Signals from the Frontline #477: Sisters of Silence and Custodes, Oh My!

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Show Notes

Date: 10-24-16

Intro

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News

  • Wow, more Custodes on the way from Forgeworld! This hover tank is baller. Looks like they’re getting a Contemptor Dread, too!

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  • Be sure to grab your LVO shirts, hats and pint glasses!

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Upcoming ITC Events

Rumors: The Rumor Section is gathered from the web and is not in any way information we receive from  any manufacturer nor is it necessarily accurate. This section of the podcast is intended for entertainment purposes only.

  • Pictures floating around of new scenic bases and terrain for both AoS and 40k! Looks pretty rad.
  • People are speculating about which sub-faction GW will do next and Adeptus Arbites have been mentioned….er mah gawd!!! I would so like, totally die if that happens.

Rant Session

Tactics Corner

  • The big debate at present: what to do with Custodes and Sisters?

Rules Lawyer

Completed Commissions

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List Review

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About Reecius

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32 Responses to “Signals from the Frontline #477: Sisters of Silence and Custodes, Oh My!”

  1. Avatar
    Mike October 24, 2016 2:32 pm #

    ITC has historically bent their rules to allow models in. When eldar 7e came out, they bent over backwards to get strength D in, they made changes to allow the necron decurion, they allowed what amounts to a misprinted stompa cost, they allowed multiple stormsurges…

    So I can’t really see any reason to not allow them in. Other than if you happen to be one of those imperial haters who cry whenever anything imperial comes out.

    On the subject of unbound (and heresy armies,) is there any sense in still disallowing unbound? At this point, obsec, free transports, free upgrades, deep strike assaults, double firing tides etc etc far outstrip most of the abuse that unbound could be used for. I was super against unbound when 7e came out, but I just don’t see what people are scared of anymore.

    • Avatar
      Anggul October 25, 2016 1:16 am #

      Yeah, the most powerful units can already be spammed with zero ‘tax’ anyway, especially with pale courts being a thing.

      • Reecius
        Reecius October 25, 2016 9:18 am #

        I agree, Pale Court went a bit overboard.

    • Requizen
      Requizen October 25, 2016 6:01 am #

      Replied to you in the other thread, but here’s the same thing again:

      Those changes you talked about were just changes to ITC’s own existing restrictions. Wraithknights, Decurions, Stompas, and Stormsurges were already legal in Battle-Forged armies, they only had to change the format to allow them in ITC.

      Allowing Custodes or Sisters of Silence to be taken in any army as part of a CAD would be actively changing the base ruleset of the game. The difference is quite clear.

      If they allow Unbound in general, then cool yeah let’s go for it. Take Custodes and SoS units, but give everyone the same treatment, not just one subset of the game.

      • Reecius
        Reecius October 25, 2016 9:19 am #

        One of the ideas that came up that I really liked for this next vote was to let everyone take a Culexus Assassin if they wanted. Essentially make him no faction and take up a detachment slot. I don’t know if the community would accept it, but it was a cool idea.

        • Requizen
          Requizen October 25, 2016 9:48 am #

          I’m sorta interested in that, as it helps even the playing field for different armies against psychic shenanigans, but I’m always hesitant about large-scale changes like that. I’d be happy if the community voted on it, though.

          • Reecius
            Reecius October 25, 2016 10:15 am
            #

            Yeah, fair enough. It’s always such a delicate dance trying to do things fairly.

        • Avatar
          Drachnyen October 25, 2016 10:24 am #

          Hey Reece,

          I play chaos space marines, can I take a culexus too?

        • Avatar
          abusepuppy October 25, 2016 7:32 pm #

          I think you’re overestimating how useful he is. Yeah, he stops certain kinds of deathstar, but that’s basically it- and there are LOTS of other armies out there to worry about.

    • Reecius
      Reecius October 25, 2016 9:18 am #

      Thanks for actually siting some facts about how the ITC operates, Mike, seems to be a decided lack of that in this debate with many, lol.

      And yes, at this point Unbound is no big deal, particularly with no CtA which closes the door to the craziest stuff.

      I just don’t think the majority of people would be open minded to it enough to pass it ina vote. Also, we wouldn’t want to go unbound this close to LVO. Maybe in the first quarter vote after LVO we would put it up for consideration.

  2. Avatar
    Jural October 24, 2016 2:52 pm #

    Aaaah, painting something black. The easiest way in the world to spend 11 hours on a model and have some idiot think it was a dip job 😉

    Those vehicles look awesome! I don’t think you can paint black any better than that- meant as a 100% compliment…

  3. Avatar
    Ishagu October 24, 2016 4:52 pm #

    Hey guys.

