Warhammer 40K Video Bat Rep Tyranids vs Eldar

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BigPig comes up to take the Tyranid Challenge against Reecius’ Mighty, Mighty Footdar! This is a rematch of a game we played when Eldar came out in 6th against 5th ed Nids. That game was a barn burner and resulted in a narrow victory for the Footdar. Will this game be different? As always, check out the Tactics Corner for more bat reps and tactics!

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About Reecius

The fearless leader of the intrepid group of gamers gone retailers at Frontline Gaming!

60 Responses to “Warhammer 40K Video Bat Rep Tyranids vs Eldar”

  1. DCannon4Life January 22, 2014 11:22 pm
    #

    Given the tactical lapses on both sides, the ‘quick’ start by the Tyranid and their eventual collapse, I think this battle report is the best so far at exemplifying the problem(s) of the Tyranid codex. Terrain cannot be blamed, poor strategy or limited understanding cannot be blamed. The rapid (exponential?) attenuation of the Tyranid army’s power when compared to the more linear decline of the Eldar, coupled with the self-limiting factor (Synapse) built into the Tyranid army are the two foundational flaws that will keep this codex on middle-tables unless or until a Dataslate solves all the Tyranids’ problems.

    • bigpig January 23, 2014 1:27 am
      #

      Well Said

      • fleetofclaw January 23, 2014 9:03 am
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        I completely agree, you’re stuck in these obnoxious bubbles, you start strong but can’t finish. I think you’re right Vince, you just hope for those Tourney games to end on turn 5 due to lack of time! 😛

    • Reecius
      Reecius January 23, 2014 10:07 am
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      You said it.

  2. Jason Brown January 23, 2014 12:20 am
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    My only comment, I might have assaulted with the venomthropes in hopes of dumping the knight. Hindsight is 20/20 though, well played.

    • bigpig January 23, 2014 1:13 am
      #

      Even though they were the only backfield unit that could actually wound the wraithknight I considered charging the venoms, but promptly decided not to. Basically, if I could have gotten them out of terrain to assault and hit at initiative (+3 with the whips) then I would have gotten 3 hits (6 total attacks on charge), probably 3 wounds, of which he would have only failed armor save and taken a wound. In return he would have put that big strength 10 Wraithknight pimp fist straight through the venomthropes and instagibbed em both. If I couldn’t get out of the terrain then he would have attacked first and I wouldn’t have even done the one wound. Better just to tie him up and threaten the objective.

      In retrospect the only thing I would have done differently is to fly that second hive tyrant off the board rather than go after this avengers. I should have killed twice as many as I did, but even then he would have been left with enough to still take an objective. I really wanted to take them out as it would have left him with only two troops (a 5 man scout squad and a 3 man bike squad, both wimpy). It was a calculated move that just didn’t pay off for me.

      I do think that putting the crone down was a good call and would do it again. I would just kill fewer dires. I positioned the drool template to miss several of the dires so I could stay stuck in combat. Unfortunately, I managed to hit and wound with all my attacks and wipe the unit. Since when is doing that a problem :). This time it was as I got shot on his turn instead of finishing off the combat on his turn. The Crone and Harpy are actually surprisingly good in combat vs rank and file troops since they are AP2. Just watch out for grenades.

      Another great game with Reece. Always a pleasure to play against a talented opponent and the games are fun and friendly (even if his loaded dice always roll up hammer and anvil).

      • Jason Brown January 23, 2014 7:58 am
        #

        Ha, right. I have tried to get stuck in combat and thats when I roll them sixes like a boss. And ya, it was a great game…if we could just get hooks on venoms….

      • kalhoun January 23, 2014 8:42 am
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        If the WK was already engaged, terrain and grenades don’t matter for Initiative. That was the only thing I saw worth mentioning, was that the vthropes weren’t providing much at the end in area terrain and aren’t heavy, so it’s worth the gamble, I think.

        Enjoyable, it was a good game.
        Landin the crone wasn’t ba dat all. Trusting in flight is just another potential risk anyway. Could you have moved difficult terrain through the wall to get flamer LOS and keep the 4+ cover off the ruin?
        On the turn you flamed the Baron unit, was it a lower floor? Without Torrent, it’s hard to get much love from a base-fire template.

        • Reecius
          Reecius January 23, 2014 10:08 am
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          True, but the WK still would have swung first and I would have killed the Venomes first.

          • kalhoun January 23, 2014 12:47 pm
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            Venomthropes are I6 with lash whips.

