Let’s Get Ready to RUUUUUMBLE!! (Update 5 with two short podcasts)

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Well, today’s the day! We’re already pouring through everything, so be ready to get updates on the new edition of 40K! This post will be updated as we go!

So after about 5 games and seeing how the new mechanics play out my overall impression of the game is that we will have to rewrite a big chunk of the game in order to play it in tournaments. The game as it is right out of the book is borderline unplayable. They fixed a lot of the little problems, but the new problems they made break the game without some changes. For example, unbound armies, multiple primary FoC, using the mission cards without restrictions, etc. are not conducive to a fair game.

Some changes that will probably me needed: limits on FoC. Taking an army with one daemons, one grey knight and one Tyranid detachment is incredibly stupid. Beyond creating crazy combos, it’s just not fun. Or, more mundane, but equally fun killing, an army of all daemons heralds that summon thousands of points of daemons in one turn. Also stupid. Limits on warp charge. Unlimitted warp charge creates comically unbalanced situations wherein one player has over 30 warp charge and the other has 5 or so. It means one player essentially has no psychic phase. The mission cards on their own are incredible unbalanced. You often end up with situations where one player draws a good hand and the other doesn’t, and then the game is already decided.

We will also have to limit some of the powers possibly. Limiting warp.charge may solve it, but the malefic powers are crazy.

Invisibility is nutso. That and the fact that the 2+ reroll save didn’t go away means deathstars are better than ever in many ways. Again, we have to limit warp charge to begin to stop this or the game is going to degenerate into combo units again.

More play testing is needed but so far the game as is, is about 100 times worsethan it was for tournament play. With limitations on the crazy stuff, the are tighter in many ways.

I would say on first read through that this is more of an FAQ than an edition change. Now, the changes are subtle but mostly all good in terms of helping to fix things that were annoying which I like. There are some big changes in terms of how you make your army but honestly, most of those will be ignored in organized play as they are incredibly over-powering. The psychic phase is the real change to the game and it is useful in that it makes psychic powers less reliable. However, the game is like 90% exactly what it was before. I like a lot of the changes and you need the book to play the game so that is reason enough to buy it, but this is a pretty minor set of changes in total. The changes that are there largely fix some of the weird rules inconsistencies, some issues didn’t get fixed that needed to, and some loopholes seem to already be rearing their ugly heads.

The art book is pretty, but has very little content.

The fluff book is cool, especially for a new player, but for us older players it is all stuff we already know. I may have missed some new details but it is largely the same fluff as always.

  1. Malefic powers with Daemons are really, really, really crazy. It appears that you can reliably summon 3-4 units of Daemons a turn which can in turn generate more warp charge. It is quite easy to put a bucket of dice into the psychic phase every turn and simply overwhelm your opponent’s ability to stop your powers. Eldar, Grey Knights can do this too, IG to a lesser extent as well. Combined with a Portal Glyph and possibly Rift Bringer or the Warp Storm Table, you can just keep pumping buckets of Daemons into the game. It is pretty crazy. As of now, it seems OP, but we are playing it out to see how it goes. The powers are still unreliable to a degree, but the possibility of it happening is a bit nuts. UNless we’re missing something or an upcoming FAQ addresses some of this, it feels like way too much.
    1. Apparently no cap on Warp charge. We’re throwing over 30 dice in a single psychic phase, it’s insane.
    2. This army is insanely long to play. 4 hours in, still playing a game summoning daemons, it isn’t fun in the slightest.
      1. Frankie had crated over 1,000 points of new units by turn 2. By the end of the game, it was WAY over 2,000pts of new units.
    3. That game took almost 5 hours and it all came down to the cards. The Marines had 4 models left on the table, the game ended when they needed it to, they had mostly all cards they could play to score points and the Daemon player had half of the mission cards they literally couldn’t use under any circumstances, and so they ended up tying despite the Marine player had only 4 models left. The cards as a primary victory condition are far too random and they almost make playing the game pointless, might was well draw cards and see what happens, save yourself 3 hours. The missions as usual will have to be changed to be playable in a competitive setting.
  2. The mission cards are really random. Not so sure about them yet.
    1. A bit random but they do seem to balance out some of the insane inequities.
    2. The cards are mega random you need to limit some of categories of cards out of the game to keep the games from being completely pointless.
    3. You need to house rule that if a player draws a card they can’t score, they can discard it for free, otherwise playing the game becomes almost pointless, it all just comes down to luck of the draw in mission cards.
    4. Layering the missions to use perhaps a book mission and cards would make for relatively balanced missions.
  3. Unbound armies are so incredibly crazy that I doubt you will ever see them outside of for fun games. It wouldn’t even be fun in an Ard Boyz style event, really. I doubt we’ll even cover it much it’s so crazy. Unless an FAQ corrects something or we simply missed something important, unbound will never, ever see the light of day in organized play.
  4. You can no longer ally with yourself unless you use multiple detachments. I highly doubt most tournaments will allow multiple FoC as it gets insane, rapidly. So, no more Tau/Tau, Eldar/Eldar, etc. That also means Super Friends lists within the Space Marine book for example (including supplements) cannot ally with themselves. The BRB is clear that it doesn’t work and even specifies that supplements can’t ally with their parent codex despite the fact that almost all of the supplements say they can. Rules discrepancy…discuss!

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About Reecius

The fearless leader of the intrepid group of gamers gone retailers at Frontline Gaming!

