Astra Militarum / Imperial Guard First Impressions Review

Renegade Imperial Guard

Reecius here to give first impressions on the new IG codex, now called Astra Miltarum. Check the Tactics Corner for more reviews!

OK, so standard caveats apply: This is not a comprehensive review. This is after my first reading of the book. My opinions can and probably will change. I also probably get a few details wrong. Enjoy!

First Reaction:

I like this book a lot! Some of the changes are bad, some are benign, a lot good, but in general this is a book that is going to hit the scene with a big impact. I give it two thumbs up.

Pros:

A lot of the units that were out of whack on points have been corrected. For example, the Vendetta was WAY under priced. It has been adjusted up to a fair price point. Leman Russes were WAY overpriced for many variants, and they have been adjusted down to much more fair cost…perhaps in some cases even a bit too low.

Orders are absolutely brutal. The IG version of psychic powers and wow, they are damn good. You always know which ones your’re getting, there is little downside to them and the enemy has few if any options for shutting them down. You can ignore cover, grant Split Fire to a unit, grant Precision Strike (holy crap!!) to a unit, First Rank Fire, Second Rank Fire, Shoot and then Run, get Pinning! shots, run with 3d6″, gain Tank Hunter and Monster Hunter, and auto-recover from being pinned or falling back. Not bad at all.

These orders are pretty savage. Giving a blob squad Precision Strike or Ignores Cover can be devastating. You can snipe ALL of the good models out of a unit. That’s crazy. You can do the old “hide behind the aegis for a 2+ and then get back up” trick, etc. The utility in these is pretty incredible. I see a lot of IG lists with 2 Command Squads, particularly considering some of the wargear you can take.

Take a look at this IG force!

The Regimental Advisers and out of FoC HQ choices are really solid, too. Priests are fantastic. For a measly 25pts, you get an IC that grants Zealot to its unit as well as War Hymns which can let you reroll failed saves in combat or to wound rolls in combat. As it appears you can do this to ANY unit the priest joins, this gets bananas, fast. Hammernators with rerolls on armor and invul saves? Or a Blob Squad with Azrael or Forewarning on it with rerolls? Holy crap. But, considering he is only Ld7, he will only get this ability off roughly half the time. Still, Zealot and a 4++ on an IC for 25pts is worth it alone. I see many a priest spreading the good word of the Emperor in the near future!

There are a lot more of these little goodies in there, too. Primaris Psykers are a 0-3 choice, all ICs that can join a unit and have access to Divination for only double the priest. That is nuts. For half again that cost, you can bump up to a level 2 psyker. Enginseers are better than they were still not great, though. You can grant Power of the Machine Spirit to a vehicle which immediately made me think of the Manticore, but unfortunately you can’t fire more than one of its missiles a turn.

The Master of the Ordnance is pretty hot now at a low point cost, and can now subtract his BS from his shot. For that points cost vs. potential damage output, I see him in many, many lists. The Astropath and Officer of the Fleet are good and cheap, but at Ld7 with a leadership check to activate their abilities both of them are less likely to get their powers off (+1/-1 to reserves or Telepathy powers).

Yarrick is improved. With a points reduction and a 4++, still with EW and getting up on a 3+ if killed, he is a solid choice for a Warlord that can deny points to the enemy by getting back up and he packs a wallop in a fight for a reasonable price. Lord Commissars are still solid, too at a low price point and granting a leadership bubble. He can also give orders!

mordian guard 05

The troops are all rock solid, too. You still have platoon squads as they were with minor changes. You can blob up, access lots of units, and you can get really, really cheap conscripts. At 3pts a pop, will make fantastic meat shields for beat-sick characters. Everything you remember about these guys kicking ass, still holds true in this edition.

Veterans got a boost. Veterans have always been the hawtness, but with a 10pt reduction in cost (at the cost of Krak Grenades which you can get back at the cost of 10pts) they get all the same options, but at a lower price point in general. Heavy Flamers are only half the cost they were, which rocks, and the upgrades for doctrines are generally much cheaper in cost. You can get essentially defensive grenades and Stealth for a measly 10pts, Carapace Armor for not much more, and Melta Bombs and a Demo Charge for three times the first. Not bad at all. I think a lot of folks are going to be using Vets and they are a really solid alternate to the beefy Platoon Squads.

Wyrdvane Psykers, aka, Psyker Battle Squads are pretty solid, At a reasonable price point 10pts over a Platoon Squad, you get a Brotherhood of Psykers unit with access to Divination. Not bad at all. They are only Ld8, but, between they and the Primaris Psykers you can get a whopping 6 Divination psykers on the board! WOW. Between that and the IG wargear and orders, you can reroll damn near everything. And, that many chances at Misfortune is a great answer to many deathstar units.

