New Super 40K Combo?

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I was discussing 40K with Vidar (member of our team) who recently returned from New Orelans. He was playing there in a local group and said he encountered a combo that was pretty nasty.

I always like hearing about how 40K is played in communities outside of what I am familiar with. Vidar recently played in New Orleans and was telling us about a combination of units he encountered that he described as devastating. What do you all think?

The combo consists of 3 units of Grey Knight Purgators, each with a Tech Marine with a Conversion Beamer. The Purgators confer their ability to fire on a target they can’t see on the Techmarine, which means the conversion beamers can fire at max strength (str 10) pretty much anywhere on the board. That is pretty damn brutal. Not to mention the considerable firepower of the Purgators, themselves.

One of the units is in a Bastion with Coteaz who goes for the Divination power that lets him reroll his armor saves, so that any damage conferred onto the unit, he tanks, making them really resilient. Coteaz also confers his “I’ve Been Expecting You,” special rule on the Purgators which helps to fight back against reserves.

This provides a very solid base of fire. You toss in some cheap acolytes in Razorbacks as troops and for additional firepower, a counter attack unit or two, and you have yourself a solid army.

Is it an uber combo? I don’t know. I think it is a very solid combination of units and abilities, but there are some match-ups that will really stink, such as a horde army. But, against your typical MEQ opponent, I think it could be really dependable.

What do you all think? a worthwhile combo or no? At the least, I think it is quite creative and it is nice to see something beyond the typical Psyfilmen spam (although that is damn good).

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42 Responses to “New Super 40K Combo?”

  1. Shinkaze January 3, 2013 1:39 am
    #

    Sounds really cool, but definitely not uber. They fail the check 17% of the time. Same thing with the Lucius Drop Pod. It could never be broken. It seems inefficient to have 3 units trying to do that.

    • Reecius
      Reecius January 3, 2013 12:41 pm
      #

      Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. If you position them to keep them out of LOS, and you fail the check, that very expensive unit won’t be firing for a turn.

      It’s still really good, but I was leaning towards not uber as well.

  2. Son of Dorn January 3, 2013 2:11 am
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    A cool trick, but with runes of warding being so popular, I don’t see it doing well every time.

    • Reecius
      Reecius January 3, 2013 12:43 pm
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      Again, a very good point. Any list that depends too heavily on psychic powers runs the risk of having their battle plan screwed up quite severely when they come up against effective psyker defense.

      • bugsculptor January 4, 2013 10:53 pm
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        Yep, I’d pod in my doom to try and cut that psychic shenanigans in half.

        Also, purgation squads are one of the most fun squads to shoot with biovores…. even killing one marine means knocking away a nice expensive psycannon.

        • Reecius
          Reecius January 5, 2013 3:57 pm
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          Haha, very true!

  3. kombat January 3, 2013 5:01 am
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    Have tried purgation squad with coteaz and it is quite effective but the purgation want to be quite close up with their psycannons. The combo is especially effective if coteaz gets the ignore cover psychic power. But i dont see how the techmarine combos very well with the purgation squad tbh

    • Reecius
      Reecius January 3, 2013 12:44 pm
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      From the way it sounded it was largely to allow them to ignore cover with their conversion beamer.

  4. Mike Earley January 3, 2013 5:48 am
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    In general Coteaz seems to be a popular efficient build in 6th edition. Like Baron Sathonyx, he’s cheap and brings several great game-impacting abilities (like impacting reserves dropping nearby), and also acts as a force multiplier, at a stupidly low price. Because he opens up troop slots for henchmen he also allows for really cheap, effective Troop choices (I’m seeing a lot of multiple-plasma units in storm ravens and chimeras). So he lets you take your mandatory choices cheaply and with a high rate of dangerous firepower, makes his unit better, makes other units better (through psychic powers), and makes the enemy worse (impacting reserves). I’m sure there is more than one nasty combo involving Coteaz.

    As for the techmarine thing, yeah, sounds nasty for sure. It also sounds expensive for the firepower you’re getting, so I tend to be OK with those types of situations.

