Signals from the Frontline #581: ITC 2017 Regional Champs and Plans for the Future

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Show Notes

Date: 2-14-18


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  • The BAO 2018 sold out in a little over a day and a half! If you want to be put on the wait list for this event, please click here and fill out the form. This looks to be a great event again this year and we can’t wait to see you all there!

  • We’ve got a very special and very exciting interview later today on our Twitch Channel, featuring Alex Fennel and Marc Merrill, co-founder of Riot Games, makers of League of Legends. Marc awarded Alex a $5,000 sportsmanship award for his outstanding attitude in the face of an unpleasant circumstance at the LVO 40k Championships semi-finals game which Alex then turned around and donated to a Children’s Hospital and got his employer to match the donation! But it doesn’t stop there. Upon hearing about this display of generosity, Games Workshop then also made a contribution to the effort and matched the $5,000 to the Children’s Hospital for a grand total of $15,000! Be sure to tune in for the interview at 2:30pm PST to hear Marc and Alex discuss the incident and their motivations with Reece.

  • Make sure to stay tuned for an interview at the end of this cast with Nick Nanavati, LVO and ITC 40k Champion for the 2017 season as he talks about what it takes to win it all!

  • Forgeworld has released Beta rules for many of their Adeptus Custodes units! Check them out.
    • The Caladius Grav-tank, precursor to the popular Sicaran Battle Tank, and frontline battle tank of the Legio Custodes.
    • The Coronus Grav-carrier, a massive transport capable of traversing even the most hostile of battlefields.
    • The Contemptor-Achillus Dreadnought, a close combat pattern of the popular Contemptor, armed with a Dreadnought-sized version of the guardian spear!
    • The Contemptor-Exemplar, designed to represent the unique weapons available to the Adeptus Custodes.

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About Reecius

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36 Responses to “Signals from the Frontline #581: ITC 2017 Regional Champs and Plans for the Future”

  1. V1234 February 14, 2018 1:47 pm #

    Yeah, people playing slow and eating up your playtime is annoying. The premise of playing a full game out for more points idea sounds cool.

    Did you read through the Forgeworld Beta rules? What do you think of them?

    • Reecius February 14, 2018 5:36 pm #

      Yeah, we’re working on a solution for slow-play, batting around lots of ideas.

      • T-rez February 15, 2018 12:02 am #

        I personally wouldnt mind matches being extended to 3-4hrs each. When setting time aside for a tourney the whole day is bascially given to it anyways. Whats a couple more hours?

        • Reecius February 16, 2018 9:59 am #

          4 hours would only leave time for 2 rounds a day.

          3 works but that is a loooong day. If we started at 10am we’d be done at 9pm.

          If we started at 9am we’d be done at 8pm. That doesn’t leave much time for social things like dinner, etc. You may be able to cut a half hour out of that by trimming down on breaks and lunch but that is about it.

          • Sean February 18, 2018 3:55 pm

            Chess clock are really one of the only answers. I think 3 hour rounds with chess clocks should give people loads of time. And chess clocks limit the amount of bonus time some people stretch the judge staff with at the end of rounds. It’s easier to enforce a hard dice down when both players have had equal time.

            The thing about just increasing time is that humans naturally fill the time they have. Think about all the times people procrastinate finishing work or school papers until the last minute. It’s a natural human response to time. In the etc with 4 hour rounds there are still occasionally games that do not reach their natural conclusion. Chess clocks are really the only scientifically fair way to distribute the time.

            3 hour rounds divided 1 hour and 25 minutes each leaving 10 minutes to quickly pick powers and missions points at the start. Deployment is on the clock. Boom done.

      • V1234 February 15, 2018 2:02 pm #

        How about thoughts on the beta rules?

  2. Doty February 14, 2018 7:58 pm #

    hey Reese, I just wanted to say that I’m looking fwd. to seeing your Raptors force in action vs. the new Custodes! Have you tried running any Primaris units for them??

