Tuesday Night Fight Pre-Game: Tau vs. Astra Militarum

Hello everyone, we are not done showing off what the new Tau can do! This will be a fight you will not want to miss. We have Reece trying out the new Cadian Battle Force “Decurion” style detachment vs. Keith and his donkey punching Tau list. But who will be the Donkey, and who will be the puncher?! This and other highly intellectual questions will be answered, Tuesday night!

Make sure to tune in and find out 7:00 pm PST on twitch we will also be giving away some GW product so make sure to tune in, Subscribers get triple the chances to win!

tau.01

Keith’s List:

  • Primary Detachment: Tau Empire (Combined Arms Detachment)
  • HQ:
    • Commander – Drone Controller, Iridium Armor, Marker Drones x2
  • Troops:
    • Kroot x10, 1 Hound
    • Strikers x5
  • Fast Attack:
    • Y’Vahra – Early Warning Override, Stimulant Injector
  • Lord of War:
    • Stormsurge – Pulse Driver Cannon, Airbursting Fragmentation Projector, Shield Generator, Early Warning Override, Advanced Targeting System
  • Formations:
  • Drone Net:
    • Marker Drone x4
    • Marker Drone x4
    • Marker Drone x4
    • Marker Drone x4
  • Riptide Wing:
    • Riptide x1 – Heavy Burst Cannon, Smart Missile System, Early Warning Override, Stimulant Injector
    • Riptide x1 – Heavy Burst Cannon, Smart Missile System, Early Warning Override, Stimulant Injector
    • Riptide x1 – Ion Accelerator, Smart Missile System, Early Warning Override, Stimulant Injector
am.01

Reece’s list:

 

Cadian Battle Force 1850pts
Battle Group Command Description Size Cost
CCS P.Gun x 4 5 120
Chimera 1 65
Armoured Company
Vanquisher (Tank Command Squad) Commander, L.Cannon 1 175
Vanquisher (Tank Command Squad) L.cannon 1 145
Punisher M.Meltas, Dozer 1 165
Eradicator H.Bolters 1 140
Exterminator H.Bolters 1 150
Enginseer 1 40
Assault Company
CCS P.Gun x 4 5 120
Chimera 1 65
Veterans M.Gun x 2, H.Flamer 10 90
Taurox 1 50
Veterans M.Gun x 2, H.Flamer 10 90
Chimera 1 65
Veterans M.Gun x 2, H.Flamer 10 90
Chimera 1 65
Hellhound 1 125
Militarum Tempestus Platoon
Scions M.Gun x 2 5 90
Totals 57 1850

This is going to be a tough fight. Tau hit like a ton of bricks and Astra Militarum can pack a punch, too! Both armies will want to strike first. The Astra Militarum have the edge with mobile ObSec, but the Tau have the advantage with pore offensive power. Who do you all think will win?

[yop_poll id=”94″]

 

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Bryan
Bryan
6 years ago

Pray for Mojo.

Mojo = Reece in this case. That Tau list is pretty nasty.

Reecius
Admin
6 years ago
Reply to  Bryan

Yeah, we’ll see how it goes down, haha!

Ibushi
Ibushi
6 years ago

My prediction is that Reece seizes the initiative, has horrible dice and doesn’t do anything, then his boys get hammered for two turns by Tau double-shotting suits so he gets really, really salty, but then wins with sneaky obsec moves and playing to the mission.

Maeglin
Maeglin
6 years ago
Reply to  Ibushi

Otherwise known as plan B.

Reecius
Admin
6 years ago
Reply to  Ibushi

Lol.

DirtyDeeds
DirtyDeeds
6 years ago
Reply to  Ibushi

Reece stealing the initative on this game will be penance for our last game, lol.

Reecius
Admin
6 years ago
Reply to  DirtyDeeds

Haha, nice!

Maeglin
Maeglin
6 years ago

Sorry Reece I think the Tau will get this one. I’d have gone with the Artillery as the Auxiliary choice and forgone the infantry for once.

Reecius
Admin
6 years ago
Reply to  Maeglin

I don’t have a Manticore or I would have! I actually really like the Assault Company.

tag8833
tag8833
6 years ago
Reply to  Reecius

I think it is better for winning missions. The artillery are good, but there are never enough points to include them in a Cadian Battle Force at 1850. If you want to run the artillery formation, you run it alongside a CAD.

Reecius
Admin
6 years ago
Reply to  tag8833

Yeah, agreed. It is a great stand alone product.

winterman
6 years ago

Unfortunately Reece’s list is illegal. Its not intuitive and I missed it at first as well — but the restrictions for the Cadian Battle Group state “No unique models other than those listed here may be taken as part of this detachment.” Pask is listed as an option in the Battle Force Command, but not in the Emperor’s Fist Armoured Company. So while an Emperor’s Fist Armoured Company on its own could include Pask, while in the battle group he has to be in the command.

abusepuppy
6 years ago
Reply to  winterman

Hmm, interesting, I hadn’t thought of that. It makes a sort of sense, but it’s definitely not something that would be obvious at a first glance. Makes the Armored Company a lot harder to make use of.