    • Reecius
      Reecius January 3, 2013 12:46 pm
      #

      I agree with your analysis. The Techmainres can be really good, as can purgation squads, but I don’t feel that they’re overwhelmingly good.

      Coteaz is just amazing for this points. He is so good, probably too good, honestly. I think he should cost a bit more than he does.

  5. Aycee71 January 3, 2013 7:29 am
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    If he hits a unit he can’t see then how does he kill anything except for vehicles? At the time you can’t see any models the wound pool empties.

    • jy2
      jy2 January 3, 2013 9:45 am
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      It’s one of those times where you have to assume it works. Otherwise, units like hive guards, Tau SMS and puration squads and also barrages would never work because their rules never really fully exempts them from the wound allocation rules.

      • Reecius
        Reecius January 3, 2013 12:47 pm
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        Exactly. This is a case of RAI vs. RAW. RAW in this case would be silly and game breaking.

  6. Aycee71 January 3, 2013 10:49 am
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    Being a Necron player, I have had a lot of RAW sand kicked in my face, so I find a bit of perverse satisfaction when I can return the favor. In the BRB on page 16 it clearly states that once all models have been removed that are in LOS that the wound pool is emptied. As far as I know there is no FAQ or errata that has removed that step or has an exception.

    • Reecius
      Reecius January 3, 2013 12:48 pm
      #

      The implication here is that these weapons do not need LOS, their rules either explicitly or implicitly indicate that they do not.

      We stick to RAW here a lot as it is the most fair way to play the game, however in some cases it is fairly ridiculous. Things like terminators not having terminator armor and such are just too silly to play by RAW.

  7. Elios Harg January 3, 2013 11:44 am
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    You have two interpretations available to you. In one the rule does not work whatsoever and is a waste of ink. The other allows the rule to function normally. Let’s see which one is intended?

    If someone ever tries to say astral aim doesn’t allow me to wound, I’ll gladly accept their forfeit because there’s no way I am allowing them to play the game like that. I’ll just continue playing as though the wounded models are dead and ignore anything he tries to do with them. Or I’d just punch the guy in his junk and call it a day. Depends on how much I’ve had to drink beforehand.

    • Reecius
      Reecius January 3, 2013 12:49 pm
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      Hahaha, I find the kick to the dick, or punch to the nuts works wonders in resolving sticky RAW debates! hahaha

  8. Aycee71 January 3, 2013 12:52 pm
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    If you want to play WH40K with rules as intended then there are a lot of things that Necrons can do because the intended rules are written in a vague manner and also are written towards a fifth edition mind set. For example when firing the Death Ray it says to pick a point anywhere with range. To me that is a clear indication that anywhere means just that…anywhere in front, back, or to the side of the Doom Scythe. Often times that is over ruled to RAW where the weapon is portrayed as having a narrow LOS and the point of the line has to be picked in that limited field of fire. That’s just one out of several I can bring up. Okay…fine. I can play it that way but then when a non-barrage weapon hits a unit of mine that is not in LOS the wound pool empties before applying the wounds to any model in that unit.

    • Reecius
      Reecius January 3, 2013 1:12 pm
      #

      I understand your frustration, the rules are poorly written and ambiguous. However, even in our justice system, we require judges and lawyers to interpret the laws.

      There is more than one way to read pretty much anything (besides math) and as such, there will always be some conflict on how to read a rule. The primary difference between a player reading a rule for his army, and a TO reading a rule for the interpretation of a tournament (in my experience anyway) is that a player tends to interpret a rule in a way that most benefits him where a TO tends to interpret a rule in a way that most benefits the game.

      So, while we do have to use RAI at times, we should do our best to keep our personal biases out of the decisions we make.

      • Aycee71 January 3, 2013 2:09 pm
        #

        Unlike the justice system there is no process for appealing decisions to a final arbitration in front of a Supreme Court. Every once in a great while GW deems it to release a FAQ or errata but it is more likely not. As long as you realize that in the tournaments that you TO, the players will be playing Reecius’ version of 40K and that you have the answers to the rule questions before hand so that a player can reference that before playing then it is all fine.

