our conversation from last week about Chaos builds and the troops section.
Chaos list and the conundrum I was in as to what units to take. And also, I
agree that you cannot take a Blastmaster until you have a full 10 Noise Marines
in a unit. Thanks for pointing that out, I misread the rule initially.
to any comments last week, it was too busy in the shop) I think that I either
didn’t communicate the point well enough or some folks were missing it.
have talked to are also experiencing—is that Chaos troops are either too
expensive for what you get, or too unreliable for a competitive build. What do
I mean by that?
it! I think Phil Kelly did a great job establishing internal balance within the
book, captured a lot of flavor of Chaos and in general gave us a really good
product. From a competitive standpoint though, the troops give me trouble. I am
not at all saying they’re bad, just not optimal. I would like to hear your
feedback as well, though as it always makes me happy to hear folks finding a
way to win with a unit I had thought was not good.
competitive in 6th ed, you need to be able to do the following
things in a true take all comers list:
about taking objectives.
are alive and well.
Horde Orks, Gant Farms and horde infantry lists. We’re seeing a lot of
no-vehicle lists doing quite well and they’ve always been great spoiler armies.
dealing with Terminators, etc.
right now, plan for them or be run over by them.
Harliestar is still brutal, and Paladins, while diminished, are still a very
real threat amongst some of the other crazy units out there.
beastly tanks are back in a big way, and if all you’ve got are Auto Cannons and
Plasma Guns, kiss your butt goodbye.
of points to do. Chaos troops are pricey and suck away your points from accomplishing
the above tasks.
chaos troops. I have 2 strategies with troops in general in 6th ed.
I either want them cheap and numerous or very durable and/or reliable if they
can reserve them, hide them, or just flood the field with them and survive
through safety in numbers. If they have some decent offensive punch, great!
That is just icing on the cake, really.
with a Shredder and Splinter Cannon. 105 points, mobile, shooty, and with
enough bodies to soak some casualties, but not a big enough threat to rank high
on your opponent’s target priority list. In a vacuum the unit doesn’t look like
much, but when you have 2-4 of those units you have a TON of points left over
to pour into pure offensive punch. Another good example is 10 IG Vets with 3
Plasma Guns. Mobile, great firepower and only 115pts. You can take a lot of
them for a low points investment. Lastly, for my Orks, a unit of 20 Shoota Boys
with no upgrades weighs in at 120pts. Excellent objective holding unit that
also serves quite well for attacking other infantry if you need them to. Plus,
until they take a lot of damage, they’re fearless. Often, my opponent’s won’t
even bother shooting them as they sit on an objective quietly and have too many
bodies to really warrant anything other than serious attention. We’ve been
having great success with these style units in 6th ed book missions,
or missions that are very similar to them.
durable and/or very reliable. A perfect example is a squad of Tactical Marines
with a Multi Melta and a Plasma Gun. 180pts, and such a flexible unit. They can
shoot quite well on the move, have an answer for light and heavy infantry and
mech, are scoring, can split into two squads with Combat Squads, are very
slippery and reliable with ATSKNF and Combat Tactics and in general, are a
great scoring unit.
with 2 Plasma Guns runs you 170pts. Roughly equivalent in price and firepower
to the Tactical Marines. However, they are not even close to comparable in
application. For that extra 10 points, Tactical Marines get ATSKNF, Combat
Tactics and Combat Squads. They are infinitely more survivable and reliable
than the CSMs. Why? They will always recover from broken morale where CSMs will
not. One bad combat and your CSMs are run down where your Tac marines fall back
on purpose, auto-rally and then blast their attackers, even counter charging if
needs be. That means the points invested in the Tac Marines are safe, that unit
is reliable to the last man. CSMs on the other hand, can be gone and dead with
one flubbed morale check, and in a close game, that is game.
troops need to go upfield and take an objective, you need to rely on them to
not lose you the game on a single morale check. With Vets of the Long War, CSMs
get better for sure, and it mitigates the problem, but it sure doesn’t fix it.
