Another Perspective on FW in Tournaments

fulgrim model forge world

Hey everyone, Reecius here reposting an email I got from a Jeff S. who wanted to share his opinion on the ongoing FW debate. I feel it is important to look at things like this from every angle and let everyone have their say. We have heard my opinion plenty that it is good, we’ve heard Raw Dogger say he thinks it’s not good, and here is a middle ground voice. Read on and then let us know what you all think.

It is getting exhausting listening to people incorrectly using Forge World units in 6th Ed 40K. Hopefully this will help. I feel it is finally time to set the record straight on what is and is not a 6th Ed legal FW unit.

This has not only been a problem on numerous podcast but a number of actual 40K Tournaments are incorrectly applying Forge World to their events.
The ONLY models that have been play-tested and approved for use with 6Th Edition are those that are on this list provided by their download section of the Forge World website.
Other than this list no other Forge World vehicles should ever be included in a 6th Ed event of any kind except for fun with one exception. Vehicles released since August of last year via NEW Imperial Armor books and supplement that have the 40K Approved stamp have been play tested and made viable for use in 6th Edition games. Those vehicles can also be added to this list including the Tau models that have been included in the second edition of Imperial Armor Volume 3 “The Tarros Campaign”
You will notice many vehicles and models are not part of the list of models  that have been reworked and adjusted for 6th Ed. Chief among these, you will note, is the Thudd Gun. The use of the Thudd Gun and many other IG artillery pieces from FW is NOT legal under 6th Ed as they have not been re-written for the 6th Ed Rules.
Also note that NO Character models should EVER be used, except for fun, from Imperial Armor books as those characters have been created for use in specific campaign environments and not for general play. Perhaps in the near future Forge World will re-work character models for inclusion in general 6th Ed games but as of now they have not done so. Using them can result in serious balance and OP issues when they are outside their design environment.
I am not pointing fingers at any specific group for misrepresenting the use of Forge World in 6th Edition gaming at all. It is just a general misconception and a mistake that has been made even in Forge World legal events. Hopefully this can be corrected so that this very enjoyable, balancing and growing element of the 40K Universe can continue to grow.  Right now its continued growth with in 40K events is being endangered by prejudice that is being caused by using ” illegal ” units in games and events.
I think it is fair to say that this mis-conception probably falls largely at the feet of Forge World for not being clearer in their documentation and updates. At the very least it should be easier to find the FAQ’s and updates on their site. As part of the Games Workshop company Forge World is no less guilty of occasionally dropping the clarity ball than any other part of the company.
As part of Games Workshop, Forge World is part of the 40K Universe. Its “legal” units receive extensive play testing and are part of the game now. The cost of Forge World units are very nearly identical to the cost of general release kits now and are actually cheaper in some cases. Although it is true that getting FW models discounted, as is common with general release models, is nearly impossible. In every way the game of 40K is improved by the inclusion of Forge World models when they are play tested and legally part of the 6th Ed approved vehicle and model list.
I hope this helps in some way clarify and fix the one element of Forge World becoming commonly part of the general 40K environment that is causing issues for some in our community.
Jeff Stuckey


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21 Responses to “Another Perspective on FW in Tournaments”

  1. Shane June 10, 2013 12:30 am

    Wow realy, just really!
    This middle ground thing simply has no place on the interwebs. These sensible thoughts should be kept to ones self unless it really was your intention to troll everyone.

    There can be no middle ground I tells you!

    But really this is probably one of the best written pieces on the topic I’ve seen. I don’t know a lot about the whole 6th ed legal thing from Forge World but I have seen mention of it. If that is correct and things with the 6th ed legal stamp are play tested to esure ballance then it’s pretty hard to tell someone they can’t use them.
    Likewise though if Forgeworld have aknowledged the need to play test for ballance then that would suggest things without the 6th ed stamp probably shouldn’t be used until updated rules with the 6th ed stamp are available?

    Definitely food for thought and certainly opened my eyes to a whole new side of the debate.

