Warp Talons, Possessed, Mutilators, Defilers….Broken?

Have we found a way to make these stinkers cheesy?!

Hey everyone, happy to see Faeit 212 back up and kicking! Reecius here from Frontline Gaming to talk about some of the most maligned units in 6th ed 40K and how they can not only be good, but cheese whiz good!? I add the question mark because I almost don’t believe it myself!

So, let me set the stage. I was chatting with a customer of ours whom we just completed a beautiful commissioned Fallen Dark Angels army for, pictures of which you can see here, here and here.

In said commission, is a unit of 8 Warp Talons, pictured below.

Handsome devils, aren’t they?

Yes, but typically considered to be sub par performers where it matters. And for this type of performance anxiety they unfortunately have not yet developed a little blue pill.

Warp Talons hi hard but their crippling lack of grenades combined with the need to swing first, high point cost, relative squishiness (a bolter kills them as easily as any marine) and competition with the all mighty Hell Turkey means they rarely see table time.

Our client brought up an interesting point that I had not yet considered and that led to a domino effect of horror in my puny little brain.

Use the Grimoire (which states can be used on any Friendly unit with at least one model with the Daemon rule) on them with either the MoT or MoN and all of a sudden they become REALLY resilient. Combo this with Fateweaver as the Daemon HQ (who IMO  is one of the best HQs in that book anyway) and they have a very high probability of it going off. That means either a T5 3++ unit or a T4 2++ (MoT allows a maximum 3++, sorry for the confusion -ed) (Double Rainbow!! Er, I mean double edit! Someone pointed out to me that the MoT only buffs you to a 3++ but then AFTER that, the Grimoire buffs you to a 2++, what say you all?) unit….all with Jump Packs and Lightening Claws….yikes. Who needs Grenades with those kinds of stats?

But then I started thinking, what else has the Daemon rule in the CSM dex? Possessed, Mutilators, Oblits, Maulerfiends, Forgefiends, the Defiler, obviously the Daemon Prince and….by all that is holy….that mother #&%*ing Hell Turkey!!!!! Gah!

Nooooooooooooo!!!

I already hate that model more than Osama Bin Laden, why in the name of the Emperor can it possibly get a 3++ on top of all the other inane rules it has?!

I mean, 2++ Mutilators, Possessed, and Warp Talons or 3++ Forgefiends, Maulerfiends, Defilers and Daemon Princes I can live with as I would like to see more of them on the table. But that rat bastard Hell Turkey doesn’t need any more favors!!

The only consolation I had in all of this existential anguish was the fact that there are half a dozen units in the Daemon book that are actually a lot scarier with the Grimroire but hey, we’ve all got our crosses to bear and mine comes with a giant space turkey on it!

So what do you all think about this nonsense? Cool to buff otherwise under-powered units to the point where we will actually see them on the table or just one more way to leverage already powerful units?

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About Reecius

The fearless leader of the intrepid group of gamers gone retailers at Frontline Gaming!

27 Responses to “Warp Talons, Possessed, Mutilators, Defilers….Broken?”

  1. D-ManA June 13, 2013 10:41 am
    #

    Been wanting to use warp talons for a while now and have been thinking of it since the Daemon codex dropped because of grimoire. Just haven’t put them together to test it out.

  2. DoctorHam June 13, 2013 11:44 am
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    Skull Cannon. Behold, your warp talons have assault grenades now.

    • Reecius
      Reecius June 13, 2013 1:22 pm
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      Genius!

    • steven morrow June 13, 2013 4:16 pm
      #

      dont forget precision deepstrikes from icons, and acquiescence power from slaaneesh discipline.

  3. David Key June 13, 2013 11:44 am
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    I like anything that opens the game up with more options. The fluff for WT is too cool (especially with the NightLords novels). More power to the combo if it makes them viable.

    • Reecius
      Reecius June 13, 2013 1:22 pm
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      That’s what I was thinking, too!

  4. Adam
    Adam June 13, 2013 12:51 pm
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    Don’t forget you could also combine it with a Skyshield platform for a whopping 2++ on a daemon unit hiding up there!

    MoT units up there will already get a 3++, then you could use the grimoire on things outside of the platform to also get them up to a 3++… I feel something brewing in my loins.

  5. MrPhoenyxx June 13, 2013 1:59 pm
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    They would still just die to bolters like any other marine, except now you’ve spent the points on Warp Talons, Fateweaver, and something to carry the grimoire, just to try to make WTs effective. Though Fateweaver and the grimoire obviously have more uses than just the WTs.

    It’s not a bad idea, but I still think there are more effective ways to use those points.

    Keep in mind also that you could only do this with Daemons as your primary (or at 2k+ points), because you can’t get Fateweaver and the grimoire in a secondary attachment. This means that the WTs would be the only Fast Attack option you could take from your secondary attachment.

    Is that really the best use of those points?

    • Jeremy Veysseire
      MikhailLenin June 13, 2013 4:40 pm
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      Does the Lord of Fate rule does not make a distinction on FOC. So one could buy Kairos as HQ of Ally and take Heavy Supper Daemon Prince for Grimoire.

      • MrPhoenyxx June 14, 2013 6:24 am
        #

        Missed that one. Thanks!

    • Reecius
      Reecius June 14, 2013 9:08 am
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      I agree, I said in the article that there were much scarier things to use it on, but it would be fun to do!

