Signals from the Frontline #390

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Watch the live show on our Twitch Channel, at 11am PST!

Show Notes

11-20-2015

Intro

  • Follow us on Twitter, Facebook, Twitch, and YouTube!  Join our Forums, too! If you would like to be a guest on the show, email Reece at Contact@FrontlineGaming.org
  • We sell tabletop games and supplies at 20% off! Hit us up for your next gaming order at Orders@FrontlineGaming.org or visit our webstore at FrontlineGaming.org.
  • Cool nerd shirts!

News

  • We’re extremely pleased to unveil our new terrain kit! This is the first in the ITC Terrain Series, and these specific buildings were designed to blend perfectly with the Urban Combat 1 and 2 mats in our F.A.T. Mat range, although they can of course, be used with any of the mats. These will be available for purchase starting Monday, November 23rd! We are launching with a special sale offer, buy 2 and get the third, free! This sale will only be available through Monday, November 30th as a special, promotional offer to get people excited about the cool new kits!

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  • Titan Manufactorum releases images of a new Ork Gargant! Very cool.

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  • We’ve got so much awesomeness on the way for Black Friday, it isn’t even funny!
    • Get excited for deals on our new terrain, F.A.T. Mats, miniatures, and some CRAZY discounts on certain miniatures lines which we will tell you more about on Monday!

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  • Kromlech releases some new Monstrous Creature Wings which look to be pretty awesome bits.

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  • We’ve been playing Kingdom Death and wow, what a fun game! Tune in on Wednesday nights to check it out.

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  • Las Vegas Open will be bringing hobby classes back! Very excited for this. We’re just waiting on class descriptions to come in to get them posted. We will have classes Saturday and Sunday, and are considering night classes, too. Let us know if that appeals to you!

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  • Forge Wolrd puts pre-orders up for the Doom of Mymerea second edition as well as the new Skathach Wraithknights which look savage!

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  • The Edge are showing off previews of a new mini, the Chapter’s Holy Knight Cavalry…wow.

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  • We found a scale picture of the new Puppets War models and they look really cool, and are bigger than expected.

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Upcoming ITC Events

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We’ve got a vote coming up next week! We’ll be covering some popular topics such as Tank Shock, Coordinated Firepower, and the question that has been pretty hot lately, the Ork discount Stompa! We’ll also be altering the Kill Point ITC missions too, and changing its position in the line-up.

Adepticon is now on the ITC circuit! We are very proud to make that announcement. They’ve also put their format up, and it looks fun!

Rumors: The Rumor Section is gathered from the web and is not in any way information we receive from  any manufacturer nor is it necessarily accurate. This section of the podcast is intended for entertainment purposes only.

  • Been images of this FW Space Marine vehicle that is rumored to be coming out. It looks rad.

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  • The new Campaign book coming our way from GW looks great! It will have Farsight and his detachments as well as Cadian detachments, too! Sweeeet.
    • The Emperor’s Shield Infantry Platoon up on GW’s site says it is a part of the Cadian detachment, but it includes Heavy Weapons Squads and Sentinels…ouch! lol

Rant Session

Tactics Corner

  • Be sure to check the FLG Blog and the Tactics Corner, we’ve ramped up our content output and have some new writers helping to build a tactics database! We’ve got a ton of great Necron and Raven Guard coverage going and are gearing up to tackle another codex after we get Necrons done.

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Rules Lawyer

  • Again, huge thanks to the judging staff and the guys form TFG Radio, we’re getting caught up on rules questions! Check your inbox if you sent in a rule questoin, many of them have been answered, already.

Completed Commissions

  • Check out this gorgeous Tabletop Plus Imperial Knight! Painting@FrontlineGaming.org

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List Review

Hey guys,

I am a pretty avid Blood Angels player but I have found myself just using them as regular marines lately. This is because the new Space Marine codex is just so crazy good. I keep trying to come up with interesting things to make my Blood Angels really competitive against my competitive friends who play War Convocation, Gladius, Decurion, and Daemonkin. I, myself, am at this weird intersection between fluffy, cheesy, and competitive. This email is both a list for submission and a rules lawyer question.

I came up with a Blood Angels list that uses the Librarius detachment. I take 3 White Scar librarians with jump packs. For Blood Angels, the big draw is that I take 3 squads of Death Company.The idea is to attach one librarian to each of the Death Company Squads. Now here is where the rules blur a little. Do Blood Angels count as a chapter that would negate/cancel out the White Scars chapter tactics? Bell of Lost souls has this article on the question: http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/08/40k-rules-conundrum-the-astartes-rule-nobody-can-agree-on.html.