    • Reecius February 16, 2018 10:01 am #

      I did get to play my Raptors against them and it made for a challenging and fun game. I do not have any Primaris Marines in my Raptors army at this time though, no. I do have a Primaris Army the studio is working on but that project has stalled a bit as we play catch up after LVO.

  3. rvd1ofakind February 14, 2018 8:43 pm #

    We’ve done it! In the movement rule it says something like “Move x inches in ANY DIRECTION”

    Also 15k is insane. Everyone who’s involved is great. Special thanks goes out to Tony, who is the one who started the whole thing. Basically Tony donated the 15k. :p

    • Reecius February 16, 2018 10:02 am #

      The 15k is a tremendously generous donation.

  4. Ishagu February 15, 2018 4:15 am #

    A Solution to slow playing would be to penalise the players in any game that doesn’t reach turn 5, with a focus on people who bring armies with large number of models.

    Ultimately people who bring massive horde armies and are’t able to play them quickly SHOULD be penalised. At tournament I frequent I make sure my armies are quick to play. I’m not a fast player so I only bring armies with around 35 models or so, making sure my turns are fast. Sure, a horde of 160 fearless models might be competitive, but if you can’t finish a full turn in 15 minutes then you shouldn’t be playing it.

    • Reecius February 16, 2018 10:02 am #

      Yeah, we’re batting around lots of ideas but we keep coming back to chess clocks as the truly fair solution. Implementation is the difficult part.

    • Nogle February 16, 2018 10:55 am #

      I’d rather go carrot than stick. If there are points based incentives for finishing a certain amount of turns, players that are shooting for Max points will make sure they complete enough turns.

      • Reecius February 19, 2018 12:49 pm #

        That is the system we currently use =)

  5. FearTheRipper February 15, 2018 8:47 am #

    Any word on the new terrain sets?

    • Reecius February 15, 2018 4:21 pm #

      Just waiting for the marketing material on them!

  6. Fearfire February 15, 2018 11:42 am #

    Hi Guys, nice show.

    When will the ITC rankings be updated to show the 2018 tournaments that have already happened? I know it must be a ton of work, just wondering.


    • Reecius February 15, 2018 12:16 pm #

      Should be very soon, the BCP guys are busting their asses to get it all updated.

  7. Nogle February 16, 2018 10:48 am #

    If a game was worth 20 points max(just as an example), what if there was a cap on the amount of points you could score each turn (such as 4 or 5) no matter how many you actually scored. That way if your game doesn’t get past 2 or 3 turns, you can’t max out

  8. ScottB February 16, 2018 11:06 am #

    Would it make sense to allow people to earn enough battle points in games to possibly catch some one who scores low and wins after 3 or 4 rounds?

    • Reecius February 19, 2018 12:50 pm #

      That is the system we’ve been looking at but the math has proven difficult to work out equitably.

  9. Agent X February 16, 2018 2:54 pm #

    If a game doesn’t reach a natural conclusion by turn X (4, 5 or 6 your call) it is considered incomplete with a max score capped at some arbitrary value regardless of actual points scored.

    Pair that with a completed game bonus so that losing a completed game is comparable to the incomplete max score.

    • Reecius February 19, 2018 12:50 pm #

      We are looking at systems that function like this but so far keep finding bit problems with the math.

  10. Chris February 16, 2018 3:29 pm #

    I always liked the way Warmachine did Deathclock and I think that would fit into 40k well. If a round is 3 hours then each player puts 1.5 hours on their clock. They can use up as much of that clock per turn that they want, but once its gone your game is done. Warmchine goes pretty hard core with it where you lose the game if you run out on the clock. 40K could potentially do something else than an auto loss if it is incorporated.

    • Reecius February 19, 2018 12:51 pm #

      We keep coming back to Chess clocks, too. I think it is likely the only truly equitable solution but it is also difficult to implement.

