Signals from the Frontline #538: Ask us more 8th ed questions!

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Show Notes

Date: 6-5-17

Intro

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News

  • Tuesday Night Fight, tomorrow starting at 5pm PST on our Twitch Channel!
    • Orks vs. Chaos Space Marines!
  • And 8th edition is blowing up the internet!
    • Hit us with some questions and we will answer what we can. Been getting lots of questions.
    • GW also gave us info on Imperial Agents and more FW goodies!
  • ITC will update to accommodate 8th ed!

  • BAO 2017 format with 8th in mind will be up on the site very soon. It will be very interesting to see who prevails in this early form of the game!

  • SoCal Open ticket picked up after 8th peaked its head up, so please, do not wait to get those tickets or risk missing out.

Upcoming ITC Events

Rumors: The Rumor Section is gathered from the web and is not in any way information we receive from  any manufacturer nor is it necessarily accurate. This section of the podcast is intended for entertainment purposes only.

 

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94 Responses to “Signals from the Frontline #538: Ask us more 8th ed questions!”

  1. Chris June 5, 2017 10:19 am #

    I can’t wait to see 8th edition battle reports online. I played my first 8th edition game with my local group (Grey Knights vs. Necrons) and it was a total blast. Everyone who’s played 8th is super enthusiastic about attending 40K tournaments and leagues. I’m sure they’ll be things to tweak and improve, but my overall impression was: 40K IS FIXED. Deathstars were out, psychic powers were balanced (GK are a mother with their Smite power) and it was even fun to use my Monolith lol The future looks bright…

    • Reecius
      Reecius June 5, 2017 11:01 am #

      Agree on every count =)

    • Threllen June 5, 2017 11:58 am #

      They still need to do a lot of work with Psychic powers imo. It’s fine if you only have one or two psykers but psyker-heavy armies in matched play are literally just smite bots. T-sons went from a full 6 power discipline plus book powers plus a primarch that could cast from a selection of 15 different spells to a single 3-power table. Meaning sorcerers are basically just glorified mortal-wound bots right now.

      Same with Tzeentch daemons. They got their own table at least (whereas T-sons use the same table as the rest of CSM) but the table is awful. One power that adds a random stat, one that’s basically just smite that can target any unit but is harder to cast, and a dumbed-down mind control from last edition. Of course all 3 of the powers can, again, only be cast once per turn meaning if you bring multiple psykers they aren’t doing anything except smiting.

      I agree that unlimited summoning was BS and time-consuming. I agree that rolling for powers was BS and time-consuming. I agree that some powers *cough cough* invisibility were totally overtuned. But casting powers was fun. It added a totally different element to the game. At the current moment it looks like all my psykers might as well just have a gun that causes D3 mortal wounds. Because that’s basically all they’re going to bring to the table other than the one model who gets to attempt one of the other powers.

  2. ChrisG
    Ahkris June 5, 2017 10:25 am #

    Hey guys! In matched play you have the reinforcement points mechanic. As far as i can work out it always talks about paying points for adding UNITS to the board.

    Am i correct in thinking that therefore adding MODELS to existing units (for instance through the poxwalkers rules) does not require reinforcement points?

    Cheers!

    • Reecius
      Reecius June 5, 2017 11:03 am #

      You pay to add new units to the table, not to reinforce existing units, that is correct.

  3. Cephalobeard June 5, 2017 11:04 am #

    I emailed the question, as requested, I’ll also comment it here.

    Burning chariots have an option for ‘3 blue horrors’ to “accompany” the model. There’s no wargear option for them, and the burning chariot states it’s price is including wargear.

    Does this mean you can pay for 3 horrors to join the model, and gain their wounds/attacks for the cost of 3 blue horrors?

  4. Sad Rubric Spammer June 5, 2017 11:07 am #

    Hey,

    Did you guys get to test the FW stuff as well?
    What about Codex Specific stuff (Faction Strats, Faction WL Traits, etc)?

    I know you can’t say too much but yes/no and good/meh is fine. So is “No Comment”

    Thanks.

    • Reecius
      Reecius June 5, 2017 11:26 am #

      We’ll discuss FW units more when the books are out =)

      • Sad Rubric Spammer June 5, 2017 11:59 am #

        Cool.