Armored Sentinels got better. Still not a competitive choice, but hey, at least now they are something to consider. The models are cool.

Leman Russ tanks went BEEFCAKE! Holy crap. They dropped in points in a huge way. You can get these beastly tanks at a bargain price. Some as low as 120pts! For an AV14 vehicle, that is really fantastic. You still have the issue of Ordnance forcing snap fire which precludes firing template or blast weapons. But, for the points reduction, that is something I can live with. Yes, Plasmacutioners now Gets Hot! but with access to so much Divination, it shouldn’t be an issue. Punishers and Eradicators I see being very popular. As a tank lover with 8 Leman Russes, I can’t wait to get them on the table!

The artillery choices are still solid. The Bassie and Manticore are still awesome. The Deathstrike has stayed roughly the same as before, aka, not competitive, but oh well. They’re fun! The Wyern though, is solid. Basically rerolling everything, ignoring cover, Barrage, and good range, this things will smoke infantry. Xenos particularly, will fear this unit. And at a crazy low price point, these guys will be very popular. The only issue will be competing with Leman Russes.

Christian "ChristianA" Alessi's Imperial Guard

The transport vehicles are still very good. The Chimera went up 10pts, but hey, who didn’t see that coming? It is still a great value, and still a great offensive transport. The Taurox and Taurox prime are also both solid transport vehicles with good offensive capability. All the transports provide solid, fairly costed options.

Hellhounds and variants are still great tanks. Fast, flexible, and filling a ton of gaps in a list. The Hellhound is still the best option, IMO, and got a points drop, nice! The others remained largely the same, but are still good situationally.

Vendettas and Valks are still good, even with the points increase. They were way under-priced before, but you will still seem them now at these points levels. The vendetta got a transport reduction, but personally the only units I ever saw in them to begin with were PCSs and SWSs. They still fit.

The Relics range from meh, to amazing. The standouts grant the ability to use more orders, choose to pass of fail morale checks in a 6″ radius, and, the AMAZING one, Preferred Enemy to all units in 6″. Holy. Crap. Even at 10pts over the cost of a platoon squad, that is incredible. Just imagine a few blob squads with preferred enemy…Punisher tanks…Ogryns, etc. Anything with lots of attacks will gain exponentially more benefit from this ability. Especially things like Plasma weapons, for example. Not bad. Not bad at all.

The so-so:

Some units kind of hit a dry note with me. Not bad, not great, but kind of in the middle.

Tank Commanders were really exciting at first, but, you have to take 2 tanks to fulfill this HQ choice. Weak. As one of them will be BS4, often with the temptation to take Pask (who is CRAZY good) the others are normal. That means you end up with situations where you don’t want to shoot two tanks at the same target, often because the BS4 tank will be tempted to use high rate of fire weapons. You often don’t need to double down with these types of units, especially not at so many points extra. Pask especially exacerbates this issue as while he grants Rending to a Punisher or Exterminator (which is beastly) but the extra tank kind of gets in the way. Yes, you can split fire with the Tank orders, but at Ld9, it will fail you on occasion. For the huge points investment it takes to field this unit, it is too unreliable for a competitive list, IMO. It’s not bad, but not efficient enough to rate as a top pick for me.

Heavy Weapons Squads are still garbage. There are way, way, way too many things that are strength 6+, Ignores Cover weapons for these units to be taken in a competitive meta.

Ogryns and Bullgryns. I want to badly to like them. They can be good, with support they can do some work, but on their own, they are pretty middling. Ogryns actually got nerfed a bit, losing Furious Charge but gaining Hammer of Wrath. Bullgryns are pricey but with some good abilities such as adding cover saves to units behind them, or being able to get a 5++ and Power maul, for example. With support, these units will be able to make some beastly units, even some cool and reasonable Deathstars (reasonable in that they aren’t invincible).

Ratlings are cool, still provide fun sniper fire and now can shoot, then move, but are still not ultra competitive. Shooting and then moving sounds cool but think about how you actually apply this? If they shoot, then hide, the next turn they have to move out of hiding and then snap fire. Perhaps I don’t see it yet, but a unit with heavy weapons usually finds a solid fire position and then stays there. The shoot and then move will be situationally good, but nothing to plan on. Ratlings are just pricey, honestly, for a T2, Ld6 unit. Space Marine Scout snipers are only a point more and infinitely better, even with lower BS.