          • Reecius
            Reecius January 23, 2014 1:13 pm
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            Indeed they are, forgot about that, thanks.

          • Bigpig January 23, 2014 12:51 pm
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            even if they went first only one wound would get through the armour before they died

          • kalhoun January 23, 2014 9:45 pm
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            Trust me, I’m well acquainted with Instant Death.
            It’s still totally possible for him to whiff 🙂
            Stranger things have happened.

  3. Rob January 23, 2014 1:06 am
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    What is wrong with infiltrating Gene steelers with a broodlord ? It seems it would solve the mobility issues by creating a distraction scoring unit that doesn’t need a baby sitter. Also why warriors and no Tervigon ?

    • bigpig January 23, 2014 1:26 am
      #

      I’ve tried genestealers but they always just get wiped out. They were weak last edition and nothing improved them with this codex. Its too bad because I LOVED them in the 4th edition codex and in the 5th edition playing under 5th edition rules. No grenades, 5+ armor, no assault out of outflank. Eldar would just blow up small objective holding units. And if you try a big unit, then the points come from somewhere, and they still get blown up.

      I’ve done one game with the Tervigon since the nerf and am not a fan now, which is too bad. Only one psychic power (probably goes to dominion unless you get catalyst), big points, and the loss of synergy was brutal. Now, not only do you lose poison to baby gaunts (which was the big reason to take him) but now he explodes in a 12″ radius. Brutal. Outflanking he is ok and that may be the best use for him. But to do that I need to get the points someplace. Losing the Warriors, I still need 100pts and I just can’t find it in the list. It would all come from offensive punch. Plus, my opinion is that in a multround tournament 1 overpriced Tervigon is a liability. You have about a 50% chance to go into menopause on each spawning. That means on half the games you spawn 8-10 gaunts (or maybe 3) and go dry. Sure, in some games you get 5 spawns out of him and put 60 Gaunts on the board, but in others he’s a liability. Since I’m trying to work a TAC tourney list with this, I just have to exclude him. Warriors did nothing in this game, but in all the others I’ve played they’ve actually been useful. They expand the backfield synapse bubble and hold an objective. They got underutilized in this game because Reece got lucky and killed 4 gargoyles with 4 attacks (should have been 2 or 3) and got in position with his Wraithknight to charge them.

      • Jason Brown January 23, 2014 8:02 am
        #

        Here is where I think genestealers have a place, back field objectives. They are leadership 10 and can operate pretty good outside synapse. Plus they can bust the chops off most vanguard cheese units.

        • kalhoun January 23, 2014 8:46 am
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          My genestealers chewed through two White Scar bike squads on Monday. Broodlord in that game was a waste of points, only because everything was immune to pinning.

          • Jason Brown January 23, 2014 9:04 am
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            Ya, I dont think stealers are down for the count. REALLY crossing my fingers for some love in the Dataslate on sat.

      • Reecius
        Reecius January 23, 2014 10:08 am
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        I agree with your analysis. I have 50 of the little guys and they just stink. If they were 11pts per model, I would use them. At 14? 17 with poison? No thanks.

      • winterman January 23, 2014 12:41 pm
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        You know when I was watching the game I forgot that the tervigon was subbed in as a t-fex — kept waiting for him to spawn onto Reeces objective or grab the relic or somesuch. I think had he been a tervigon you would have forced some moves and been a bit more free to move and shift and could have put more pressure, grabbed the relic, etc etc.

        In otherwords there’s still a place for tervigons in an army despite the nerfing they got.

        How you fit him into the list? I dunno without really dismantling the list. But it may be worth it.

  4. Pete January 23, 2014 2:03 am
    #

    Seems to me that although a ‘flyrant’ is a powerful unit for its points cost, having a synapse unit that flys away from the rest of the army and can easily be picked out and targeted is a pretty bad idea.

    I’m really enjoying the nid challenge reports; maybe next time lets do something different, ditch the wings and use tyrant guard. Also; there’s a lot of hate for warriors, but has anyone actually tried a warrior heavy list? Behind gaunts with a venomthrope maybe?

    • Reecius
      Reecius January 23, 2014 10:10 am
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      Warriors are beyond awful, honestly. They just suck. I want to be wrong but I don’t think I am.

      Walking Tyrants die so easily and will be a top target priority. You may as well give them wings and then walk them if you want to, have the wings for the versatility.