        The smiley actually answers my question more than the words do =]

  5. AngryPanda June 5, 2017 11:42 am #

    Are Flamers supposed to be the most precise anti-air weapon?

    • WrentheFaceless June 5, 2017 1:11 pm #

      Flamers being anti air is over blown, most are str 4, 5 at the most with 0 rend, -1 at the most, wounding most flyers on 5s giving them their full saves; not optimal at all

      • Threllen June 5, 2017 6:39 pm #

        There are plenty of standard flamers that are not S4 or S5, though.

        For example, can anyone explain to me why I would ever put a Hades Autocannon on a Heldrake? It doesn’t auto-hit and it’s heavy. End of Story. Not only is the Heldrake only BS4+, it doesn’t have any sort of protection for moving and shooting from what I can see. Meaning it’s BS5+ when moving and shooting with the autocannon. Make that BS6+ against any flyers with To Hit modifiers. So something that used to be a decent option vs flyer heavy armies is now literally useless.

        On the other hand, the flamer (which used to be for anti-infantry) is now better at killing just about anything. The flamer combined with assault would do work against most flyers. The autocannon would uselessly miss.

        • Threllen June 5, 2017 6:40 pm #

          Maybe “standard” isn’t the right word but easily-accessible. There are a fair number of S5-6 flamers in the game with decent rends that are suddenly really, really good against flyers even though it doesn’t make a whole hell of a lot of sense.

    • Reecius
      Reecius June 5, 2017 2:21 pm #

      It is a bit silly, I agree but them there is the rules.

    • Ytook June 5, 2017 4:30 pm #

      It is a funny result of the interactions, but given the speed of flyers and range of flamer weapons they’re not hard to avoid if you need to, and as WrentheFaceless points out they’re not the best thing to aim at flyers to do damage.

      And hey, maybe aiming those promethium bursts can go higher than they go far (just wear a strong hat) 😉

  6. Anon June 5, 2017 12:03 pm #

    Can Celestine’s and Imagifier’s abilities let vehicles use AoF?

    • Reecius
      Reecius June 5, 2017 2:21 pm #

      Can you specify a bit more, please?

      • Anon June 5, 2017 7:04 pm #

        Basically because of the way the Acts of Faith rule is worded doesn’t specifically stop things that don’t have ‘acts of faith’ as part of their profile from using acts of faith, it just stops them from benefiting from the 2+ roll at the start of the turn.

        Combine this with Celestine’s rule allowing units with ‘adepta sororitas’ to use acts of faith and imagifiers allowing units to use acts of faith means that some people have interpreted this as allowing vehicles like the Exorcist and Immolator to benefit from the acts of Faith granted by Celestine’s and the Imagifiers abilities.

  7. Konkey Dong June 5, 2017 12:29 pm #

    Couple of questions:

    I’m assuming that only units with special rules allowing them to “stay in reserves” can do so e.g. you cannot hold a stormraven in reserve anymore but must start on the table?

    How did GW get the eversor so wrong? 😉 Going to see 1-3 of these in most competitive imperial lists

    • Reecius
      Reecius June 5, 2017 2:25 pm #

      Yeah, only units with the special rule can start n reserves.

      And assassin armies are going to be a thing, lol.

  8. Grunt June 5, 2017 12:52 pm #

    What will be thrle top tier armies in your opinions?

    • Reecius
      Reecius June 5, 2017 2:24 pm #

      Yes and no. I think everyone will compete with everyone, but some armies will have advantages. It won’t be like 7th, though. You can take the army you like and compete, IMO.

  9. Ryan bridges June 5, 2017 4:27 pm #

    All my reserves can come in turn one correct or do I have to divide them up for turns?

    • Reecius
      Reecius June 6, 2017 8:43 am #

      They can all come in when you want.

  10. gallenphillips June 5, 2017 4:28 pm #

    Pretty much Raven Guard player. How was Shrike compared to other characters on the table? His abilities seem to give units that Raven Guard flavor, but worried that they will not be as viable until the codex drops. Seems scouts will be better now that they can take HBs and MLs without losing mobility. Any suggestions on outfitting scouts in 8th?

    • Reecius
      Reecius June 6, 2017 8:45 am #

      Shrike rocks because he is so cheap! He is the most affordable way to get the awesome Chapter Master buff. He also hits very hard in melee. He’s better than he’s been in years.

