Art of War Bonus Episode Steven Box on Cheating and Sportsmanship

Join Nick Nanavati and John DeMaris as they discuss cheating and sportsmanship in competitive 40k. We discuss how we perceive things and then dive into possible solutions. Steve recently posted an excellent video on this subject which is linked below.


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6 Responses to “Art of War Bonus Episode Steven Box on Cheating and Sportsmanship”

  1. Sean Pallas
    Sean Pallas September 26, 2019 8:42 am #

    Around minute 28, it was being discussed how much ‘hate’ the general 40k community feels towards cheaters and it was suggested it’s in part because the cheaters are not penalized. The example is given that in rugby, when a player is thrown off the pitch – you’ll still get a beer with the guy at the end.

    But maybe I’m misinformed, but how much money does a rugby player have invested into playing the game?

    At some level, I think the financial investment that the average 40k player has into the game contributes to the reaction against cheating. It’s not completely unrealistic to imagine that a player has close to a thousand dollars of miniatures (that they may have spent a 100 hours painting and building) only to have their opponent intentionally cheat when they finally get to the table?

    Your average player isn’t Nick Nanavati who has enough store credit from RT wins stocked up to buy three armies at any given moment or gets to attend 10+ GTs a year.

    I’ve only had one experience where I know an opponent actively cheated in a tournament setting – but I know the money aspect contributed to my frustration.

    • Avatar
      Brother Crimson September 26, 2019 3:26 pm #

      I dont think it had anything to do with the financial investment. I can’t speak for rugby but for hockey league its easily 500$ of equipment (double for goalies) and about 300$ per season to play at non-professional levels. Sometimes you have to pay extra for special events or tournaments.

      Also it depends on the type of infraction, if someone makes a really dirty play that hits someone on the head and can cause injury, we wont take a beer with him.

      If someone does simple holding or similar, it goes in the box we get power play and at the end of the day I doesnt matter, he tried to cheat his way through, got caught and penalised for it.

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    Brandon September 26, 2019 3:25 pm #

    Dont forget about plane tickets and hotel costs…

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    David Noonan September 26, 2019 8:24 pm #

    I’d pay an extra $5 or $10 per tournament — heck, maybe more — if the money went to the judges. Wouldn’t even blink.

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    Charlie A. September 27, 2019 4:13 am #

    This episode was the first AoW episode that John spoke to a considerable length, and I loved his perspective. He brought a lot of great ideas to the discussion, and the episode benefitted from it. Like Davide suggested, I’d be willing to throw in an extra 5-$10 to cover judges costs if it resulted in a higher standard (potentially even certification) and more, high-quality judges at an event. What are other ways we can start taking action to get towards the ideal?

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    David VanOoteghem September 30, 2019 9:25 pm #

    The reference to Chris Pikula from team DeadGuy resonated with me. I met him and David Price at Pro Tour Atlanta 1996. They were class guys and I am not surprised Chris went after cheaters.One of the other issues with early pro magic was that Wizards thought everyone would play to win. However, at later stages of the tourney it would be an advantage to draw with an opponent and avoid a loss. Intentional draws were not allowed however so you had a lot of weird player interactions involving draws and not everything was on the up and up. Eventually Wizards ruled you could intentional draw but you had to be good at math to figure out the tie breakers. Fortunately 40K tourneys are using battle points and you need to earn points to advance so there is no real advantage to drawing intentionally. John I too have a 6 digit DCI number so those references really took me back int he way back machine. Great Podcast. Keep it up.

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