Community Feedback Wanted

Hey everyone, we’re working on the new BAO format and we wanted some feedback from any of you out there willing to playtest it.

Here’s how it works.

You play 2 book missions at a time, the pairs are: Emperors Will and Crusade (3 objectives), Scouring and Purge the Alien, and Big Guns Never Tire (4 Objectives) with the Relic. In each mission, one victory condition is worth 4pts, the other 3. In the BAO, You play each mission combination twice, once with one of the missions as 4, the other 3, so when you playtest it, you can choose which is worth more points, or dice it.

We use all 3 book deployments, you can roll for it randomly.

We also use all there book bonus points. So, in each.mission there are 10 possible points. The player with more points, wins. Same points is a tie.

We use mysterious objectives, but not terrain.

Psychic powers and fortifications as normal. Warlord traits either per ths specific codex or roll one and choose any power with that number in the brb.

Everything else is right out of the book! Let us know if you find any loopholes, etc. and give us feedback on the mission combinations, etc.

Thanks for your help, looking forward to another great BAO!

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About Reecius

The fearless leader of the intrepid group of gamers gone retailers at Frontline Gaming!

38 Responses to “Community Feedback Wanted”

  1. NoahD October 11, 2012 2:37 am #

    I’m not too sure on Big Guns Never Tire with The Relic mission considering that The Relic can be picked up by any “model” in a scoring unit. I can see interpretation of this as literally being any model such as a Land Raider being able to scoop it up. I don’t really like the idea of Mysterious Objectives either as they would add too much of a random factor to a GT. Just my 2 cents.

    • Reecius
      Reecius October 11, 2012 11:26 am #

      Good input! Let me clarify, Heavy Support units would only count as scoring for the Big Guns Never Tire objectives, not the Relic. Does that help?

  2. Egge October 11, 2012 2:37 am #

    Stupid question: How does the short-edge.set-up works in a tournament setting? I’m thinking that the organizers must allow players the room to move to different long edges or they will experience players killing themselves.

    • kevinmcd38 October 11, 2012 7:27 am #

      Actually every tournament, including the Battle For Salvation GT, that I have played in has used it and it works fine normally

      Also the Land Raider cannot pick it up since it is not a scoring or denial model, no vehicle can be. now thats a stupid qyestion.

      They used random objectives at the BFS and no one minded it. It was attended by the entire nova crew as well as almost every major east coast player…another silly over reaction

      • Reecius
        Reecius October 11, 2012 2:05 pm #

        We’ve found the same things to be true. A lot of the stuff we worried about was no big deal.

        • Egge October 12, 2012 2:39 am #

          Then the only feedback I could give is that you note that if there are more than X number of tables together you suggest…I don’t know, quarter set-up instead?

          I think, that 2 book objectives are much better than the previous three you used.

          • Reecius
            Reecius October 12, 2012 11:57 am
            #

            X Number of tables I suggested? I’m sorry, I don’t follow. What were you referring to?

          • Reecius
            Reecius October 12, 2012 11:58 am
            #

            Ah, you mean, tables next to each other. Got it, but yeah, we use two tables next to each other, and if we do have more than that, then yes, Table Quarters is a good alternative.

    • Reecius
      Reecius October 11, 2012 11:27 am #

      I thought the same thing, but we’ve been playing it in tournaments and it has worked fine, actually.

  3. Douglas of Wolfbrothers October 11, 2012 5:31 am #

    We will check this out in Reno ASAP. Very nice.

    • Reecius
      Reecius October 11, 2012 11:22 am #

      Thanks, guys! We would really appreciate any feedback.

  4. Andrew D October 11, 2012 9:16 am #

    Is terrain narrative or 2′ by 2′ table density?

    • Reecius
      Reecius October 11, 2012 11:20 am #

      Set terrain, book terrain rules take too long in a tournament setting.

  5. SaltyJohn
    Overwatch October 11, 2012 9:56 am #

    Honestly I think straight book missions will work best in 6th. That being said…

    I do like this better than the updated 5th ed BAO mission you’ve been using. The playing of 2 missions instead of 3 simultaneously is much better. I absolutely 100% disagree with the use of the Relic as one of the missions. To be honest if you did use the Relic as one of the missions that could influence my decision to attend. It is a fun mission to play, in a fun relaxed setting. Playing it in a competitive setting hasn’t proven to be anything more than an absolute nightmare.

    The only parts of 6th I found to be not inline with the competitive culture are the Relic, and Mysterious terrain. Mysterious objectives are an important part of the game since they add potential skyfire, and Warlord Traits are important since each book looks to be getting their own Warlord table from here on out.

    Just my opinion, hope to see you there again to make it 3 out of 3 BAOs for me.

    • Reecius
      Reecius October 11, 2012 2:10 pm #

      We hate the relic too, but we’ve been trying it as one of the missions in a multiple objective format, and honestly, it is no big deal. Try it, I think you will find that when combined with Big Guns, it isn’t as big of a deal.

      We also want to stick as close to the book missions as possible, and the Relic is one of them.