Scions look promising, but I have not tried them yet. So, I put them here for now. They have a lot of utility abilities like Deep Strike, and AP3 shooting, but they are expensive in points for a T3 model. We’ll see how they pan out.

Leman Russ

The Bad:

Well, obviously, the units that are missing suck. Penal Legionnaires, Marbo, Griffons, etc. Bummer. But, GW probably doesn’t want to have another company come and make the models. Le sigh.

Basic Commissars are crummy, too. Expensive, easily sniped out of a unit, might kill a valuable squad mate if you fail a morale check (really, your opponent can choose who gets executed 1/3 of the time?). I don’t see them getting much use.

Scout Sentinels are still garbage. Damn.

Roughriders didn’t get much of anything but a slight points bump. Lame. Another unit I would love to love, but they still don’t have much to offer, unfortunately.

The Hydra got nerfed, which is a bummer. They went down 5pts, but, are now open topped and don’t ignore jink saves. Lame. Take one look at the Stalker and weep bitter tears. Now, I am being a bit melodramatic, but, it does stink. They were fine before. I think most IG players will simply count on massed twin linked firepower to deal with flyers. Or allies.

Conclusions:

We have a lot of play-testing to do, but, this book makes me happy to read. Unlike the Tyranid book which made me so sad, lol! There are a few stinkers in here but in general terms, this is a heavy hitting book that will be top tier. This book has all the tools it needs to win in it’s own codex, but with allies will be a new top contender.

What do you all think?

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About Reecius

The fearless leader of the intrepid group of gamers gone retailers at Frontline Gaming!

96 Responses to “Astra Militarum / Imperial Guard First Impressions Review”

  1. Hotsauceman1 April 11, 2014 7:29 pm
    #

    What do vets look like? Im thinking of starting an Elysian drop troop army and I would want to use them

    • Red Corsair April 11, 2014 7:37 pm
      #

      Basically unchanged. The biggest hit for me is the loss of gunslinger sarges from all infantry except rough riders do to poor armory wording.

      Not overly competitive but I loved me dual plasma pistol gunfighters.

      Aside from that, they are basically the same, with cheaper doctrines but a crapier Harker.

      • Gordon April 11, 2014 11:06 pm
        #

        Vets are basically the same, except cheaper. And you can’t fit them in Vendettas anymore.

  2. Red Corsair April 11, 2014 7:35 pm
    #

    I think the new sttorm troopers can be absolutely lethal when paired with an auger array on say a hellhound.

    The ability to precision DS 4, count them 4 msu special weapon totting units all in one go is bananas. Thats 10 SW good sir, and it only eats one elite slot. pair things like this with the precision shot order and you can send 8 plasma shots or 4 meltas from the command into that annoying buffmander or farseer. Food for thought anyway.

    • Reecius
      Reecius April 12, 2014 10:19 am
      #

      That’s a really good idea, actually! Or on a Sentinel.

      • Red Corsair April 12, 2014 11:21 am
        #

        Yea it’s about fricken time I have a reasonable way to use at least some of my 40 metal storm troops lol.

  3. Skari April 11, 2014 7:38 pm
    #

    So pumped.

  4. Pablo April 11, 2014 7:46 pm
    #

    Just cast perfect timing on hydras if you want ignore jink!

    • IndigoJack April 11, 2014 9:05 pm
      #

      perfect timing affects the psyker and his unit, so unfortunately that doesn’t work.

    • Red Corsair April 12, 2014 11:21 am
      #

      Just ally in stalkers… way better my friend.

      • Reecius
        Reecius April 13, 2014 5:35 pm
        #

        Or Sabres.

  5. bigpig April 11, 2014 7:49 pm
    #

    “As it appears you can do this to ANY unit the priest joins, this gets bananas, fast. Hammernators with rerolls on armor and invul saves? Or a Blob Squad with Azrael or Forewarning on it with rerolls? Holy crap”

    MORE reasons to do away with Battle Brothers granting special rules to units OUTSIDE of their own codex. Look, a 25pt models that DOUBLES the surviviability of your 400 point unit! That sounds balanced :). Granted, I haven’t read the book myself yet, but as presented this is another poorly thought out interaction that is unbalanced.

    • Red Corsair April 11, 2014 8:02 pm
      #

      Yea and you can put 3 priests in that unit so despite that ld7 one attempt should make it through.

      I mean, 50 conscripts and 3 priests is only 225. Add an inquisitor for magic nades and hammer hand and heck toss in Azreal and things just got silly. Or add any whitescar for that all important HnR. Heck toss in Yarrick and you can order them to all have precision shots too… The game is officially dead to me in a competitive sense.