160 Responses to “Let’s Get Ready to RUUUUUMBLE!! (Update 5 with two short podcasts)”

  1. Weidekuh May 23, 2014 11:34 am
    #

    Don’t forget to check out the new Invisibility, Fortune, Protect combo. 432 Bolter shots to kill one Warlock. You should try to get that in your battle report. 😛

    Looking forward to your updates! I’m still optimistic about 7th.

    • Mike Zoghby May 23, 2014 11:37 am
      #

      Warlocks don’t have an armor save for Protect to modify…

      • Reecius
        Reecius May 23, 2014 11:45 am
        #

        Those on bikes do.

        • Mike Zoghby May 23, 2014 11:57 am
          #

          Yep… regretted that comment as soon as I made it. I never run bikelocks so I forget…

          • bridges60 May 23, 2014 1:20 pm
            #

            they have a 4++ anyways

        • Fister May 23, 2014 3:59 pm
          #

          There are warlocks that aren’t on bikes???

          • Reecius
            Reecius May 23, 2014 5:19 pm
            #

            I have heard of them, lol, but like the Yeti, they are never seen by the eyes of men! haha

          • Km May 24, 2014 11:54 am
            #

            I’ve used them the odd time, they’re useful for giving shrouded to units of guardians in cover

      • Weidekuh May 23, 2014 11:57 am
        #

        Yeah, Jetbikes give a 3+.

    • Greggles May 23, 2014 11:57 am
      #

      I’d hope there would be a FAQ update for each relevant codex for 7th edition…considering they’ve been lax at updating them for so long. Maybe that’s why…

      Maybe I can hope a little bit.

      Maybe?

      • Reecius
        Reecius May 23, 2014 2:27 pm
        #

        There has to be an FAW or some armies are borderline unplayable.

    • Gordy May 23, 2014 2:00 pm
      #

      While that is nasty, the seer council took a lot of hits in other ways.

      • Reecius
        Reecius May 23, 2014 3:43 pm
        #

        I honestly don’t think the Seer Council lost much. Deathstars are sill alive and well =(

  2. Mike Zoghby May 23, 2014 11:36 am
    #

    Have you guys decided what you’ll play yet?

    • Reecius
      Reecius May 23, 2014 11:46 am
      #

      We don’t know what armies will be showing up, yet. And we’re still digesting the new rules, it will be a while yet until we get it all worked out.

      • Mike Zoghby May 23, 2014 11:58 am
        #

        So you obviously can’t comment on specific rules that aren’t out yet, but from rumours it looked like not much changed (except the Psychic gorilla obviously) – is that not true?

        • Reecius
          Reecius May 23, 2014 2:27 pm
          #

          Not much has changed, no. It is more of a big FAQ.

      • Crispy May 23, 2014 1:49 pm
        #

        Would love to see them junktacrons vs chaos or something 😀

  3. TableTopJosh May 23, 2014 11:40 am
    #

    WWWWAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!

    • doktor_g May 23, 2014 12:54 pm
      #

      Waaaaaaaaaagh!

  4. mercutioh May 23, 2014 12:23 pm
    #

    I so want to come down and listen to you guys do the podcast live. patience i do not have it

    • mercutioh May 23, 2014 12:49 pm
      #

      if i bring alcohol do you need a guest host lol

      • Reecius
        Reecius May 23, 2014 2:28 pm
        #

        Come on down, it’s oacked. JY2, Frankie, GTA, InControl, Tastey Taste, Capt’n Dees and many more are all here taking it all in.

        • mercutioh May 23, 2014 3:27 pm
          #

          how late you guys staying open tonight? I dont get off til 6

          • Reecius
            Reecius May 23, 2014 3:40 pm
            #

            We’ll be here late, I’m sure. Feel free to come by!

        • nkump May 23, 2014 4:38 pm
          #

          lol damn! WHY do i live in the effing MIDDLE of the US??

          -Sounds awesome…in case that wasn’t clear!

  5. Moridan May 23, 2014 1:03 pm
    #

    When are the orders going out? I can’t wait to get my books!

    • Reecius
      Reecius May 23, 2014 2:28 pm
      #

      Most of them should be going out today so long as you got your order in on time!

  6. Conflagration May 23, 2014 2:57 pm
    #

    Poor Incontrol bet he is crying in the corner about the nerf his skyblight took. Since we all know tyranids are op 😉

    • Smellofwetdog May 23, 2014 3:26 pm
      #

      Someone let GW know we all like dakka flyrants, they don’t need to be the only thing that ever gets a buff in the tyranid world. I mean all FMC took the vector strike hit but the tyrant was the only one that had a good amount of shooting and didn’t need to vector strike, AND had most of our psychic abilities to boot.

      At this point if I could field an army of all flyrants I probably would since there’s so little benefit to almost anything else in the book.
      Flyrant kit must’ve been sculpted by someone who’s now on the design team and gets a royalty or something.

      Really if the vector strike rumors are true it just means you dedicate your FMCs to anti air even more since that’s the best bang for the buck you’ll get. I run a multiple carnifex brood that’s pretty good at wiping out infantry maybe I’ll expand on that concept, although now they apparently won’t get cover saves… dunno. Gonna need some love from Geoff in here to help out.

      • Incarnet May 23, 2014 3:35 pm
        #

        If I understood the nature of the new army building you practically can build an army of all shooty FMCs and still call it Battle Forged. You take two minimal squads of troops for every two Flyrants and your golden (there is no limit to the number of detachments from what I have heard so you just need to meet the basic 1hq and 2 troops).

        • Reecius
          Reecius May 23, 2014 3:36 pm
          #

          Yup. But, most folks will simply limit the amount of detachments you can bring to the table. If you don’t, the game degenerates into crazy town.

