Signals from the Frontline #544: 8th Edition 40k Acclimation Pains

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Show Notes

Date: 6-30-17


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  •  We hope you all have been enjoying the LIVE games of 40k and now, AoS we’ve been streaming on our Twitch Channel! It’s been a blast and we’ve really learned a lot about 8th ed 40k together. Tonight’s game will be Drukhari per our Twitch Subscribers’ vote, vs. a Nurgle Daemon Engine Chaos army at 5pm PST.
    • Open discussion on rules we’ve been learning and 8th ed in general.
    • Interesting to see the hang-ups people have had in the early stages of the game.
    • Amusing to see the grand, sweeping judgements of the game from folks who have only been playing for a few weeks.

  • If you notice my LVO shirt, that is because I am getting pumped for LVO 2018 registration opening up in July! Make sure to get ready for that as the big events do sell out quickly, 40k particularly. Last year it sold out almost instantly and we had to find more space to open it up again, which then also sold out! We look forward to hosting you for what will be the biggest and best LVO, yet.

  • The General’s Handbook 2 has been announced for AoS, which is a hotly anticipated release. This will update the game with new points values for units, new faction wide rules and more.

  • I was hoping on the next Signals from the Frontline you could mention our event. It’s an open game day event to raise money for a Veterans Charity. Please read the short description below. The event is Saturday July 29th @ MuGu games in Everett WA From 11:00-5:00.
  • For those of you who didn’t know Kevin he was a member of our Bolt Action group. He died of cancer on June 2nd and we would like to raise some money for a charity he felt strongly about. Burn pit veterans 360.
  • 100% of the monies will go to Burn Pit Veterans in Kevin’s name.
  • Entry fee is 20$. We will have raffles for the new 40k starter set! Bolt Action armies 8th army Brits, German Fallschirmjäger. X-wing and much more.
  • We will also be BBQing burgers and Bratwurst. It’s a great way to spend a Saturday rolling dice eating BBQ and contributing to a great cause.
  • Kevin is the guy in the middle of the Pic a really cool guy.

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21 Responses to “Signals from the Frontline #544: 8th Edition 40k Acclimation Pains”

  1. Threllen June 30, 2017 10:39 am #

    The biggest acclimation pain for me is still points values. A couple examples from the Chaos index:
    1. For some reason, the weapons that the daemonic steeds come with (bladed horns, disc blades, etc) cost additional points when you take them for CSM characters but not for Daemon characters. The lack of consistency between gear for the two armies makes things even harder to keep track of when you consider you’re already having to look in at least 2-3 different places just to take a single unit…
    2. Almost nothing has a separate points value for Daemons whereas everything does for CSM. Especially confusing is the fact that every single daemon (outside of Daemon Princes) state they “include all wargear” yet plenty of things like banners and the rod of sorcery DO say they cost more points. So which is it? Do those items really cost more?
    3. The Blood Thrones (for herald and for Skull Cannon) both say the model comes with two bloodletters. For the herald they don’t appear to do anything but they do contribute close combat attacks for the skull cannon. Do you have to add the cost of the two bloodletters to the throne? Or does its cost already include them?

    • Threllen June 30, 2017 11:52 am #

      Also just noticed that if the Lord of Change takes a Baleful sword apparently he has an entirely different profile in the appendix that costs 15 points more? Yet if he takes a rod of sorcery instead of getting a new profile he has that weapon in “other wargear” denoted as costing 10 pts even though his entry says “includes all wargear.”

      These indexes are honestly atrocious to read…

  2. Danden June 30, 2017 12:21 pm #

    Hey FLG!

    Do you guys have a fallback plan to address some of the glaring issues that need FAQ/Errata before BAO next month?

    Some of the things listed here a good example:

    For example, Dark Angels can create a bubble that’s immune to all non-auto hit weapons via a handful of Darkshrouds. I’m under the impression GW is not going to be able to release a full FAQ by then if anything at all.

    We’re definitely in a real weird twilight like zone at the moment and FLG, you are our only hope!

    • Reecius June 30, 2017 12:28 pm #

      No stacking of the same buff/debuff unless the rule says you can.

      But hang in there, GW I feel confident will be answering these questions, soon!

    • Venkarel June 30, 2017 9:37 pm #

      The way the Darkshroud specifically is worded it allows for stacking. Is there an actual rule in the rule book that says that auras do not stack? If so please tell me where is can find it? Not being a ass really want to know, so I can point it out to other folks.

    • Kartr_Kana July 1, 2017 7:36 am #

      Not going to be a very big model if 3-4 are going to give the bonus to each other. So pick off the Darkshrouds and/or punch the Dark Angels.

      • Venkarel July 2, 2017 5:55 am #

        Uh they stack with each other if I have 4 then -4to hit you are not picking of anything, you might assault them or flame them.

