Signals from the Frontline #508

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Show Notes

Date: 2-20-17


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  • We got to play some games this weekend! Whaaaaat?! Feels good to get back into a normal rhythm.
  • Wow, the new Gathering Storm 3 preview is HAWT!

  • GW has also announced some awesome new minis:

LordAquilorPalladorsENG_Slot2 Slambo_ProdSlide

  • Slambo is awesome, a throwback to Heroquest! And the new Stormcast Eternal Vanguard Auxiliary are just too cool, like FF knights on Chocobos.
  • All of the used LVO Terrain was sold nearly immediately, we’re just waiting on one last payment to come in and then we will let everyone waiting know via email. Thanks for the patience, and it feels good to give this old terrina new life and to help other TOs!
  • Also, don’t forget, the new FLG Mats are live, baby! We’ve got 6 4×6′ designs right now and a TON more on the way in April. All of our designs will be available in 4×4′ and 3×3′, too! Keep sending in those mat ideas too, we really appreciate them.

500x500 webcart FLG Mats-Snow1 500x500 webcart FLG Mats-Robot City 500x500 webcart FLG Mats-Mars 500x500 webcart FLG Mats-Grasslands1 500x500 webcart FLG Mats-City1 500x500 webcart FLG Mats-Badlands1

Upcoming ITC Events

  • Make sure to send in your event to be added to the calendar! Just because we had you on the circuit last year, doesn’t mean we expect you to run your event again. Thanks! Also, if you want to be included in our TO Email list to stay on top of the latest news and offerings to ITC T.O.’s.

Click here to join the ITC T.O. email group!


Chess Clock conversation, continued.

  • Tim G. from Chicago and Team Happy was kind enough to send in an affordable Chess Clock he’d found and that their area had been using for 40k events.
  • Check out their open source guidelines for using the clocks in 40k events.

Open source chess clock rules for Warhammer 40k Tournaments v5.0

When does time start?

Time starts when the first pregame action or dice roll happens.


1. Each player is responsible for their own time. It is a player’s right but not their obligation to make sure that their time is

being handled properly.

2. In the assault phase, a player may always choose to forego rolling to determine the results of a combat, starting with the player

whose turn it is. If they choose to save their time this way, their opponent may decide the results of the assault. This can range

from leaving the enemy unit unharmed, up to removing the entire unit involved in the combat. This must be decided before any

rolls are made in the combat.

3. Any major rule dispute results in a paused time scenario. The time is to remain paused until a formal judge is called to the table

and resolves the dispute.

4. If a player’s time runs out, they may not perform any more actions. The only exception is if they are in the middle of moving a

unit, they may finish so that the unit is placed legally on the board. As an example, this can include moving a unit in the

movement phase, finishing moving a unit into assault (note they will not be able to attack), or consolidating a unit. Any other

action is immediately stopped.

5. If a player runs out of time they may only perform the following actions:

a. Involuntary moves to keep them one inch from the enemy, such as reacting to a tank shock.

b. Pile in moves.

c. Making saving throws, and taking a leadership test if required to.

d. Scoring objectives that they have already achieved or already hold.

The most important rule is rule number 1. This is the most important rule because it puts time in your control, and fairly

allocates time while players interact. It is each player's right to pass the time to his opponent whenever they are making an action

or spending time making a decision.

Some examples of this are as follows:

1. You put 20 wounds on a unit containing multiple independent characters and models with different saving throws. Pass the

clock to your opponent so he can make his look out sir rolls and saving throws.

2. Your opponent must make 3 leadership tests after the shooting phase is over. Pass the clock to your opponent while he makes

these tests and moves the units which failed.

3. You destroy a vehicle and your opponent has a large squad inside that he wants positioned just right. Pass the clock to him

while he arranges his models.

4. You do 5 power fist wounds and 5 regular wounds to a unit that contains independent characters that might be affected by

instant death. Pass the clock to your opponent while he decides what saves to take on which models.

These examples are limited but show the basic concept. You manage your own time and it is up to you to pass the clock. If you

burn your own time, it is not your opponents fault.

When does the game end?

Games end naturally depending on random game length rolls or at the start of a new turn when neither player has greater than

5:00 minutes of time left on the clock.

Rumors: The Rumor Section is gathered from the web and is not in any way information we receive from  any manufacturer nor is it necessarily accurate. This section of the podcast is intended for entertainment purposes only.

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10 Responses to “Signals from the Frontline #508”

  1. CanHammer
    CanHammerLogan February 20, 2017 11:51 am

    On the note of round times – I think if you guys lead by example and change the format to 1650 (with no vote) it will take off in a big way. Until then a majority of people will stay at 1850 because that’s the ITC “standard” so that’s what people want to see at events.

