Signals from the Frontline #614: SoCal Open Recap and Ork Discussion

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Show Notes

Date: 10-31-18

Intro

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News

  • We’ve got a brand new FLG Mat available for you, Battlefield! It is available at a 20% discount through November 13th, 2018.

  • The SoCal Open has come and gone and it was great! We had a great turnout and a ton of fun!

  • 40k saw some awesome action and Brandon Grant took it again this year with his Castellan+IG army, and Cooper Waddell took second, going undefeated with Nids/GSC and taking Renaissance Man. Alex Aquila got third, technically also going undefeated  Andy Trimlett took best appearance with his Orks.
    • In the top 10 we had:

  • PJ Pants won the AoS event with Flesh Eater Courts, Kurt Roper took second with Daughters of Khaine, and third was a three way tie between Alex Gonzalez with Nighthaunts, Greg Goade’s Daughters of Khaine, and Matthew Pashby’s Idoneth Deepkin.

 

Upcoming ITC Events

Upcoming 40k ITC Events

Upcoming AoS ITC Events

40k ITC Top 10

Click here for full rankings.

Rank First Name Last Name Points Events
1 Nick Nanavati 755.16 5 of 5
2 Mike Porter 744.54 5 of 5
3 Matt Root 694.28 5 of 5
4 Trent Northington 692.04 5 of 5
5 Joshua Death 651.29 5 of 5
6 Archon Skari 650.81 5 of 5
7 John Lennon 627.22 5 of 5
8 Leigh Abbey 626.46 5 of 5
9 Andrew Gonyo 625.42 5 of 5
10 Nick Rose 620.54 5 of 5

40k ITC Hobby Track Top 10

Click here for full rankings.

Rank First Name Last Name Points Events
1 Matthew Bodnarchuk 476.65 5 of 5
2 Lou Rollins 422.14 4 of 5
3 Mike Genoni 403.04 4 of 5
4 David Danuser 381.96 5 of 5
5 Antonio Cedeno 357.1 5 of 5
6 Jeffrey Merrick 348.7 4 of 5
7 Shawn Prosser 332.62 5 of 5
8 Nick Gower 327.37 4 of 5
9 Eric Dionne 309.01 3 of 5
10 Cheryl Matthynssens 297.89 4 of 5

AoS ITC Top 10

Click here for full rankings.

Rank First Name Last Name Points Events
1 Joe Krier 531.97 5 of 5
2 James Thomas 446.05 4 of 5
3 Matthew Pashby 439.81 4 of 5
4 Mathew Jones 439.17 4 of 5
5 Joshua Harvey 427.39 4 of 5
6 Steven Hyche 419.67 4 of 5
7 Ken Eubanks 417.31 4 of 5
8 Alex Gonzalez 415.73 4 of 5
9 James Tapia 406.67 4 of 5
10 Jarrett Zazuetta 401.56 4 of 5

AoS ITC Hobby Track Top 10

Click here for full rankings.

Rank First Name Last Name Points Events
1 Sid Singh 298.4 3 of 5
2 Philip Verduzco 270.45 3 of 5
3 Josh Lara 260.24 3 of 5
4 Ben Nelson 239.3 3 of 5
5 Joseph Halfacre 173.36 2 of 5
6 Jon Christenson 161.9 2 of 5
7 Frank DeLoach 158.62 2 of 5
8 Scott Reed 155.07 2 of 5
9 Joshua Harvey 150.5 2 of 5
10 Josh Greenfield 124.35 2 of 5

Shadespire ITC Top 10

Click here for full rankings.

Rank First Name Last Name Points Events
1 Mike Corse 333.98 3 of 5
2 Andrew Everhart 333.63 3 of 5
3 Brandon Ulick 331.53 3 of 5
4 Matt Everhart 330.9 3 of 5
5 Tony Field 329.89 3 of 5
6 Michael Rundles 329.17 3 of 5
7 Britt Davis 317.72 3 of 5
8 Mike Melody 303.66 3 of 5
9 Adam Brazzell 299.67 3 of 5
10 Josue Ibarra 299.46 3 of 5

Tactics Corner

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36 Responses to “Signals from the Frontline #614: SoCal Open Recap and Ork Discussion”

  1. Avatar
    Embrace Your Inner Geek October 31, 2018 12:18 pm #

    Hey guys – who do I contact about updates to the ITC rankings. There’s an event that’s submitted but not updated yet. Want to make sure that it’s not missing any information.