  3. Ujayim June 30, 2017 12:26 pm #

    Devils advocate for when you guys, or anyone, mentions “We’re not forcing you to use ITC, play how you want!”

    While that is, technically, true, ITC has grown and become such an easy plug and play format that many individuals and locations won’t ever alter anything, or individuals won’t have a say in minor adjustments to those formats. Beyond that, the largest events in the US (LVO, for example) use the ITC standard and do not modify the packet.

    While yes, locations can change things, or individuals can vouch for it, there comes a time when the size of your reach needs to be acknowledged and not used as a crutch for “well you don’t need to do it”, as often.

    That being said, I think you guys do great. I just think we should acknowledge GW is NOT running how competitive things go, especially in the US. You guys, for all intents and purposes, are. Can’t treat it as the same fluid idea you started it as years ago forever.

    • Reecius June 30, 2017 12:39 pm #

      First of all, thank you for the kind words, means a lot.

      And yeah, you make a good point. We use that as a bit of a caveat, but while it is for sure true, as you noted sometimes it just ends up being what folks end up doing by default.

      Yeah, we may need to change the way we talk about it to reflect reality a bit more.

      • Ujayim June 30, 2017 12:43 pm #

        If anything I see it as a good thing. It’s a testament to what you’ve done and how YOU have grown the hobby and the community. With great power comes great responsibility, haha.

  4. Adam (RUMBL & TheDiceAbide) June 30, 2017 12:34 pm #

    Hey dude, a thought about the auto-go-first. Have you found that when combined with the changes to KP, there is very little incentive to play non-MSU, unless you have specific special rules that reward big units (like Orks)? I know it’s still very early, but it seems that just giving up the +1 is a pretty small price to pay to make it so that the enemy wastes fire power having to kill MSU, or not having morale roll through a unit.

    • Reecius June 30, 2017 12:41 pm #

      Funny, we were talking about this on the cast.

      +1 to go first is HUGE. In any other edition of the game that would have caused folks to lose their minds. But with auto go fist on the table it pales a bit.

      With First Blood +10 points, and MSU being easy to give it up, that is still quite the incentive. Also, MSU is not what it was as every unit can split fire and objectives are held by number of models, not by a single model. So, I think the advantage of MSU has gone down quite a bit.

  5. Martin June 30, 2017 7:51 pm #

    I’m kind of disappointed with plague marines. Great new models and it sounds like Death Guard are being upgraded in to a full faction (also awesome) but the key unit for that faction seems kind of meh and over-costed. Could be wrong but it hard to see how they can be worth 21 points and the battle reports that have been floating around have not been encouraging about these guys. It also seems unlikely a codex release will “fix” this, at best it will just add other things that also outshine the plague marines

  6. RabbitMaster July 1, 2017 7:49 am #

    Quick question in regards of you discussion about cover. During the stream you said that for an infantry unit to get the benefits of cover, all models needed to touch the scenery to get it.
    However, the rules for cover says “If a unit is *entirely* on or within any terrain […]” which, to me, more than strongly suggest that “toe in” is clearly not enough, you need to be *entirely* on/within the terrain.

    This is a point that comes very often on the table, and although so far we’ve always resolved it by cordial discussion during deployment, I feel that it really needs some kind of clarification because a lot of people are playing it in different ways.

    • CaptainA July 1, 2017 9:32 am #

      Check the “Designers Notes” on the warham community page. They say that units only need to be partially in the terrain.

    • WestRider July 1, 2017 3:45 pm #

      Every Model in the Unit needs to be at least partially within the Terrain. The Designers’ Notes cleared this up somewhat, but it could still be better. I’ve seen a few different forms of confusion on the topic.

  7. Lorenzo July 2, 2017 12:39 am #

    Looks like spam lists are already starting to dominate the early meta in the UK. One of the biggest events in th UK is currently seeing the top tables filled with Bobby G + twin auto cannon ven dreds.

    Le sigh

    • Anggul July 2, 2017 3:29 am #

      While it’s early days so I don’t think we can make any sweeping statements yet, and such things will inevitably be countered, it does seem like an inherent problem with the detachments that are just three of any slot plus an HQ. I wonder if maybe we’ll end up deciding to only use the combined arms style ones; patrol, battalion, and brigade.

      • Lorenzo July 2, 2017 4:38 am #

        I hope you’re right. It may just be a popular list that won’t have much longevity once the meta starts progressing. Still not a promising start for the tournament scene though 🙁

  8. Will Grant July 2, 2017 5:54 am #

    Who seizes on a 4+ in Forgeworld?

    • Reecius July 2, 2017 7:29 am #

      I misspoke, it is a reroll to seize not a 4+, and it is Toholk the Blinded, a Necron Character.

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