I tend to lean towards B even though I want to run the list really badly. I lean more towards B because the first part says “If a unit contains models drawn from two different chapters…”. The only thing that makes me think I can do this is the last line of the restrictions says “…it counts as from neither Chapter, and thus it benefits from neither Chapter Tactic”. Since Blood Angels don’t have chapter tactics then there is no case of two chapter tactics conflicting. This has pretty far reaching consequences because now you can do whacky things like take Korro’saro Khan and then take a White Scars IC on a bike in a unit and now that Unit has scout. Similar to what I am trying to do with the White Scars Librarians giving my DC hit & run. I am not sure what the Rules as Intended would be here honestly since the Dark Angels just released and I don’t think they have chapter tactics.

The only way this is possible is due to the wording of the White Scars (and Khan’s) special rules that apply this to the model. Hit & Run and Scout confer these rules to the unit based on a single model having it.

Could you guys also weigh in on giving the DC bolters vs bolt pistol + Chain swords? Both have positives and negatives. What psychic powers should I go for? Right now, I am inclined to go all 3 on telepathy.

Anyway, if everything is valid then here is the list.

 

Tj

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About Reecius

The fearless leader of the intrepid group of gamers gone retailers at Frontline Gaming!

12 Responses to “Signals from the Frontline #390”

  1. 1PlusArmour November 20, 2015 11:10 am #

    Guys, that price for the buildings is INCREDIBLE! Amazing stuff!

    • 1PlusArmour November 20, 2015 11:10 am #

      and 3rd free if you buy 2!?!? I’ll be in my bunk.

      • Reecius
        Reecius November 20, 2015 12:08 pm #

        Yessir! We’re really stoked with how they came out. That sale will be up through Monday the 30th!

        • Marcelo November 21, 2015 2:38 am #

          Long-time fan of everything you guys do for the community… Love the new product… What is the price for each piece and how do I put in an order? I’m probably being dense, but I didn’t see this in your online store. Can you post a link?

  2. iNcontroL November 20, 2015 3:53 pm #

    terrain looks awesome!

  3. tag8833 November 21, 2015 7:36 pm #

    I played 3 games today. There were probably 12 or more tank shocks. In one turn I tank shocked a unit 3 times, and killed a number of Ork boyz via Crunch by knocking them out of coherence. Tank shock isn’t poorly written. It is fairly complicated, but easy once your read the rules.

    It would seem that grammatically, the dependent clauses contain present participles (“leaving”, “Maintaining”, “Staying”) that indicate that they are adverbial clauses that are adverbially modifying the independent clause. I don’t have a degree in English, but I remember in junior high when I was learning the parts of speech, adverbs answer questions about the verb (“move”). In this case they are answering the questions “How?”. Grammatically, the present participle form of the verb wouldn’t be correct if it were establishing criteria for the next sentence.

    Consider the sentence. “You must exercise, running 3 miles, and swimming 1 mile.”. “Running” and “Swimming” are present participles that create adverbial clauses “running 3 miles” and “Swimming 1 mile”. It answers a question about the verb (exercise), specifically “How?”. The comma is needed to separate the dependent clauses, and is grammatically correct. The Tank Shock Sentence that you are struggling with has the same form.

    Even if I accept your grammatical parsing of the sentence, it doesn’t support the way you demoed the rules in the video. The independent Clause “those models must be moved out of the way by the shortest distance” The shortest distance will always be 0″ away from the Tank Shocking vehicle. So now you take the portion after Comma and apply it to Crunch “leaving at least 1″ between them and the vehicle whilst maintaining unit coherency and staying on the board.” Since All of the models were moved 0″ away from the vehicle, they violate the criteria that you are applying and get crunched.

    You are making an argument that you apply one of the adverbial clauses, but not the other 2 which doesn’t really make much sense.

    • Mike November 22, 2015 2:12 am #

      To be fair, he did mention in the show that he has been swayed to the other side of the tank shock viewpoint. Not sure if he means on the grammar aspect of the balance aspect though.

      • tag8833 November 22, 2015 6:52 am #

        I understood him to mean that he was swayed on the balance aspect (which he was never on the other side of), but it is important that he is also convinced on the grammar / rules side of it, because several of the rules misinterpretations sited as a justification for the version of Tank Shock used in the video open up other exploits and consequences that are a mess.

        For instance, he argues that the “Models in the Way” rule on Page 18 doesn’t apply to models forced to move by a Tank Shock. When asked why, he said that the “Models in the Way” rule only applied during the controlling players movement phase. The problem with this (besides the fact, that the rule explicitly says it applies to every phase except assault), is that it is the only rule keeping you from running through enemy models or running into base contact with enemy models, and thus starting a close combat without overwatch.