  2. Avatar
    rvd1ofakind November 1, 2018 12:41 am #

    The painboy works on Grots though. Infantry, which grots have.

    I think it’s crazy that people are thinking of ditching them. Tide of traitors, biggest blob for the +1 attack buffs, morale immunity for nearby orks as long as you have a big blob, can dajump and charge 8” with full re-rolls, troops to fill batallions and get obsec. They can now also take 3 free tanbusta bombs, they get other clan traits, stratagems, etc. I think they got way more than +1 pts.

    • Avatar
      rvd1ofakind November 1, 2018 12:42 am #

      Second paragraph is about Boyz ofc

      • Avatar
        abusepuppy November 1, 2018 12:54 am #

        Yeah, Boyz are still insanely good, even at 7pts.

      • Reecius
        Reecius November 1, 2018 9:00 am #

        Yeah, I said that one wrong. I also insinuated Killa Kans could use Clan Kultures which is inaccurate. As stated, it’s been a while since I really played them so I am getting back up to speed on them, myself.

  3. Avatar
    abusepuppy November 1, 2018 12:54 am #

    Seems a bit premature to be calling the Knights meta dead when a very standard Castellan list took 1st place at the event. Knights are very much still alive and well, although with the coming of Orks that may not be true for very much longer; still, for the time being they are a force to be reckoned with.

    What the Sisters codex will do remains to be seen, but I don’t think it’s gonna be a hard counter to Orks in any particular fashion. Sisters are a shooting army, and a relatively short-ranged one at that; Orks are not particularly scared of anything that needs to be within 12″ of them to do its work.

    • Reecius
      Reecius November 1, 2018 8:59 am #

      Knights aren’t dead at all, did we say that? They just won’t play the way they did. hey’re still awesome.

      Orks though, I think will have the counter to Eldar. Time will tell, of course, but as someone that plays both the current “meta” Ynnari list will have to adapt or die when they play Orks, IMO. They don’t have the ability to screen against the lightening fast Orks well enough or withstand their melee and most lists I see don’t have enough shots to get through them.

      I could be wrong of course but that is my prediction.

  4. Avatar
    Zweischneid November 1, 2018 7:47 am #

    “Hey.. Ynnari are too good. Whish they were changed completely. Extra-activations just break the game.”

    2 minutes later

    “Look, now Ork codex double-moving, double-shooting, double-fighting awesomeness all around!!!”

    Lol.

    • Reecius
      Reecius November 1, 2018 9:02 am #

      I see your (sarcastically made) point and fair enough.

      I should have been more clear, Ynnari do these things utilizing few to no resources whereas other armies have to burn a lot of CP to make it happen. It’s a big inequity and the stats bear it out. I could have made that point more clearly.

      • Avatar
        Zweischneid November 1, 2018 9:15 am #

        Not doubting Ynnari aren’t good, but they do give up a lot for it.

        If Dark Reapers just double shoot for 2CP like Hive Guard (Obliterators, now Orks, whatever, etc..), Yvraine would just hand out double-moves like Swarm Lord and Shining Spears would double-fight and/or double move like Genestealers, but in return they don’t lose Craftworld traits (e.g. perhaps saving CP in turn by having -1 built in, rather than lighting-reflexes, etc.), Battle Focus, etc.. could still take different warlord traits, not have as many points-of-failure with psychic powers (deny, etc..) just doing it far more reliably (if perhaps less often) with stratagems, it’d be mostly a wash.

        And other armies save resources too. Ion Bulwark is effectively 18 CP “saved” on a Castellan in a 6 round game (not even counting the utility of playing Rotate Ion Shields on top of it or on another knight).

        That’s a lot of double activations Ynnari have to pull off successfully to draw even, not even counting the additional resources in psykers, lost chapter traits, etc.. they need to invest to play.

        • Reecius
          Reecius November 1, 2018 9:35 am #

          Sure, but the data clearly shows they’re over-performing by a large margin. The combination of boosts they get–Soulburst being chief among them–is causing them to be significantly stronger than all of the other armies.

          • Avatar
            Zweischneid November 1, 2018 3:12 pm
            #

            Yes. Not saying they don’t need adjusting.

            Just saying what makes them strong isn’t unique to them.

            Double activations of all kinds are frequent in all armies, and a rather poor game-design choice in all cases.