    Allow the Custodes and Sisters to be taken as an Elite Choice to Imperial Armies.

    That wouls actually limit their use quite a bit as most armies are built from combinations of formations. This would force players into a CAD or taking allies.

    • Avatar
      NovaStar October 24, 2016 5:09 pm #

      you would just take coteaz and a inquisitorial detachment

      • Avatar
        Ishagu October 25, 2016 12:42 am #

        That’s a good point, the Inquisitorial detachment would allow easier access.
        Do you think an optimised battle company would be able to make room at 1850?

        And by the same virtue of that detachment, most players will be able to include these units. The Sisters will need to be taken in big numbers to actually be useful, so you’re looking at 550 points for 3 squads of 10 and Coteaz. I don’t see many people making that investment.

        The Custodes are certainly good, and psychic powers can make them stronger – but they are still inferior to Thunderwolves because of their poor movement and no access to transports.

        There’s nothing for us to worry about. I say we embrace more variety! 🙂

        • Avatar
          abusepuppy October 25, 2016 7:34 pm #

          1 Xenos Inquisitor 25pts
          5 Sisters of Silence 65pts
          total 90pts

          Yeah, I think a Battle Company could probably make room for that in order to shut down an entire class of army. Load ’em into a transport and watch the deathstars cry.

          • Avatar
            Ishagu October 26, 2016 3:08 am
            #

            If you can’t deal with 6 t3, 3+ save models with no transport early on you deserve to lose a game!

  4. Avatar
    Troy Graber October 24, 2016 10:57 pm #

    I feel like Reece pretty badly mischaracterized the word from GW on Custodes and Sisters of Silence. In case anyone is confused here is the full text:

    “The kits in this set are designed primarily for Horus Heresy games, but rules are provided to let you add them to your Warhammer 40,000 games if you want to. You are quite right – currently this is limited to Unbound games, or you and your opponent agreeing they can be included for some other narrative reason.

    Neither force is currently an active military force in the galaxy (The Adeptus Custodes don’t leave Terra, and the Sister of Silence have not bean widely active for 9,000 years) , so they don’t feature in any current Imperial formations, which tend to reflect active forces at the close of the 41st millennium.

    Both do still exist though, so who knows, we might just see more of them in future.”

    It is an official facebook post by the Warhammer 40K facebook page, and can be found here:
    https://www.facebook.com/1575682476085719/photos/a.1576243776029589.1073741828.1575682476085719/1706493826337916/?type=3&comment_id=1706653489655283&reply_comment_id=1707009042953061

    The most important part of that is that GW gave clear reasoning for why they aren’t available in battleforged armies: “Neither force is currently an active military force in the galaxy (The Adeptus Custodes don’t leave Terra, and the Sister of Silence have not bean widely active for 9,000 years)”

    We are talking about the ITC where Come the Apoc is disallowed for fluff reasons. In the fluff it would make sense for Legion of the Damned to use a Tyranid invasion as a distraction to make a surgical strike, or the Imperium could hire some Orks to be mercenaries.

    But it would be much less likely to see Custodes or SoS in active battle because they have not been an active military force for around 9,000 years.

    Contemptor Pattern Dreadnoughts and Cataphractii Terminator Armor on the other hand are rare, and no longer made, but are still in active service.

    If you are willing to throw the fluff out the window to bring Custodes and SoS into 40K tourneys, then you need to come up with another rationalization for banning CtA armies.

    Personally, I think the fluff is one of the strongest aspects of 40K. I’d like to see it preserved. We don’t need 30K units in 40K even if they created 40K rules for them in an effort to encourage narrative/casual gaming.

    It is certainly not fair to characterize the post as ‘somewhat unclear’ or a random screenshot as though it lacks authenticity. It isn’t fair to characterize the lack of detachment as an oversight. Nor is it fair to conflate them with other 30K units that are still in active usage in 40K like Contemptors. GW clearly has a plan for them linked to some future campaign that will definitely include a formation or detachment for using them. After the cation used when approaching the GW draft FAQ’s I’m surprised how much of a blind rush has accompanied the SoS and Custodes rules. We don’t need to go off half cocked, and do something dumb.

    I guess my biggest complaint here is that I feel like GW is doing everything right. Everything we asked of them. It might not be as fast as we want them to, but when they give thought to how we as players will use new units, and promise that they have plans for them in the future we should respect that behavior and not accuse them of the same-old BS that they’ve done in the past. If the headlong rush is about nerfing deathstars, then a tweak to Shadows in the Warp or Battle Brothers is a much, much easier, and more effective fix that doesn’t ignore the fact that GW did something right for once.