          • Smellofwetdog May 23, 2014 7:46 pm
            #

            I was kidding about taking all flyrants, I’m fully aware plenty of people won’t be though lol. Really it was more lamenting the fact everything else in my book seems to be taking nerfs I can’t help but feel have to be aimed at other codexes.

            Did we need to make the crone/harpy more mediocre? Did we need to make my spawned gaunts not scoring?
            Did we need to make it easier to kill my MCs?
            We didn’t get those spore pods so them scoring now feels like an even bigger slap in the face.

            I know there’s some gold in here somewhere, just gotta find it, give me a reason to love 7 Reece!

      • Reecius
        Reecius May 23, 2014 3:39 pm
        #

        Vector Strike = 1 attack against ground targets AP2. D3 Attacks against flying units. You can’t assault if you flew last turn, so assault oriented flying monsters are even less viable now. It is fair compared to other units that can’t assault after moving fast.

        • nkump May 23, 2014 4:40 pm
          #

          WHY couldnt it be at most ap3…?? I just wish (personally) that Terminator armor wasnt so garbage…

          • Hugz4Genestealers May 23, 2014 8:53 pm
            #

            That 200+ pt monster did ONE ap2 wound to my terminator squad! Oh, the humanity!

          • Km May 24, 2014 12:01 pm
            #

            Its awesome as long as u place your terminator units properly so they’re fighting non ap2 units… I’ve had a single unit of terminators hold off an entire army of orks and necrons with no support simply by using a bottleneck and placing them so that only a certain amount of models could attack/shoot them! If you want sheer durability take th/ss termies, but they can do well when played with care

  7. Skari May 23, 2014 3:12 pm
    #

    Looking forward to coverage from you.

  8. TinBane May 23, 2014 3:24 pm
    #

    So, is it true all imperials are BBs, and BBs got a buff?

    • Reecius
      Reecius May 23, 2014 3:37 pm
      #

      Yes, but not much of a buff, really. But yeah, ALL Imps are BBs.

  9. BA Devastators May 23, 2014 3:26 pm
    #

    GW missed an opportunity not moving the fluff forward if they’re coming out with an edition change so soon. A lot were disappointed 6th ed. didn’t do this. Tough to look at this other than a cash grab after seeing what’s happened since December.

    • mercutioh May 23, 2014 3:40 pm
      #

      everything every company does is to get your money. Its called business. tourneys aren’t allowing multiple FOC again? what about lordz of war with the nerf to the d?
      I love love love the maelstron missions and mission deck fwiw

      • Reecius
        Reecius May 23, 2014 3:47 pm
        #

        The mission cards are REALLY random. To random, IMO from what we’ve seen so far.

        Lords of War got toned down with the D which is good, but a lot of them are still mega powerful.

        • Km May 24, 2014 12:04 pm
          #

          Random adds fun though… Trust me non-random games get boring after a few years!! (I played competitive level chess for several years and it was SO boring by the end…)

      • BADevastators May 23, 2014 6:58 pm
        #

        Yeah but alienating customers is counterproductive too when pirating is becoming more viable and 3d printing improving.

        • roar May 24, 2014 7:24 am
          #

          And, beyond those illegal means of “punishing” the company, there are the legal options, like supporting another game system that shows it’s customers more love.

  10. Welfstar May 23, 2014 3:36 pm
    #

    So you guys are live podcasting this evening? Is that right?

    -Welfstar

    • Reecius
      Reecius May 23, 2014 3:40 pm
      #

      We will be pod-casting throughout the day about the book, yes.

      • Gonewild40k May 23, 2014 6:43 pm
        #

        Are you live-streaming? If so, do you have a link that I can watch/listen?

        Thanks!

        • Reecius
          Reecius May 23, 2014 7:37 pm
          #

          No live stream, no. We will be updating this post though as we go.

  11. mercutioh May 23, 2014 3:44 pm
    #

    It just seems like GW is doubling down on the play the game you want to play we’re not going to stop abusive combos by limiting ways for you to play. For the tourney player I imagine that sucks, for the club/garage player. Its kind of awesome

    • nkump May 23, 2014 4:42 pm
      #

      Good point! It kind of seems like Tournament player = the same, but the others = awesome…so maybe thats worth it from a bottom like standpoint.

      • Reecius
        Reecius May 23, 2014 6:08 pm
        #

        It got MUCH worse for tournaments. The game is so out of balance at the tournament level that it is essentially unplayable.

        And for casual players as long you have a gentleman’s agreement to not take OP lists, you have complete freedom.

  12. RoockieBoy May 23, 2014 3:47 pm
    #

    Hi guys! Still no book for me, so reading every blog for information. I heard space marines CAN ally between themselves SALAMANDERS/ULTRAMARINES, for example, just because THEIR CODEX SAYS SO. What do you guys think, now that you’ve seen the book? Thanx a lot!

    • Reecius
      Reecius May 23, 2014 4:30 pm
      #

      Not sure yet, honestly. The BRB is really clear about it, saying that you cannot ally with your own book and goes on to state that supplements can’t ally with their parent codex and those all say they can, so I would say no.

      • Mike Zoghby May 23, 2014 5:56 pm
        #

        I’m reading on page 118 that “There is no limit to the number of detachments a Battle-forged army can include…” and then when you read the “Combined Arms” detachment (standard force org) there is no restriction listed – like in the “Allied” detachment – that the chosen units must be different from your “Primary” faction. So double force-org is still legal(?)