Reecius
Admin
6 years ago
Reply to  abusepuppy

Yeah, if that is the case, that is a bummer. I see that reading, though.

Dakkath
Dakkath
6 years ago
Reply to  abusepuppy

It’s the main issue I’ve been having trying to write a list very similar to reece’s

Reecius
Admin
6 years ago
Reply to  Dakkath

Yeah, that is a bummer =/

Dasbeets
Dasbeets
6 years ago
Reply to  winterman

Really didn’t want you to be right, but you are. I went back and forth with the cadian detachment rules and the battle group. Winterman is correct.

This again makes the guard formations even harder to use. The battle group is almost unplayable below apoc games. The only use people will get out of these are adding formations to CADs.

Reecius
Admin
6 years ago
Reply to  Dasbeets

Yeah, the Cadian Battle Force is rough to field. The Infantry build I think would be very good, but who has the models?

tag8833
tag8833
6 years ago
Reply to  winterman

I missed it as well until you pointed it out.

That right there is a stupid rule. GW had no conception how people actually play 40K when they designed the Cadian Battle Group.

Its a shame. We’ve got lots of IG players in our local meta, and they are mainly demoralized about 40K right now, and I was hoping Cadian Battle Group might be enough to tempt one or two of them to become more active. GW Fail.

Reecius
Admin
6 years ago
Reply to  tag8833

Yeah, that is a big time bummer. Lol, this detachment is so hard to actually use.

AM are really good though, I seriously don’t know why AM players are so down. I rarely lose with mine and find them to be super fun to play, too.

tag8833
tag8833
6 years ago
Reply to  Reecius

When i see you play IG, you usually ally in marines. That offends most of the local IG diehards.

Lots of active duty and former military guys that like conventional warfare. Most of them long for “Tank Battles”. A few like the Russian aspect of hoards of disposable soldiers. All of them look down on allies and psychic powers, and sing the praise of 5th edition.

Its a funny little niche, but a surprisingly large one.

Reecius
Admin
6 years ago
Reply to  tag8833

I ally in Marines for fun, not because I think you need to. You can 100% play straight AM and do great.

But yeah, Tank Battles in 40k are silly. Vehicle rules are not the best.

winterman
6 years ago
Reply to  Reecius

I think its much the same as anyone with an army built around previous editions, fluff, rules or mechanics. 7ed AM needs allies and FW to stay competitive, not something your 3-5ed IG player is looking at as a positive.

Iddyhan
Iddyhan
6 years ago

The Tau list needs more tides, 7 of them to be precise and wraithknight, to keep your opponent distracted.

Reecius
Admin
6 years ago
Reply to  Iddyhan

Hahaha, that is Dirt McGurk status!

Dakkath
Dakkath
6 years ago

Can we please see a tau list that’s not just 2 stormsurge + riptide wing + misc.? I really want to see something with crisis suits in action. Even broadsides and ghostkeels.

RauPow
RauPow
6 years ago
Reply to  Dakkath

Its only 1 Stormsurge this time 🙂

Also, you will not see a highly-competitive Tau list that does not have a Riptide Wing and a Stormsurge.

Dakkath
Dakkath
6 years ago
Reply to  RauPow

I don’t see why not. Broadsides put out more firepower per point than either. A decent size crisis unit with a buffmander/buffvre does likewise. Both are mostly independent of markerlights as well. Attaching shadowsun to either vastly improved survivability. Speaking of shadowsun, camping a riptide within range of her command-link drone makes the nova charge profiles of its main weapons all that much better.

RauPow
RauPow
6 years ago
Reply to  Dakkath

It’s more about Survivabilty and Mobility. Broadsides are static and die easier (no FnP), causing them to flee where Riptides don’t. Also, with the Riptide Wing and Stormsurge (if you choose to anchor for a turn) the Double Shot turn can significantly change the game, giving you a free turn of extra shooting, something the Broadsides cannot. A crisis team is good, but with T4 and a 3+, they Alpha Strike then get wiped out. Plus they get really expensive with their upgrades.

As for Shadowsun, that is another topic. With the Infiltrate rule, she is regulated to being stuck with Kroot or Stealth Suits, keeping her from protecting Crisis or Broadside suits.

By no means am I saying there are no other good choices in the Codex; I am just saying Stormsurge and Riptide Wing are the core of any highly-competitive list.

abusepuppy
6 years ago
Reply to  Dakkath

The Stormsurge is important because it ends up being a way for Tau to kill several units they can’t otherwise handle very well- including the all-important Wraithknight. It’s not the _only_ way for them to deal with such units, but it it’s probably the cheapest/simplest way.

I’m a lot less impressed by the Riptide Wing; certainly it’s good, but I don’t feel it’s the mandatory inclusion so many seem to regard it as and the Tau lists without it seem to do a lot better than those with it.

