Chapter Tactics #43: Pre-Socal Open Meta and Analyzing the New ITC Missions

Chapter Tactics is a 40k podcast which focuses on promoting better tactical play and situational awareness across all variations of the game. Today PeteyPab goes over the new ITC missions and talks about the meta heading into the Socal Open.

Show Notes:

  • Click here for a link for information on downloading best coast pairings app where you can find lists for most of the events I mentioned.
  • Chapter Tactics is back! With Weekly episodes and a lot of tactical insight, this is your place for all things 40k in 8th edition.
  • Check out the last episode of Chapter Tactics here. Or, click here for a link to a full archive of all of my episodes.
  • Want more tactical information about the new edition? Check out our 8th Edition article archive to help get a leg up on the competition!



got a list

Need help with a list idea? Got a rules question? Want to talk tactics? Then email me at… 

Please do not send an army list in a format such as Army Builder, send them in an easy to read, typed format. Thanks!


About Petey Pab

Aspiring 40k analyst, tournament reporter and Ultramarines enthusiast, Petey Pab only seeks to gather more knowledge about the game of 40k and share it with as many people as he can in order to unite both hobbyists and gamers. We are, after all, two sides of the same coin.

32 Responses to “Chapter Tactics #43: Pre-Socal Open Meta and Analyzing the New ITC Missions”

  1. Sossen October 15, 2017 10:57 pm #

    Could you post those Blood Angels lists? I would love to see how what gear the Death Company were outfitted with.

  2. loofa October 16, 2017 3:53 am #

    I love your podcast overall, but you gotta stop complaining about battlescribe and just learn to read it.

    I swear it’s not that hard. And seriously, the age of pen and paper has gone away. These newfangled computers are really starting to take off!

    • Cephalobeard October 16, 2017 4:16 am #

      I don’t like Battlescribe. I appreciate hearing the opinion that it’s garbage, instead of being told to learn how to read it. Because no one has to learn how to use any third party list builder.

      • Marius Xerxes October 16, 2017 4:36 am #

        Agreed. Battlescribe is garbage. I’m glad that army builder has almost completed being upgraded to 8th edition. Always felt like a superior product to me, even with its own issues.

        In the mean time, i’m using these newfangled computers and this here Excel program to fill the void.

        • Dakkath October 16, 2017 6:33 am #

          Army builder is almost done with 8th? Oh thank the gods/emperor/omnissiah/greater good.

          • Dbiesto October 16, 2017 8:32 am

            Battlescribe has 2 different downloads available currently. There are some errors but overall it is decently accurate. The non mobile version allows you to view all the abilities but not every single option is available such as it wont let you give hormagaunts adrenal glands unless you use the mobile version. Also, I dont think the mobile version is up to date yet either so for most accurate points you have to use the v34 one.

            And then add missing upgrades in for the units you want to. The most accurate website was shut down due to copyright infirngement but was to be expected. Im not sure if quartermaster is up to date yet, I gave up after 2 months in they still didnt put all the 8th edition armies in.

      • loofa October 16, 2017 4:49 am #

        You’re absolutely right that no one should be forced to learn how to use it to make lists. That said, reading is a different story when you consider just how many people use it. I get that it could be confusing the first time you see a list made with it, but I honestly can’t understand how someone couldn’t figure it out after seeing it more than once.

        For example, in this very podcast, the host commented and then spoke at length about the fact that there was no HQ in a vanguard attachment. Five minutes later, he says “oh here’s the HQ.” He figured it out by the end of reading that one list.

        Furthermore, that whole discussion could have been avoided if the host had simply glanced at the list ahead of time.

        Finally, all agree that battlescribe is far from perfect, but it’s a heck of a lot better than muddling through it with a pen and paper and a calculator. That’s why so many people use it. If you would like to suggest an alternative, I’m all ears 🙂

        • rawne_bal October 16, 2017 6:43 am #

          The issue with battles scribe only really plays out when you take a soup army and your HQs are nowhere near the rest of the detachment. No one should be handing in a battle scribe list to a TO. They should be handing in a typed list that has been taken out of battlescribe and checked with their codex/index before just saying the app should be right.