      Not trying to sound cynical, i just think 40k is definitely beer and pretzels only now. Its like going to the horse tracks only to find camels dogs and elephants are competing too. Some with steroids, others being hauled in their trailers around the track. Its funny that people still think winning is about skill any more.

      Skill in list building maybe, not really on the table however. Its now just a recipe of operations depending on mission and order of turns. Its seriously that simple for some of these death stars.

      • Smurfalypse April 11, 2014 10:32 pm
        #

        The reroll is only in CC, not when being shot or any other saves that need to be taken.

        • bigpig April 11, 2014 11:46 pm
          #

          While less obnoxious, if that is the case (again, don’t have the book yet and just going off what is posted here), 25pts to be able to reroll your saves on your dedicated melee uber unit in CC? I can’t think of a situation where that is not ridiculously underpriced.

          I continue to hold that while they may balance interactions within a codex … maybe… they certainly don’t do it between mulitples. Battle brother interactions sharing USRs and special abilities out of codex are a big part of the reason we are where we are at now in the state of the game 🙁

          • Adam
            Adam April 12, 2014 7:51 am
            #

            Don’t forget that it only works a bit over half the time, and even with 2 there is a fair chance of failure. All this on a T3 W1 5+ model that’s just asking to be sniped.

          • Jason Brown April 14, 2014 10:42 am
            #

            With three dudes at LD7, expect to blow your own minds up with perils given the sheer number of checks you are going to take. I think it is balanced and is totally a well done Risk:reward.

      • Adam
        Adam April 11, 2014 10:32 pm
        #

        Idk, I just watched a double turbo laser warhound list go down hard to some ultramarines last night, generalship has something to do with it.

  6. Troopsmash April 11, 2014 7:57 pm
    #

    I love this book, a few sad moments Marbo I weep for you but hopefully he comes back in dataslate form since his model is still for sale last time I checked. With the changes in some of the things such as Russ’s good god it’s gonna get dirty fast, and for a lot cheaper. I was hoping for manticore squadrons but hey whoever gets everything they wish for anymore thanks a lot Santa Claus lol. I think that there will be some great combos exploited, prescience 50 man blob squad with precision shots possibly infiltrating cypher you dirty dirty man you lol If that actually gets used competitively and does well you heard it from me first, if it gets used and destroyed it was Frankie’s idea. But overall great great book, one thing I will say maybe less vendettas due to it’s capacity decrease? Or just use it to carry platoon command squads? I dunno but I’m pumped going to sell off necrons and orks to fund more imperi……Astra Militarium lol

    • Red Corsair April 11, 2014 8:04 pm
      #

      Yea because I want to pay 10-50 dollars for a character that used to be in my book and still HAS a model… Despite loving marbo I won’t pay for DLC that was taken from me on principle.

  7. Troopsmash April 11, 2014 8:07 pm
    #

    that’s why i love the interweb, you’ll reap the benefits off me who has no self control and will buy it and then post it up for all to see lol

  8. Chuck April 11, 2014 8:46 pm
    #

    A couple things I noticed:

    Vendetta getting nerfed to 6 man capacity is a subtle, but interesting nerf. It means the only troop squads you can put in them are PCS (or special weapon squads, but those are still bad).

    Also, I assume you guys won’t rule it this way, but by RAW, if you only take Commisar Yarrick as an HQ, then he can’t be your warlord. He has the Commisar rule that says he can only be your warlord if there are no models (note: it doesn’t say no “other” models) with the Senior Officer rule in your primary detachment. But he *has* the Senior Officer special rule, so he keeps himself from being the warlord.

    The Primaris Psyker I think could end up being really interesting for allying in Guard to shore up armies that could use divination (like SM), as you can still take 3 of them in an allied detachment.

    • Reecius
      Reecius April 12, 2014 10:22 am
      #

      People will still take Vendettas, it will just be slightly less common than previously. Like 1-1 in a list, not so often 3.

      Vultures, baby!

      • Red Corsair April 12, 2014 11:14 am
        #

        If only Pask were cleaver enough to pilot a Vulture. I’d jizzum where I stand.

        • Reecius
          Reecius April 12, 2014 11:26 am
          #

          Lol, that would be two of us!

    • Novastar April 12, 2014 11:23 am
      #

      Seeing as he has a warlord trait he can definitely be the warlord, even if their was a small typo would you really be that “guy” and quibble if someone wanted to take yarrick as the warlord. This a GW product ie typos and small word errors in abundance lol plus a small translation issue between British and American English

      • Chuck April 12, 2014 5:59 pm
        #

        Oh no, I don’t think anyone would actually try to argue that he can’t be a warlord even when he’s alone, I just thought it was funny how poorly GW does at quality checking / proof reading his entry.