            – They allow players to spike the efficiency of their most effective and efficient armies.
            – They allow players to double-dip into buffs/debuffs, be it Precience/VotLW, Guide/Doom, Red Rampage/Might of Heroes, or whatever, in ways the resource cost of those powers don’t account for.
            – They reduce further reduce the interactivity/reaction ability of players, which is already limited in a 5-6 turn game of IGO-UGO.

            Whether it’s Ynnari, in-built stuff like Swarmlord or double-shooting Leman Russes, Stratagems, etc.., I think they are a large factor in the rather one-sided arms race 40K has seen over the last year in the transition from Index to Codex, where the offensive side of things, for the most part, has far outpaced the defensive side of things (with too few exceptions like -1 to hit armies or insane invuls. like Prophets of Flesh or Knights).

            Ynnari highlight the problem most notably, but it’s a systemic problem in game design of introducing double activations that IMO goes beyond Ynnari and will pop up as a problem, even if Ynnari get nerfed out of the most immediate spotlight.

          • Reecius
            Reecius November 1, 2018 3:41 pm
            #

            Again, fair points.

            So long as every army has access to some sort of double action mechanics and it is kept in relative check it starts to balance out although you are right that it allows you to really crank up efficiency.

            We’ll see how it shakes down as the last few Dexes come out and everyone has a Dex, plus Chapter Approved to shake things up and hopefully give some of the weaker units a boost.

          • Avatar
            Zweischneid November 2, 2018 12:38 am
            #

            yes and no.

            In my personal humble opinion, I think Codexes have been stacking it too much on the offensive side.

            – Units like Russes, Fire Prisms and now Battlewagon variants shooting twice, but no units taking half the hits if they move less.

            – Lots of +1 to hit or wound like VoTW, the Tau strat, now Moster Hunters, but not nearly enough -1 to balance it out.

            – Lots of double-fighting, double shooting, double-moving strats, but not a single -1 activation strat to balance it in the game (except Vect, I suppose).

            Obviously not everything needs an exact mirror, but the offensive vs. defensive capacities of armies has definitely shifted strongly towards the former since index-8th edition, and it’s inevitably creating an ever more “glasshammer 40K” dominated by blow-outs and a few extreme defense-concept armies.

          • Reecius
            Reecius November 2, 2018 8:03 am
            #

            I honestly don’t think you need an equal amount of defensive buffs to even things out, personally. 8th made a conscious move towards higher lethality to avoid units that were ultra hard to kill as we had in 5th, and especially in 6th and 7th. It speeds the game up and is more fun than having units that just don’t die, which is not so fun, IMO. I think it is more satisfying to set up a big play and smash something than to shoot or punch another unit and have little to nothing happen. That’s why I am fine with more of an emphasis on offense than defense as it creates a more cinematic and exciting game. Even just the -1 to be hit is a bit much and factions that have that as an option tend to be the version of that faction seen most commonly such as with Alaitoc Eldar, Alpha Legion Chaos, etc. I definitely like having some defensive buffs in the game, they just don’t need to be on par with the offense.

            I do agree though that you need all factions to have some potent offensive combos for it to be fair.

          • Avatar
            Zweischneid November 3, 2018 12:23 am
            #

            I disagree.

            Just upping the offensive side of things doesn’t balance things, IMO.

            It just aggravates the problem of who get’s the first turn to squeeze in all those multiple activations of killyness.

            It also reduces the interactivity in a 5-6 turn IGO-UGO format, where there are only 5 or so turns to “react” anyhow.

            It’s a premier reason stuff like power armour feels increasingly redundant. Upping their offensive output only goes so far, unless they are .. at the extreme end of the trend, pointed equally to guardsman because the defensive side is next-to-useless.

            Sure, 8th made the conscious decision to be more lethal than 7th, already at the index. Maybe designers thought it wasn’t lethal enough in index-8th, which is why they upped the lethality again, without defence keeping pace.

            But a), the trend is unsustainable in the long run, obvious, and b) is a major factor why only “extreme defensive concepts” like super-hordes or super-defensive denial style lists, whether it’s stacking -1s or T8 4++ or even 3++ all around are the only things still cutting it.

            The “battle-report” style Marine or Necron armies or whatever have clearly been out-inflated by the (mainly damage-side) codex creep.

  5. Avatar
    rvd1ofakind November 1, 2018 9:42 am #

    Oh god. 15 lootas mobbed up with 10 lootas, re-rolling 1s, more dakka, double shoot. OH GOD.

    • Reecius
      Reecius November 1, 2018 10:05 am #

      Yeah, it is savage. You have to try and kill the Lootas first.

