Signals from the Frontline #655: LGT Recap and Space Marines Gone Wild!

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Show Notes

Date: 9-25-19

Intro

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News

  • This week’s GW pre-order is Beastgrave! You can grab it and the associated accessories from Frontline Gaming at a discount from our web-cart with FREE shipping options.

  • Next week we’ve got some cool releases coming out including the new Orruks and Free Cities Battletomes in addition to the small sized 40k rulebook.

  • Jain Zar is on the way and she looks fantastic! Can’t wait to talk more about all that Psychic Awakening will bring to the meta.

Upcoming ITC Events

 

 

Upcoming 40k ITC Events

Upcoming AoS ITC Events

October 2019

40k ITC Top 10

Click here for full rankings.

Rank First Name Last Name Points Events
1 Jim Vesal 1192.73 5 of 5
2 Richard Siegler 1114.71 5 of 5
3 Mani Cheema 1109.19 5 of 5
4 Nick Nanavati 1100.83 5 of 5
5 Chris Blackham 1097.65 5 of 5
6 Tj Lanigan 1095.57 5 of 5
7 John Lennon 1056.95 5 of 5
8 Nicholas Rose 1055.77 5 of 5
9 Matthew Allee 1044.85 5 of 5
10 Mark Perry 1020.98 5 of 5

40k ITC Hobby Track Top 10

Click here for full rankings.

Rank First Name Last Name Points Events
1 Jim Vesal 1107.21 5 of 5
2 Paul Winters 953.02 5 of 5
3 Lou Rollins 929.25 5 of 5
4 Matthew Bodnarchuk 906.71 5 of 5
5 Thomas Byrd 887 5 of 5
6 Jason Byrd 868.41 5 of 5
7 Colin Sherman 838.34 5 of 5
8 Conrad Carriker 834.04 5 of 5
9 Alexis Putt 824.54 5 of 5
10 Dominique Carette 819.83 4 of 5

AoS ITC Top 10

Click here for full rankings.

Rank First Name Last Name Points Events
1 Matthew Pashby 868.14 5 of 5
2 Christopher Bergman 848.93 5 of 5
3 James O’Brien 824.3 5 of 5
4 Alex Gonzalez 824.05 5 of 5
5 Joe Krier 823.76 5 of 5
6 Rahul Pereira 810.06 5 of 5
7 Edgar Hernandez 792.49 5 of 5
8 Jeremy Veysseire 756.19 4 of 5
9 Jack Ballard 747.61 5 of 5
10 Matt Obringer 741.92 5 of 5

AoS ITC Hobby Track Top 10

Click here for full rankings.

Rank First Name Last Name Points Events
1 Rich Waters 332.64 2 of 5
2 Matt Beasley 308.87 2 of 5
3 Jordan Duncan 258.29 2 of 5
4 Rahul Pereira 250.71 2 of 5
5 Jack Ballard 220.23 2 of 5
6 Mike Simeon 217.85 2 of 5
7 Joshua Pound 203.66 2 of 5
8 Jordan Watt 200.85 2 of 5
9 Ricky Fischer 192.87 1 of 5
10 Matthias Krushel 190.89 2 of 5

Shadespire ITC Top 10

Click here for full rankings.

Rank First Name Last Name Points Events
1 Ivan Cho 609.41 4 of 5
2 Tony Field 457.03 3 of 5
3 Jonathan Kolson 440.84 3 of 5
4 Philip Santa Maria 419 3 of 5
5 Scott Driessen 408.61 3 of 5
6 Kevin Cruz 401.64 3 of 5
7 Corey Sullivan 397.67 3 of 5
8 Daniel Velazquez 389.92 3 of 5
9 Robert Schuchardt 348.94 3 of 5
10 Matthew Martine 345.67 3 of 5

Kill Team ITC Top 10

Click here for full rankings.

Rank First Name Last Name Points Events
1 Alex Torbert 613.58 4 of 5
2 George Rollins 562.83 4 of 5
3 Janis Gilham 541.48 4 of 5
4 Michael T Holy 492.09 3 of 5
5 Matt Hoell 486.5 4 of 5
6 Frank Dalykas 453.18 3 of 5
7 Duane Boyd 419.33 3 of 5
8 Tyler Hill 417.79 3 of 5
9 Ryan Hebb 409.28 3 of 5
10 Mary Newton 383.2 3 of 5

Tactics Corner

  • Space Marines discussion.

Completed Commissions

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About Reecius

The fearless leader of the intrepid group of gamers gone retailers at Frontline Gaming!