  9. Tomguycot April 11, 2014 8:49 pm
    #

    Don’t think I can agree with the overall positive assessment. The book strikes me as boiling down to: things that were previously good are now bad, previously bad things are now good. And a bunch of stuff doesn’t even have rules now.

    PS please replace your Chimeras with Taurox.

    No thanks.

    • Reecius
      Reecius April 12, 2014 10:23 am
      #

      Chimeras were under-priced, honestly. They are a fair price now and you can still issue orders from inside them. I think Chimeras are not going anywhere.

      • Tomguycot April 12, 2014 12:35 pm
        #

        They still weren’t anything to write home about though even before this book came out. Sure, within the confines of 5th edition they were a bit too good but I always felt that in 6th edition they were about right. I used them typically to bunker my command units in 6th but they certainly weren’t good enough to take “just because”. And now they’re significantly worse both in terms of points and in terms of being a good bunker.

        • Reecius
          Reecius April 13, 2014 5:36 pm
          #

          You can still do that with them, honestly. I used them today and was happy with them.

  10. IndigoJack April 11, 2014 9:08 pm
    #

    Are there any units that can take valks as dedicated transports?

    • Reecius
      Reecius April 12, 2014 10:24 am
      #

      Nope.

  11. z3n1st April 11, 2014 9:26 pm
    #

    @Reecius Note the Tank Commander has the Character trait, wouldn’t that mean he can Look Out Sir? (of course LoS indicates wound, but then so does Invulnerable saves and people don’t have issue with taking those on tanks…)

    Just pointing out that the other tank(s) became ablative wounds for your Tank Commander

    • z3n1st April 11, 2014 9:27 pm
      #

      My Genestealer Cult became very happy

    • Reecius
      Reecius April 12, 2014 10:25 am
      #

      But also, one multi-shot attack can take them both out in a single volley. They’re mega expensive. I think they will be good on occasion, maybe as a unit of 2 Punishers or something, but in general are too expensive for what you get, IMO.

  12. Smurfalypse April 12, 2014 5:48 am
    #

    As a former Tanker in the Army I am finding it SUPER hard to not drop Daemons as the ally I use most and take a Tank Commander and a unit of Russ’. The idea of it is almost too much for me to handle lol

    • Reecius
      Reecius April 12, 2014 10:25 am
      #

      Leman Russes will be coming back in a big way!

  13. Lord Wellingstone April 12, 2014 6:00 am
    #

    I have a massive nerd boner for this codex. had 10k pts of painted IG just waiting till their book got decent. Holy crap am I glad I did not sell them.

    • Reecius
      Reecius April 12, 2014 10:25 am
      #

      IG are going to be all over the place.

  14. Leth April 12, 2014 7:12 am
    #

    Someone correct me if I am wrong but I believe that even if it is an individual model taking a test, you still use the highest leadership in the unit. Dont think it works for psychic powers but I thought it worked for everything else? Is it just morale tests?

    • jy2
      jy2 April 12, 2014 7:31 am
      #

      It depends. If it is the “unit” taking the LD test, then you use the highest. However, if it is the “model” taking the test (i.e. psychic powers, mindshackle scarabs, etc.), then it is just the model. Morale is almost always on the entire unit. Actually, most LD tests are unit-based rather than model-based.

    • Reecius
      Reecius April 12, 2014 10:26 am
      #

      Jy2 is right, it is the model taking the test, not the unit.

      • z3n1st April 12, 2014 11:48 am
        #

        That is actually not supported in rules as using the individual models LD to take the test. Models and units use the highest leadership of the unit, unless specifically indicated as being the models individual LD (such as Psyker powers), mindshackle scarabs indicate LD test, doesn’t say on models individual LD or any other restrictions (other than using 3d6).

        I am actually surprised that people would read that differently, even the FAQ for Necrons doesn’t call that out to be the specific models LD, just LD test.

        • seth April 13, 2014 3:47 pm
          #

          Agreed. Its a nerf to a solo priest trying to smash. If you have a higher ld model you get the higher leadership of the squad just like any other model taking a ld test in the squad.

          Also…rolling a seven or less is 58%

  15. jy2
    jy2 April 12, 2014 7:28 am
    #

    I might have to break out my guards again. I am a leman russ connoiseur also, don’t I don’t really run blob squads.

    • Reecius
      Reecius April 12, 2014 10:26 am
      #

      I know my lists will feature at least 1 Russ in every list. I will probably take 3!