        Anytime you start fiddling with fundamental game mechanics on a mission to create an exploit it inevitably has consequences that sprawl out. The rules staff of frontline gaming is very influential in tournaments everywhere. We frequently use their FAQ’s at our events, and I frequently attend ITC format events. Every time the rules judges are willing to alter fundamental game mechanics at the whim of a mistaken grammatical exploit, it creates a complication and feel baddies at events.

        For instance, at LVO last year, a Similar grammatical exploit was used to change the outcome of a game. In this case, “Shadow in the Warp” was ruled to affect all enemy models whether they are psychers or not. I was playing Tyranids at LVO, and immediately wanted to use that rules reading in my future games, but was told that the ruling only applied to that one game, and would not apply to any future games. In essence they made a wrong ruling, and tried to correct it, but the reason for the wrong ruling was an acceptance of minor grammatical exploits altering fundamental game mechanics.

        They need to update their rulings to take into account basic game mechanics, and error on the side of supporting them. If they plan to alter the basic ways in which the game is played they had better be damn sure they got their RAW reading right. Making these sort of mistakes are bush league and always end up creating feel badsies at events, with ripple effects to all future events. They are fostering a climate that supports players who can make an argument to win games on the back of rules lawyering. People know this, and I’ve seen them intentionally misread rules (such as Shadows at LVO) in an attempt to play the FLG judging staff, and it has worked. They need to reject this approach to tournament play in favor of sound tactics and superior sportsmanship, and correctly approaching Tank Shock from RAW is the 1st step.

        They can still vote and alter the Tank Shock RAW via their FAQ, but maintaining the comma exploit as a viable reading is just dumb, and stands in the way of the creation of a sound and respected Tournament League that all of us aspire to foster.

  4. Noah November 21, 2015 10:43 pm #

    You know at first I was excited about the prospect of being able to run a 300 Pt. Stompa but that was quickly erased when Frankie brought up the issue of people allying them in just to get the Stompa. Your solution to make it only be allowed in an Ork army is a bit on the verge of the slippery slope you always talked about. At what point do we decide an army needs help or needs a nerf? Some people might not like Dark Eldar being able to ally in Eldar just to get a Wraithknight. As a dedicated Ork player it kills me to say that I would probably vote against making it Ork exclusive. If Orks can get it then the allies should as well.

    • Mike November 22, 2015 2:20 am #

      Agreed here. I would only support the “help out the pure orks” charity event if pure Blood Angels, pure Dark Eldar, and other books that are limping behind when used as standalone armies also got some love.

      Then again this could maybe squeak the door open wider for the FLG team to just break down and do a complete balance pass on the game. I would play the hell out of some ITC hammer over GW’s “forgethenarrative-lol hammer.”

      So yes, if the stompa “thing” is the first in a line of FLG rolling up some sleeves and rewiring some stuff, then it has my support even if this one doesn’t help me at all.

  5. Keith November 21, 2015 11:21 pm #

    Hi guys. Love the new terrain pieces. Are these going to be available on the UK webstore?

  6. Mike November 22, 2015 3:14 am #

    On the topic of the ITC vote, specifically re: non-event players voting.

    – I see the need to make sure the votes are legitimate for tournaments. This is the internet, and there be plenty of trolls. I’ve met a number of people who DESPISE any attempt to make 40k a decent game with a competent rule set for competitive play. I can only surmise that some of them are players of other games who wish that the warhams population would drop so that their own game becomes more popular, while some others may just want to watch the world burn.

    – I don’t see the need to bend over backwards to make sure everyone who plays with ITC rules in any form or fashion has a say in it, especially when that may compromise the primary reason for restricted voting.

    – Those that simply use the ITC rules in their local club and have no event experience…well…have no event experience! It would be like asking me to be a judge or write rules on a cooking competition show when I have no major cooking experience beyond little things at home. I’d have no right whatsoever to be there and influence things that are out of my understanding.

    – If they are wanting something in the ITC rules changed so they can play it a certain way in their local games, why don’t they just decide on it themselves? The ITC helps make a standardized game, yes, but that doesn’t mean you can’t still talk to the opponent before the game to figure out what you’re even doing there. If they like ITC rules just be like “hey can we try a game with ITC rules with one alteration that I’d like to play test?” If your local scene likes it, when you DO someday run an event, you can even have that addendum in the rules and still be an ITC event!

    So really, in closing I see no point in being worried that “Cory the casual player” isn’t getting to influence the rules that most ITC events will use for tournaments, and I think it’s honestly silly that this hypothetical person even thinks he should.

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