      Scouts? You can run them any way, honestly, they’re excellent. I love them with Bolters, melee weapons, Sniper Rifles. You name it, Scouts are a fantastic troop.

    • WestRider June 6, 2017 10:22 am #

      Shrike looks awesome to me. I’m really looking forward to trying him out.

  11. zyekian June 5, 2017 4:41 pm #

    Hey Reece, the new 40k looks great and everyone’s hard work looks like it’s paying off.

    One thing though from watching early batreps and talking to list builders, smite spam is absurd. Folks are lining up to spam mortal wounds in the most dumbly effective fashion possible. Aside from being very powerful, it’s just flat boring to see the same power cast over and over again while all the other powers combined see less action.

    It also brings back 7e’s feeling of non-interaction into the game with so many unsaveable attacks going on.

    A simple solution would be to have escalating warp charges needed as smite is cast repeatedly. The second time it’s cast it’s +1 WC, second time +2WC, etc.

    Otherwise people aren’t going to bother casting most other powers and the psychic phase ends up feeling “dumb”.

    Hope this helps.

    • Sanchezsam2 June 5, 2017 4:56 pm #

      To be fair smite spam isn’t a Big deal to horde armies that aleady flood the field with tshirt saves single wound models. A horde of orks with painboy could care less. also anti psykers like the culexus and sisters of silence is a hard counter and the culexus in particular will be very popular.

      • zyekian June 5, 2017 5:01 pm #

        What if you don’t play hordes or the other stuff?

        Spamming attacks that eliminate player interaction is exactly what this edition purposefully set out to avoid I thought.

        • Threllen June 5, 2017 6:44 pm #

          I’m not sure if I would qualify smite as “eliminating player interaction,” though. Is it an unsaveable wound? Yes. So from that standpoint you don’t have much counter to it if it hits your unit.

          But smite has a shortish range at 18″ and must target the closest enemy. That opens up a whole host of positioning-related tactics that will limit the effectiveness of smite casting. Any sort of model/unit with a high wounds-to-cost ratio can be used to effectively block smite from hitting your important units while you take out the psykers.

          • Fagerlund June 5, 2017 7:53 pm
            #

            Most armies also has access to psykers themselves, so it’s not really unsavable. Position just gets even more important.

        • Reecius
          Reecius June 6, 2017 8:55 am #

          Mortal Wounds take getting used to but are honestly good for the game.

          And you have to take screen units in this edition unless you have the ability to somehow avoid first turn charges, etc. As Smite hits the closest unit, you can dictate who gets hit.

          Once you get used to it, it is pretty easily mitigated.

    • Reecius
      Reecius June 6, 2017 8:46 am #

      Smite Spam isn’t that big of a deal, honestly. We thought the same thing at first but in playing the game a lot, you get past it pretty quickly. A lot of the armies that can do it with non characters, have it at a reduced efficacy. If you spam characters, you will probably lose objective missions.

  12. T6Ted June 5, 2017 5:57 pm #

    Do the Firesight Marksmen +1 to hit for snipers stack if you take more than one?

    • Reecius
      Reecius June 6, 2017 8:50 am #

      Assume things do not stack unless they specify they do. There are a number of these issues that need to be fixed with stacking abilities.

  13. fluger June 5, 2017 6:38 pm #

    I’m pretty clear on this but the question has come up. When using another mob’s leadership, do you use that mob’s unit size?

  14. Tautastic June 5, 2017 7:49 pm #

    Strength from Death question. So now that everyone has split fire, my question is a unit X targets unit A, B, and C. Unit X killed unit A. Can Unit B activate soulburst before resolving the attacks from Unit X on unit B?

    So an example. A unit of 3 crisis suits all with MP. Each suits target a unit of bikes (A,B, and C). The suits rolls for Unit A first. It wipes unit A. Can unit B soulburst now or wait till the attacks on unit B are resolved first?

    It will be weird if unit B cannot soulburst before resolving the attacks because if Unit A in the example is a Ycarne then that means if the suits kills Ycarne Unit B and C will still benefit from a 6+ FNP after killing Ycarne…

  15. Fagerlund June 5, 2017 7:55 pm #

    So since battalions are still a thing in AoS, do you think Formations will make a return when codexes comes out?

    • Reecius
      Reecius June 5, 2017 8:57 pm #

      Not sure. I kind of hope not, though, lol.