    The data is there to support a point drop being the best possible thing for the game in a tournament sense, and frankly I think it needs to be put forward by the leaders of the community, rather than the (conservative) voter base of the ITC who fear change 😛

    I say this as it has been the direct feedback we’ve (CanHammer) received from a majority of the attendees of our events (2 majors, and about a half dozen RTTs throughout the year). People are interested in playing only what the “large” events use, or what the “tournament standard” is.

    With regard to the timed format outlined above, I like it, but strongly disagree with point #5. Things like “rolling for reserves” are not voluntary, they _must_ be done, likewise you _must_ fight in close combat, these are not things that you can choose not to do and it specifically says this in the rulebook. Likewise, not being able to roll look out sirs on saves is very arbitrary, and should not be there.

    With that said, the rest (no movement/shooting/etc…) does make perfect sense.

  2. GeekmasterK February 20, 2017 12:06 pm

    I’d be in favor of trying the chess clock idea using these rules. As CanHammerLogan said above, though, there are some actions labeled as voluntary that are actually involuntary, such as rolling for reserves or fighting in close combat. I wouldn’t want a Warmachine-style “death clock” format due to feeling that 40k isn’t well-suited to it, and that death clock tournaments are a factor that kept me away from competitive Warmachine. It was too punishing for my taste. Even if chess clocks don’t come into effect in the ITC, I plan to get my own chess clock to bring to tournaments for the sake of timing my turns. My army has a lot of actions over the course of a turn, so it’s difficult to make it go quickly. Time awareness is important. Also, reducing the points doesn’t seem like a bad idea at this time either, but we’ll see what happens if it comes to a vote again.

    The one last factor that might come into play is 8th Edition. At this point, we have no way of knowing if it will naturally speed up the games. If it does, a points reduction might not be necessary. Lots of things to consider, but I do agree that something needs to be done. I rarely ever see games reach a natural conclusion in my local tournament scene, so I see the problem.

  3. Ishagu February 20, 2017 3:18 pm

    I think the chess clock idea is the best.
    To be perfectly honest it’s not even that unreasonable to insist players get their own.
    A small addition to the hobby expenditure.

    Let’s not forget that 8th edition is around the corner too. All of our complaints might soon be moot!

  4. Drachnyen February 20, 2017 4:52 pm

    I agree with CanHammerLogan. If ITC sets the pace as the community leader, most people will adapt. Just set the standard to 1650. Then let the community settle into it. TOs are still able to make their event 1850 if they want, but at least the standard will be lowered.

    As for chess clocks, the need for them almost goes away if points are lower. No need to debate how to use them or add a new mechanic to the game. Just play, have fun and that’s it.

  5. Ishagu February 20, 2017 6:47 pm

    At 1650 all I see is more power to Tau and Eldar, whilst Battle Company loses it’s bite and thus forcing Marine players to adopt Death Stars.

    On a different note; Reece, Frankie – Roboute Guilliman is indeed brandishing the Emperor’s Sword (confirmed on Warhammer community) I’m guessing it’s a sign of office as much as a weapon.

    • Troy Graber February 21, 2017 1:43 pm

      I’ve played alot of games at lower points levels, and my experience is that Shootier armies loose out more than less shooty ones.

      Tau and Eldar are feared and hated because they are a shooty alpha strike army that is also very durable against other armies alphastrikes because of MC’s with 2+’s for Tau, and Wraithknights, warp spiders, and J-S-J for Eldar.

      The key to a successfully alpha strike is that after your 1st turn, your opponent has an effective points disadvantage. “I killed 400 points with my alpha strike so now it is 1850 vs 1450”.

      As points go down so does firepower. So the effect of alpha strikes is diminished because they can effectively kill fewer units. “I killed 150 points with my alpha strike so now it is 1500 vs 1350” isn’t nearly so bad as the above scenario.

      If you look at it scaled down it makes even more sense. They don’t have to kill all of the army. They can pick and choose their targets. You don’t have to kill the assault unit, you have to neutralize it’s mobility. So Kill it’s transports, or kill it’s survivability buffer.

      The ability to effectively neutralize those key targets declines as the points levels decline, and you see non-deathstar assault based armies better able to compete against the shooty alpha striking armies.

  6. jared February 20, 2017 11:03 pm

    I’m still not sold on chess clocks, I feel it would add a level of stress to the game that just doesn’t seem like fun. However, I am all for reducing the max points in games. I would be fine with 1500, but 1650 seems like a good compromise.

    • jared February 20, 2017 11:46 pm

      But on another note, I really love hearing you guys talk about AoS. It is a great game and I am glad it’s gaining the recognition it deserves.

  7. Sean Robles February 21, 2017 11:11 am

    Lower points isnt even needed, what really needs to be done is a crackdown on Slow Plays

    Even the threat of a penalty for habitual Slow Playing will go a long way to get games done on time.

  8. Lochcrest February 22, 2017 1:44 pm

    We have received a ton of great feedback about the rule set. We are in the process of making some minor tweaks and updates as a result of them. Thank you for helping to improve and tighten these open source chess clock rules for tournament games.