27 Responses to “Signals from the Frontline #655: LGT Recap and Space Marines Gone Wild!”

  1. Avatar
    Zweischneid September 26, 2019 5:04 am #

    “Europe still doesn’t use magic boxes”

    That’s kinda putting the cart before the horse. Maybe that would help in the short-run, but ultimately no amount of weird, giant LoS-block atrocities or magic boxes, or LoS-block house-rules will infinitely stem off the escalating lethality of the game.

    From the very first Codex in 2017, each Codex seems to dial up the offensive output far more significantly than the defensive abilities of armies. More re-rolls, more double-activations, more, +1 to hit/wound, more shots, more exploding 6s …

    … and nowhere near the equivalent re-rolls for saves, -1 to hit (yes, not enough, despite Alaitoc)/wound, -1 activations, exploding saves, etc.., etc..

    At the end of the day, (GW internal) playtesters need to sit down and re-balance the game so that .. dunno, a mono-Kroot army or a footslogging Bloodletter horde or whatever can fight a nu-Ultramarines Aggressors list or that Iron Hands Repulsor castle on a “White Dwarf Battle Report”-table with GW terrain rules in a straight up GW mission (e.g. EW pure end-of-game-scoring or whatever) and come out with roughly 50% wins over .. dunno … 100 games or so. And also both armies should have a handful of units turn 6 and 7 to play the game on average.

    Tournaments building ever more silly terrain and ginormous LoS-blockers might extend the edition’s live span a little bit, not quite unlike FLG Faqs extended the life span of 7th Ed. a little bit. But ultimately, it’s fighting the symptoms, not the illness and not sustainable.

    • Reecius
      Reecius September 26, 2019 6:24 am #

      I think you have a misconception of what a magic box is. Size has no bearing on it, it’s just a ruin with four walls and a roof. The point is that it hides you from all angles and some units can’t get at you inside of it. It allows for a way to totally hide from many units and it does help mitigate the lethality of the game, 100% which is why we use them. They really do help.

      • Avatar
        Zweischneid September 26, 2019 6:32 am #

        It’s a ruin that blocks LOS. (4 walls or not).

        A ruin kinda “by definition” has holes to look (and shoot) through. If it’s an “unruined” buildings with walls intact, it’s not a ruin.

        It’s a terrain-type created by using “un-ruined” LOS-blocking terrain GW doesn’t sell as “ruins” (but since its not GW terrain, it doesn’t come with rules such as Bastions or other non-ruin terrain GW sells).

        Which is fine. If it helps curb some of the game’s problems for now, it’ll do. The ideal from a game design perspective should still be to have the game playable as presented in, say, the White Dwarf and the Rulebook, e.g. with GW ruins build per instructions and un-converted using the RAW rules.

        As it isn’t, sure, people resort to all kinds of workarounds. Non-GW FAQs in 7th. Non-GW terrain in 8th. But that’s not addressing the core-problem.

        • Avatar
          Zweischneid September 26, 2019 6:33 am #

          But yeah, choosing to use the “ruins” rules for those types of enclosed (and intact) buildings FLG sells (among others), and not, say, the “bastion” rules or whatever, is kinda arbitrary at the end of the day.

          • Reecius
            Reecius September 26, 2019 6:58 am
            #

            Eh, we’re getting lost in the weeds here. Semantics aside, if you had a building you classified as a ruin per the BRB and it had four walls and a roof, that is exactly how it would be played RAW. Using fortifications in a matched play game would be a bit silly as they cost points, etc. I see your point but I think the fairly obvious answer is to use the ruins rules.

            Regardless, they do help. Flyer spam becomes less crazy, things like Knights and vehicles such as Repulsors, etc. have their power curbed considerably. You can charge units without getting overwatched, etc. etc. They add a level of tactical depth that really improves the game and increases unit diversity, IMO. It also makes some unit types not an auto-include as they may find themselves in a situation where they can’t dominate the table in every single game, which is good. It discourages spam.

          • Avatar
            abusepuppy September 26, 2019 10:44 pm
            #

            Flyer spam _really_ isn’t the problem with the game right now. I don’t think it’s a top-8 level list at this point.

          • Reecius
            Reecius September 27, 2019 9:09 am
            #

            What, lol?

            First and second place at LGT: Flyer Spam.
            First at LGT invite: Flyer Spam.
            Final table at NOVA invite: Flyer army.

            Future major problem: Iron Hands flyer army.

          • Avatar
            C-Stock September 27, 2019 11:04 am
            #

            So basically exploity/overpowered lists are what’s needed to compete with space marines. The solution given is more terrain, then more and more terrain.

            But what if the space marine army uses the terrain to their advantage too? How does that make things balanced?

          • Reecius
            Reecius September 27, 2019 11:46 am
            #

            Most of the units people are worried about right now with Marines cannot go into a ruin: Flyers, Repulsors, etc. So yes, they would help.

            If playing vs. say White Scars? Not so much but they’re a MUCH easier army to deal with.