      • Fagerlund June 5, 2017 10:51 pm #

        I’m with you on that one. It’s a certain way to get power creep. But seeing how Formations sold a lot of models for GW I think they will come back unfortunately… perhaps tweaked though. Perhaps giving extra Command Points or something.

        • Reecius
          Reecius June 6, 2017 8:38 am #

          Only time will tell =)

        • WestRider June 6, 2017 11:55 am #

          The problem was never anything about Formations inherently. The issue was a relative handful of them that were horribly unbalanced. For instance, Space Marines had 36 Formations available. Of those, there were really three that were the ones causing all the problems. Even of those, the Skyhammer did have counters that people learned, and the Demi-Company was only ever a huge problem in a Battle Company. When you really get down to it, it was basically the Librarius Conclave giving all SM Formations a bad name. You can go through any Faction and do the same thing. At least 95% of them were fine, or at least not too bad once you figured out how to deal with them.

          • AbusePuppy June 6, 2017 5:01 pm
            #

            It didn’t help that literally the very first formation they printed, the Firebase Support Cadre, was a dominant force in the game for an entire edition and then some.

          • WestRider June 7, 2017 9:23 am
            #

            Yeah, I probably should have used Tau for my example rather than SM, since they have about the same ratio, but had the additional issue of kicking the whole concept off with one of the worst offenders.

          • Threllen June 7, 2017 9:43 am
            #

            The real problem in my opinion was that formations had no cost associated with them. People liked to focus on the ones that gave tangible free things (like battle company transports or upgrades for the skitarii+ad mech conclave) but the reality is ALL formations gave free points. Whether the formation straight up gave you extra units/wargear for no cost or whether it gave you special rules like FnP, furious charge, etc etc you were getting bonuses for no cost. The worst offenders were obviously the ones that gave the biggest power spike but they were all problematic to some extent because they were adding to what your units could do without making you pay for it.

            If you want a game to remain open and competitive you have to make people pay for everything they get and formations didn’t do that.

          • WestRider June 7, 2017 11:14 pm
            #

            The lack of Points Cost actually gave them a potential that I really liked, but that was never realized on a large scale. They were a perfect tool for fixing Units that were badly underpowered without reprinting a whole Dex. Unfortunately, there were too many that instead gave excellent benefits to Units that were already really good.

          • Threllen June 8, 2017 5:46 am
            #

            To me, that was a BAD thing and not a good thing. Because it totally forced people into mono-builds and completely prevented GW from ever properly balancing a unit.

            For example – Skitarii and Ad-mech were pretty underwhelming last edition. And by underwhelming I mean bad. The ONLY reason they were good was if you plaved the convocation with 600pts of free upgrades.

            So what if you’re a Skitarii player or Ad-mech player who doesn’t want to use that formation? Now you’re using sub-par units. And they can never make those units good on their own right because then that formation becomes totally busted.

            All formations did was take units and bring them up a notch. There was really no point to field most units outside of GWs pre-made formations unless that unit didn’t actually have a formation because they were just objectively worse.

  16. Kevin Lantz June 5, 2017 9:40 pm #

    I really feel like there’s not enough to do with command points right now.

    For tau, the new hotness is drones again imo, savior protocols are great for moving those multiple damage wounds to a drone automatically… of course the issue is drones are easily targeted and removed by low ap weapons first.

    Shieldwall is pretty sweet and strange at the same time (70 pts open topped 3+ armor 10 wound transport)

    I see different uses for stormsurges vs riptides, but by and large I’m not seeing a super strong argument as far as fire power for taking riptides over storm surges…

    if you have a few ethereals your markerlights don’t mean much for your army until you get to the 4+ range on marker lights.

    regular troops have all become a whole lot tougher with cover + armor and most anti troop weapons being ap -1 or -2.

    • AbusePuppy June 6, 2017 6:26 am #

      Riptide can pawn wounds off on Drones, Stormsurge can’t. Stormsurge has better firepower (especially thanks to being able to plant anchors), but will ironically be less survivable.

      Remember Ethererals’ Storm of Fire ability only benefits units that don’t move. Tau often want to stay mobile. (It’s also nice to reroll those 1s on your Markerlights themselves, which the Ethereal helps out with.)

      • Kevin Lantz June 7, 2017 8:05 am #

        yeah I got that impression as the difference between the two when I played the other day a test game.