        • Reecius
          Reecius May 23, 2014 6:10 pm
          #

          Yeah, you can take as many primary detachments as you want so in that sense you can ally with yourself but that creates insanely OP lists in like 2 seconds. Imagine a list with 8 Flyrants and 8 units of Gants or something like that, it’s stupid.

  13. Japatoes May 23, 2014 4:27 pm
    #

    I saw SG tactics twitch stream and they said spawned troops don’t get objective secured. IMO this makes tan army focused on summoning much weaker.

    • Reecius
      Reecius May 23, 2014 4:31 pm
      #

      Somewhat. It only means they can’t take objectives from units with objective secured. It’s pretty damn crazy though, honestly. Daemons beat up on Taudar fairly easily with it.

      • Japatoes May 23, 2014 4:38 pm
        #

        True, but won’t that list struggle against a heavily mechanized list. BA can take scoring land raiders for 35 pts cheaper with their assault marines, and I bet daemons would have trouble with that.

        • nkump May 23, 2014 4:44 pm
          #

          Thats actually a pretty interesting point to me!

          -I almost would like to be an interview with FLG, for the mere fact that the last time i played competitively was 2e….which this very much feels like lol

        • Reecius
          Reecius May 23, 2014 5:20 pm
          #

          Yeah, lists that spam troops with transports, like Drop Pods or Rhinos, will do very well it seems at this point.

        • Marius Xerxes May 23, 2014 7:14 pm
          #

          BA are also supposed to be getting redone here by late summer/early fall. I never really concerned myself with what an army could currently do when it’s bound to change in a matter of months.

  14. Dankrobber May 23, 2014 5:18 pm
    #

    At least SW/SM Superfriends list could still be viable. On the subject , how is Hit and Run in 7th?

    What about consolidating into combat?

    • Reecius
      Reecius May 23, 2014 5:21 pm
      #

      H&R is the same.

      No consolidating into combat.

      SM/SW still works it appears.

    • Incarnet May 23, 2014 5:25 pm
      #

      No consolidating into combat is the general consensus on multiple feeds (I am not that far into my book yet). Close Combat armies still seem to be on the out (CC special characters got a bit of a boost with the wounds overflowing from challenges but armies that focus on close combat gribblies [wych cults, nid swarm] are still in for a lot of pain.)

      • Reecius
        Reecius May 23, 2014 5:26 pm
        #

        CC barely changed. Challenges changed slightly, but that’s it.

        The consolidating thing is explicit, it says point blank you can’t consolidate within 1″ of an enemy unit.

        • Incarnet May 23, 2014 5:41 pm
          #

          I had really hoped my little nid swarm and wych cult would have become worth something on the table… that part of this edition is just depressing me so far.

  15. Veriamp May 23, 2014 5:52 pm
    #

    Did you guys notice the half the army off the table rule is gone? the full drop pod or full reserve army is back.

    • Reecius
      Reecius May 23, 2014 6:11 pm
      #

      Full drop pod never was gone, but yes, that is awesome. Full reserves was a great tactic.

      • CptHygelac May 24, 2014 5:27 am
        #

        No more Legion of the Damned auto-lose one turn one!

    • Gargh May 24, 2014 12:40 am
      #

      Nah- there’s still the rule that if you have no units on the table at the end of a turn, you lose.

  16. mercutioh May 23, 2014 5:58 pm
    #

    horrors can’t cast malefic?

    • Reecius
      Reecius May 23, 2014 6:11 pm
      #

      It doesn’t appear so as their book says they can only take Tzeentch powers.

      • Hugz4Genestealers May 23, 2014 8:58 pm
        #

        Technically, no one can cast malefic powers yet.

        • Reecius
          Reecius May 23, 2014 9:37 pm
          #

          Yeah they can. The Psychic Deck shows us who can take what powers.

          • Hugz4Genestealers May 24, 2014 12:57 am
            #

            There’s a card that show which factions have access to which powers, but all 6E books list which disciplines any given psyker has access to, and obviously none of them list Daemonology.

  17. Oadius May 23, 2014 6:07 pm
    #

    I didn’t think GK got access to Maelific….

    • Reecius
      Reecius May 23, 2014 6:11 pm
      #

      They don’t.

  18. Oadius May 23, 2014 6:09 pm
    #

    “It wouldn’t be fun even in an Ard Boyz style event”

    Speak for yourself sir…..

    • Reecius
      Reecius May 23, 2014 6:12 pm
      #

      If you want to play unbound, go for it. Adepticon ran an unbound style event and all of 13 people showed up. In a competitive setting the wheels come off the boat without some restrictions.

  19. LordDrakon May 23, 2014 6:15 pm
    #

    Note, FMC and Zooming Fliers don’t score….

    • Reecius
      Reecius May 23, 2014 7:38 pm
      #

      Yup, that is a nice touch.

  20. mercutioh May 23, 2014 6:18 pm
    #

    Competitive play needs restrictions. It wasn’t casual play that brought out screamerstar or beaststar or seer council. If the name of the game is to win. And the best players are coming. Unbound events will not draw. The best players don’t have fun clubbing baby seals with 9 riptide lists and people who are just there to play are too scared to go up against something like that. Unbound is fun for giggles but I agree with Reece that it is too prone to abuse.

  21. LordDrakon May 23, 2014 6:23 pm
    #

    also yup, from what I read on the transport rules objective secured rhinos pods ect!

    • Reecius
      Reecius May 23, 2014 7:38 pm
      #

      Yeah, that is VERY powerful.

  22. gorkamorker May 23, 2014 6:28 pm
    #

    Pink horrors can take deamonology powers. The main rulebook says you can always take deamonology powers unless your codex or the rulebook specifically says you cannot. Also summoned daemon units get free instruments, chaos icons and character upgrades – super crazy.