Reecius
Admin
6 years ago
Reply to  abusepuppy

I think two Y’varhas would be better, honestly.

DirtyDeeds
DirtyDeeds
6 years ago
Reply to  abusepuppy

I’m getting to that point too, I wrote a theoretical list with two of them and an R’Varna supported by an Optimized Stealth Cadre. A whole army that doesn’t need markerlights!

Reecius
Admin
6 years ago
Reply to  DirtyDeeds

Right?! So good.

Harold Black
Harold Black
6 years ago

Yeah, gotta favor the Tau on this one. Reece might have to pick the low hanging fruit and prioritize first blood and warlord, kind of disappointed he didn’t take master of ordinance in his company command squads for a few pocket large blasts. I love the amount of AP2 in his list, but trying to close that gap to even the 24″ range to even get single shots off with his plas vets will be like figure skating on thin ice with soccer cleats. Also sad to not see Gunny Harker in this list. Relentless rending HB could probably give him some clutch plays (the character price tag is hefty, so I understand)

Reecius
Admin
6 years ago
Reply to  Harold Black

I have never, ever hit with the master of Ordnance, lol! Not one time.

And I can’t take Harker in this Detachment, he isn’t on the list of allowed Characters.

1PlusArmour
6 years ago

Nice! I will try to tune in to watch this.

Reecius
Admin
6 years ago
Reply to  1PlusArmour

Hope to see you there, buddy!

Jason
6 years ago

Pray for Omarion.

Cooper Waddell
Cooper Waddell
6 years ago

I predict a draw. A good old fashioned

Reecius
Admin
6 years ago
Reply to  Cooper Waddell

A draw is like kissing your sister!

Nightman
Nightman
6 years ago

Looks to be an interesting matchup!

tag8833
tag8833
6 years ago

One often forgotted trait of Lemun Russ Battle Tanks is that they always Tank Shock at S10, and they don’t face consequences for Tank Shocking.

S10 = 7 (1/2 Armor) + 1 (Tank) + 2 (Heavy)

No Consequences = “For the purpose of determining which weapons a Heavy vehicle can fire (and at what BS), Heavy vehicles are always treated as having remained Stationary” BRB page 88.

So generally, unless it would take you out of position, you want to tank shock any unit within range, and make them take a leadership test. The only exception would be Walkers, because they might be able to swing at you in your assault phase.

Reecius
Admin
6 years ago
Reply to  tag8833

I think you are combining Ram with Tank Shock, but yeah, I agree it is solid for Russes. ONly real risk like you said is something that can reliably DoR them or beat them up in melee.

tag8833
tag8833
6 years ago

Watching the game. It once again highlights the deep flaw of that ITC mission. 1st blood being the unique tertiary, and kill points being dependent more on list design than gameplay, the mission was more or less decided very early on.

Swapping 1st blood for Last Blood would be a gigantic fix to this mission, and maintain the “All-Killing-All-The-Time” philosophy to nerf battle Company.

Reecius
Admin
6 years ago
Reply to  tag8833

It is meant to help counter MSU armies, but I think the gripe is more with First Blood, honestly. It’s a contentious mission point and has been since it was introduced into the game.

tag8833
tag8833
6 years ago
Reply to  Reecius

I think 1st blood is great for a mission that involves board control like Crusade or Big Guns. I just think it works very poorly with Purge the Alien. Very Poorly. I’ve seen the 1st blood in this mission pick the champ at 2 different RTTs.

I’ve also seen plenty of games like the one in the Twitch feed where it demoralized the losing player early in the game and reduced the fun of the game substantially.

Reecius
Admin
6 years ago
Reply to  tag8833

Fair critique. It’s such a fine dance to get the missions balanced. On the other side of the coin, we were seeing MSU armies not give a crap about the KP mission as 6/11 points were about board control. So, in order to make it slightly more about actually destroying the enemy, we made it 6/11 points swayed in that direction. As MSU is so good at the other missions, we felt we needed a balancing effect to keep it fair.

tag8833
tag8833
6 years ago
Reply to  Reecius

I get it. It is a reasonable adjustment, though I would have liked to see other missions receive a similar recalibration.

The biggest problem was the choice of 1st blood. Any of the other “Kill Something” tertiaries would have worked better at keeping the game from getting decided so early.

In the End of season mission redesign, it would be great if you did something like NOVA or ETC and incooperated Kill points into each mission to help keep MSU in check a bit. That way you won’t have to worry so much about balancing the bonus points.

Another thing you might consider is doing away with the random rolls for your Maelstrom Table. “Pick 2, but you can’t pick the same one on consecutive turns” That way the unachievable turn 1 roll of control objectives in your opponent’s deployment zone wouldn’t be so punishing, and armies that operate without a backfield wouldn’t constantly be getting the shaft. Also it would alievate the need for better objective placement rules somewhat.

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