  11. Duz_ February 16, 2018 3:52 pm #

    What about timed deployments?
    20mins to review lists, define terrain, determine pre game traits and deploy.

    If you dont deploy within the time you dont get to use the remaining units. If at any point you dont have any models on the table you lose (to limit intentional abuse of skirting the <50% reserve limit if all units dont get deployed)

    My experience is a lot of time is lost in these early stages. It sets the tone to be expedient and if you can't deploy that quick than you probably can't play it either.

  12. Mike February 16, 2018 4:56 pm #

    Chess clocks- no. Tons of people do not want to alter the atmosphere of the gentlemen’s game into a “serious business” chess clock game. At this juncture, we do not need to be reducing our tournament turn out by turning off the semi-competitive from attending. The 40k scene just does not have the kind of player numbers to be able to afford that cut.

    Battle points only, even just for part of the event- no. It creates entirely unfair situations where matchups are even more important than they are now. You could have a couple reasonably close games where you win with like 24 points on both with no time issues, while another guy gets amazing matchups for his list and dominates, getting 40 points a round. You are now 32 points behind that guy despite having the same record. Battle points are fine as a tiebreaker, but the W/L/D record should always be the primary determinant of placement.

    Players need to play faster- this is not a solution. You might as well go out to the side of the road and shout “drive better!” for all the good it’s going to do.

    A lot of the suggestions just make it to where the players will simply always report that they finished the game, despite whether or not that actually happened. All that will do is hide the time issues, instead of solving them.

    Really it just comes down to that we’re trying to stuff too much game into too little time. It is a strategy and tactics game. It should not take a frantic rush to finish on time. There should be time in the round to call Moyie play through each turn, with a bathroom break for both players, and a few spare minutes to deal with rules issues that may arise, and you should finish with time left, in a typical game. If that is not your typical game, then the time is getting too packed.

    • Mike February 16, 2018 5:17 pm #

      Not sure where that “call movie” came from. Voice to text failed and can’t edit it out. 🙁

      • Mike February 16, 2018 5:18 pm #

        It should be “calmly.” There should be time to CALMLY play through each turn.

        • Reecius February 19, 2018 12:52 pm #

          Agreed, but for some people playing calmly is a 45 minute turn which quite simply doesn’t work unless we want 5 hour rounds.

  13. TigerAttack February 16, 2018 6:29 pm #

    How is it possible that Grippando came in second at LVO, going into the tournament as the LEADER in OVERALL ITC points and literally SHOULD HAVE COME IN FIRST EVEN LOSING LVO, but DIDN’T EVEN WIN HIS REGION? Politics of the game and likes and dislikes aside, I am ashamed to be a part of a community that would cowtow to angry trolls and literally lie in event standings.

  14. Garry Leonard February 16, 2018 10:14 pm #

    Not the beat all end all answer here but making the battles 5 turns would help a bit as well. More time per turn etc.

    • Reecius February 19, 2018 12:53 pm #

      We have strongly considered that in the past but found that turn 6 is important for those close games.

      Not totally opposed to it but would like to approach that as a last resort.

  15. Michael Corr February 19, 2018 4:47 am #

    I used to watch the Banana-man show, it was great!

    Based on a Scottish comic series.

  16. MBIII February 20, 2018 11:57 am #

    The battlepoints without the W/L solution punishes the non-slow player. I could play my army like lightning but if the other guy is a slow player I’m penalized.

    I like the idea of a chess clock split 60%/60% and the when the clock runs out for one person the other keeps playing, with the timed out guy just having to do the defensive and combat rolls. Basically he gets to blow his extra time on a mad dash for points.

    It means that there is no auto-lose for time, and the player with time remaining actually has to be able to play the game out to get max points, and a player who very carefully uses their time to gain a big lead doesn’t lose all they made when their clock hits zero.

    There’s always a potential problem of someone slow playing their defensive rolls, but that is a much easier problem to look out for and punish than overall slow play.

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