        Also advanced targeting system is a near must have for support equipment.

  17. Requizen
    Requizen June 6, 2017 5:31 am #

    What were your Necron playtest impressions? Internet is sort of divided on them, what’s good, what’s bad, etc.

    • Reecius
      Reecius June 6, 2017 8:38 am #

      Necrons are fantastic. We’ve tried all kinds of stuff, but in general found that big units of Warriors, Immortals and Flayed ones work very, very well with character support. You have to be wary of hard core long ranged shooty armies, though.

  18. Garry June 6, 2017 7:21 am #

    I’m torn on what i think about deployment and who gets first turn. It definitly effects how you go about building your list. I like that it is anti MSU while morale is pro MSU do you have to decide if you want to protect against morale or go first.

    As you’ve said yourself, thier are ways to counter being alpha struck.

    • Tautastic June 6, 2017 7:35 am #

      I do not really like the first turn mechanics and I hope tourneys changes it. I mean its fine if someone has 4 units versus 10+ units. Gives you enough units to counter deploy. But what if its 7 vs 8 units? The person with 8 units will be at a big disadvantage!

      • Reecius
        Reecius June 6, 2017 8:42 am #

        I’m not a big fan of the first turn mechanic, either, honestly. It works OK in AoS because most hard core shooty armies can’t deploy first (apart from Tzeentch, one of the reasons they are kicking ass in tournaments). But in 40k? Almost every army can be a hardcore shooty army. It can cause problems.

        • Garry June 6, 2017 9:53 am #

          I totally see what your getting at, but in the same token randomly rolling lets you still get first turn, and most army’s can hedge against such alpha strikes by using the kind reserves.

          I dont think i care took strongly either way?? But it would be nice to play a few tournament months with deployment as is and see how nasty it truly ends up being, or if the meta can solve the problem.

        • Garry June 6, 2017 9:58 am #

          Sorry for the double posr, but figure id clarify my point.

          If a shoot army can make a powerful alpha strike list that can lead blow you off the table. I not sure if its better that they can either randomly (50/50 dice roll off) to alpha strike your army in one turn, or for them to have to structure thier whole list in such a way that they could get first turn.

          I think both building you lust in a weird way so you can deploy first vs random roll both put equal pressures on the alpha striking player, but i prefer the list building because its less about dumb luck and more a point of strategy.

        • Jason Wolfe June 6, 2017 2:32 pm #

          What about making it so you can’t both get 1st turn and also pick deployment? Make it so that if you win deployment, the other player gets to pick turn. If you luck out picking deployment and deploy a shooting gallery deployment, then auto win first turn because you have 4 units, that will be a super problem.

          • Reecius
            Reecius June 6, 2017 3:10 pm
            #

            It hasn’t been in our experience but I see the point. Terrain should be set up appropriately with LOTS of LoS blocking terrain for a fun game in 8th.

  19. Razorfate June 6, 2017 10:07 am #

    Could you look at the issue with Kairos? He has not given the ephemeral rule and he has only a 5++ save.

  20. Anon June 6, 2017 10:25 am #

    My burning question that didn’t get answered last time:

    What will happen with the ITC rankings? Detachments share keywords and so will be faction “imperial” or “chaos”.

    Further, what about current ITC points earned?

    • Reecius
      Reecius June 6, 2017 10:28 am #

      All of the ITC information is being updated, now. You won’t lose any points, though =)

  21. Craig June 6, 2017 10:25 am #

    Quick question regarding the Broodlord. I understand he is one of your favorite HQs for the Nids at the moment. How do you deploy him with a brood of Genestealers and get them into combat quickly? I ask because as I understand it:

    1. He can’t come in with the stealers thru a trygon tunnel (only 1 unit can).
    2. Swarmy buffing the unit will move the stealers up the table but leave him behind as HC only buffs 1 unit.
    3. They cannot all arrive via Tyranocyte as, again, only 1 unit can be held inside.

    • Reecius
      Reecius June 6, 2017 10:27 am #

      Just run up the table. You can always conga line back to keep the buff if you need to, we do it all the time. Keeping them together is actually not that hard. The trick is learning how to leave space for him to charge or knowing when to have him charge first.