  2. Peregrine June 10, 2013 12:47 am

    Sadly this is full of bad information. The artillery (thudd guns included) units have all been published with 6th edition rules and a “40k approved” stamp in IA1 second edition, and some of the characters also have 6th edition rules and a “40k approved” stamp for general use. If people are going to make public statements about this kind of thing they really need to get the actual books, not just the pdfs on the website.

    • Stucarius June 10, 2013 7:03 pm

      Please refer to my additional comments further down the thread concerning this.

  3. nimrod451 June 10, 2013 1:09 am

    I think that is reasonable – but i like forge world.. and frankly. I like the characters forge world gives us the option to use not just the gear. I’m not really a competitive player.. but..

    ..none of the FW character’s I’ve seen a game breaking. At least in terms of the Badab war stuff.. I like the fluffy element of letting your marines play drastically different… just with one Codex..

    One of the reasons i stay away from tournaments is.. i like marines.. i dont want to be the 9 billion others playing Codex(Vanilla) Marines.. FW gives you a bit of an out for this.. usually at the cost of combat the bees knees.

    ..then again.. i’m willing to support what i like..which includes FW..heh Also I will say.. with Codex Creep whats unbalanced?

  4. nimrod451 June 10, 2013 1:12 am

    Also i would point to this – updates for characters on sixth

    ..and update for psychers in sixth.

    • khambatta June 10, 2013 8:02 am

      Ah, you beat me to it. Here’s some Space Marines:

      There is a similar update for IG, but I think most of that’s been superceded by the newer books.

      On the campaign-only subject, IA8 did have such units in a separate section, with an FAQ stating those (and only those) were not approved for general 40k use. Now, it’s possible some of the other books may say something similar, but to try and apply that to all the characters, in all the books, is bunk.

    • Stucarius June 10, 2013 7:04 pm

      Please refer to my additional comments further down the thread concerning this.

  5. theresponsibleone June 10, 2013 2:40 am

    Actually, the Quad launcher and Rapier is in Imperial Armour One: Second Edition…

  6. Sythica June 10, 2013 6:31 am

    “Yeah, well, that’s just like, your opinion, man.”

    or how about:

    -holds up a little toy doll-
    “Show us on the doll where the bad Thudd Gun touched you.”

  7. Alex Yuen June 10, 2013 10:32 am

    It was a good write up until this part and after:

    “Its “legal” units receive extensive play testing and are part of the game now.”

    FW is not part of warhammer 40k but an expansion. if not then why even call it a FW and also none of the FAQ, rulebook and codex include FW. FW is mean to keep at an extension of warhammer 40k.

    The FW problem is like going to pool tournies. one is playing 8 ball and the other one is playing 9 ball. And they are fighting which one is the “correct” way to play pool. Either you are a 8 ball player or 9 ball player or both but you don’t go to a 9 ball tournie and use 8 ball tactics and complain about the tournie use 9 ball rules and tactics.

    Other example is like playing in starcraft tournies. You don’t go to a brood war event and complain about players using dark archon. And complain about brood war should not be part of starcraft. And you don’t go to the original starcraft event and say only if i have my lurker then argue why brood war should be the real tournie.

    The last part, Jeff didn’t help to clarify but muddy the water.

  8. Hippesthippo June 10, 2013 3:49 pm

    This discussions serves a good point. Playing with FW at a tournament is just too goddamn confusing to be worth it.

    Seriosuly, rules are all over the place. A million books/faqs/updates and nobody knows what supercedes what and when. Then you add in the 20 pages of independent tourney faqs attempting to make sense of all the f’d up rules and it just turns into one giant mess of unbalanced, poorly written, poorly collected rules.

    No thanks.

    • Shane June 11, 2013 3:23 am

      I see your point about confusing rules, but thats one of the stipulations at my local tournaments, if you want to field FW you must bring the relivent books and make the rules available to your opponent or the TO wont let you put it on the table.
      It’s really not too difficult to handle like that, it just means the person with the Forgewold has some explaining to do pre game and if asked must produce the rules to back it up.

      I don’t really think that’s the crux of the problem people have with FW though. The issue most have is simply that certain things are a little (or in some cases a lot) unballanced and with allies in 6th ed it’s easier to abuse those things than in any recent previous edition.