  16. Slaede April 12, 2014 9:41 am
    #

    Is there a stipulation somewhere that says the Priest can’t use the highest LD in the unit for his check? Because the LD check section in the BRB says you always use the highest LD. I know psychic powers work differently, but Priests?

    • Reecius
      Reecius April 12, 2014 10:27 am
      #

      The rule states that the priest himself makes the check, not the unit.

      I am sure there will be debate on the issue, though.

      • z3n1st April 12, 2014 10:29 am
        #

        Have to disagree with you on that, the books says exactly the opposite, see below

  17. z3n1st April 12, 2014 10:28 am
    #

    Relevant sections:

    BRB: If a unit includes models with different Leadership values,
    always use the highest Leadership from among them.

    Astra Militarum: A Ministorum Priest can take a Leadership test at the beginning of each
    Fight sub-phase in which he is locked in combat

    so yeah by the way it is written , you would use the highest LD in the unit

    In regards to Psykers: A Psychic test is a Leadership test, however, where Leadership tests could be taken on the value of another model, a Psychic test is always taken on the Psyker’s own Leadership.

    • z3n1st April 12, 2014 10:32 am
      #

      the Psyker rules actually even re-affirm that you can use another models LD for making checks.

    • Reecius
      Reecius April 12, 2014 10:37 am
      #

      I see the argument, but, the text states that the Priest takes the test, not the unit. The unit is not taking a Ld test, the model specifically is. The BRB specifies between model and unit Ld tests. Now, granted, it is unclear on how to interpret that exactly due to that last line you pointed out, but I think that you use the highest characteristic when the unit is taking the test, but the individual model’s Ld when that model is taking the test.

      • z3n1st April 12, 2014 10:45 am
        #

        Not sure why you are seeing ambiguity when there is none, the LD rules state:

        At certain times, a model or unit might be called upon to take
        a Leadership test. This usually represents them drawing upon
        their courage to face disheartening circumstances.

        So the rules are the same, regardless if its a unit or a model taking that test, re-affirmed by the last statement noted above.

        Note: model OR unit, followed by the rule condition use the highest LD from among them.

        • Red Corsair April 12, 2014 11:19 am
          #

          Hold on I’ll look in the FAQ’s….oh yea *facepalm*

        • Reecius
          Reecius April 12, 2014 11:29 am
          #

          Again, I see the argument, but I think the language is unclear. The Priest is using his own ability with his stats.

          I could be wrong of course, but that is how I read it.

          • z3n1st April 12, 2014 11:38 am
            #

            I think you are reading it as a characteristic test, which would normally agree with you, except under characteristic tests it clarifies that Armor and LD tests are handled differently, as they have their own relevant sections.

            Same page as LD tests, two paras up

          • Reecius
            Reecius April 12, 2014 12:07 pm
            #

            Yeah, I am familiar, but the rule I keep reading is the Priest specific rule that reads: “A Ministorum Priest can take a leadership test…”

            That to me indicates it is him using his ability, not his unit.

          • DCannon4Life April 12, 2014 2:56 pm
            #

            So…Seer Councils just bounced up to LD 10 for ALL their psychic checks?

          • z3n1st April 12, 2014 3:44 pm
            #

            Psykers always test on their own LD for Psychic tests as detailed in the BRB:

            A Psychic test is a Leadership test, however, where Leadership tests could be taken on the value of another model, a Psychic test is always taken on the Psyker’s own Leadership.

  18. z3n1st April 12, 2014 12:29 pm
    #

    Even if he is taking the LD test (which makes sense to use the singular form of model in the text, since he is an IC), once he is in a unit the rules state he uses the highest LD in the unit when there is more than one value. It doesn’t matter if its a model or a unit testing. The only time the Codex would trump the BRB, is if there is conflict, of which there is none, as the rule for model or unit is the same (uses the highest).

    For it to work how you are interpreting it, it would have to say use the models ‘individual leadership’, or ‘test using the models LD’. It doesn’t, it says the ‘model makes an LD test’, if we reference how a model or unit takes a test we get a very straightforward answer: “If a unit includes models with different Leadership values, always use the highest Leadership from among them.”

    This would apply to how Mindshackle Scarabs are treated as well, which blows me away that jy2, who along with the rest of FLG crew, tend to be OMG spot on when referencing rules. This ‘interpretation’ is simply wrong. The word ‘or’ is a conjunction but also an inclusive combination of alternatives of the first sentence for leadership tests (which is then followed by instructions on how those tests are taken).