        • jy2
          jy2 January 3, 2013 3:21 pm
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          Actually, every single tournament uses the RAI in this case. I haven’t seen a single tournament that disallows hive guards, SMS or barrages to work the way they were intended. The tournaments are not all about pure RAW. They are about the RAW that is actually feasible in gameplay terms.

          I also play necrons and use Doom scythes. If you want to use it, bring it up with the TO beforehand to see what they say.

          • Reecius
            Reecius January 3, 2013 4:46 pm
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            Yeah, it is a matter of realism. Some rules you literally can’t play RAW.

          • Hippesthippo January 3, 2013 9:21 pm
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            “Some rules you literally can’t play RAW.”

            So you can’t play RAW and have to read the codex and fluff to understand how barrage works? (I have no real life military experience)

            You mean like when a Scythe crashes and there are no rules to tell you what happens with leadership and rp if they were in fact to take damage?

            Sorry to troll, but at least it seems you are finally able to understand my argument.

          • Reecius
            Reecius January 3, 2013 10:32 pm
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            I was always able to understand your argument, that wasn’t the issue. The issue was that in this case, my reading of it was in conflict with yours. Just as Aycee71’s reading of the Doom Scythe’s rule conflicts with mine.

            It comes down to personal interpretation. We always try to follow RAW as a rule, unless it seems obvious that RAW is not only not RAI, but also somehow hurts the game. As much as we try to be objective, in the end, we do end up being subjective and making judgement calls at times. When two people see things differently and believe they are both right, that is when the butting of heads begins.

        • Reecius
          Reecius January 3, 2013 4:41 pm
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          I agree. And in the end, the TO is the final arbiter on how we interpret rules. This is their right as they are taking the time and investing the money to make the event run. But I also agree that in good faith, those interpretations need to be posted ahead of time.

          In the past we had INAT, now we need to come up with our own version. I plan on having what we have so far up on the site within a week, and as questions continue to come in, we will update it.

          • bugsculptor January 4, 2013 11:12 pm
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            Bravo. I totally agree it’s not too late for you guys to break with the pack and rule against fortuned Vect.

          • Reecius
            Reecius January 5, 2013 3:57 pm
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            That one is just so cut and dry to me, though. Just like attached, allied ICs being able to ride in a unit’s dedicated transport. I don’t like it at all, but we can’t let our personal biases influence our rules calls.

  9. Courtney January 3, 2013 1:24 pm
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    Any where within range does mean it has to be within the vehicles ability to aim at it. Just like a sponson has to be able to point at a target so does your ray. You do realize that a RAY is a narrow beam similar to a laser (in real life) and that the Doom Scythe body forms the basis for the ray’s tube. So as intended it has a narrow line of sight any anyone with common since would take that into consideration for targeting “anywhere within range” since you can’t target anything outside your line of sight unless specifically mentioned. If they INTENDED you to be able to target anything, anywhere they wouldn’t give you a line of sight. Dint try to bring up dumb stuff man. Neurons have a lot of solid advantages but y’all try to bend a lot of rules too.

    • Aycee71 January 3, 2013 2:33 pm
      #

      I could go on and on about assumptions being made about the weapon mount and codex specific vs BRB page 7…instead I’ll just ask where else in any book does it have the wording “…nominate a on the battlefield anywhere within the weapon’s range…” and I’ll reconsider it being a 360 degree reference. At our all the FLGS I play at here have ruled it to mean 360 degrees.

      • Reecius
        Reecius January 3, 2013 4:44 pm
        #

        I encourage you guys to have a spirited debate, but here we insist that people keep it civil. Not saying you guys aren’t, but this is how these types of arguments devolve into name calling and such, which we don’t allow here.

        Continue on though, I like seeing the points people bring up.

  10. Hulksmash January 3, 2013 2:16 pm
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    Blasts can kill things out of line of sight. It’s specifically mentioned in the rules so I’m not sure how this is a RAW issue?

