can deploy “up to one unit from his HQ selections”, pre the BRB. If you have 2 haemonculi chosen as a single HQ slot, and are using them together as a unit, can they both be deployed?

        • Reecius
          Reecius May 4, 2012 9:17 am
          #

          No, each Haemi is a “unit” as defined by the BRB, so therefore you can only deploy 1.

  5. BigToof May 3, 2012 7:38 am
    #

    Hi Reecius,
    I’d advise getting Wyches to lock up Dreads in case they start getting too aggressive and also Warriors as you really need every lance that you can get your hands on!
    Small units of Wracks are hit and miss as they really are good at getting you a scoring vehicle, but I would heavily advise giving the opponent something they can shoot with all their lonely autocannons.
    I’m going to try to get a game vs Draigowing (proxy or otherwise) and see how it goes. However, I must warn you, I only play at 1500pts, so it won’t be a tournament grade list by any means.

    Best,
    -BT

    • Reecius
      Reecius May 3, 2012 12:21 pm
      #

      I like 1500pts, myself. The games are quick and fun.

      I am really interested to hear how the Malys-Star fares against the Draigostar. Also, let us know if you guys rule her ability stops Hammer Hand and NFW (which I believe it does).

      Wychs have a lot of flavor, too. I think they provide good functionality as well as adding a lot of character to a DE force.

      • BigToof May 3, 2012 5:11 pm
        #

        Hi Reecius,
        Ugh, just want to try and write something down.
        We played that Draigowing can’t use Hammerhand, but it was still rough, as I was playing against the full diversified nonsense with all the bells and whistles.
        It eventually boiled down to Draigowing charging the Malys-Star, as I was rolling like a Boss for FNP. The Malys-Star took massive losses, but then I charged in with Wyches out of the nearby WWP for a very long grindy escapade. Draigo was last to fall, but he lasted all the way to the end of the game.
        Ugly, but barely got the win.

        • Reecius
          Reecius May 3, 2012 6:29 pm
          #

          Sounds brutal, but, you did pull out the victory in a straight up fight with Draigowing, which is huge! That is really encouraging.

          • BigToof May 4, 2012 4:10 am
            #

            It didn’t feel as encouraging as just… aggravating.
            The GK player at the end didn’t like it and was in a mood the whole night, telling everyone how Malys shouldn’t work.
            So… expect friction in tournaments if you try to use the Star is all I’m saying.
            Still, it was pretty fun on my end, as it almost felt like Fantasy, with big blocks hitting each other and then flanking fast units (i.e. Wyches in this case) coming in to save the day.
            I have no idea how this will work at higher point values, as I felt very strained to deal with Draigowing even with all my firepower on them (Shrouding is a kick in the beans).
            But I guess you’re right, in the end, there’s hope of a GK-free world… 🙂

            Best,
            -BT

  6. Shinkaze May 3, 2012 9:49 am
    #

    Very exciting stuff! Hopefully we can get the meta all shaken up

    • Reecius
      Reecius May 3, 2012 12:19 pm
      #

      It is fun to see people getting excited about a new concept, isn’t it? Definitely a cool idea and one I am excited to try out.

      • FacePuncher May 3, 2012 2:32 pm
        #

        I agree. I think the recent GK stint at Adepticon has people pissed. Would love to see more of this type of stuff.

        • Reecius
          Reecius May 3, 2012 2:59 pm
          #

          Yeah, and anything that smashes Grey Knights is a beautiful thing in my mind.

  7. FacePuncher May 3, 2012 2:29 pm
    #

    Obviously the tournament format matters a great deal for anything concerning troop selection, but I am telling you man, the 20 man blob of warriors with a spare homoculi is golden. FNP with an easily achieved 4+ cover is awesome. Super mobile and resilient. can easily score on two objectives and only cost 1 KP and very few army points.
    I have also noticed that, psychologically speaking, I am more likely to target things that I think I can kill. If there are 20 dudes (even if they are crappy T3) I will try and find something that is less of a commitment to annihilate and that might give me easier KPs. If I did target them and you immediately went to ground or something, I would be so pissed.
    Even having to bring them on the back edge doesn’t really punish the unit that much.

    • Reecius
      Reecius May 3, 2012 2:58 pm
      #

      I agree. My first instinct was the pimped out 20 man Warrior unit. With a phantasm and Syrabryte with HtH weapon, and some assault weapons, they can stay mobile and do some serious work in shooting and are not at all bad in assault. I think it is a unit that certainly bears some investigation.

  8. Black Blow Fly May 6, 2012 1:35 pm
    #

    I would take Reavers over Scourges…

    Faster
    Better in melee (if absolutely necessary)
    Higher toughness

    There are lots of units that can run down Scourges but not Reavers. I’d run a squad of 9 with 3x heat lance.

    Wyches are the awesome and you can take a big squad in a WWP portal army (15 – 20). Maybe Harlequins could also work in this style of army plus you can pack some fusion.

    I would probably stick with an Archon like Aaron uses over Lady Malys. Sure there is a lot of GK armies but I think the Archon is the better choice overall with PGL and a blaster (plus agonizer).

    @ Reecius – I’ll have my Draigowing at WGC if you would like to test your list. : )

    • Reecius
      Reecius May 7, 2012 9:26 am
      #

      I agree that in general, an Archon is better, which is why I chose her. Scourges have one big advantage though, they can deepstrike, which means they can deepstrike OR come out of the WWP. Awesome! I like Reavers too though, for the reasons you stated, which is why i went with a squad of both.

      Draigowing? NOOOOOO!! hahaha, I thought you were fighting the good fight and laying bugs?

    • Grovel3 May 23, 2012 8:44 pm
      #

      Actually, you’ll probably find it hard to run a 20 man Wych squad in a WWP list since their max squad size is 15.