    At certain times, a model (or unit: omitted) might be called upon to take a Leadership test. This usually represents them drawing upon their courage to face disheartening circumstances.

    At certain times, a (model or: omitted) unit might be called upon to take a Leadership test. This usually represents them drawing upon their courage to face disheartening circumstances.

    How is it possible to NOT read it that you take it on the highest? I is confused!

    • Syeti April 12, 2014 1:26 pm
      #

      z3n1st is correct. The Priest is taking the Ld test but Ld test rules explicitly allow you to use the highest available leadership.

    • Reecius
      Reecius April 13, 2014 5:43 pm
      #

      You make a very good argument, and I totally see it. I really feel that that wasn’t intent due to wording, but we’ll see. If true, holy shit man, Priests are flippin crazy good.

      • z3n1st April 14, 2014 12:18 pm
        #

        GW’s ‘intent’ could be to cover kittens with BBQ and feed them to crocodiles for all we know

        • Reecius
          Reecius April 14, 2014 12:40 pm
          #

          I am very familiar with the arguments against trying to divine intent, but don’t forget, this isn’t law or business, it’s diversion. We don’t have to blindly follow RAW all the time. Hell, if we did, we wouldn’t even be able to play this game, lol!

  19. Syeti April 12, 2014 1:24 pm
    #

    Ogryns getting HoW isn’t a nerf. S5 autohits at I10 is really good. Brotherhood of Psykers don’t get a power each, they all count as one level one psyker, together. So it’s only one divination power per unit, per round. They are better off with other powers.

    • Reecius
      Reecius April 13, 2014 5:37 pm
      #

      They lost Furious Assault, which is statistically better than HoW.

      And yes, Wyrdvane Psykers only get a single power. I was saying you can get 6 psykers in a list now (3 HQ, 3 Elites).

      • De Profundis April 13, 2014 6:32 pm
        #

        And don’t forget astropaths if one is so inclined (maybe not the best value for their cost, but they are an option), eight psychers is the list of the future!

        • Reecius
          Reecius April 13, 2014 6:36 pm
          #

          Good point! And yeah, Ld7 is nothing exciting, but, he’s dirt cheap and can get a good power plus if you play Daemons a lot, he’s one more psyker to diffuse the stupid, stupid, stupid 11 on that warpstorm table.

  20. TinBane April 12, 2014 8:54 pm
    #

    I’m so excited.
    While I miss out on a lot of the benefit, seeing as chaos aren’t battle brothers with fallen guard, points drops on leman russ tanks will see them on the field more (I love punishers). Hellhound points drop is welcome, and the move to 6th means they are going to be more viable. More orders, more zealot, divination, and flood of cheap troops (which are braver than my chaos marines, with zealot) means more tough decisions for my opponent.

    While deathstars might carve bloody swathes through blobs of guardsmen, I imagine a huge unit that is fearless and tough, might even get a lucky kill or two, not to mention holding it up.

    • z3n1st April 12, 2014 10:02 pm
      #

      I think precision shots from blobs of Guard are going to make deathstars cry

      • Reecius
        Reecius April 13, 2014 5:38 pm
        #

        Yeah, the Orders are nuts! Just tried them, like, better psychic powers.

  21. Madcore April 13, 2014 8:11 am
    #

    How about Ogryns and Nork…any good combinations that can make them effective? I like the concept of Ogryns so much, I want to make them work…Any Ideas?

    • TinBane April 13, 2014 9:09 am
      #

      Well, maybe the bullgryns. But Ogryns themselves have never been that good.

      Ogryns might be more useful if 7th improves the standing for assault units.

    • Reecius
      Reecius April 13, 2014 5:38 pm
      #

      Ogryns got nerfed a bit, but are about the same. They can be quite good with support characters.

    • Chuck April 13, 2014 6:14 pm
      #

      You can’t add Nork to Ogryns, he isn’t an IC. The only way to take him is to add him to a CCS and then he’s stuck with them.

      It’s the same with Straken, which is kinda lame.

      • Reecius
        Reecius April 13, 2014 6:34 pm
        #

        Yeah, and Strakken got the Choas treatment: always issues and accepts challenges. Lame.

        • z3n1st April 14, 2014 12:20 pm
          #

          If more characters/codexes had the restriction then it would become less of an issue I think

  22. ligolski April 13, 2014 8:52 am
    #

    well since pask and his tank are a character, he can precision shot with say a punisher cannon with rending…im going to make this happen for my planned admech themed army

    • Reecius
      Reecius April 13, 2014 5:39 pm
      #

      Yeah, that is nasty.