      • Metapanda June 9, 2017 9:44 pm #

        Quick question about broodlord. I’m aware that Old one eye buffs himself from his carnifex +1 to hit aura, by this logic does broodlord also buff himself causing him to hit even on 1s?

        • Reecius
          Reecius June 10, 2017 5:49 am #

          Per the brb, unmodified roles of 1 alway fail.

  22. Dylan June 6, 2017 10:53 am #

    Command Points:

    Can you reroll the seize roll? Matched play says that one roll during each phase. So Im guessing you can’t use a CP to reroll the seize since its not yet in a phase.

    Can you reroll an opponents die?

    • Reecius
      Reecius June 6, 2017 11:05 am #

      You cannot roll someone else’s die, you cannot use them before the game begins unless they specifically say you can.

      • Dylan June 6, 2017 11:08 am #

        Thanks!

      • Jason Wolfe June 6, 2017 2:33 pm #

        Whose die is it when a vehicle rolls to explode?

        Say Player 1 shoot’s Player 2’s tank. The tank dies.
        Who rolls the D6 for the tank to explode?
        If it is Player 2, then I think Player 2 should be able to CP-Reroll that 6.

        • Reecius
          Reecius June 6, 2017 3:09 pm #

          The controlling player rolls the explodes result.

      • AbusePuppy June 6, 2017 5:06 pm #

        Out of curiosity, Reece, why can’t you use CP before the game begins? (From a rules perspective; I understand the choice from a balance perspective.) The text in Matched Play specifically notes that you can make use of the rerolls outside of the phase sequence, which would imply you could use them at “nonstandard” times. Are there other notable times you would be disallowed from using them as well?

        • Reecius
          Reecius June 7, 2017 9:19 pm #

          The stratagem has to say it can be used before the game begins.

  23. PrimoFederalist June 6, 2017 12:12 pm #

    Are Space Wolves with no Thunderwolves viable?

    • Reecius
      Reecius June 6, 2017 2:46 pm #

      Very much so. Space Wolves troops rock.

      • PrimoFederalist June 6, 2017 3:02 pm #

        Fenris hjolda, indeed.

  24. Grunt June 6, 2017 12:37 pm #

    Can you all post the lists you used to play test?

    • Reecius
      Reecius June 6, 2017 2:47 pm #

      There are too many to list, lol. We didn’t just play one list per faction, we played literally every unit in each book.

  25. Vathek June 6, 2017 2:24 pm #

    When is this q and a in gmt? My tired post work brain can’t figure it out.

    • Vathek June 6, 2017 2:42 pm #

      Never mind. Tired post work brain did sad maths. 🙁

  26. rvd1ofkaind June 6, 2017 7:47 pm #

    Calling out some BS/misenterpretation:
    1. “You can roll for warlord traits/psychic powers in tournaments”. Really. Roll in tournaments. RIght.

    2. “Indexes are a start to play the game so deamons are simple.”. Not for everyone they’re not. I have AdMech and Daemons. I’ve read both and Daemons seem a LOT more simple and underwhelming while AdMech are almost as good and complicated as they were. The Codexes will com out in like 6 months. Until then – the players with only those armies are shit out of luck.

    3. In the 6 hr podcast you meantioned daemons in top 5 WORST armies. In here you say “oh, they’re so good, slaanesh is awesome, khorne is amazing, etc”. Really? In context, they are one of the worst in the game as you’ve said.

    4. You keep saying blank and blank are not good. Why then? I assume you told GW and they didn’t care?

    The game is a lot better tactically so that’s great. I played 2k AdMech vs Nids and we both had a ton of fun

    • Reecius
      Reecius June 6, 2017 8:01 pm #

      Ah…what? You can roll for stuff if you want. Not saying folks will, but they could. Some people like the random. I don’t, but that’s just me.

      You know when codexes will come out? Wow, that’s some hot insider info =p

      I don’t remember everything I said in the 6 hour podcast, but daemons aren’t bad at all. They’re probably the most different of all the armies though in term os playstyle.

      Some things ended up being less good than others. We’re just trying to be honest about it. I feel that nearly everything in the game is viable now, but we missed the marl on some things. It happens.

      That last sentence is awesome. Glad you’re enjoying it! That’s what ultimately matters.