    Here is some fluff if you want to check me:
    http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Contemptor_Pattern_Dreadnought
    http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Sisters_of_Silence

    • Avatar
      Codi October 25, 2016 10:38 am #

      What happened to letting people play with their toys?? The only reason they are disallowed is because ITC disallows unbound. If ITC had not changed the rules we could use them in events, and there would be no discussion.

      I like the idea of creating a detachment for them with a single elite slot. With a 3 detachment limit that feels super restrictive. So it is hard to complain about it.

      Seriously just let people play with their toys; it is not a big deal.

  5. Avatar
    Cephalobeard October 25, 2016 5:06 am #

    Treat them like Assassins and Oathsworn, give them a detachment where the single unit is the formation.

    They do NOTHING but GOOD for the meta, imo.

    • Avatar
      Drachnyen October 25, 2016 5:14 am #

      Look at the last 10 major tournaments… who is on top? imperial armies mostly.

      Why do we need to give imperial armies more tools?

      Please tell me how this is good for the meta?

      If you want to help with the meta, there are plenty of other things to fix. (Battlebrothers, dreadnoughts, wraithknights, grav, orks, tyranids, …)

      • Avatar
        Cephalobeard October 25, 2016 7:48 am #

        Are these imperial armies not using psychic powers? I apologize that xenos races don’t have as many options to counter them, but that’s the nature of those builds. I can’t speak to why certain races have units others don’t. However, if imperials both have the most access to psychic and the most counters to psychic…?

      • Reecius
        Reecius October 25, 2016 9:14 am #

        Those Imperial Armies tend to be Deathstars or MSU. Sisters of Silence hurt their Deathstars just as much as the Xenos, Chaos, whatever. Imperial players do play against each other, haha. Unless of course, you think Deathstars are cool, in which case you would think they are bad.

        And when you say Dreadnoughts need to be fixed, what do you mean as you mention in the same breath as Wraithknights. Dreadnoughts are actually really good now with the boost to attacks. Wraithknights are too cheap but otherwise fine when limited to 1 per army as we’ve done. Grav sucks, yes, I agree there. As for Orks and Nids, rewriting a codex is a far cry from allowing two units in to the game…at least IMO. And Orks can hang just fine, actually, they do quite well. Definitely playing the game on hard mode, though.

    • Requizen
      Requizen October 25, 2016 6:05 am #

      I’m curious what you think either of these units is going to improve about the meta. The only thing that I can see being a positive is Sisters of Silence helping to counteract psychic deathstars, but we already have Culexuses that do the same thing, and they’re not exactly stemming the tide.

      • Avatar
        Cephalobeard October 25, 2016 7:51 am #

        I believe options are good. A cheap filler that can counter psychic if deemed useful is a good OPTION to have, and a deterrent to the idea, just as Reece said.

        The better question is why are they BAD for the Meta, in my opinion.

        I don’t believe screeching “REEEEE, ITS NEW AND ONLY IMPERIAL, BAAAD”

        or “DOESN’T FIT THE FLUFF” is valid for critique.

        • Avatar
          Cephalobeard October 25, 2016 8:00 am #

          That being said, if you disagree with me that’s fine. I’m not in the top of the circuit, I’m not a pro, my opinion is NOT the most informed.

          However, in my experience with most competitive things, OPTIONS are good, and OPTIONS that can IMPACT popular choices are always good.

        • Requizen
          Requizen October 25, 2016 8:02 am #

          They’re neither good nor bad for the meta. There are already things in the Imperial codices that do what they do (more or less). So yeah while it would be cool to allow more options, going in and straight changing rules “because it’s cool” sets a dangerous precedent, especially when it clearly only affects one part of the player base and not any of the other ones.

          As I’ve said, allow Unbound if people really want them. But then you have to allow everyone to run Unbound (with the same restrictions on Formations, Factions, and Lords of War, of course). Anything else is extremely lopsided changing of actual rules.

    • Reecius
      Reecius October 25, 2016 9:14 am #

      I am curious, give me an explanation for why the do nothing good? I am genuinely curious as I see a lot of good they can do.

      • Avatar
        Heldericht October 25, 2016 10:11 am #

        Reece, he said “Nothing BUT good”. He is agreeing with you. 😉

        • Reecius
          Reecius October 25, 2016 10:14 am #

          Lol, doh! My bad, haha

          • Avatar
            Cephalobeard October 25, 2016 2:02 pm
            #

            Yeah. 100% on Your side. Options are good. Be they imperial or otherwise.

  6. Avatar
    Leonix October 25, 2016 2:39 pm #

    Imo make them Lords of War… Both units are super rare in 40k.

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