      • Cameron January 25, 2014 7:44 pm
        #

        I dunno… a walking dakka tyrant is only 45 points more than a dakkafex now, and for your points you get BS4, synapse, and 2 psychic powers. It’s fragile yes, but not horrible.

        • Reecius
          Reecius January 26, 2014 5:51 pm
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          Giant, huge target on it. Easy to kill as a Cranifex, but much more valuable of a target and he’s slow. =( He needs a 2+ at the very least.

  5. Crispy January 23, 2014 2:43 am
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    Great battle report guys. The nids looked awesome and it was good to see the footdar again.

    The zoanthrope seemed pretty good as a backfield minder, not sure but maybe another one of those could help with more Synapse? Not sure where you’d find the pts or if it would be a good choice…

    • Reecius
      Reecius January 23, 2014 10:10 am
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      Yeah, I take 2 for the reasons you listed.

  6. DexKivuli January 23, 2014 2:48 am
    #

    You know why you’ve nearly lost on turn 5? You’re becoming complacent due to your ‘nid contempt! Like a pro-basketballer playing against a toddler.

    All jokes aside, I think it changes the way you play. Subconsciously, you’re less ‘scared’ in turns 1-4. Whereas if you were staring down triptide, you’d be really thinking through every move you make in the early game.

    • Reecius
      Reecius January 23, 2014 10:11 am
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      Yeah, I am rusty! Haha, I almost gave away the game twice and won only due to luck.

  7. iNcontroL January 23, 2014 3:14 am
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    Well played bigpig.. almost had em 🙂

    • Reecius
      Reecius January 23, 2014 10:11 am
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      We’re getting closer with Nids!

  8. bridges60 January 23, 2014 7:15 am
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    Man tough fight, Reece’s footdar are one of my favorite armies to watch and your tyranids held up well. The synapse limitation has hurt a lot, as many builds have to be deployed/moved in a similar clumped up way which is either easy to pie plate or easy to move away from .so far my favorite units have been hormagaunts, for their bounding leap and deadly cc power but loosing synapse with them hurts sooooooo bad.

    • Reecius
      Reecius January 23, 2014 10:11 am
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      Thanks! Yeah, I forgot how fun the Footdar are to play! SO much synergy and fun stuff going on, I will have to bust them out more frequently.

  9. jy2
    jy2 January 23, 2014 7:50 am
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    Great game, bigpig. This game was a big contrast to mine and you played much more aggressively. Moreover, you were playing the role of the Attacker whereas I was playing more the role of a Survivor in my game.

    It may not be really fluffy, but since I’ve used the bastion in my bug army, I haven’t really had a game where synapse was an issue. Highly recommended that you give it a try as a fortification. It also gives you another LOS-blocker as well. And if you want some fluff justification, you could say that the Tyranids over-ran the bastion and is now using it for some alien purpose – maybe as a spawning point for certain bugs, a point of contact to the Hive Mind, an experimental facility or just a storehouse for genetic material to be consumed later by a particular bug.

    • nkump January 23, 2014 8:42 am
      #

      I had to signup just to tell jy2 that his comment was epic! Love the fluff bit! Oh yeah, plus that was a super enjoyable match to watch. Thanks guys! I’m sure its rough finding time to batrep while preparing for the LVO so its much appreciated.

      • jy2
        jy2 January 23, 2014 11:12 am
        #

        Thanks! 😉

    • fleetofclaw January 23, 2014 9:10 am
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      I’m very much contemplating a bastion for my bugs, hid a Zthrope in there and just dominion his brains out. Just have to find the points without feeling like I’ve shortchanged myself somewhere else.

      • jy2
        jy2 January 23, 2014 9:27 am
        #

        You’ll see how great the bastion is after you try it out. That is because the bastion acts as a force multiplier that makes the entire army better. It’s much more than just hide a zoanthrope or venomthrope in there. Some of its applications:

        – Venomthrope inside for a larger Shroud bubble.

        – Zoanthrope inside for a larger Synapse bubble, especially with Dominion.

        – Zoanthrope can also hide behind the bastion while the venom occupies it.

        – LOS-blocker.

        – Put biovores on top with venom inside. Now you have LOS to most of the board and 2+ cover as well!

        – Put a Comms Relay on it to help with a reserves-heavy army.

        – Here’s a neat trick for the Relic. Place the bastion in a forwards position to cover the Relic. Then infiltrate a unit of genestealers onto the Relic and out of LOS from the opponent. Then on T2, move the genestealers with the Relic into the bastion.