      I’m not by any means against FW, for the most part I love it as it adds even more depth to the game I love, not to mention most of the models are stunning.
      I just feel that without the correct checks and ballances it has the potential to spoil the ballance of competative gaming and I just don’t trust GW / FW with those checks and ballances. Lets face it, they are primarily focused on selling models, whats it to them if something slips through under costed – tens of thousands in extra sales that’s what!

  9. Stucarius June 10, 2013 7:02 pm


    As the author I wanted to add a few extra thoughts.

    It is true you could consider the Thudd Gun as “Hev Art” as that is its classification. However it does not address the problems that occur in the actual special rules related to the operation of Thudd Guns.

    As for Characters they have gotten an update but I feel that across the board you cannot just blanket include them simply because there are a handful that are really really powerful and like I said the Characters were designed with specific books and campaigns in mind. The vehicles for the most part do not fall exactly into this category.

    Almost with out exception the people who have been beating down, to the point of mocking, the idea of FW use Hev Art and Characters as examples of how you can break events with FW.

    The answer is simple. Allow all non super heavy Forge World at any 40k event with the exceptions of Hev Art and Characters. Its just such a simple solution and it allows people who love FW to field the models they have built to add flavor and excitement to the narrative of their personal army. Even with those exceptions 90% of the remainder is what FW lovers want to include in their armies in any case. For many of us it allows our armies to take to the field with out having to play the tit for tat game of countering flyers and machine gun armies by ruining the theme of out 40K armies.

    Forgetting everything else. There has yet to be a single large event that allowed FW where the event was dominated by armies using FW units. On the other hand we see events with out FW consistently being dominated by the same couple of armies who just happen by the whims of design to have codex units other forces cannot counter with their own codex units.

    There simply is no compelling reason to not use FW in 40K Event Gaming. Exclude the two things the haters harp on and lets go forward as a community with a far richer and vibrant table top experience.

    Jeff Stuckey

  10. Jason
    Raw Dogger June 11, 2013 1:40 pm

    I really don’t think I was ‘against’ the use of Forge World in tournaments, though I could certainly write up an article about that and get yelled at a bunch. I think the best way to counter the looming FW menace is just create a 0-1 FW into the legal force org for your tournament.

    • Hippesthippo June 11, 2013 8:09 pm

      I think that is a very fair compromise.

  11. Douglas of Wolfbrothers June 12, 2013 7:25 am

    They are legal if they are 40k stamped, why is that hard?

  12. Zondo23 June 12, 2013 1:18 pm

    I really just don’t see any issue with FW..
    In regards to Characters I feel that the claim that they are campaign specific is at really only suppositional. I can’t find anything in my FW books that state this. And how many Eldrads and Draigos and Vulkans have you faced?
    And I don’t really like the 0-1 idea either. I love seeing a Krieg army or a corsair army. Bring on some of those Tau suits. And really, more OP then ‘cron air? Craptons of Heldrakes? If I’m going to make a beatface list FW being available or not isn’t going to stop me at all.
    Complaining about unfamiliar rules? This one cracks me up for a couple reasons. What are you gonna do if GW really does start pumping out supplemental codices? Let’s complain about rules coming out too fast now. Too expensive? What in this hobby isn’t?
    It seems like the only valid, honest argument against FW is “I don’t want FW in tournaments because limiting options makes list building easier.” and more important then generalship.
    But hey, just my opinion. YMMV

    • Reecius
      Reecius June 12, 2013 4:47 pm

      You make some good points and I largely agree. FW is fun, but can be abused just like anything in the game. So far in our experience, it honestly doesn’t change things that much.

    • Fred Bole II June 12, 2013 8:11 pm

      My friend won’t let me use my Caestus, or Mortis Dreads against him because it’s “op FW stuff.” His list usually includes two Helldrakes and a 300+pt Daemon Prince with wings and all the fixings.

      It makes me hate the game, the money I’ve spent on resin, and my DA codex because I can’t fill gaps without allies.

      I don’t know how people deal with it in tourneys…

      • Reecius
        Reecius June 12, 2013 8:22 pm

        You’re friend is being pretty close minded, IMO.