      • rvd1ofakind June 6, 2017 9:18 pm #

        Thanks for the response
        1. Felt almost patronizing to me. Guess that’s just me

        2. Well the problem is that I, for example, bought Daemons after AdMech because they were a more complicated army to play, with having to random and think of what to do on the fly. Also having to know every units in your book and their interactions with every unit your opponent has due to summoning. Not to mention the pages upon pages of psychic which I had no access to. Now it seems that the daemons are the least complicated army having almost no unique rules between them compared to AdMech for example. Codexes coming out like “next week” would be quite silly and everything over 3 months is a long time since most people will binge play the game due to the 8th ed

        3. It wasn’t you who said it since you don’t play daemons.

        4. It just seemed weird but ofc I have no grasp on how much impact you could do to the rules. From what it looked like it was either GW not paying too much attention or you guys thinking “yeah, this this this and this unit is bad but meh, let’s press that “send” button anyway”. It felt that way because the rules haven’t been officially released and you already called quite a few units “not good” like you knew that but GW released it this way anyway.

        But yeah, the game feels great. Charge, Fight Phases, new Deep Strike and many “target closest units with an insane weapon” felt really good. Positioning everything properly is key to victory in the new edition.

        • Lorenzo June 7, 2017 12:40 am #

          Keep it respectful bro. These guys just gave up 6 hours of their time to do a great stream, which they didn’t have to do, and you’re giving them unwarranted grief. Cool it

          • Reecius
            Reecius June 7, 2017 7:00 am
            #

            Thanks for the support, bro.

        • Reecius
          Reecius June 7, 2017 7:04 am #

          Didn’t meant to sound patronizing. Some people actually do prefer to roll, they find it fun.

          Sounds like your view of the army doesn’t align with reality anymore, which sucks. But, Daemons were overly convoluted, IMO. They were just too much, and turned a lot of people off in regards to all the random stuff they generated, etc. Now, they are much simpler which I think is better for the game but may be crappy for you personally, which stinks.

          Well, I am actually not able to say how the dev process works, so I unfortunately cannot answer those questions, sorry.

          Again though, I am glad you are having fun with it. 8th is such a good time.

      • rvd1ofakind June 6, 2017 10:04 pm #

        Greater daemons are all the same except for stats and god rules. They really needed an extra rule to differentiate them. Like:
        Bloodthirster, when shot can force a leadership check with 2D6. If failed -1 to hit
        Lord of Change bounces off bullets on a 6+
        Great Unclean One makes enemy units within 12” have -2 to charge distance
        Keeper of secrets when shot can force a leadership check with 2D6. For each failed, resolve a shot as if the unit was targeting himself instead.
        Something like that
        Now they just look like generic big guys that give the same aura.

        • AngryPanda June 7, 2017 7:11 am #

          Dude if it helps, I’m right there with you. The longer I look at this the more it seems like the game was utterly gutted of anything that’s fun to play anymore and reduced to the reliable number crunching that makes every army suitable to be played competitively. Which is good but not at that cost. But no sense in getting worked up. We’ll see if it flies I guess.

        • Luke June 8, 2017 9:32 am #

          Just wait for the codices to come out. If you feel that way then, then I’m with you and that’s sad. But I have a feeling that that’s where all the unique flavor is going to come from.

          I also understand you liking Daemons because they were a complicated army that was tough to play well, but rewarding if you did play well. It’s one of the reasons that I got a Daemons army myself. But that reason alone is never enough. Everything changes edition to edition – what’s good, what’s bad, and how the game works. They tried (and succeeded) in making the game simpler, but that doesn’t mean that the tactical depth has been removed. Daemons were definitely too convoluted for most people to enjoy them, but there will always be tactics, strategy and unique flavor. If you need the game to be convoluted, you probably won’t enjoy 8th at all. But I think it’s a vast improvement over 7th in almost every respect, so long as an FAQ comes out before 9th 😉

  27. Threllen June 7, 2017 7:46 am #

    Hey Reece, question from another forum. In reading the big rulebook, it mentions that you make take “understrength” units with less models than the minimum but you still have to pay the points for the minimum-sized unit even if you’re fielding less models.

    However, someone was saying the indexes say the exact opposite – that you only pay for the models/wargear you take even in understrength units. Which is true?

    • WestRider June 7, 2017 9:31 am #

      Someone was over-generalizing from the quick summary of the Match Play Points System at the start of each Index’s Points Lists. That bit doesn’t actually discuss understrength Units at all.

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