  23. De Profundis April 13, 2014 12:01 pm
    #

    I’m curious as to what everyone thinks of servitor plasma cannons, they look pretty damn cheap (25 each) and pack quite a wollop, mayhap a viable option?

    • Reecius
      Reecius April 13, 2014 5:39 pm
      #

      Very solid! And cool looking.

  24. Ulrik April 13, 2014 1:45 pm
    #

    Good review! I just cant agree about commisars (ane being their fanboy has nothing to do with it, really!! ;))

    I dont think they are expensive, 25 isnt so much for their output. For me, its question what the unit should do. Priest is definetly good, but his Ld 7 doesnt trigger hymns every time and, especially, with fearless the unit cant Get to the Ground…which is something I use more, than expected…:) Also, commisar is BS4! 😉
    And for the summary execution – you dont have to trigger it. And, if you trigger it, its autopass, not reroll as it was. IMO its not useless, but yeah, for some units its Priest definetly better choice.

    But, imagine the cinematic power of botched summary execution “I see, lord Creed, you cant command your own bowels *BLAM*…or, to better effect with allied forces and lord commisar “Stories about your courage were exaggerated, master Coteaz *BLAM*…just sayin…a lot of fun with commisars 😉

    • TinBane April 13, 2014 3:32 pm
      #

      I think Reece’s aim is to examine it with the competitive setting in mind.

      The priest gives zealot, which is hatred + fearless to the unit he joins, for 25 pts. The commissar allows you to negate a failed check, at the cost of a model. With 1/3 chance that your opponent can kill the model, that is the MOST effective way for your opponent to kill your commanders, your special weapons, your sergeants, etc.

      I like commissars too, but I’ll only be using them in friendly matches. Priests + psykers FTW.

      • Reecius
        Reecius April 13, 2014 5:39 pm
        #

        Yeah, exactly. Priests are just better in every way.

  25. seth April 13, 2014 4:12 pm
    #

    Reasons to take commisars.
    1. Better stats
    2. Can go to ground
    3. Better gear.

    Lol for the first tike I can state that something sisters is better than ig. (Priests can take power weapons in sisters book.)

    • Reecius
      Reecius April 13, 2014 5:42 pm
      #

      lol, yeah, Sisters priests come armed for battle!

      But don’t forget, Commissars are only Characters, not ICs, so LoS! on only a 4+, too.

      They are only single wound models too, so giving them gear is often points wasted. For fluff, sure, rock it, they are fun. But competitively, I am going all Priests, all day.

      Being able to go to ground is cool though, particularly behind an aegis.

      • De Profundis April 13, 2014 6:09 pm
        #

        I do think it’s worth noting that if the priest can use the highest leadership in the squad for his War Hymns, then commissar+priest might be worth while, buffing up the priests effectiveness, packing in another WS 4 power weapon/fist to a blob and the ability to resort to good, old fashion *blam* if your priest ends up meeting the emperor early.

      • RoockieBoy April 14, 2014 9:40 am
        #

        Why would I want to equip the priest with a power weapon when he has SMASH? You´re saving the half-an-old-CCS-points in the eviscerator for free! Or am I just reading it wrong?

        P.S. If you have 3 attacks and use smash, do you attack with 2?

        • De Profundis April 14, 2014 9:51 am
          #

          Well he only has smash for one turn on average without the commissar bonus (for the sake of argument say 6 turns, pass 1/2 LD tests = 3 activations of war hymns, assuming equal distribution of results that’s each one activating once) and chances are not so good that that one turn will be the one he needs it for (even with commissar you’re only going to see 5 successes, 1 2/3 of each result, and honestly smash is not the result you’re looking for).

          • RoockieBoy April 15, 2014 10:52 am
            #

            Maths don´t lie! Thanx for clarifying!

  26. YoungGun April 13, 2014 6:04 pm
    #

    Having play tested the orders now I have come upon a question. If i use an order on a squad with a primaris psyker in it, can I use the primaris psyker’s leadership for the order?

    • Chuck April 13, 2014 6:11 pm
      #

      Definitely. The rules for orders just say the unit takes a leadership test, and the BRB rules explicitly say that a unit takes a test on the highest leadership within the unit.

  27. TinBane April 13, 2014 8:33 pm
    #

    Sooo, is there anything that explicitly states who AM can ally with?

    • z3n1st April 14, 2014 12:29 pm
      #

      I just looked in the codex and I don’t see any Allies options (of course I am skimming so its possible its in there but I don’t see it)

    • z3n1st April 14, 2014 12:30 pm
      #

      probably safe to say its the same as the IG though, as it is obviously the same army