        – In games of Escalation and Stronghold, you can actually assault when you come out of a fortification. Thus, place the bastion forwards and infiltrate a unit of genestealers inside….

    • bigpig January 23, 2014 10:08 am
      #

      Mike, I have to agree with you on the bastion. I actually brought two lists with me and decided to use the more aggressive one since it is more in line with what I brought to our last game against his footdar. For the other list I swap out a flyrant and the warriors for a BUNKER and a Prime with Norn Crown and Miasma Cannon. I actually like the bunker over the bastion for a couple of reasons. First it is cheaper (only 20 pts, but every point counts ), but more importantly it can actually claim a cover save itself by spending 10pts to buy a section of barricade. Join the prime to the venomthropes and stick them in the bunker. The bunker gets a 4+ cover save from the barricade section, dropped to 2+ from the Venom cloud. My concern with a bastion is just getting it blown up by long range fire. The guys inside don’t last long once they start taking penetrating or glancing hits and Eldar have the things to take it out with the Wraithknight.

      So now you have a solid firebase. A quad gun on top covers the loss of ackack. Since it counds as a weapon emplacement thanks the Stronghold clarifications, it can be fired by the venomthropes inside. The Prime shoots his miasma cannon from inside and can actually be pretty scary to anything that comes in the backfield. A prime with paired boneswords probably would have killed that wraithknight. With the crown he gives a larger backfield synapse and he can be the general so you don’t risk giving up warlord by the rampaging tyrant.

      • jy2
        jy2 January 23, 2014 11:10 am
        #

        Just something to note, but in the BAO FAQ’s, fortifications cannot benefit from certain special rules that affect friendly units. Thus, no KFF cover saves from a Big Mek, no casting psychic powers on a fortification and no Shrouded bonus from the Venomthrope.

        However, the units behind the barricade can benefit from the Shroud, just not the bunker itself.

        • bigpig January 23, 2014 11:29 am
          #

          Boooo! I can’t take bunker anyways to LVO 🙂

          So noted. Here’s to hoping people don’t plan for AV14 🙂

        • kalhoun January 23, 2014 12:55 pm
          #

          Don’t forget adding ammo dumps and the like. That can help a lot as well.
          I have a lot of forts to play with (like putting 30 gaunts in the vortex missile superfort heh), but am playing, especially for challenge, with just the core book, stripped down right now.

          We played at the house, and got some torrent off with the pyrovores, since they’re still a “flamer” weapon (not all template weapons are, and as such, can’t benefit from the promethium).

    • Reecius
      Reecius January 23, 2014 10:13 am
      #

      Yeah, and you can model up a sweet looking alien bastion, too! I agree that it is a good choice, and it gives you a way to hide your Flyrant first turn, and a Comms Relay or Quad Gun if you need it.

      • Jason Brown January 23, 2014 10:41 am
        #

        I like that idea, modle it like a capilary tower or whatever they are called.

        • Reecius
          Reecius January 23, 2014 10:55 am
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          Yeah, for sure! We have some in the shop! Oh snap, that just gave me an idea!

          • Jason Brown January 24, 2014 1:30 pm
            #

            Damn, I am good!

  10. Siphen January 23, 2014 11:24 am
    #

    I know Reecius will hate me for mentioning his name but….what are people thinking about the Swarmlord now?
    18″ Synapse is obviously good. 3 psychic powers (not as good as it used to be, but still a good chance to get Catalyst). The extra wound makes him slightly more survivable. +1 to reserve rolls is great for all the Mawlocs and outflanking units.
    The big one is that we’ve lost all of our “dangerous” tarpits. Our only hope for dealing with a Wraithknight is to throw gants/gargs at it all game and never hurt it. The Swarmlord can still wreck a Wraithknight or a non-iron arm MC that gets too close.

    Obviously, giving up a Flyrant is the tough part. But I honestly don’t know how impressed I’ve been. I haven’t played with 2 yet, but one or both always seem to die a little early. Might be worth testing out for a game…

  11. michael January 23, 2014 11:28 am
    #

    I think players need to stop using flyrants. They are a lackluster unit and with out the doom as a crutch, its painfully obvious flyrants were never that great.
    I think the living fortress combo has more potential, plus it just looks cooler to have tyrant walking up the board with his bodyguard.
    I wanna give this $100 challenge thing a go…I gots some ideas

    • bigpig January 23, 2014 11:36 am
      #

      Flyrants always get their points back for me and do work. A single flyrant is weak, but two with the addition of a crone or other downfield pressure really puts your opponent on the defensive early on. Reece just had the ability to recover from it in this game. I guess its like the Tervigon, sometimes you poop out on first spawning. With the flyrant sometimes you go all Lawn Dart on the first little shot that hits you. The first one to die, I had bad luck and would have still been alive had I not taken the perils or if I had made a single FNP roll. The second one I did overcommit and should have flown it off the board.