      Every other point, I totally agree with.

      Hope to see you there, too!

  6. NoahD October 11, 2012 10:25 am #

    @ Egge I know in DuelCon it was played as is which was pretty rough if you had a middle table as you had to walk all the way around to get to your opponent’s side. Luckily we had an empty table inbetween each game but had it been packed it would’ve been a terrible experience.

    • Reecius
      Reecius October 11, 2012 2:11 pm #

      At the BAO, we only have two table touching so there is space between every set of tables. Shouldn’t be an issue.

  7. winterman October 11, 2012 12:09 pm #

    I have found the scouring to be one of the most imbalanced missions for tourny play. Relic isn’t so bad imo.

    Issue with scouring is: I get 4,3,3 near me. You get 2,2,1 near you. Good luck considering obj can be placed 6″ from table edge. Not sure Purge the alien paring with this does much to help that (think if you get 2,2,1 and are at a big KP disadvantage to boot — ouch).

    There’s a similar issue with odd number of objective placements. Unlike 5ed, in 6ed you place knowing your zone and get 6″ from table edge to boot. Good luck yanking that from an opponent, especially considering your best bet of getting there (transports) are easy first blood options.

    Don’t get me wrong, I actually like the 6ed missions. Its just deciding whether you can or should alter them to make for more evaluative events or to let a narrative be forged and balance be damned.

    All that said I like this setup much more then the previous 6ed BAO missions. Once I am out of TO mode I will test em out.

    • Reecius
      Reecius October 11, 2012 2:42 pm #

      Thanks for your input.

      With the scouring, again, it isn’t by itself, it is played in conjunction with Purge the Alien. I agree that it is weak when you get all the good ones on one side, so we may have preset objective with the scouring and make them all worth a set amount of points to ensure it’s fair. That is a good idea.

      If you have a chance to try them out, please let us know. Thanks!

      • SaltyJohn
        Overwatch October 12, 2012 8:44 am #

        Something I think may help with the Scouring issue:

        Each player places 3 objectives. Worth 1, 2, and 3 points they do not know which marker is worth which amount and only 2 may be placed in their deployment zone. I think that fixes it pretty easily.

        • Reecius
          Reecius October 12, 2012 11:13 am #

          I was thinking the same thing. No 4 pt objective, but both players get a 1,2 and 3 and then deploy them without knowing which is which in your own deployment zone. Makes it much more fair.

  8. Alex Yuen October 11, 2012 1:07 pm #

    Below is a more detail explanation on my point but this is a very simple and direct example. If the victory condition was VICTORY POINT ONLY in every mission. Everyone will build and play differently with everything else stay the same. on to the more detail one.

    I am going to use NOVA,WargamerCon Vs 5th ed Book mission and 3 Elder Jetbike for my point on why 2 missions is a bad or different idea. Why use 5th ed because is easier to understand but the basis of my point stay the same.

    JB in book mission: 2/3 of the time u want them to stand on top of an objective and 1/3 of the time not to die. JB can do other stuff but that the most basic job. So in other words, 2/3 of the time u don’t care if one or two units die and 1/3 of the time u want them to hide in the very back of the table. Lets just say i go first then on 5th turn i have NO PROBLEM flying JB to an obj. if the game end and they live, i win. if the game end and they die, i TIE. and if the game goes on, i just do that again and again if the game goes to 7th turn.

    JB In NOVA Mission: Since they use kp, table Q and objective for every game, that change their role a bit. u DO care about dying. A tie in primary mean he/she can will on KP as a 2nd or 3rd. SO on 5th turn U do have A PROBLEM flying JB to an objective. if the game end and they live, i win. if the game end and they die, i LOSE.

    JB in WargamerCon Mission: Since they use 3 missions,all even weighted, 1 is obj, 1 KP and 1 killing something. I have a choice either i don’t do anything with the JB so they don’t give KP away but at the same time not earn my obj or i risk them on obj but give kp away. SO on 5th turn U do have A PROBLEM flying JB to an objective. if the game end and they live, i win 10 points (10-0). if the game end and they die, i LOSE 10 point and 10 on not able to earn 10 point (0-10). That a 20 point swing. And the worst part JB is useless on the 3rd mission killing something so the result is either (0-0) or (0-10).

    for 66 points JB is a great unit in book mission since they put me in a NO LOSE position. in NOVA, I am taking a risk of losing but the odd of winning stay the same. in wargamercon, why do i even bother to take them when they start off by losing one of victory condition.

    Is not about balance of the game but you changing the way i build my army and the way i play the game by changing the victory condition. So instead checkmate on king now u have to checkmate on queen. you change the chess game.

    • Reecius
      Reecius October 11, 2012 3:05 pm #

      I think you misunderstood what we meant by Victory Points. We don’t mean 4th ed VP’s, but points earned for the 2 missions and the bonus points. We don’t actually add up VPs for units themselves.

      Was I on the mark or was I not understanding your point?

  9. Doc October 11, 2012 2:22 pm #

    We’ll be testing these missions out as soon as possible.