  6. Black Blow Fly June 13, 2013 2:16 pm
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    Too many points and not worth it on 1W models .

    • jy2
      jy2 June 13, 2013 9:38 pm
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      Yup. Spend about 700pts – Fateweaver, DP w/Grimoire and 1 troop – just to buff up 1 under-performing unit?

      Sorry, think I’m going to have to pass.

      However, I did use the Grimoire in a game on my Helturkey the turn it came in to protect against an Icarus Lascannon. Unfortunately, I rolled a ‘1’ (and no Fatey). 🙁

    • Reecius
      Reecius June 14, 2013 9:08 am
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      But awesome!

  7. stengaih June 13, 2013 9:22 pm
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    I believe there is a difference between the wording in the rules. The daemon entry states that it affects units with the “daemon of….” while the units in the CSM codex has the regular daemon rule and a “mark of ….” hence these are not the same and i would think that this tactic would not work since the codexes makes a difference between the two. But if it works you could also make use of the daemons instrument of chaos to increase the chances of you helldrake arriving.

    • stengaih June 13, 2013 9:33 pm
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      To clarify my thinking i would refer to the difference etween the mark of nurgle in both books. In CSM you get +1T while the daemon variant is shrouding. The only one that gets the same bonus is the daemon prince so i believe he is the only one from codex CSM that could benefit from this specific tactic

      • Tangentical June 13, 2013 11:38 pm
        #

        Daemon is a USR not a classification. The grimoire states that it affects units with the Daemon special rule. Warp Talons have the Daemon special rule. It is not a case of marks or their effect and neither does the Grimoire’s rule specify Codex: Daemons. This is partly because you can be nasty and de-buff other ‘Daemon’ units e.g. The Avatar but it also means it can be used to buff any friendly units with the Daemon USR. Personally I’d still stick to Screamers with divination heralds trying to get the 4+ invul power or Seekers in my allies for using the Grimoire and max the Hellturkeys, even more if playing Reecius as his hatred would cloud his judgement (all Star Wars like).

  8. MrPhoenyxx June 14, 2013 6:36 am
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    Hey Reecius!

    I just read your altered notes in red, and I would agree. The Mark of Tzeentch is clearly limited to a 3+ invulnerable save, but it is purchased as part of creating your model. Even if you give the model a Sigil of Corruption, you would never be able to improve the invulnerable save beyond 3+.

    However, the Grimoire occurs well after that as a buff during game play and has no such restriction.

    • jy2
      jy2 June 14, 2013 7:31 am
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      You can if you cast Forewarning from a Tzeentch daemon psyker. Forewarning -> 4++. Then Grimoire -> 2++. Plus re-roll’s of ‘1’ because you are Tzeentch.

    • jy2
      jy2 June 14, 2013 7:32 am
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      I meant “Plus re-roll’s of ’1′ if you are Tzeentch.”

  9. Vidar June 15, 2013 9:03 am
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    Phil Kelley has shown his ability to write tactically deep and capable codices. Then he wrote CSM. The only excuse for the book is that he wanted to push the CSM army to the side yea some of these writers are that infantile. Look to Matt ward’s handling of Sicarius. He lost to him once and cowed to need him in his new incarnation.
    Kelley’s CSM has a level of internal/external balance that is anachronistic to his quality historic production. Something happened with CSM

    • Reecius
      Reecius June 16, 2013 10:54 am
      #

      I agree. For someone who usually writers amazing books, CSM sucks so hard. I gave up on trying to write a list I’d like to play. It’s all because of the troops. The troops suck! If a book doesn’t have good troops, I don’t like it. Eldar: amazing troops. Space marines and Grey Knights: Amazing troops. Orks: their troops are their best unit! Nids: lots of great troops. Those are my favorite armies to play and all for that reason.

  10. Rantimus
    Rantimus June 16, 2013 3:36 am
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    Unless there are mini dexes that expand the traitor legions….
    (boy do I hope they do it!)

    • Reecius
      Reecius June 16, 2013 10:58 am
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      Please be true!!

    • MrPhoenyxx June 17, 2013 6:11 am
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      That won’t save the book. Mini dexes are not going to totally rewrite the codex, just add nuances. It is unlikely you will new a new troop for a minidex, instead you’ll get a FOC slot change or something and see cult troops as straight troops.

      But that doesn’t help, since all of the cult troops are badly over-costed, which is why they also suck as troops.

      Don’t get me wrong. I would like to see, and will enjoy, mini-dexes. But the only thing that is going to fix the CSM book is if they sit down and FIX the CSM book, which is now loooooooong overdue.

      • Reecius
        Reecius June 17, 2013 8:05 am
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        All they need to do, IMO, is make CSM stubborn or something, or give them a reroll on LD tests. That alone would make them worth it for me.

  11. Lord Krungharr November 13, 2013 11:35 am
    #

    I still have never used Warp Talons. They sure look cool, but I think Claw Termies in a Land Raider will still outperform them any time.

    For a more Daemonic route, I think Huron nominating a huge unit of Tzeentch Possessed is much better, or Khorne Possessed with Icon of Wrath maybe. Still cheaper than a bunch of Warp Talons too.

    I love using the Grimoire on the Maulerfiend, always a hoot!

    The only time I need to use it on the Helldrake is if they have Interceptor stuff (ie, Tau). If there’s a Storm Raven or something already on the board I zip it up close to it so they have to Zoom beyond the Drake.