      • Reecius
        Reecius January 23, 2014 12:05 pm
        #

        I agree. You need at least 2 threats going up-field to survive, 3 or more is better.

        And I got straight lucky. I killed both on the turn I needed them dead. Had I failed in that, it would have been very, very bad for me.

        • winterman January 23, 2014 12:32 pm
          #

          Your opponent had 4 and I don’t think even that was enough personally. If you aren’t going to play cadgey like jy2 did in the previous batrep then I think you have to really commit to the aggressive play.

      • michael January 23, 2014 12:43 pm
        #

        It seems, to me that is, they consistently get swatted from the skies. That didn’t happen this game, but Reece was also pretty light on AA. But yeah, they are nifty tool. I just think the flyrant is over rated.
        I think their is some merit to spamming harpies and crones instead of taking dual flyrants. Either way you get flying creatures that can pressure various parts of the board… but cheaper. But maybe not as effectively?

        From what I’ve seen in bat reps, it seems tyranid players either need to play super aggressively and keep the pressure constant with flyrants, crones and mawlocks OR play the late game and lurk around the board waiting to strike.
        In any case Tyranid players need to play smarter than everyone else.

  12. winterman January 23, 2014 12:30 pm
    #

    Throughly enjoyed this batrep.

    Curious why the biovores tried to scatter off the wraithknight when they could have at least glanced the warwalkers (range?). However I thought of something even more clever after watching this.

    There is nothing keeping you from targeting a unit that is under the levels of a building with a barrage weapon. They just happen to hit the upper levels rather then the unit. Which is fine and dandy with spores. So in this case you have a guaranteed spore mine placement, and maybe even with luck an assault on them.

    • Bigpig January 23, 2014 12:55 pm
      #

      Range and night fight. Interesting thought on shooting anyway at the upper level. Can I get a ruling judge?

      • kalhoun January 23, 2014 12:57 pm
        #

        Interesting. Yeah… I think they’re still targetable, but just get intercepted by the floor. I’d also like to hear a ruling on this, as it would definitely be a discussion when it happened mid-game.

    • Reecius
      Reecius January 23, 2014 1:19 pm
      #

      Good point on the Spores, we didn’t think about that.

      And the War Walkers were out of range, yes.

  13. bigpig January 23, 2014 2:13 pm
    #

    Just a point; I had a comment or two from some local folks about the Crone flaming the guys on the second level. While I’d make an argument that the Crone is a Jump MC, the simple answer is that you can flame the level you are on or one up/down. With them on the middle level, it should be fine.

    • Reecius
      Reecius January 23, 2014 2:38 pm
      #

      Yeah, he can only flame one level up. He’s an FMC though, which is different than a Jump MC.

    • bigpig January 23, 2014 3:41 pm
      #

      Agreed, but for sake of argument, the rules for FMC say that they move, run, assault like jump infantry. I know it doesn’t say “shoot” but how is it intuitive that a swooping MC could hit the bottom of a ruin but not the top. Just more of that tight GW rule set in action 🙂

      It would make more sense to say his level is the level of the model, not the base. He’s quite obviously at the top. That would mean he could flame the top and middle, but not the bottom. Arguably worse. Just making hay…

  14. Cycluv January 30, 2014 12:45 pm
    #

    Don’t internet-rage on me, but I played a friendly 2000 pt Tyrannic Veteran data-slate game last night. My opponent agreed and wanted to see what the data-slate could do. I took 3 Talons and five 4-man Tyrannic Veteran Squads, and filled out the rest of my army with Tacs in Rhinos and 2 squadrons of Land Speeders. My opponent had 3 flyers, 2 squads Venothropes, Tervigons, genestealers and a ton of guants. Nids had first turn. They came in strong with the flyers, but by the third round all synapse was gone and the Nids crumbled. For an opposing player, taking out the synapse was not that difficult; especially with Iron Arm gone.

    • Reecius
      Reecius January 30, 2014 1:31 pm
      #

      I believe it.