    BUT, the real issue is how much terrain will be on the BAO tables. All of us can test the missions till the cows come home but if our club uses Heavier/Lighter terrain then you plan to use at the BAO the results will be off.

    We try to run club events with about 12 major pieces of terrain pre set. This gives us the average amount of terrain you would get from the rule book (6-18 pieces) if you used it.

    What can we expect at the BAO?

    Thanks
    Doc

    • Reecius
      Reecius October 11, 2012 3:07 pm #

      Hey Doc, thanks for the feedback and yes, please let us know your experiences with the missions.

      For terrain, we strive for a lot of coverage. Our standard layout is 2-3 pieces of terrain per 2×2′ area. We always aim to have at least 1, large piece of LoS blocking terrain on every board.

      It should be a solid amount of coverage. We’ll post a picture of an average table, soon.

  10. Andrew D October 11, 2012 7:49 pm #

    With 2 missions at a time we could play different combinations of missions in every single one of 7 rounds without ever having crusade, big guns never tire, and the scouring in the same mission. Those 3 can’t be mixed because they have 3-6 objectives each so only one of them can be played at a time, but it leaves 9 combinations.

    Crusade + Emperor’s will
    Crusade +Purge
    Crusade +Relic
    Scouring + Emperor’s will
    Scouring +Purge
    Scouring +Relic
    Big guns + Emperor’s will
    Big guns +Purge
    Big guns +Relic

    I think it would be more fun to do 7 different combinations over 7 games rather than 3 combinations over 7 games. It would also minimize the use of any 1 specific combination to a single game.

    • Reecius
      Reecius October 11, 2012 8:14 pm #

      We thought about that too, and we can do it to a certain extent, but the scouring requires 6 objectives, and combining that with another objective style mission results in 7+ objectives which not only gets really crazy in terms of scoring units required, but also in terms of flooding the field with objectives.

      • SaltyJohn
        Overwatch October 12, 2012 8:49 am #

        I would also be leery of having Big Guns in 3 of the rounds. There are a few too many armies that can take super tough heavy choices. This could create a completely unbalanced “meta” shift for the BAO. Trying to mix the missions as best a possible will keep anyone from being able to take advantage of a huge “meta” shift in list design and encourage more balanced lists. This newer style mission really encourages more balanced lists in 6th than the older 5.5 style mission imo.

        • Reecius
          Reecius October 12, 2012 11:07 am #

          Only 2 missions have Big Guns, not 3. Each mission combination is played twice, once with one of the missions as primary, once with the other as primary.

          • SaltyJohn
            Overwatch October 12, 2012 11:29 am
            #

            Ah, I see my mistake. Good to hear.

          • Reecius
            Reecius October 12, 2012 12:00 pm
            #

            No worries, we all goof. We ant to keep the ratio of missions and the mission types as close as possible to the book. We didn’t like them at first, but after playing them a lot, we’re quite comfortable with them now. The Relic on it’s own is a joke, but when played with other missions to offset the impact it has, we find it is actually good fun.

      • Andrew D October 14, 2012 9:53 pm #

        The scouring is a pretty crazy mission. I think you’re right that it combines best with purge. I don’t think it would be too bad with the Relic, it isn’t any more objectives than 5 from big guns + 2 from emperor’s will. Also with the scouring and the relic the lower value objectives really are not that valuable, and it’s not like anybody is going to have enough scoring units alive by turn 5 to worry about them. Scouring + 2 from emperor’s will would suck though because 7 is already a bit excessive.

        • Reecius
          Reecius October 15, 2012 11:49 am #

          We only pair the following missions:

          Crusade (always 3 objectives) and Emperor’s Will
          The Scouring and Purge the Alien
          Big Guns Never Tire (Always 4 Objectives) and the Relic

          For the reasons you mentioned, we don’t pair some of the others as 6 Objectives is a lot, it really pushes you towards certain types of builds.

  11. Living Still October 12, 2012 1:41 pm #

    I know there was quite a bit of talk about scaling down to 1500. Are you guys planning to keep it at 1750? I hope so! Mo toyz = mo betta ;-).

    • Reecius
      Reecius October 12, 2012 2:20 pm #

      Haha, yes, we are sticking with 1750. It seems to fit perfectly in the 2hr 15min time limit.

  12. Andrew D October 14, 2012 10:00 pm #

    Little confused about the how the 10 points per mission works. Is winning 1 of the 2 missions worth 10 points and 2 of 2 worth 20 points? Also do secondary objectives count towards winning both missions?

    • Reecius
      Reecius October 15, 2012 11:51 am #

      Here’s the format:

      Primary Victory Condition: 4pts
      Secondary Victory Condition: 3pts
      Bonus Points: 1pt each

      10 Total points can be earned in each round.

  13. Douglas October 25, 2012 8:40 pm #

    We have gotten a few handfuls of games in here in Reno under this format and love it.

    Whatever you do make sure the Relic and Scouring missions are not on the same deployment each time.

    This is the right direction vs heavily modified scenarios, for the time being anyways.

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