    • mercutioh May 23, 2014 6:45 pm
      #

      thats what I hoped too Gorka, but horrors specifically say change only. it gave me a major bout of sad

      • Reecius
        Reecius May 23, 2014 7:38 pm
        #

        No, that is good. Daemons can create over 30 warp charge, it’s stupid.

        • mercutioh May 24, 2014 6:53 am
          #

          It may be stupid, but i kind of wanted to play that game. Horrors summon heralds which summon horrors which change heralds into bloodthirsters. I didn’t get into the screamerstar mode as I don’t own any screamers and 2++ seemed not fun to me. creating waves and waves of dudes for my opponents(who play tau Eldar and AM respectively) seems like a way I can keep up with them.

          But I get that it sucks for tourney players as broken combos are the name of the game and the game is riddled with broken combos.

          I would think Mission cards would allow for a good portion of that to go away though.

          Want to play 6 riptides? GREAT! your opponent playing MSU has 14 points by turn 2 good luck catching up.

          It’s the first time that I feel that the game really reflects the fluff with regards to Chaos though. THIS is an enemy that should cause the Imperium to shake in their boots.

          As you know I have huge respect for you guys and what you do so I’m not trying to discount this at all. Just trying to stay hopeful

          I’m really sorry I couldn’t make it down last night. I would have loved to talk shop and just soak it in with the heavy hitters you had in store. OLd Man-itis kicked in as the thought of 3 hours of driving to get in a game and maybe bs til midnight made me grumble and search the webs for 7th ed info.

  23. Red Corsair May 23, 2014 6:39 pm
    #

    Fething invisibility will ruin this edition. The should have made dispelling blessings a tad easier. Say for example you cast a warp charge 3 power and get 4 successful charges off, the dispelling player should only need to dispell enough to make the spell fizzle. In this example 2 dispells. making it one to one is incredibly stupid. Psychic armies just don’t care still.

    Again, Inviosibility is the only power any deathstar needs now. A seer council has 6 rolls to get it in the spell bank, then can throw all 15 dice at it saving one for their ghost helm. Stupid.

    • Reecius
      Reecius May 23, 2014 6:45 pm
      #

      Yeah, lol, there’s a lot of crazy stuff right now. I think we already broke the game.

      • Donzo May 23, 2014 7:10 pm
        #

        podcast sounded optimistic. agreed though, invisibility and shrouding are again 2 powers i hoped not to see… ugggh, simply too good with invisibility, as you said, thats the only power death stars need… hopefully with everything scoring the impact of dstars might be more limited.

    • winterman May 24, 2014 8:43 am
      #

      Then they face tau and 18 marker lights.

  24. DCannon4LIfe May 23, 2014 6:42 pm
    #

    Did the guys that played the test game follow the new order of events–placing objectives first (then terrain?) before determining table side?

    • Reecius
      Reecius May 23, 2014 7:39 pm
      #

      Yes, they played right out of the book.

  25. gorkamorker May 23, 2014 6:42 pm
    #

    You also get the primarus of your specific chaos god for free.

  26. Chuck May 23, 2014 6:59 pm
    #

    Reece, for the whole multiple detachment thing, are you going to just keep the “2 Detachments Max” rule? So you could potentially take 2 “Combined Arms” or 1 regular 1 ally, or 1 regular 1 formation? That way codices can still ally with themselves by taking 2 regular charts, but you curb the “lol 8 flyrants” or “lol 9 trench heralds” that my buddy came up with.

    • Reecius
      Reecius May 23, 2014 7:39 pm
      #

      I think we will stick with 2 detachments total.

  27. gorkamorker May 23, 2014 7:01 pm
    #

    Is there a faq or something? I don’t see why pink horrors can’t generate deamonology powers. they get the tzeentch primarus for free because of their chaos psychic focus and count as mastery 1 psychers so they can generate a power from change or take deamonology.

    • Reecius
      Reecius May 23, 2014 7:40 pm
      #

      They get extra warp charge if the unit is bigger than 10.

      • mercutioh May 24, 2014 6:55 am
        #

        so yea or nay on Horrors and Daemonology.

  28. Welfstar May 23, 2014 7:26 pm
    #

    I’m wondering if we’ll soon see inControl using multiple detachments at 1750 or 1850… Kosher for FLG video bat reps?

    • Reecius
      Reecius May 23, 2014 7:41 pm
      #

      I don’t think many tournaments will use multiple primary detachments unless folks want to play against 6 Riptides or Wraithknights.

  29. steven morrow May 23, 2014 7:32 pm
    #

    people in chariots are now fearless and relentless

    • Chuck May 23, 2014 8:12 pm
      #

      Chariots in general are really strong. When you shoot at them the controlling player gets to pick whether you hit the rider or the vehicle, the rider can challenge, and you have to roll against the riders WS even against the vehicle.

      Plus you hit front armor in CC.

  30. Shaydozer May 23, 2014 8:12 pm
    #

    I can’t find rules dealing with templates or blasts and multiple levels of ruins. What am I missing?!

    • Chuck May 23, 2014 8:14 pm
      #

      Check the Special Rules section at the very back.

  31. Umbo May 23, 2014 8:17 pm
    #

    I dont play nids but what they have done to them is very poor game design, no concept of balance at all, smash if going to be just one attack should have been AP1.