        • abusepuppy October 16, 2017 10:26 pm #

          The problem is not so much that Battlescribe itself is horrible (it’s a useful tool for making and editing lists quickly as well as uploading them for others to see if they want.) The issue is more that Battlescribe’s output formats are, in many cases, unreadable garbage. There are ways to customize it to look okay, and the default “short” version isn’t too offensive, but for such a widely-used program it has no excuse for spewing out four paragraphs of text for a single unit with basic upgrades.

    • jumai October 16, 2017 5:52 am #

      I don’t think Battlescribe prints an unreadable mess, but think about it like this… its format’s intended use case is that the app user will look at it while tweaking their list. Consequently it focuses on showing a lot of fine grain detail in an expanded, explicit way. The assumption is that the person reading it is familiar with the general content of the list, and is mostly error checking or refreshing their memory. The list output offering a clear, top-level view for understanding the overall combination of units isn’t necessary for the list builder… if it’s not already burned into their working term memory they can just look at the add units screen for a second.

      Opponents at tournaments are looking for that top level view, though. While fine grain detail should be *available*, when they first look at your list they are trying to determine army composition, not see which model has the squad’s flag upgrade. It’s sportsmanlike to provide a list that helps with this by showing it visually (like force org charts do for detachments)… it shows you respect them enough as an opponent to assume they want the information relevant to planing a strategy, and that you respect them enough as a person to care that they wouldn’t enjoy flipping/scrolling around trying to count the different things before they know what all the things are, repeatedly having to ask for clarification, feel awkward while you wait for them to finish, etc etc.

    • Petey Pab October 16, 2017 11:59 am #

      I’m mostly complaining about people using it to post their lists on the BCP app.

      We should always strive to make the information clear and concise when presenting it to TOs and our opponents. Battlescribe has a feature (as I mentioned) that condenses the list down to 1 or 2 pages.

      As I have said several times before. Battlescribe is a great tool. But mostly for yourself as a reference. Not as a way to present to your opponent.

  3. Cephalobeard October 16, 2017 4:29 am #

    I’m glad you mentioned Noise Marines again. Without you reminding me last time, I would have still not remembered they existed. People just aren’t using them because they’re obsessed with Zerkers still (which is warranted), but I absolutely love a 20man all sonic blaster blob. If you go first and double tap them, it’s an almost guaranteed 180+ Shots from that squad.

    • WestRider October 16, 2017 11:33 am #

      I think a lot of us are also still trying to figure out where we put ours after they last hit the table a decade ago, and how much work is gonna be needed to get them back in tabletop shape 🙁

      • Dbiesto October 16, 2017 2:31 pm #

        Camp them on a midfield objective in ruins for that 2+ and a 5+ ignore wounds from a sorceror. The main issue is rolling split fire all those dice in a 6 turn short time frame. Plus alpha legion trait makes them good. They die super fast once opponent gets in range if they are left in the open.

        • Dbiesto October 16, 2017 3:21 pm #

          Also squeeze in the blastmasters. Trust me on this, 4 less so you can double tap obscured tanks and negate their obscured save.

    • Threllen October 16, 2017 2:06 pm #

      I’m excited to try out my alpha legion brigade that features 20 Noise Marines. Have a lord there for re-rolling 1s and a sorcerer to give them prescience and 5+ FnP.

      So basically they won’t miss, will use VotLW to wound easy, and will use double tap to do it all again. And on top of that -1 To Hit and 5+ FnP…

  4. jumai October 16, 2017 4:49 am #

    You’re always apologising for talking on your own podcast but this one was really good. Thanks for the breaking down the new missions.

    • Petey Pab October 16, 2017 12:00 pm #

      Thanks Jumai!