          • Avatar
            rvd1ofakind September 30, 2019 12:13 am
            #

            Wow, isn’t AP doing what he accuses me of doing?

            “Uh… what’cha talking about, my army, isn’t that good, honest… uh… super recent major wins and top 8s are flukes… heheheh….”

            At least the things I advocate for don’t win anything except maybe a 3rd place once a year on a random GT if it’s a skew list with favorable match-ups.

          • Avatar
            abusepuppy September 30, 2019 8:41 am
            #

            If I were doing what you do, I would be complaining that every unit in the Craftworlds codex is completely unplayable and that mathematically, any price above 34pts for the Hemlock Wraithfighter is completely unreasonable and impossible.

            I’m aware flyers have taken some tournaments recently. I don’t think that will continue to be the case once Space Marines actually take their place in the meta. Maybe I’m wrong, but I see no reasonable way for Eldar Flyers to beat a good IH or WS list- and they already have problems with several other matchups that are currently popular.

          • Reecius
            Reecius September 30, 2019 9:28 am
            #

            See, I am of the opinion that the IH Air Force will be the really powerful build. It will be a mixed army, but their flyers are insanely good.

          • Avatar
            abusepuppy September 30, 2019 11:43 pm
            #

            IH may very well be, but that’s an army that functions wildly differently than the Eldar version and has access to a completely different set of tools. Magic boxes don’t really mitigate Space Marines because they have access to the powerful infantry units needed to clear them.

          • Reecius
            Reecius October 1, 2019 7:43 am
            #

            They mitigate the main problem child units, though. That’s key as it gives you some way to counter-play them.

      • Avatar
        AlamoMelt September 26, 2019 6:11 pm #

        Possibly odd question: does the roof come off so someone can place the models inside, or are they on top? If on top, how is it distinguished that they’re inside instead of…on the roof?

        • Avatar
          abusepuppy September 26, 2019 10:44 pm #

          Typically by agreement with the opponent, i.e. “I’m putting these models on top but they are on the second floor, I just don’t want to deal with reaching down into there. Does that work for you?”

  2. Avatar
    C-Stock September 27, 2019 11:00 am #

    Zweischneid is really right and the community is really feeling it right now. Power creep is out of control and the quality of the gaming experience is degrading fast.

    • Reecius
      Reecius September 27, 2019 11:48 am #

      Time will tell on that. Remember, this edition has seen TRULY dominating armies come and go already and it continues to grow and thrive. Give the Marines time to settle in, the majority of them aren’t even out yet. I agree that IH will be an issue but the others will be manageable, IMO. Time will tell but there’s a lot of Chicken Little syndrome going on right now.

  3. Avatar
    Danny McDevitt September 27, 2019 2:16 pm #

    Much better episode this week – Pablo and Jason were a little down the doom and salt hole last week and I had to turn off the episode. Even though I like both of them.

    • Reecius
      Reecius September 29, 2019 11:47 am #

      Glad you liked it =)

  4. Avatar
    Duz_ September 28, 2019 5:55 am #

    I feel like the seize the initiative thing is another that depends on how intensely you play the game
    At higher levels the removal of random aspects always seems to be preferred

    However the mechanic itself stops people deploying overly aggressively as there is a chance they may lose their first turn advantage. Especially alpha strike lists.

    Not everyone who attends events spends weeks deploying and playing first turn and then re-racking to optimise their deployments

    And generally when I win my seize roll I take full opportunity of that
    Going first is still very powerful

    • Reecius
      Reecius September 29, 2019 11:46 am #

      Fair point but I seriously have never seen anyone, competitive or casual, that has enjoyed being seized on, lol. There’s never been a moment of: wow, that sure was fun!

      It’s just a bad mechanic, IMO. Playing without it was so much more enjoyable.

      • Avatar
        abusepuppy September 29, 2019 6:35 pm #

        People don’t enjoy failing saves, either, but that doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t have to roll saves for your units.

        • Reecius
          Reecius September 30, 2019 7:19 am #

          My point was people talk about it being cool in theory but no one enjoys losing a game because of it.I honestly don’t think it adds anything good to matched play games.

  5. Avatar
    Vaclav September 30, 2019 4:06 am #

    Hey Reecius! Thank you for shoutout! It was great to finally meet you and you and Pavel both looked like you were enjoying the game! Great to have a beer with you man 🙂 Cheers!

    • Reecius
      Reecius September 30, 2019 7:18 am #

      Indeed it was a pleasure to meet you as well!

  6. Michael Corr
    Michael Corr October 3, 2019 3:38 am #

    Played my White Scars in a tournament at the weekend. You are right Reece, turn 3 onwards is brutal with them! I really did not expect them to be that strong with the combat ability, but it was incredible in my games.

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