    The FOC thing is so stupid, and complex. Young kids wont have a clue, older players will think its plain lazy design and broken. Even with bound list you can take whatever you like it seems, want lots of one unit (6 x wraithknights etc.), want some inquisition for servo skulls and summon some deamons? want a imperial knight that scores? want tau tank hunting formation? want skyblight formation? Basically cherry pick all the good stuff and have an army of total mishmash, forging that narrative…

    I like allies but this has gone way OTT, special rules shouldnt be so easy to pass on and you shouldnt be able to have an army made up of several codexs. If any other system did what they had done with this release, I would image they would go out of business. I would just love to know how they go about making these decisions and do the board of directors have a clue about the actual game itself?

    We will have less chance of getting a standardized game, where you can go to a club with a list and know you will get the type of game you were looking for.

    • Reecius
      Reecius May 23, 2014 8:59 pm
      #

      Yeah, any semblance of balance is 100% gone.

  32. Chuck May 23, 2014 8:22 pm
    #

    Reece what are your thoughts in Psychic Focus vs. Chaos psychics focus? Specifically, if a chaos Psyker rolls on a non-god chart, can they ever get the free Primaris for rolling all on the same chart? They automatically get the chaos god Primaris power, so they know spells from two different disciplines, so my interpretation is that they’ll never actually benefit from the regular psychic focus rule.

  33. mercutioh May 23, 2014 8:57 pm
    #

    How do Challenges work now?

    • Reecius
      Reecius May 23, 2014 8:58 pm
      #

      Almost the same as before, but wounds carry over out of challenges.

    • Chosen of Khorne May 24, 2014 6:00 am
      #

      From my reading, it also seems that all the models in the unit can also attack the enemy unit that is involved in the challenge, not just the challengee, as long as all the other enemy models in the combat are dead ( or it was a single model). No more single model IC or MC challenging to prevent itself from being attacked by the rest of the unit.

  34. Slaede May 23, 2014 10:05 pm
    #

    If your initial games were anything like mine, you probably think this edition is a complete disaster.

    • Slaede May 23, 2014 10:29 pm
      #

      If you can’t summon Daemons to the board, you are playing at a 500 point handicap at least.

    • Reecius
      Reecius May 23, 2014 10:29 pm
      #

      It needs a rework to be playable in a competitive setting.

  35. GDT May 23, 2014 10:11 pm
    #

    Ahhh…. good thing I stopped painting my 40k models then. This sounds like double + unfun

  36. Slaede May 23, 2014 10:38 pm
    #

    Malefic Daemonology has to go. Objective secured Wave Serpents have to go. Invisibility is OP. Wyverns are OP and take way too long to resolve. Knights can’t be killed by a large number of armies anymore.

    • Slaede May 23, 2014 10:39 pm
      #

      That doesn’t even get into the death stars. Beaststars and Seer Councils have to go too. IG blobs are pretty OP if you leave them alone.

      • Slaede May 23, 2014 10:50 pm
        #

        I got a batrep up of the 2.5 turns we played in three hours before declaring the whole thing retarded.

        http://daemons40k.blogspot.com/2014/05/the-early-returns-are-not-good.html

        • Reecius
          Reecius May 23, 2014 11:31 pm
          #

          We just played a game that took over 5 hours and was one of the most boring games we’ve ever played.

          We have to really change things to make it playable for tournaments.

          • Slaede May 23, 2014 11:42 pm
            #

            Better do it fast. I was 15th at LVO and I really enjoyed the challenge of 40k tournaments, but I’m this close to jumping ship for Warmachine. The exodus from the game is going to accelerate.

    • mercutioh May 24, 2014 7:08 am
      #

      Hey man I love your stuff on 40k Daemons.So I’d love to know your opinion.

      Doesn’t some of this counter some of the other stuff? Like summoning MCs to tie up Knights?

      Wyverns counter summoned troop spam?

      MSU being massively relevant again over death stars?

      The answer now is Everything is Broken. Everything is OP. Just bring your flavor of it and see how your opponent reacts. I’m not a tourney player nor do I play one on TV(Going to my first GT this year! so Free wins for everyone who gets to play me!) but I see a lot of yin yang to the Force here.

      • Slaede May 24, 2014 9:43 am
        #

        Yeah you can certainly look at it that way. Someone was saying ruins no longer block artillery, so Wyverns could destroy all your summoning units in a turn or two. But if the game continues to be about who can bring the most broken OP thing the the table, you’re just going to get more and more people fed up with the whole mess and leaving for greener pastures.

        Technically 6th was pretty balanced. O’vesastar, flying circus, gravstar, beaststar/seer council, skyblight Nids and IG were all very capable of winning tournaments, but only by abusing special rule stacking. That’s what turned everybody off and this edition is the same thing turned up to 11.

  37. CNitram May 23, 2014 10:46 pm
    #

    Perils on 2 or more 6’s, when you need 4+ to succeed, pretty much rules out psykers as your warlord for pretty much everyone but Eldar, Nids, & Daemons. I feel like 1’s would’ve been better for Perils just like for the “Get’s Hot” rule.

    • Reecius
      Reecius May 23, 2014 11:31 pm
      #

      Not really, so long as you have a psyker with 3+ wounds. Fateweaver for example, is fine.

  38. Prindlehaven May 24, 2014 12:35 am
    #

    Reece, don’t have the book in front of me, but I did get a copy and I’m sure it says something about discarding unwanted mission cards. If I remember correctly, once you achieve a mission objective, you are given the opportunity to discard any number of cards, which of course will be replenished at the start of your next turn as per the chosen scenario.

  39. Gargh May 24, 2014 12:49 am
    #

    To be fair, from the minute 7th was announced it was clear tournaments would need to impose restrictions. The first thing the internet knew for sure about it was unbound lists.