    Pg. 33, Third Column, Top paragraph.

  11. Hulksmash January 3, 2013 2:17 pm
    #

    I’ll check on the wording for Hive Guard Cannons and Purgation’s psychic power but I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s just as clear. Just don’t have my Nid or GK codex on my Nook.

    • Reecius
      Reecius January 3, 2013 4:41 pm
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      I didn’t look, but I am fairly certain they do specify that they don’t need LOS, which to me, means the rule in the BRB about LOS and the would pool would be moot.

  12. Vidar January 3, 2013 7:21 pm
    #

    This is the guys list:

    Coteaz

    3 tech marines w/ conversion beam

    3 purgation squads with 3 cannons and a flamer

    2 war bands with 3 plasma cannons and a jakaro

    A bastion with Icarus.

    That is the core. So the tech marines join a purgation squad and bid in reinforced cover out of sight and cast astral aim every round. Coteaz joined a plasma cannon/jokaroe war and in the bastion and chose divination.

    Shutting the psychic phase down or using torrents is the real answer. Armchair. This one if you want but this list kills things. This was the least fun game of 40k I ever played.

    • winterman January 3, 2013 10:55 pm
      #

      So even with getting the mandatory 4+ cover from astral aim it was that killy? Hard to imagine 3 small blasts with 4+ cover are all that bad for the points. Annoying to play against though I imagine.

  13. Alex Yuen January 4, 2013 11:22 am
    #

    This is the guys list:

    Coteaz

    3 tech marines w/ conversion beam

    3 purgation squads with 3 cannons and a flamer

    2 war bands with 3 plasma cannons and a jakaro

    A bastion with Icarus.

    That is the core. So the tech marines join a purgation squad and bid in reinforced cover out of sight and cast astral aim every round. Coteaz joined a plasma cannon/jokaroe war and in the bastion and chose divination.

    Shutting the psychic phase down or using torrents is the real answer. Armchair. This one if you want but this list kills things. This was the least fun game of 40k I ever played.

    I just don’t see how this is OP? If he put the tech squad way in his backyard then why not just take IG and have a field day with Barrage. IG does the same thing, out of sight and dropping big template everywhere. and if he going to use his purgation squad then he need to put in around 24″ in to something. Then is just a squad with 3+ cover save.

  14. propa January 5, 2013 8:51 am
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    I am pretty sure coteaz cannot target something with his special abillity from within a vehicle or building.

    • Reecius
      Reecius January 5, 2013 1:13 pm
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      Yeah, that is another point I forgot to bring up. He certainly can’t from within a vehicle, which I also assume would apply to buildings. I will have to look that one up.

    • jy2
      jy2 January 5, 2013 2:39 pm
      #

      He cannot use special rules like I’ve Been Expecting You from within a vehicle/building. He also can’t cast malediction psychic powers that affect the enemy (i.e. Misfortune) but he can cast psychic powers that affect his own unit (i.e. Prescience). Likewise, the purgation units can cast Astral Aim because it affects themselves only.

      • Reecius
        Reecius January 5, 2013 3:58 pm
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        Thanks, Jim. I didn’t look up his rule in buildings, but that makes sense.

  15. David Key January 5, 2013 12:28 pm
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    This is a little late to the discussion and in a somewhat different slant, but I find that a full 10 man Purgation squad just with Psy ammo (no heavy weapons) is nice. The reason for this is that they limit the cover save to a 4+. Many horde units are hiding and going to ground to get a 2+ cover save. The Astral Aim power neatly deals with this. Perhaps unintended, but no less powerful.

    I don’t know about the techmarine though. It is not like his conversion beamer is the shit. They are good, but not insane and not a super deal points wise. I personally think tech marines are dope because they can improve cover and carry all the cheesy grenades.

    • jy2
      jy2 January 5, 2013 2:46 pm
      #

      Except, of course, when you fire at fearless hordes like nids, orks and daemons who are only gettting 5+ cover normally and who can’t go-to-ground while fearless.