The problem is exacerbated when you start pouring points into the unit. They
become more and more of a risk the more you give them. And, if you gear them
for assault, you will often find yourself in combat with a superior assault
army that just guts you. MEQ stat lines really aren’t geared for being good in
assault unless they’re getting stat boosts somehow, or rocking a Storm Shield
and Thunder Hammer or something similar. Too many dedicated assault units in
the game will shred MEQs to justify building an army around them.
scoring units. However, they are so expensive! Again, remember all of the
things your list needs to do to be a true take all comers list in 6th.
You need a lot of points free to take units to counter the popular builds out
there, or go into a tournament trusting to just get lucky match-ups and not draw
a hard counter.
to blow 1,000pts, easy…..for 30- 40 MEQ bodies? They die just like Marines
despite weighing in at such a heftier price point. Compare that to 4 units of
Tactical Marines at 720pts. You get as many or more bodies, plus all the extra
points to put into firepower. There really isn’t much of a comparison. Plague
Marines are the obvious exception to this though, and can be quite good in
small units which we’ll get to.
that the cost vs. damage output ratio is usually not worth it, IMO. Berzerkers
for example, cost a boatload, and do have some good abilities, but they will
get obliterated by Harlequins, Daemons, Incubi, etc. Anything that ignores
armor and swings first will make them a total waste of points. Noise Marines
are the best value of the lot, IMO, but again, they cost a ton and die like
Marines. Thousand Sons, the poor guys, have a nifty 4++, but who is ever going
to shoot anything but volume of fire weapons into these guys unless they have
no choice? Bolters kill them just as well as normal Marines with the added
benefit of taking more points away with every kill.
taking a unit of 5 with 2 Plasma Guns is a really solid troops choice. 150pts,
Fearless, good firepower and not at all bad assault with their poison weapons. These
to me, are the best choice as you can take 2-4 of them and have a nice, solid
base of scoring units. A larger unit with a support character(s) would also
make a great aggressive troop to go upfield and take objectives. Still pricey,
but the increased durability helps mitigate that a lot.
leadership control that CSMs do. Again, Vets of the Long War Helps, but doesn’t
solve it. As with CSMs, character support mitigates this, but it is really
reducing your ability to build a well rounded list as these units, if you put
any points into them, need character support to babysit them and ensure they
don’t fail you at a critical moment and see all the points invested gone.
Cheap as chips. 50pts gets you 10. Take 4 units of them and for only 200pts,
you have 4 scoring options that will be totally sufficient in most games to
satisfy mission criteria. You can reserve them, hide them, or toss them in the
way of oncoming Deathstars if needs be. Taking a large blob of them with a
choppy character is not at all bad either, and as their leader has the Champion
of Chaos rule, he can jump on the grenade and make or accept a challenge to
allow your support characters to do their thing.
killed, right? They can’t stay off the board all game, and they’re easy targets
once they are so what do you do? In order to mitigate this weakness you need to
focus on presenting your opponent with so many, and such deadly threats that
they MUST focus on them or be destroyed. You are dictating his target priority
choices. That is the value of Cultists, they free up the rest of your points
for pure offense.
Nurgle Oblits, Nurgle Spawn, Daemon Princes, Raptors, Bikers, Lords and
Maulerfiends are all good at chopping or shooting things into bits. If you are
coming down on your opponent with the fury of the Warp, your Cultists should be
free to do their thing relatively unmolested.
allies. Daemons and CSMs go together like PB&J, and really complement each
other well. Plague Bearers are absolutely great scoring units. For 75pts, you
get 5, Fearless, 5++, FnP scoring beasties that can be dropped anywhere on the
table. That is a great tool. 1-2 units of these, and 2-4 units of Cultists and
you have an excellent base of scoring units to build an army around for a very
low points investment. Plus, the addition of Daemon units who are still
premiere assaulters, combined with the firepower of CSMs and their Choppy
Characters equates to a very good all around army. Plop Blood Thirster or a
Great Unclean One in the enemy backfield along with a unit of Flamers or
Fiends, etc. and you create a really potent combination of units and axis of
attack that will often overwhelm many opponents.
of you to make good choices when building your next Chaos tournament list! I
think this book will be tons of fun to play.
and am building it to resemble Talos and Co. from the Night Lords books, which
are excellent if you ever want to read them. My World Eaters I am stubbornly
trying to make work, but it’s slow going!