    On the subject of psychic powers, I find the rules really ambiguous. Is a unit of Warlocks a ‘psyker unit’? Or is each individual Warlock a ‘psyker unit’? The former seems to make sense, except that when you get to Perils it stops talking about units and starts saying ‘the psyker’. Seems like you could interpret it to let a friendly Farseer take all the Perils tests for the Warlocks.

    • Gargh May 24, 2014 1:04 am
      #

      …also if each Warlock does count as a ‘unit’, then the rule about a ‘psyker unit’ only being able to attempt the same spell once a turn is much less important.

  40. Vetofshortwar May 24, 2014 2:20 am
    #

    So after reading the new book something caught my eye and I was wondering if some could help clear it up, it’s on page 11 and it says “if two or more special rules combine to the effect that both all failed and all successful dice results would have to be re-rolled, do not re-roll any dice; simply use the original result(s) instead.”

    • Incarnet May 24, 2014 12:22 pm
      #

      It works like this: If my unit has a rule that states I get to re-roll all failed to hit rolls and your unit has a rule that states I have to re-roll all successful we used to have the player just pick up all the dice and re-roll them (thus complying with both rules by re-rolling all failures and all successes) the rules now state that instead of doing that you simply take the result of the original roll.

  41. Gargh May 24, 2014 2:22 am
    #

    Also, while I’m commenting… it’s hilarious how the rules about ICs conferring Infiltrate are STILL unclear (but, if you read logically, don’t allow conferring). I know I sent them an email asking for a FAQ on that at least a year ago, and I’m sure I wasn’t the only one.

  42. Skari May 24, 2014 3:37 am
    #

    As a dark eldar player. The change that surprises me the most is flamers hitting passengers on open topped vehicles.

    • cavalier May 24, 2014 4:17 am
      #

      Ugh… you gotta be kidding me.

    • Incarnet May 24, 2014 12:24 pm
      #

      Holy crap! I didn’t even see that rule. My aspirations to play my Dark Eldar and Orks were already down, now it just feels like I am getting kicked in the nuts for paying $85.

  43. Welfstar May 24, 2014 4:14 am
    #

    I’ve got a game tonight with my buddy who seems pretty keen on using multi primary FOC. We’ll see how it goes, haha. Seems like something we’ll have to house rule out, perhaps following FLG’s lead…

    Looking forward to more content over the next days from you guys. Whether or not the book’s a home run or a lemon, these edition drop weekends are pretty exciting, aren’t they?

    • mercutioh May 24, 2014 6:57 am
      #

      glad to see someone else that’s stoked for the new game’s potential!

  44. Septimus May 24, 2014 4:54 am
    #

    I saw this comment on Slaede’s blog: I’m not so sure that I agree with everyone’s interpretation of FMC not being able to assault.

    I think the “changing flight modes” is in reference more towards the possibility if I pick swooping in the current turn, then get grounded (perhaps I perils, take a hit, then get grounded); this would then stop the possibility of charging after getting grounded.

    I think the key phase is you have to declare whether you are swooping or gliding “until the start of your next turn.” Essentially, I am neither swooping nor gliding at the beginning of my turn; I zero out my flight mode so to speak. By choosing swooping in the previous turn and gliding the in the current turn I am not changing flight modes in this turn.

    But, I could be wrong. The rest of the rules may be necessary to fully understand the ruling. This is just my opinion based on this wording.

    After checking the picture of the rule (don’t have the book), I agree with this guy. Yea.. could be wrong, but being able to do nothing for a whole turn seems too stupid.

  45. umbo May 24, 2014 5:18 am
    #

    I felt so annoyed by gw disregard to a large portion of its fan base I wrote a complaint..

    I could take the rising in prices as the quality of models was great.However the latest ruleset attitude of do what you want and sort it out between yourself seem likes a very lazy and poor game design. You gave no consideration to players who like to use tactics and give great thought to battlepland. Rather you prefer people forge the narrative and one person get stomped repeatly by units and armies that can’t be matched by a normal force. Its not even closely enjoyable to be beaten badly regularly and people have limited players to play. Player numbers are dropping fast and you designed the worst army selection mechanics I have ever read.I have designed my own games before and have created many statistical models to create balance so everyone has a fair game. You seem to think making over powered armies sell well now but wait for the long term. This will be the edition that cripples games workshop. Please in future release beta rules and let people test for you. You will create a better game and more people will recommend it to their friends like I used too. Kind regards

    • mercutioh May 24, 2014 7:02 am
      #

      They actually addressed a large portion of their fan bases complaints in this edition.

      They’re doubling down on the forge the narrative stance yes. But everyone forgets. TO’s can forge the freaking narrative too. IF something seems not fun. The TO’s have gotten together and started to get to a consensus of what should and shouldn’t be happening in competitive 40k

      You only get stomped repeatedly if you allow someone to do so. And I’m not saying “Hate losing? Stop sucking so much!” I’m saying the other person across the table is a human being. If you see seer council for the 15th time. TALK TO THEM! “Hey man, I understand you have a power list, but I’m really not up to speed with something that churns out a 2++ rerollable save. Can you play something else so we can be competitive?”

      Surprisingly most players will say “Sure man, I just want to get a game in!”

      If the problem is we need GW to police the community from “that Guy” Then the issue isn’t GW. It’s us for being too introverted to actually talk to our opponents and create an understanding.

  46. Vidar May 24, 2014 5:53 am
    #

    God Damn It! I was really hopeful for this edition.