      • Avatar
        rvd1ofakind November 1, 2018 10:14 am #

        Well they can hide behind LoS and move out (more dakka cancels -1 to hit for moving). So they’ll shoot first most of the time and then you have to kill 60+ 5++ 6+++ gretchin to get to them lol (in my world I make all the 2+ to pass wound off to gretchin :p). Plus range 48”

        • Reecius
          Reecius November 1, 2018 10:18 am #

          You don’t even have to hide, just stand behind Grots. And when trying to clear them out, shoot the Lootas and let the Grots die to Mortal Wounds.

  6. Avatar
    rvd1ofakind November 1, 2018 11:26 am #

    Alright. Does Painboy and Grotshield stack? Like if you take a wound on Lootas, you go 6+++, then 2+ to pass it to the grot. Big FAQ prevents double feel no pain unit abilities. However the grot thing is not really FNP but more of a “look out sir”(it’s relevant because the 3 examples given are all FNPs) and ofc it isn’t a unit ability, it’s a stratagem.

    • Avatar
      Dakkath November 1, 2018 3:57 pm #

      I *think* the way it works is you try to pass wounds off, then save.

    • Avatar
      abusepuppy November 3, 2018 4:43 pm #

      It depends on whose turn it is. When multiple effects would trigger at the same time, the player whose turn it is gets to decide which order the apply in- so your enemy can force you to to take your Painboy save first and then pass along to Grots, or make you do the Grots first and then get your Painboy save, depending on which they think is more advantageous. (Typically, they will want to do the latter.)

      But both abilities are applicable, as they are different kinds of rolls and can thus be stacked even with the new FAQs.

  7. Avatar
    AJShadowhawk November 2, 2018 10:51 am #

    Is it possible to get Lou’s Deathwatch army list?

    • Reecius
      Reecius November 2, 2018 11:12 am #

      With a subscription to the BCP app you can see any list in their database. It’s only like $5 a month, or I think $50 for a year or something like that. It’s quite reasonable.

      • Avatar
        AJShadowhawk November 2, 2018 9:08 pm #

        I know it’s not much of an excuse, but I live in Dubai and will be moving back to India very soon, so have not gotten a subscription because of that.

    • Avatar
      Marius Xerxes November 2, 2018 1:01 pm #

      Most of the lists are posted in various threads on Dakka already.

  8. Avatar
    AllHail November 2, 2018 4:27 pm #

    These 4 wall special LOS blocking buildings I’m hearing about, did players have any warning before the event that that kind of “terrain” was going to be used? Seems to heavily favor infantry and especially infantry with mortars.

    • Reecius
      Reecius November 2, 2018 4:50 pm #

      They’re just ruins that happen to have 4 walls and a roof. You use the rules from the BRB.

    • Avatar
      AllHail November 2, 2018 5:13 pm #

      I thought the actual ruins models had windows/slits that provided LOS, but there were special rules in effect that say no LOS for the first floor of the ruins. Most ruins have gaps/windows don’t they?

      I can’t tell from the pictures if the windows are painted on or actual holes in the building.

      • Reecius
        Reecius November 2, 2018 5:45 pm #

        Yeah, that is the one ITC house rule so to speak. We count all first level windows/etc. as blocking LoS. But, that is for all ruins, not just ours and that has been a rule since 8th came out, so no surprises there.

        We do that because in 8th you really need to be able to hide. Most ruins, especially GW ruins (of which we have literally hundreds built and painted) block little to no actual LoS making them very poor for 8th ed. That rule allows you to not have to go and modify all of your existing terrain but still provide adequate coverage. So again, there were no surprises in that regard.

  9. Avatar
    AllHail November 2, 2018 6:17 pm #

    Nice to know about the ruins, on an unrelated note I see in one of these pictures there are Eldar flyers with their bases sideways. Isn’t that a type of modeling for advantage? You can move forward and block more ground movement with the bases sideways like that….

    • Avatar
      Marius Xerxes November 3, 2018 2:19 am #

      You could just turn the flier sideways if you wanted anyway. All weapons shoot 360 degrees in this edition so no advantage there.

      Plus, CWE Fliers get to turn 90 degrees before and after their move so its not much of a mobility benefit either.

      My guess is that people just like the look of the base like that or are used to seeing it that way from other large (Knights) models anyway.

      • Avatar
        AllHail November 3, 2018 11:53 am #

        I forgot they could turn 90 degrees again after the move with their special ability, I guess it doesn’t matter much then.

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