      I needed a comment like this one.

  5. rvd1ofakind October 16, 2017 4:59 am #

    “Don’t get your hopes up Chaos Daemon players. They’re not actual daemon armies”

    I cry every time

    • Cephalobeard October 16, 2017 5:26 am #

      Yep. They’ve been shelved until they get a codex. Went from Hype to “ugh” real quick on them, and here’s hoping they opt to make the other units worthwhile in the ‘dex, instead of nerfing the only 3-4 good units into the ground.

    • Petey Pab October 16, 2017 12:01 pm #

      I have to keep it real, lol. Yeah I’ve learned the hard way to asterisk factions when I mention them now.

      People just want to see their favorite units on the board, not their actual favorite factions.

  6. jifel October 16, 2017 8:08 am #

    Dang! Pablo called my list format out hard. :'( For the record, Battlescribe lists were uploaded by the TO, the hard copy of the list I brought to Crucible 6.5 was much more legible.

    • Petey Pab October 16, 2017 12:02 pm #

      That list format is perfect. I had no idea the lists were uploaded by the TO. Thank you very much for that piece of information. It’s something I need to take into account in future podcasts.

      Congratz on the performance by the way!

      • jifel October 16, 2017 2:33 pm #

        Not a problem! I don’t take it personally, I just caught a load of flak from my gaming group because I always grill them over list format so it was a nice dose of irony. Enjoyed the podcast as always, keep up the good work!

  7. DJ Khal Drogo October 16, 2017 10:42 am #

    Unrelated question: Why is Deathguard part of Chaos Space Marines? They have their own codex and are explicitly not allowed to use anything from that book legion wise. Seems wrong to put them under the same category as Alpha Legion.

    Could be something in the works, but with Dark Mechanicus getting a faction…haha

    • Petey Pab October 16, 2017 12:06 pm #

      They technically count as Heretic Astartes, which means they can benefit from certain CSM stratagems.

      People often times lump all of the regular Space Marine factions into one as well. I think it’s just habit.

      • DJ Khal Drogo October 16, 2017 2:04 pm #

        Sure, but they can’t even have the CSM detachment, it says in the codex that everyone needs to have the legion keyword, excluding 1k sons and DG because they’re so different.

        Can’t Grey Knights benefit from some Space Marine stratagems? They are separate factions in ITC

    • WestRider October 16, 2017 1:41 pm #

      The Faction Keywords often include some beyond the nominal Faction of a Codex. As long as they have the right Keywords, they can be a valid target for Strategems, Psychic Powers, Abilities, etc. that are limited by Keyword. Heretic Astartes is currently probably the most important Keyword like this, but when the Daemons Codex drops, I expect there will be a bunch of things that target {God} Daemons, which will also be usable on a number of CSM Units, because they have both the relevant Keywords.

      • Threllen October 16, 2017 2:13 pm #

        Some of this already exists with the daemon index but it’s mostly stuff that benefits Heretic Astartes (and not the other way around).

        A number of daemon HQs have auras that affect “____ Daemons” which can just as easily affect Heretic Astartes with the daemon keyword. Such as the Changeling giving units like Magnus or Heldrakes a -1 To Hit.

        Codex will make them even more synergistic with stratagems and the like.

        • Dbiesto October 16, 2017 8:04 pm #

          Nurgle Helldrakes with virulent blessing that can heal an additional d3 wounds and get miasma of petilence cast on them make a great screening unit, until your heroes get sniped or targeted by a sniping psyker. The changeling is very nice but if you try to stay mobile nurgle powers are so good at keeping it alive if you squeeze in 3+ Daemons that can cast to CSM are very useful allies.

          • Dbiesto October 16, 2017 8:05 pm

            Using Nurgle flying princes.

    • winterman October 16, 2017 6:42 pm #

      Its likely because they got their own dex mid season. I imagine they will be their own deal next season.

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