    • Cameron May 24, 2014 2:46 pm
      #

      Yep. I was curious, but I’m not going to bother now. Back to Dropzone.

  47. Krieg XXIX May 24, 2014 6:45 am
    #

    Reece – The warp charge thing is easy. Cap it at 12 max per side like WFB. That way the players can get a couple of powers off and can’t completely nullify a player that didn’t 15+ psykers.

    • Smellofwetdog May 24, 2014 12:48 pm
      #

      In November I read up on WFB as I used to play that back in the day to see the state of it. Based on what I read as the general perception of that current edition I wouldn’t have imagined GW would bork up 40k to the level people are saying: “do what fantasy does”.

  48. Hotsauceman1 May 24, 2014 7:23 am
    #

    I fully expect no real orginized play to do unbound. Malefic powers might get banned. That sounds like the problem you guys are having(Other then warp charges)

    • Hotsauceman1 May 24, 2014 7:56 am
      #

      Another question, the rules say unit may not attempt to manifest the same power, does the mean seercouncil can now only cast fortune once per turn?

  49. Jason Brown May 24, 2014 8:20 am
    #

    For armies that summon/spawn in tournie play, just make a rule that you can’t have more than the points of the tournament on the table or in reserves. Still makes them very strong but keeps you from having a 5k game. Simple easy elegant solution.

    • umbo May 24, 2014 8:35 am
      #

      Not that simple as you would have to keep counting exact points during game. We need a large tournament to allow everything (bar silly multiple FOCs) and see what happens…. good luck to TOs across the globe as making a rulepack now requires a law degree

      • Jason Brown May 24, 2014 9:34 am
        #

        Not really, just look at what’s off the table.

  50. ChaosReigns May 24, 2014 8:43 am
    #

    Honestly, it seems from my interpretation that some of the inherent imbalances will force TOs to fix the game competitively. The mistake I feel people are making is seeing this as a bad thing. I know I’m being optimistic as I do not yet have my book, but hopefully the limitations that need to be set will be quite simple to do. Ie, limiting army composition (no brainer and now all TOs will agree). Psyker limitations (daemonology and warp charge caps [that bit will be necessary]). With any luck, the changes will be easy to find and be moderately clean. I feel if it’s given the old college try, we may eventually enjoy this edition. Not only for the freedom for the casual player and collector to build cool, fluffy lists, but also for the competitive player if we can introduce the needed checks and balances. If we could get competitively play as fun and rewarding as 5th was (to me), I’d be straight chuffed.

    • Hotsauceman1 May 24, 2014 8:46 am
      #

      Im for it now too. ban Unbound and Malefic powers. Cap Warpcharge dice and we may get somewhere to a decently playable game

  51. Gavik Dross May 24, 2014 9:42 am
    #

    One question I’ve been thinking over is if my bikes jink can they assault in the next turn?
    Thanks for all the posting the more info the better.

  52. bonesaww666 May 24, 2014 11:26 am
    #

    Well, it just appears that much like Fantasy, he who has the bigger badder “Wizard” wins.

    In Fantasy games can often be decided (assuming tactical competence and list building finesse on both ends) by the Lore a Wizard has access to and their I are ability to force powers through.

    Dark Elves weren’t globally reviled for their wicked armour, it was the ability to force spells past near any defence that made them so goddamn sweet.

    7th Tzeentch lists from Fantasy have hit the table of 7th 40k!? WTF!?

    I despised having to bring a Level 4 Wizard every game lest you be stomped into a coma during the magic phase, it was restrictive to Khorne Players (especially once the Spell Breakers went the way of the dodo) or anyone who just wanted a Close Combat character, unless you fell under a horde army and ones Lords were cheap as chips and taking 2 became viable (that’s how Fantasy hit the 2,500 mark for more standard games).

    Now I’m going to be pigeon holed into the same horse shit if I want to increase my chances of dispelling.

    I feel like a turd, as I had been by far one of the most optimistic amongst my gaming circle… I feel like someone shit on my chest.

  53. bonesaww666 May 24, 2014 11:28 am
    #

    Funny:^^^^
    I’ve actually paid Gee-dub thousands over the years to drop that hot patch on me.

  54. Veriamp May 24, 2014 12:42 pm
    #

    I am sorely disappointed there is no Faq/errata yet.

    • Smellofwetdog May 24, 2014 1:03 pm
      #

      Release day FAQ, awesome job, like release day software vulnerabilities.

      • Veriamp May 24, 2014 1:24 pm
        #

        There was a day 1 faq for 6th if you remember filling in the gaps that didn’t quite make the transitions that well in the codexes. ie disembarking from night scythes.

  55. Rob May 24, 2014 2:04 pm
    #

    I have been playing 40K since 1992 and I am done as of now. 7th ed proves that when GW says it has no interest in designing a game for competitive play they really really meant it. I have a glimmer of hope that Reecius and other TO’s may be able to stem the bleeding but in reality I don’t think you can fix what doesn’t want to be fixed. GW will continue to release rules and models that make no sense are fundamentally broken. We as a community have spotted gaping holes in their system in less than 24 hours. It is clear they have no respect for us and I am having a problem continueing to give my money to a company that has no respect for me.

    Dropzone is a blast, very balances and the owner and games designer is actively interested in balance. Warma-Hordes is good as well. 40K is no longer the only game in town.

  56. Trokair May 24, 2014 2:07 pm
    #

    The GW forest and battlescape terrain kits still give you a 5+ cover save like they use to do in 6th. So I think it is save to say that terain just still give you a 5+ without the need of 25% obscured. But no more +2 when going to ground just the 1+.